OT: Report: Cavaliers make offer to Tom Izzo

[Rerisen]

Jesus Christ Re, how many times do those disagreeing with you have to clarify. No one is arguing that Izzo is what would covince LeBron to stay. Its the converse. That LeBron's staying (along with the sick cash) convinced Izzo to take the job.

If LeBron has already been staying all this time, then WTF has the last few weeks been about?

What is World Wide Wes talking about? I thought they were best buds?

If Lebron was staying all along, why didn't he give this 'signal' to the Cavs long before now? Because it sure as hell appeared that as of yesterday, the Cavs had no clue if LeBron was coming back. Their own owner described contact with LeBron as being very minimal to this point.

And plenty of Cleveland related rumors (insiders and team followers) have expressed dismay that LeBron might actually be leaving. This doesn't jive with everyone knowing that LeBron has been coming back since the beginning.

[waffle]

Agreed

but

I think he goes back

[fleet]

Jesus Christ Re, how many times do those disagreeing with you have to clarify. No one is arguing that Izzo is what would covince LeBron to stay. Its the converse. That LeBron's staying (along with the sick cash) convinced Izzo to take the job.

If LeBron has already been staying all this time, then WTF has the last few weeks been about?

What is World Wide Wes talking about? I thought they were best buds?

If Lebron was staying all along, why didn't he give this 'signal' to the Cavs long before now? Because it sure as hell appeared that as of yesterday, the Cavs had no clue if LeBron was coming back. Their own owner described contact with LeBron as being very minimal to this point.

And plenty of Cleveland related rumors (insiders and team followers) have expressed dismay that LeBron might actually be leaving. This doesn't jive with everyone knowing that LeBron has been coming back since the beginning.

Izzo hasn't accepted the job yet right? We shall see. Its clear Izzo hasn't told his players that. They just ran with some paranoia based on a very good possibility.

[DuckIII]

Jesus Christ Re, how many times do those disagreeing with you have to clarify. No one is arguing that Izzo is what would covince LeBron to stay. Its the converse. That LeBron's staying (along with the sick cash) convinced Izzo to take the job.

If LeBron has already been staying all this time, then WTF has the last few weeks been about?

What is World Wide Wes talking about? I thought they were best buds?

If Lebron was staying all along, why didn't he give this 'signal' to the Cavs long before now? Because it sure as hell appeared that as of yesterday, the Cavs had no clue if LeBron was coming back. Their own owner described contact with LeBron as being very minimal to this point.

And plenty of Cleveland related rumors (insiders and team followers) have expressed dismay that LeBron might actually be leaving. This doesn't jive with everyone knowing that LeBron has been coming back since the beginning.

That's a good argument. And I don't know. Although I'll note that I didn't say that everyone knew what LeBron would do. Merely that LeBron knew what he would do. And perhaps his hidey-hole act was, in part, to spur the Cavs to dance. Like a mute version of Kobe's national media tantrums.

What I do know is this: Izzo's ACT of taking the job (if he does) has a predictive value, to me, that dramatically outweights what Woj reports World Wide Wes may have been generically saying to "everyone".

[Ralphb07]

Izzo is taking so long because he is trying to find out the chances of LBJ being there and if LBJ isn't there, is 6mil per worth leaving. If Izzo had info that all it took was him and LBJ would stay, he would of took the job ASAP. 6mil plus coaching LBJ, doesn't get better than that

If Izzo says yes, phase one of Gilbert's plan is complete. He has a high profile guy in place. Phase two is making moves now until June 30th, making the team better.

I don't think Izzo saying yes guarantees LBJ is staying because Gilbert still needs to improve the roster some. Also even though Izzo can't replace LBJ, having him and what they can get via S&T for LBJ, is better than a semi name coach and nothing.

[BuffaloBull]

People are reading way too much into this whole situation, with not enough info at hand.

Did the Bulls offer Izzo the job? I doubt they got that far, but it wouldn't surprise me if they approached him and took his temperature. He's a Midwestern guy who loves defense.

Skiles with better hair= Paxson making love doodles in the margins of his diary.

But then Gilbert fired his coach and GM, and swooped in on Izzo with a bowl you over deal, money and years wise. Per reports, I think this offer has been on the table for a while, maybe even before the Bulls flew out for Thibs. Maybe Izzo shared the parameters of the offer with Pax, who was like, "Hey, you got 5 years at six per and a private jet? Yeah, we can't match that, enjoy the Cavs." And that was that. The Bulls putting out feelers wouldn't surprise me at all, and I wouldn't read anything into their not buying in.

