NBA Trade Thread #11

[patryk7754]

If White finishes the season strong, I think we should 100% take advantage of his play and package him for a true all-star level player. Now that we know giddey will be the PG of the future, I think there are two main targets we should pursue. Zion and Sabonis. Zion has been discussed to exhaustion. My main point about him is that he's an elite talent with lower than usual trade value because of his availability issues (which I personally think will mostly magically go away when he finally leaves N.O). As for Sabonis, I think his offensive versatility would excel in Donovan's system. I think he might be getable because, if I recall correctly, he had some disgruntled comments after Fox got traded. Something to the extent of his career being wasted. I think one of the better things about trading for either of these guys is that their contracts are compared to other stars, meaning we could still sign a high level player. Best case scenario would be off-loading Patrick Williams in the deal as well. A likely trade would look something like this:

White, Williams, Ayo, and picks (likely the POR pick, future first and maybe this year's first depending on where it is) to Pels or Kings
Vuc to a third team (most likely a contender) and the third team sends minimal assets to Pels or Kings
Bulls receive either Zion or Sabonis

I think anyone is tradable other than Matas and Giddey, so if someone like Lonzo, Huerter or Smith is also included, that would not be surprising.

If we manage to complete a trade for one of those guys, I'd like to sign Naz Reid (I'd like to sign Reid in almost any situation). He can play at a high level next to either of those guys. And if we can afford it, I would like to sign Walker-Alexander to be our SG. Resign Tre Jones and Collins.

Giddey/Lonzo/Jones
NAW/Huerter/Lonzo
Matas/Huerter/Philips
Zion/Smith/Matas
Reid/Collins

or

Giddey/Lonzo/Jones
NAW/Huerter/Lonzo
Matas/Huerter/Philips
Reid/Smith/Matas
Sabonis/Collins

I gave my thoughts on Zion (willing to do if we don't need to include our core 3 guys). I'd consider Reid too, but I think Minny won't do us any favors with a S&T if they want to keep him (which I think they do, but you never know, maybe they think offers will come in above where they'd match). On Sabonis, his flaws (no rim protection and bad defender, and not really a 3pt shooter - despite his 42% 3pt% he only shoots 2 a game) remind me too much of Vuc to think that his experiment would work. When you have a passer like Giddey, you really want a C who he can find for dunks, and with a defender like Coby, you really want a rim protector.

I'm assuming you consider Coby a core guy? I don't really, myself. I think he's too inconsistent and if he has great value, our best bet is to take advantage of it. I only see Matas and Giddey as core guys.

As far as acquiring Reid, I think we'd be able to sign him out right if we are able to unload enough cap via trades (which I think is very possible.) and if not, I don't see why minny wouldn't do a sign and trade with us. Maybe they don't have any interest in any of the players we'd send but I think that would be the only obstacle in a sign and trade. I agree with the defensive concerns that would come with sabonis but if we pair him with Reid, that would solve most of the concerns .

I think there are a lot of "ifs" in these scenarios, but I think they are mostly doable.

[WesPeace]

Going after Sabonis, just after finally get rid of Vucevic, would be extremely dumb..

[WesPeace]

This ancient history what IFs are soo pointless.. what IF Lonzo would never get injured etc.. meaningless and pointless, it is what it is, lets move on!

This comment was soooo pointless. Condescending and useless, provided no information. Could have just skipped past the post, but had to insert some negativity. The way to move on is post something related to the Bull, then people will respond. Just because you don't want to talk about something doesn't mean no one else does. This is not your personal forum. Being rude and insulting while preaching forum etiquette is just hypocritical.

Look bro, I like your posts, you write some solid stuff, but yeah going deep into history what IF this and that, I dont see any point for it! Didnt mean to be condescending at all and I dont know where I was insulting?!

[Muzbar]

Going after Sabonis, just after finally get rid of Vucevic, would be extremely dumb..

So you're saying AK would totally do it?

[patryk7754]

I also disagree with the idea that Sabonis and Vuc are the same player. Sabonis is much more of a fluid athlete and very often does a lot of point center stuff. On top of that, he's a high usage but still extremely efficient player. And he's shown the ability to be a consistent number one option, something Vuc hasn't shown in years. Sabonis has been ridiculously efficient, specifically in the past three years.

