Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M

[blicka]

Knicks and clippers can sign both. And playing with porzingis in new york city>>>>>> playing with lauri markannen in chicago

The Knicks are presently 30 million away from having room for both. They'd need to make pretty serious moves in order to get 2 max slots open and would need to basically strip down to Porzingis + 20-23m (depending how many minimum roster holds) to fit 2 max guys.

Meantime, the Bulls will have Dunn + Lauri + WCJ + Valentine + Hutchison + 2019 pick. That's a much stronger group.

And several reporters say kyrie wants to play in new york this has been a rumor for 5 years.

Could be. Kyrie might choose NY over anything due to his own world view. He forced his way off a championship team, so anything is possible with him.

clippers will have sga and robinson,avery bradley and jerry west's brain making decisions in l.a.

That's objectively a vastly worse core than what the Bulls have as you would project Lauri and WCJ to be better than everyone you mentioned and also fit positions and abilities that would vastly better complement Kyrie+Jimmy as well as the Clippers also being in the West not the East.

Lance thomas contract partial guaranteed,stretch noah and trade courtney lee and that will open up about 24-25 mil in cap space on top of the 40 mil they'll already have with the cap projected to go upto 108

The Nets are another team that will have 2 max slots. Just giving examples of other teams that can sign kyrie and jimmy.

I personally don't want kyrie or jimmy butler both have injury issues and I'm patient enough to let the bulls accumulate assets and genuinely rebuild.

[weneeda2guard]

18 mill per for zach lavine is not a tragic contract smh do we exist in the league we have now or we want to act like value of contracts are not what they are and somehow a guy of lavine cache should be paid mle numbers? personally i think that deal is perfect, keeps us flexible and if lavine blossoms to his full potential, we got him locked in for a steal, and if he doesnt, its not like it killed our cap where we cant add players and has us over the cap and as repeater tax payers. if the plan is anthony davis, that deal doesnt take us out of that, at worst that kind of deal would spell nwaba has to go, and possibly portis, which maybe they should as portis shouldnt get the bank broken for him as a back up power forward, and nwaba is not a starting caliber guard or forward.

[aguifs]

Pull the trigger Garpax! Looking forward for my 2k19 roster with Lavine!

[dougthonus]

People keep talking about all this cap room and hurting the teams future if we spend it now.
Have you not watched the same FA over the past few years? Players are not flocking to teams with a bunch of cap space. They are getting traded to places already established or they are flocking to teams with talented cores in place that they can grow with.

The two best players on the planet that have become FAs have moved to teams via cap room no trades. Trades are also viable, but having cap room makes for trades too.

Also, again, I will point out for the umpteenth time, that keeping the cap room doesn't cost you LaVine this year and only costs you him next year if you get the 2 stars. If you don't get the stars, then you reup LaVine anyway if you want him, sign Portis if you want him, and do whatever else you think is best.

You literally can have your cake and eat it too.

[blicka]

LaVine is an athletic 23-year-old who willingly embraced being the face of the rebuild in the initial aftermath of Jimmy Butler’s trade to the Timberwolves. He’s enthusiastic about getting better, receptive to coaching and a team-first player who wants to address weaknesses in his game to win.

Another nugget from kc's article. This is why I never understood why bulls "fans" have such disdain for lavine.

[League Circles]

LaVine is an athletic 23-year-old who willingly embraced being the face of the rebuild in the initial aftermath of Jimmy Butler’s trade to the Timberwolves. He’s enthusiastic about getting better, receptive to coaching and a team-first player who wants to address weaknesses in his game to win.

Another nugget from kc's article. This is why I never understood why bulls "fans" have such disdain for lavine.

It's cause despite the enthusiasm, he played extremely selfishly for us and just plays Dumb and poorly on the court in general over 4 years.

[IrishBeatdown]

This is so depressing
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-bulls-zach-lavine-free-agency-20180706-story.html

They know this, which is why they’ve proactively negotiated with LaVine in good faith with a strong, multiyear offer that could be in the $18 million range annually.

This could be a tragic contract for the Bulls. I'd rather not have Lavine at all, than for $18 million a year.

The logic about how the Bulls should get this over with sooner, for the sake of their reputation is so freaking dumb. Yeah, I am glad we locked Felicio down instantly last off-season so we could send a message to people.

Bulls have all the negotiating power with little interest in Lavine so far, they should beat him up in contract discussions and if he wants more than 14-15, he's got to go. I'm a fan of paying him no more than 10 AAV, but I'm a bit more bearish in my outlook than most.

[madvillian]

LaVine is an athletic 23-year-old who willingly embraced being the face of the rebuild in the initial aftermath of Jimmy Butler’s trade to the Timberwolves. He’s enthusiastic about getting better, receptive to coaching and a team-first player who wants to address weaknesses in his game to win.

Another nugget from kc's article. This is why I never understood why bulls "fans" have such disdain for lavine.

Because he sucked. I'm sure he's a swell guy and all but that is just fluff. If you're an NBA player, odds are you're receptive to coaching, work hard, and enjoy playing with your team.