Gilbert, in my opinion, might be a little on tilt right now. Who knows, he may have given this offer to Izzo with a limited window to accept it. I would if I were him; Lebron or no, getting a sexy coaching name like Izzo is something to sell your fans, and a sign you won't just give up. And of course Izzo would like to wait as long as he can, but he might not get a deal like this again. Five years, and possibly 6+ million a year, for a guy who has never coached in the NBA? That's way above the normal coaching payscale.

[Rerisen]

Let's look at it another way.

Most people think LeBron returning to Cleveland is the most likely scenario. I think that too, just not because of Tom Izzo. I've thought it from the beginning.

Now let's say Tom Izzo sees the exact same thing, that Cavs have the edge, but its not a lock, LeBron actually has not made up his mind.

If you are Tom Izzo and you get an offer to coach the Cavs, doubling your salary for the next 6 years, and also having a strong chance (say 60-70%) of getting to coach LeBron, do you take it?

Would that slim chance of LeBron not coming back, just maybe be the reason for this choice being such a tough one for him?

And isn't it possible that just the strong likelihood of LeBron returning (not the lock of it) is enough to entice to you to accept the job?

Because *someone* is going to coach this Cavs team next year, and that someone may well have to take the job without 100% assurance from LeBron James that he is coming back. No one can force LeBron to make that kind of commitment right now, on June 9th, without him having the chance to see what every team has to sell him. Something that, with his ego, would seem like something he would like to peruse.

And whoever that coach would be, that is willing to take that risk, will win one of the very top jobs in the NBA if LBJ does come back. One of the highest paying and one with one of the greatest chances at success in the league during the next six years. That's a great attraction even without LBJ locking in. And if that low chance worst case does happen, and he bolts, well you can always at least cry yourself to sleep with your 6 million a year. It's hardly the worst consolation prize in the world.

When we have a situation here between two power brokers, Tom Izzo and LeBron James, to me its obvious that LeBron is the bigger power broker. Izzo is the guy that must make the decision hoping to sway LeBron. LeBron is not the guy that commits to hopefully get Tom Izzo.

LeBron James went on national TV and said he has not made up his mind where he is going. He could be lying? But why? Then he could just re-sign with the Cavs immediately and move on, actually re-signing as early as possible would help his team move forward with making the team better.

So let's assume he's not lying that he had not made up his mind. At that point, you cannot say Tom Izzo accepting to coach Cleveland means that LeBron has agreed to stay - unless you believe Tom Izzo *is* indeed the reason for LeBron committing.

[DuckIII]

If you are Tom Izzo and you get an offer to coach the Cavs, doubling your salary for the next 6 years, and also having a strong chance (say 60-70%) of getting to coach LeBron, do you take it?

No. Because the uspoken 40% is a bottomless pit of failure, humiliation and despair. Sure, he could go back to college and try to make something out of Texas A&M in a few years, but is that worth abandoning a national power that wasn't even a consistent conference power before you gave birth to it?

I say no. And I realize that subjective view colors my opinion on this. Maybe Izzo views it differently than me. But I doubt it.

[fleet]

Let's look at it another way.

Most people think LeBron returning to Cleveland is the most likely scenario. I think that too, just not because of Tom Izzo. I've thought it from the beginning.

Now let's say Tom Izzo sees the exact same thing, that Cavs have the edge, but its not a lock, LeBron actually has not made up his mind.

If you are Tom Izzo and you get an offer to coach the Cavs, doubling your salary for the next 6 years, and also having a strong chance (say 60-70%) of getting to coach LeBron, do you take it?

Would that slim chance of LeBron not coming back, just maybe be the reason for this choice being such a tough one for him?

And isn't it possible that just the strong likelihood of LeBron returning (not the lock of it) is enough to entice to you to accept the job?

Because *someone* is going to coach this Cavs team next year, and that someone may well have to take the job without 100% assurance from LeBron James that he is coming back. No one can force LeBron to make that kind of commitment right now, on June 9th, without him having the chance to see what every team has to sell him. Something that, with his ego, would seem like something he would like to peruse.