Defensively there are problems, but if you properly structure the team around him, then he'd be a great addition. And far from extremely dumb....unlike some opinions here

[sco]

If White finishes the season strong, I think we should 100% take advantage of his play and package him for a true all-star level player. Now that we know giddey will be the PG of the future, I think there are two main targets we should pursue. Zion and Sabonis. Zion has been discussed to exhaustion. My main point about him is that he's an elite talent with lower than usual trade value because of his availability issues (which I personally think will mostly magically go away when he finally leaves N.O). As for Sabonis, I think his offensive versatility would excel in Donovan's system. I think he might be getable because, if I recall correctly, he had some disgruntled comments after Fox got traded. Something to the extent of his career being wasted. I think one of the better things about trading for either of these guys is that their contracts are compared to other stars, meaning we could still sign a high level player. Best case scenario would be off-loading Patrick Williams in the deal as well. A likely trade would look something like this:

White, Williams, Ayo, and picks (likely the POR pick, future first and maybe this year's first depending on where it is) to Pels or Kings
Vuc to a third team (most likely a contender) and the third team sends minimal assets to Pels or Kings
Bulls receive either Zion or Sabonis

I think anyone is tradable other than Matas and Giddey, so if someone like Lonzo, Huerter or Smith is also included, that would not be surprising.

If we manage to complete a trade for one of those guys, I'd like to sign Naz Reid (I'd like to sign Reid in almost any situation). He can play at a high level next to either of those guys. And if we can afford it, I would like to sign Walker-Alexander to be our SG. Resign Tre Jones and Collins.

Giddey/Lonzo/Jones
NAW/Huerter/Lonzo
Matas/Huerter/Philips
Zion/Smith/Matas
Reid/Collins

or

Giddey/Lonzo/Jones
NAW/Huerter/Lonzo
Matas/Huerter/Philips
Reid/Smith/Matas
Sabonis/Collins

I gave my thoughts on Zion (willing to do if we don't need to include our core 3 guys). I'd consider Reid too, but I think Minny won't do us any favors with a S&T if they want to keep him (which I think they do, but you never know, maybe they think offers will come in above where they'd match). On Sabonis, his flaws (no rim protection and bad defender, and not really a 3pt shooter - despite his 42% 3pt% he only shoots 2 a game) remind me too much of Vuc to think that his experiment would work. When you have a passer like Giddey, you really want a C who he can find for dunks, and with a defender like Coby, you really want a rim protector.

I'm assuming you consider Coby a core guy? I don't really, myself. I think he's too inconsistent and if he has great value, our best bet is to take advantage of it. I only see Matas and Giddey as core guys.

As far as acquiring Reid, I think we'd be able to sign him out right if we are able to unload enough cap via trades (which I think is very possible.) and if not, I don't see why minny wouldn't do a sign and trade with us. Maybe they don't have any interest in any of the players we'd send but I think that would be the only obstacle in a sign and trade. I agree with the defensive concerns that would come with sabonis but if we pair him with Reid, that would solve most of the concerns .

I think there are a lot of "ifs" in these scenarios, but I think they are mostly doable.

What trades do you think are feasible that will free-up enough cap space to sign Reid?

[Muzbar]

I also disagree with the idea that Sabonis and Vuc are the same player. Sabonis is much more of a fluid athlete and very often does a lot of point center stuff. On top of that, he's a high usage but still extremely efficient player. And he's shown the ability to be a consistent number one option, something Vuc hasn't shown in years. Sabonis has been ridiculously efficient, specifically in the past three years.

Defensively there are problems, but if you properly structure the team around him, then he'd be a great addition. And far from extremely dumb....unlike some opinions here

Sabonis would be a terrible get, Giddey finally has the ball in his hands and now you're going to add a C who is at his best with the ball in his hands? Terrible.

Naz is a bit undersized, but I like him, but the Bulls won't have the capspace to sign him.

[Infinity2152]

With his contract, what's the actual risk? He's 24. Unless he has some catastrophic injury, his trade value next summer would be the same or higher than it is now. Should we decide he doesn't fit, or decide to move on, he's an extremely valuable trade piece. That's if he's not healthy.

If he's healthy, he's a top 3 non-rookie contract in the league. Either case, we could probably get back equal or more than what we're sending out. This is just in terms of actual value for value. We're no worse off.

Coby White will be an unrestricted free agent if he doesn't sign an extension, which is unlikely. There were talks of trading him before the deadline. He could be gone on draft night. Not getting Zion doesn't mean we keep White.

A great twist would be trading Coby to get Zion, then re-signing Coby in 2026 as a free agent, lol! Let's lighten up. good things can happen too.