[dougthonus]

18 mill per for zach lavine is not a tragic contract smh do we exist in the league we have now or we want to act like value of contracts are not what they are and somehow a guy of lavine cache should be paid mle numbers? personally i think that deal is perfect, keeps us flexible and if lavine blossoms to his full potential, we got him locked in for a steal, and if he doesnt, its not like it killed our cap where we cant add players and has us over the cap and as repeater tax payers. if the plan is anthony davis, that deal doesnt take us out of that, at worst that kind of deal would spell nwaba has to go, and possibly portis, which maybe they should as portis shouldnt get the bank broken for him as a back up power forward, and nwaba is not a starting caliber guard or forward.

The upside of 4 years starting at 18m is that you get LaVine at a 7m discount.

The downside is that you miss out on the chance to bid on two superstars next year in FA, that if you are successful, will make you favorites to be in the NBA finals for the next 3-4 years.

The upside of giving him a 1+1 is you get the chance to bid on those superstars and take a chance on greatness and if LaVine isn't a great player next year you are also not locked into any bad money.

The downside is that in the event LaVine is amazing, you only get to keep him for one more year at a discount, and then have to pay him fair market value after that.

When I compare these upsides and downsides, the upside of the long term deal for LaVine at this money range is really low.

[madvillian]

This is so depressing
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-bulls-zach-lavine-free-agency-20180706-story.html

They know this, which is why they’ve proactively negotiated with LaVine in good faith with a strong, multiyear offer that could be in the $18 million range annually.

This could be a tragic contract for the Bulls. I'd rather not have Lavine at all, than for $18 million a year.

The logic about how the Bulls should get this over with sooner, for the sake of their reputation is so freaking dumb. Yeah, I am glad we locked Felicio down instantly last off-season so we could send a message to people.

Bulls have all the negotiating power with little interest in Lavine so far, they should beat him up in contract discussions and if he wants more than 14-15, he's got to go. I'm a fan of paying him no more than 10 AAV, but I'm a bit more bearish in my outlook than most.

I literally doesn't matter one bit what "zach wants". What matters if what he's offered. If no club offers him a deal, what's he going to do? And Chicago can't "beat him up" when there's nothing to beat up. If the choice is "out of the NBA" or "back in Chicago on a qualifying offer" then he's coming back to Chicago.

[dougthonus]

LaVine is an athletic 23-year-old who willingly embraced being the face of the rebuild in the initial aftermath of Jimmy Butler’s trade to the Timberwolves. He’s enthusiastic about getting better, receptive to coaching and a team-first player who wants to address weaknesses in his game to win.

Another nugget from kc's article. This is why I never understood why bulls "fans" have such disdain for lavine.

If the bolded part is true, there is no evidence for fans to have reason to think it. He played about the most selfish basketball I have ever seen while here, Lauri Markkanen looked like crap with LaVine on the court and looked like a star when he was gone because of the awful brand of hero-ball that LaVine played.

This may not be LaVine's fault, he may have been directed to do this or given the green light, but there's no reason a fan would think LaVine is working hard on his weaknesses. We know he's not working at the Advocate center this off-season and is instead of training in the same way he always had (which doesn't speak to him fixing these flaws).

[Truebiscuit]

Sam Smith:

Sorry, I'd rather have LaVine. Again, I get these requests fairly frequently to not resign LaVine, which is strange to me. OK, he's hasn't defended much in Minnesota, either. But here's an excellent athlete who is a very good three-point shooter, solid citizen, anxious to improve, a young 6-5 guard. Yes, he had ACL surgery and we hate that phrase, and he didn't finish last season, though who really knows with the artificial competition after the All-Star break. I find it hard to believe given his health situation LaVine gets any sort of break-the-bank offer as a restricted free agent. Teams are no longer allowed to say they'll match to scare off competitors or restricted free agents. If LaVine were in this draft, he'd have been a top 10 player. He's 23 years old and ready to have a full season again after missing much of the last two. He's a top athlete for a team long searching for more athletes and the biggest name in the Jimmy Butler trade. I cannot personally see a circumstance in which I would not want to work out a contract with LaVine. I think he's going to be a terrific player again.

I agree 110%.

Who in the Top Ten of this year's draft was coming off and ACL?

Who in the Top Ten of this year's draft has a rookie contract of more than $9MM per (a figure that "sign-Zac"h proponents view as insulting or stingy)?

Mikal Bridges at 22 was the only person Zach's age (I'll give him a mulligan on the year and still make the point) was the only player picked in the Top Ten and he was 10th. His contract is basically 5 years/$25MM or $5MM per.

Bad example.

I don't agree.

I am shocked!

[ChicagoStrong]

Pull the trigger Garpax! Looking forward for my 2k19 roster with Lavine!

I hope they don't make roster moves with 2K in mind.

[blicka]

LaVine is an athletic 23-year-old who willingly embraced being the face of the rebuild in the initial aftermath of Jimmy Butler’s trade to the Timberwolves. He’s enthusiastic about getting better, receptive to coaching and a team-first player who wants to address weaknesses in his game to win.