And whoever that coach would be, that is willing to take that risk, will win one of the very top jobs in the NBA if LBJ does come back. One of the highest paying and one with one of the greatest chances at success in the league during the next six years. That's a great attraction even without LBJ locking in. And if that low chance worst case does happen, and he bolts, well you can always at least cry yourself to sleep with your 6 million a year. It's hardly the worst consolation prize in the world.

No, none of that works for me Re. This is not a decision made in a vacuum. This is a top ranked MSU team you are asking Izzo to leave, for a chance? To go work for an MSU alumn, thereby setting yourselves up to be goats if MSU does not play up to snuff? And you can be reasonably assured they would not under any replacement coach hired on short notice. No, there is a lot of responsibility in Izzo's current position. MSU alumni are probabaly already angry at Gilbert. Izzo has to have a rock solid reason to leave, he MUST coach Lebron. He can't risk anything.

[Rusty Walrus]

Izzo is taking so long because he is trying to find out the chances of LBJ being there and if LBJ isn't there, is 6mil per worth leaving. If Izzo had info that all it took was him and LBJ would stay, he would of took the job ASAP. 6mil plus coaching LBJ, doesn't get better than that

If Izzo says yes, phase one of Gilbert's plan is complete. He has a high profile guy in place. Phase two is making moves now until June 30th, making the team better.

I don't think Izzo saying yes guarantees LBJ is staying because Gilbert still needs to improve the roster some. Also even though Izzo can't replace LBJ, having him and what they can get via S&T for LBJ, is better than a semi name coach and nothing.

This.

While Izzo's hiring may be high profile, unless Cleveland reshapes their roster, I don't see LeBron resigning with the Cavs.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

If you are Tom Izzo and you get an offer to coach the Cavs, doubling your salary for the next 6 years, and also having a strong chance (say 60-70%) of getting to coach LeBron, do you take it?

No. Because the uspoken 40% is a bottomless pit of failure, humiliation and despair. Sure, he could go back to college and try to make something out of Texas A&M in a few years, but is that worth abandoning a national power that wasn't even a consistent conference power before you gave birth to it?

I say no. And I realize that subjective view colors my opinion on this. Maybe Izzo views it differently than me. But I doubt it.

College will always welcome the Tom Izzos of the world - no matter how badly he fails at the NBA level - he knows that. It doesn't work in the reverse though. A couple of down years at MSU and Izzo isn't going to see the same kind of NBA offers.

The 6mil per guaranteed would make Izzo a top 3 paid coach in the NBA. And if he goes to Cleveland - its a no lose situation. Lebron stays and they are a contender. Lebron leaves and they have no expectations and Izzo gets to rebuild the team.

Either way he gets 30 million guaranteed over 5 years. He's going to have a hard time turning down that kind of money.

[Rerisen]

Izzo has to have a rock solid reason to leave, he MUST coach Lebron. He can't risk anything.

If this is true, I don't really believe it has to be, but let's assume it is. Then it means one of two things *must* be true.

1. LeBron was lying on national TV and everywhere else. And always knew he was coming back to the Cavs. At which point, why has he dithered at all? Why not commit to the Cavs and let them get on with making you a championship roster?

He gains zero from lying about his intentions, because the money is the same from Cleveland either way.

2. LeBron James agreed to return only because Tom Izzo is the coach. This one seems a stretch since it would lead us to believe that LeBron believes that a coach is the only thing between Cleveland getting bounced in the 2nd round, vs winning titles, the goal he professes to be his most important.

[DuckIII]

1. LeBron was lying on national TV and everywhere else.

Why do you keep saying that like it would be unusual?

Regardless, this entire discussion, though an interesting exercise and I've enjoyed it, is premature. None of my arguments and theories amount to a hill of beans until we see if Izzo actually takes the job.

[fleet]

he probably hasn't made up his mind, thats possibility #3. Meanwhile its to his advantage to squeeze everybody to make their situations as attractive as they humanly can. It seems to be working, and its a process. Hell David Gefen just offered to buy the Clippers for him.

[Rerisen]

Regardless, this entire discussion, though an interesting exercise and I've enjoyed it, is premature. None of my arguments and theories amount to a hill of beans until we see if Izzo actually takes the job.

Of course. I think he is most likely delaying precisely because he doesn't know if LBJ is coming back.

I don't see it as a hard choice at all if that if that assurance is in the bank.

He went to his team and told them he was 'thinking' about the Cavs job. There isn't much to think about otherwise, its not like failing to put together the right coaching staff would stop you at that point.