[patryk7754]

I gave my thoughts on Zion (willing to do if we don't need to include our core 3 guys). I'd consider Reid too, but I think Minny won't do us any favors with a S&T if they want to keep him (which I think they do, but you never know, maybe they think offers will come in above where they'd match). On Sabonis, his flaws (no rim protection and bad defender, and not really a 3pt shooter - despite his 42% 3pt% he only shoots 2 a game) remind me too much of Vuc to think that his experiment would work. When you have a passer like Giddey, you really want a C who he can find for dunks, and with a defender like Coby, you really want a rim protector.

I'm assuming you consider Coby a core guy? I don't really, myself. I think he's too inconsistent and if he has great value, our best bet is to take advantage of it. I only see Matas and Giddey as core guys.

As far as acquiring Reid, I think we'd be able to sign him out right if we are able to unload enough cap via trades (which I think is very possible.) and if not, I don't see why minny wouldn't do a sign and trade with us. Maybe they don't have any interest in any of the players we'd send but I think that would be the only obstacle in a sign and trade. I agree with the defensive concerns that would come with sabonis but if we pair him with Reid, that would solve most of the concerns .

I think there are a lot of "ifs" in these scenarios, but I think they are mostly doable.

What trades do you think are feasible that will free-up enough cap space to sign Reid?

I think the key part of signing free agents would be doing so after a trade and before resigning our own guys. Not sure how often that really happens, but if that's not the order of operations, then its probably extremely unlikely.

But any additional cap space move would probably be a part of one of those hypothetical trades I mentioned. I don't think throwing in Carter or Smith would be a deal breaker for the participating team(s). That plus off-loading Vuc and Williams in the trade would be significant. We still might have to trade Heurter, but I don't think that would be too difficult.

White, Williams, Vuc, and Ayo contracts being shipped out for 40ish being brought in is already helpful. Plus having Lonzo, Carter, and Smith on pretty friendly deals is also helpful. The main thing could be Huerter. But I could be wrong. I didn't really do the math and don't really feel like.

I can't remember the rules around S&T deals but can the sign and trade team (minny) acquire multiple players? or does it have to be a one for one? Hypothetically , Lonzo, Huerter, and carter could match the amount of money needed to get Reid and I don't see why Minny would be opposed to bringing in any of those guys. Except for carter, but that's just the cost of doing business

[patryk7754]

With his contract, what's the actual risk? He's 24. Unless he has some catastrophic injury, his trade value next summer would be the same or higher than it is now. Should we decide he doesn't fit, or decide to move on, he's an extremely valuable trade piece. That's if he's not healthy.

If he's healthy, he's a top 3 non-rookie contract in the league. Either case, we could probably get back equal or more than what we're sending out. This is just in terms of actual value for value. We're no worse off.

Coby White will be an unrestricted free agent if he doesn't sign an extension, which is unlikely. There were talks of trading him before the deadline. He could be gone on draft night. Not getting Zion doesn't mean we keep White.

I might be wrong, but I think the out may be for this off-season only, which would obviously not be used if we traded for him. But I agree, that overall there isn't that much risk to trading for him. Obviously, the availability is a concern, but if we can acquire him for White (who doesn't compare as a player) and still get off Williams contract, then I think it's well worth the risk. For me, it would come down to how many picks they demand.

[sco]

I'm assuming you consider Coby a core guy? I don't really, myself. I think he's too inconsistent and if he has great value, our best bet is to take advantage of it. I only see Matas and Giddey as core guys.

As far as acquiring Reid, I think we'd be able to sign him out right if we are able to unload enough cap via trades (which I think is very possible.) and if not, I don't see why minny wouldn't do a sign and trade with us. Maybe they don't have any interest in any of the players we'd send but I think that would be the only obstacle in a sign and trade. I agree with the defensive concerns that would come with sabonis but if we pair him with Reid, that would solve most of the concerns .

I think there are a lot of "ifs" in these scenarios, but I think they are mostly doable.

What trades do you think are feasible that will free-up enough cap space to sign Reid?

I think the key part of signing free agents would be doing so after a trade and before resigning our own guys. Not sure how often that really happens, but if that's the order of operations, then its probably extremely unlikely.

But any additional cap space move would probably be a part of one of those hypothetical trades I mentioned. I don't think throwing in Carter or Smith would be a deal breaker for the participating team(s). That plus off-loading Vuc and Williams in the trade would be significant. We still might have to trade Heurter, but I don't think that would be too difficult.