Another nugget from kc's article. This is why I never understood why bulls "fans" have such disdain for lavine.

It's cause despite the enthusiasm, he played extremely selfishly for us and just plays Dumb and poorly on the court in general over 4 years.

How many timberwolves games did you watch from 2014-2017? and he played "dumb and poorly" on the court and still led the bulls to multiple wins and damn near half his games were 20+ scoring games.

Lavine has a skill set no one else on this team has

[blicka]

LaVine is an athletic 23-year-old who willingly embraced being the face of the rebuild in the initial aftermath of Jimmy Butler’s trade to the Timberwolves. He’s enthusiastic about getting better, receptive to coaching and a team-first player who wants to address weaknesses in his game to win.

Another nugget from kc's article. This is why I never understood why bulls "fans" have such disdain for lavine.

If the bolded part is true, there is no evidence for fans to have reason to think it. He played about the most selfish basketball I have ever seen while here, Lauri Markkanen looked like crap with LaVine on the court and looked like a star when he was gone because of the awful brand of hero-ball that LaVine played.

This may not be LaVine's fault, he may have been directed to do this or given the green light, but there's no reason a fan would think LaVine is working hard on his weaknesses. We know he's not working at the Advocate center this off-season and is instead of training in the same way he always had (which doesn't speak to him fixing these flaws).

Lavine doesn't need to workout at the advocate center the bulls don't own him, his father paid for 10k in training equipment he's been training since april, go look at his instagram. Probably when the contract gets signed he'll workout at the advocate center/with the bulls. They already mentioned group workouts in l.a.and chicago

Again... judging a player in a contract year in 24 games is foolish.

Who cares what lauri looked like with lavine? Lauri played like trash when dunn got the concussion he was garbage and shot 30% from 3's & 41% from the field he was missing wide open shots he only played better when the offense was ran through him at the end of the year. It's not all about lauri especially in a tank year , he's not larry bird he averaged 15 and 7 on a garbage team.

and fixing his flaws ,may require watching film and working on the mental aspect of the game. You have no idea what he's doing

[nomorezorro]

serious question: can anyone give me a positive point of reference for the proposition of re-signing lavine for well above his performance level because of Potential? are there any dudes who had metrics that suggested they were solidly a net negative player who ended up deserving even more than the massive payday they got?

the closest thing i can think of is the oladipo deal, but oladipo was a better player than lavine before re-signing and also took a massive leap predicated on body improvements that nobody saw coming

[bad knees]

LaVine is an athletic 23-year-old who willingly embraced being the face of the rebuild in the initial aftermath of Jimmy Butler’s trade to the Timberwolves. He’s enthusiastic about getting better, receptive to coaching and a team-first player who wants to address weaknesses in his game to win.

Another nugget from kc's article. This is why I never understood why bulls "fans" have such disdain for lavine.

It's cause despite the enthusiasm, he played extremely selfishly for us and just plays Dumb and poorly on the court in general over 4 years.

I guess he just had poor coaching for the first four years of his career. They weren’t talking to him about the importance of passing and team defense.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[madvillian]

serious question: can anyone give me a positive point of reference for the proposition of re-signing lavine for well above his performance level because of Potential? are there any dudes who had metrics that suggested they were solidly a net negative player who ended up deserving even more than the massive payday they got?

the closest thing i can think of is the oladipo deal, but oladipo was a better player than lavine before re-signing and also took a massive leap predicated on body improvements that nobody saw coming

I don't think there is precedent. Which is why nobody rushed to make him an offer today.

[Onibuh]

Maybe they wanted to see him as 1st option and coaching/management gave him every freedom.

I think they should take the risk. Cap space is nice but if you can't sign star players with it it's useless.

Pull the trigger and see what happens. 3+1 Team option. Show some faith and let them develop together. I don't see Jimmy ever coming back, it's a pipedream to think about him and Kyrie.

[IrishBeatdown]

This is so depressing
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-bulls-zach-lavine-free-agency-20180706-story.html



This could be a tragic contract for the Bulls. I'd rather not have Lavine at all, than for $18 million a year.

The logic about how the Bulls should get this over with sooner, for the sake of their reputation is so freaking dumb. Yeah, I am glad we locked Felicio down instantly last off-season so we could send a message to people.

Bulls have all the negotiating power with little interest in Lavine so far, they should beat him up in contract discussions and if he wants more than 14-15, he's got to go. I'm a fan of paying him no more than 10 AAV, but I'm a bit more bearish in my outlook than most.

I literally doesn't matter one bit what "zach wants". What matters if what he's offered. If no club offers him a deal, what's he going to do? And Chicago can't "beat him up" when there's nothing to beat up. If the choice is "out of the NBA" or "back in Chicago on a qualifying offer" then he's coming back to Chicago.

Well, he and his agent have a number in mind, I'm sure. Of course he is going to take the QO if no one offers him a contract, that's not in dispute. 'Beating him up' is a euphemism for aggressive counter-negotiation in this case, should have been more clear. I'm talking about his hypothetical future contract.

Thanks for explaining how RFA works though, that was informative.