As far as LBJ lying, I just don't see what it gains him in the situation if he had no intention of leaving. He is just wasting valuable time that the Cavs could be putting into making other moves.

[JackFinn]

he probably hasn't made up his mind, thats possibility #3. Meanwhile its to his advantage to squeeze everybody to make their situations as attractive as they humanly can. It seems to be working, and its a process. Hell David Gefen just offered to buy the Clippers for him.

It's for Geffen's boyfriend. LeBron might take a season off to spend time following media coverage of him. He probably has 20 proxy realgm accounts he uses to troll each board lol'ing @ y'all thinking you have a chance to land LeBron.

[Leto]

Who cares about Tom freakin Izzo? Seriously, I can't see anyone--including Lebron-- thinking the Cavs FO is making a great move by hiring a college coach and paying him 6 million a season for 5 seasons. Plus, its exactly the M.O. the Cavs have had since they got Lebron including, but not limited to, getting Jamison and other salary crippling moves. Izzo is not going to be better than Mike Brown and it's not going to make Mo Williams a better defender. I'm sorry, but being a good FO does not include overpaying a college coach who hasn't coached an NBA game.

[red222]

maybe the www rumor pushed them to sway bron more toward them

[Scott May]

Izzo has to have a rock solid reason to leave, he MUST coach Lebron. He can't risk anything.

If this is true, I don't really believe it has to be, but let's assume it is. Then it means one of two things *must* be true.

1. LeBron was lying on national TV and everywhere else. And always knew he was coming back to the Cavs. At which point, why has he dithered at all? Why not commit to the Cavs and let them get on with making you a championship roster?

He gains zero from lying about his intentions, because the money is the same from Cleveland either way.

2. LeBron James agreed to return only because Tom Izzo is the coach. This one seems a stretch since it would lead us to believe that LeBron believes that a coach is the only thing between Cleveland getting bounced in the 2nd round, vs winning titles, the goal he professes to be his most important.

I'll admit it -- I have not followed every word that LeBron has said since the Cavs were bounced, or read every article or tweet that says what this is guy is thinking or where that guy is leaning. I think a lot of it is boring, coy, and immaterial. But isn't it possible that he's not really lying, just enjoying the fruits of having gained unrestricted free agency and maybe even being a bit of a drama queen?

And as for Izzo, you know me: no one on this board thinks less of college basketball than I do. It's a pale imitation of the sport they play in the NBA, and NCAA Div I basketball and football are just awful perversions of American higher education. That said, looking back at the discussions that we had when it was thought that WE were considering him as coach, I think he probably has the best gig in all of college sports.

He has unchallenged rule over a perennial powerhouse that's gone to 6 final fours in 12 years, yet unlike a Coach K or Roy Williams, he maintains sort of an underdog status. He makes as much as anyone in the game. He has a great formula for winning that dovetails perfectly with the churn caused by one-and-done for the elite players. He could not be more popular with his administration and within his state. He didn't get a head coaching job early enough in his career to end up being on the same level as a Dean Smith or Knight or Coach K, but if he puts in another 15 years, wins another title or two, etc., he will be on the short list of greatest coaches in college history. Morever, everything about the guy oozes satisfaction and contentment with what he's doing. He has openly and humorously discussed how frequently the NBA comes calling and how he is happy to say no.

I'll say it a final time: I just don't see this guy leaving that for a situation where he is not only going to lose, but he's going to lose in an awful, helpless, punishing fashion, and for years and years. Yes, it is a lot of money. But if that's the spur, it is not much more money than he can get from another NBA team in a better personnel situation.

I could be wrong. Maybe he is a money grubbing whore. Maybe Dan Gilbert is just that spectacularly stupid to think this is a smart hedge and a good way to start a LeBron-less era. I honestly just feel that the other theory -- that his signing would indicate he had a pretty strong hunch LeBron would stay -- is simpler and more plausible.

[Rerisen]

I could be wrong. Maybe he is a money grubbing whore. Maybe Dan Gilbert is just that spectacularly stupid to think this is a smart hedge and a good way to start a LeBron-less era. I honestly just feel that the other theory -- that his signing would indicate he had a pretty strong hunch LeBron would stay -- is simpler and more plausible.

In that case, I'll be hoping on the LeBron is a big fat liar angle, or to say it lighter, manipulator for his own benefit.

And that he gave a positive go ahead on Izzo, but internally has not really committed at all. But just wanted a solid coach in there should he indeed choose to stay.