White, Williams, Vuc, and Ayo contracts being shipped out for 40ish being brought in is already helpful. Plus having Lonzo, Carter, and Smith on pretty friendly deals is also helpful. The main thing could be Huerter. But I could be wrong. I didn't really do the math and don't really feel like.

I can't remember the rules around S&T deals but can the sign and trade team (minny) acquire multiple players? or does it have to be a one for one? Hypothetically , Lonzo, Huerter, and carter could match the amount of money needed to get Reid and I don't see why Minny would be opposed to bringing in any of those guys. Except for carter, but that's just the cost of doing business

I mean what are theoretical deals that you think another team would do for guys you mentioned that would free up the necessary cap space, which is probably $25M+?

[patryk7754]

What trades do you think are feasible that will free-up enough cap space to sign Reid?

I think the key part of signing free agents would be doing so after a trade and before resigning our own guys. Not sure how often that really happens, but if that's the order of operations, then its probably extremely unlikely.

But any additional cap space move would probably be a part of one of those hypothetical trades I mentioned. I don't think throwing in Carter or Smith would be a deal breaker for the participating team(s). That plus off-loading Vuc and Williams in the trade would be significant. We still might have to trade Heurter, but I don't think that would be too difficult.

White, Williams, Vuc, and Ayo contracts being shipped out for 40ish being brought in is already helpful. Plus having Lonzo, Carter, and Smith on pretty friendly deals is also helpful. The main thing could be Huerter. But I could be wrong. I didn't really do the math and don't really feel like.

I can't remember the rules around S&T deals but can the sign and trade team (minny) acquire multiple players? or does it have to be a one for one? Hypothetically , Lonzo, Huerter, and carter could match the amount of money needed to get Reid and I don't see why Minny would be opposed to bringing in any of those guys. Except for carter, but that's just the cost of doing business

I mean what are theoretical deals that you think another team would do for guys you mentioned that would free up the necessary cap space, which is probably $25M+?

Not really sure because I would target playoff teams with cap space, who could just absorb contracts. Not really sure who those teams are but I think the Rockets, Pistons and Magic are three teams that could work. I can see any of those teams taking on Lonzo or Huerter (if not both). Both players bring traits that would be beneficial to any playoff team.

I also think the nets have a crazy amount of cap so maybe they take on whatever for a 2nd or two

Could also target playoff teams who don't have as much cap so a thrid team would have to get involved. I think the Mavs would be interested in Lozno while Kyrie recovers. They send someone like Gafford to a thrid team. They could also be interested in Huerter's shooting.

[sco]

I think the key part of signing free agents would be doing so after a trade and before resigning our own guys. Not sure how often that really happens, but if that's the order of operations, then its probably extremely unlikely.

But any additional cap space move would probably be a part of one of those hypothetical trades I mentioned. I don't think throwing in Carter or Smith would be a deal breaker for the participating team(s). That plus off-loading Vuc and Williams in the trade would be significant. We still might have to trade Heurter, but I don't think that would be too difficult.

White, Williams, Vuc, and Ayo contracts being shipped out for 40ish being brought in is already helpful. Plus having Lonzo, Carter, and Smith on pretty friendly deals is also helpful. The main thing could be Huerter. But I could be wrong. I didn't really do the math and don't really feel like.

I can't remember the rules around S&T deals but can the sign and trade team (minny) acquire multiple players? or does it have to be a one for one? Hypothetically , Lonzo, Huerter, and carter could match the amount of money needed to get Reid and I don't see why Minny would be opposed to bringing in any of those guys. Except for carter, but that's just the cost of doing business

I mean what are theoretical deals that you think another team would do for guys you mentioned that would free up the necessary cap space, which is probably $25M+?

Not really sure because I would target playoff teams with cap space, who could just absorb contracts. Not really sure who those teams are but I think the Rockets, Pistons and Magic are three teams that could work. I can see any of those teams taking on Lonzo or Huerter (if not both). Both players bring traits that would be beneficial to any playoff team.

I also think the nets have a crazy amount of cap so maybe they take on whatever for a 2nd or two

Could also target playoff teams who don't have as much cap so a thrid team would have to get involved. I think the Mavs would be interested in Lozno while Kyrie recovers. They send someone like Gafford to a thrid team. They could also be interested in Huerter's shooting.

I could see Huerter and Ball traded for cap space, but that doesn't get us there. There's also the competing use of space that Jones would command. I think BKN wants to go after a big FA (optimistically not Giddey), so a deal for their cap space is unlikely or would cost our 1st. Just don't think we can free up that kind of space.

[sco]

So on the not so crazy scenario that Utah lands Flagg, Lauri would likely become available. It's Ainge, so the price would probably be stupid. There's also the issue that Lauri has looked like Chicago Lauri this year, but maybe he wouldn't cost more than a first and expirings. Is Lauri a better fit for us than Zion? Would he come cheaper? Does anyone really want Lauri back?

[Muzbar]

So on the not so crazy scenario that Utah lands Flagg, Lauri would likely become available. It's Ainge, so the price would probably be stupid. There's also the issue that Lauri has looked like Chicago Lauri this year, but maybe he wouldn't cost more than a first and expirings. Is Lauri a better fit for us than Zion? Would he come cheaper? Does anyone really want Lauri back?

Nope. Lauri is now in that overpriced range, he shouldn't be getting a max.

Also, I see no reason why Utah couldn't play Lauri and Flagg together, Flagg brings the defense Lauri lacks.

And besides, Ainge would want a Kings ransom and like want Matas included, yeah, no thanks.

[Infinity2152]

Lauri's the kind of player that fits almost anywhere. He could slot right in at starting PF or SF, Giddey, White, Matas, Lauri, Smith. He raises our floor, but we would probably get that tier free agent next summer without spending the first. And you know Ainge is going to gouge any team he's trading with. We should probably consider what position and caliber draft player we get when positing these post draft trade ideas, lol. Drafting VJ Edgecome or Dylan Harper puts a whole different look on whether we keep or trade Coby.

[WesPeace]

I also disagree with the idea that Sabonis and Vuc are the same player. Sabonis is much more of a fluid athlete and very often does a lot of point center stuff. On top of that, he's a high usage but still extremely efficient player. And he's shown the ability to be a consistent number one option, something Vuc hasn't shown in years. Sabonis has been ridiculously efficient, specifically in the past three years.

Defensively there are problems, but if you properly structure the team around him, then he'd be a great addition. And far from extremely dumb....unlike some opinions here

They are too similar, the last thing we need is another center with high usage and bad defence.
We finally have some core in sight with Giddey, White, Matas etc and now you want to flip it over again to accomodate younger Vooch?? Naaah..

[ChettheJet]

Saw the headline that Vuc wants to end his career with the Bulls and INSTANTLY knew that it was Joe Cowley. He always rushes to take the opposite side of what's going to happen so he can act like he outsmarted the team. Is Vuc willing to sign for less than #10M and come off the bench because he wants' to stay so badly? Even he can see how differently the team plays without DeRozan and Lavine when Collins and Smith are in the game, is he up for being a supporting cast member?

[NecessaryEvil]

I’ve always liked Vooch but he belongs on a contender, not here in Chicago. Zach Collins and Jalen Smith are much better fits. AK is doing a really good job right now. Two second rounders should get it done in the offseason (for Vooch).

[Infinity2152]

This ancient history what IFs are soo pointless.. what IF Lonzo would never get injured etc.. meaningless and pointless, it is what it is, lets move on!

This comment was soooo pointless. Condescending and useless, provided no information. Could have just skipped past the post, but had to insert some negativity. The way to move on is post something related to the Bull, then people will respond. Just because you don't want to talk about something doesn't mean no one else does. This is not your personal forum. Being rude and insulting while preaching forum etiquette is just hypocritical.

Look bro, I like your posts, you write some solid stuff, but yeah going deep into history what IF this and that, I dont see any point for it! Didnt mean to be condescending at all and I dont know where I was insulting?!

Wasn't going deep. Saw so many people complaining about Billy and his coaching to win, a thought occurred, "What if it was Thibs?". Not "I wish Thibs was here" or anything like that. Calling it pointless, then re-emphasizing it with "meaningless and pointless", I'll never call your posts meaningless and pointless. It meant enough to you to post. When you say somebody's making "meaningless and pointless" comments, sounds condescending to me, like you're the boss or only the things you find meaningful should be discussed. Yes, I consider calling my comments meaningless and pointless kind of insulting. Seems like you were specifically referring to my previous post.

You didn't mean it that way, then it's cool and I retract the statement. Don't know how I bothered anyone by posting that, literally nothing was being posted at the time in that page, thought I'd share a thought. I just get on here to talk basketball with Bulls fans, and thought some guys might have gotten a laugh imagining trying to tell Thibs to tank.

And nothing but respect for Thibs. First example that came to mind of a coach who would do absolutely everything to win, regardless of orders.