Some rumors I've been hearing

[Seinfeld]

A year ago I watched a game with the Reinsdorf's at Jerry's home in Arizona. I know Michael's kids from a sports program.

Michael - (Boozer blows a layup) "great job boozer, too bad we're stuck with him"
Me - "yeah, but he was putting up big numbers in Utah"
Michael - "thats cause he was playing with Deron Williams"

He's right. Rose is no where near Deron's level when it comes to passing. Deron will make Boozer much better. Would be a good trade. I know it's random for me to bring this up now, but this thread triggered my memory about the discussion.

I have to call BS on this.

If this conversation would have really taken place, it would have ended with Reinsdorf saying "we could get rid of Boozer, but my dad is too cheap to amnesty him because he only cares about profits, not about winning. Just like the Einstein's on the RealGM message board, he's too dense to realize that winning equals MORE profits".

[xpmar9x]

If for some reason BKN is interested in Boozer, could we do something like:

Hump & Brooks for Boozer, Bell, & '13 1st?
[fillers where/if needed]

Provides us with a young shooter [potential starter?]. Gets rids of Boozers massive contract, to take on Humps exp deal. Provides BKN with another 'big name' & restocks a first for them. I think BKN would still say no though.

[AirP.]

Less than 1 FG difference between us & #1.

How much better would we get on D? We can't assume that every shot Boozer gives up, Taj would have cleanly blocked without fouling or altered. Taj is not even close to a DPOY big man like Dwight Howard.

Of course Taj can't stop every shot that Boozer would have given up, but I think there are multiple plays per game where Taj in place of Boozer would stop a better then average shot attempt.

Rebounding, it's much easier to rebound when you prioritze rebounding over defense.

Boozer is a good offensive PF, he's a good rebounding PF, he's just not a good defensive PF and not really an average PF. If you've played basketball and you've played tough defense, how much does it hurt to put it all on the line and then have someone just give up an easy shot?

Now on the other side of the coin, I'm sure our players look to Boozer to get some points for them, but I'm really willing to take the hit on offense to keep a better defensive PF in the game that has some ability on offense. It's not a question about being the #1 defense, it's about how many points the defense gives up. I really believe last year had Thibs played Noah, Taj and Asik way more then Boozer, this team would have had very few games of giving up 85 or more points. As it was last year, Chicago gave up less then 90 points 50% of the time... and that's with Boozer's bad defense(although it's better then it use to be but that's not saying a whole lot).

I believe a Thib's coached team with 3 very good defensive bigs being used could hold teams under 85 points a night, if not better then that. Toss in D.Rose and another talented offensive player at the SG/SF position and a scorer off the bench and this team would be a serious contender every year.

[sco]

I think you guys are missing the point of trading Boozer. To me the key is that our talent drop-off between Boozer and Taj is less than the possible increase in talent over Rip as our starting SG, and that a trade that brings us enough of net upgrade (without additional economic constraints) is a good idea.

[amares goggles]

A year ago I watched a game with the Reinsdorf's at Jerry's home in Arizona. I know Michael's kids from a sports program.

Michael - (Boozer blows a layup) "great job boozer, too bad we're stuck with him"
Me - "yeah, but he was putting up big numbers in Utah"
Michael - "thats cause he was playing with Deron Williams"

He's right. Rose is no where near Deron's level when it comes to passing. Deron will make Boozer much better. Would be a good trade. I know it's random for me to bring this up now, but this thread triggered my memory about the discussion.

I have to call BS on this.

If this conversation would have really taken place, it would have ended with Reinsdorf saying "we could get rid of Boozer, but my dad is too cheap to amnesty him because he only cares about profits, not about winning. Just like the Einstein's on the RealGM message board, he's too dense to realize that winning equals MORE profits".

haha. while there's no way for me to prove it, it doesn't make sense to amnesty boozer yet. if you did then this team is still so far over the cap to sign any other big names that it wouldn't make a difference.

amnestying boozer isn't the problem. signing him to this big fat contract in the first place is the problem. really can't do much at this point.

[Ajosu]

To me, it seems like some people want Boozer gone because they think that is the only way to get Taj to play more minutes than him.

I don't think that's why. Bottom line, his production (and role) doesn't justify his salary slot on this team. Everyone has their own opinion as to why this is, but I don't think anyone can argue with the result.

[BullsFTW]

The notion that we're simply better off without Boozer is absurd IMO. For losing Boozer to not hurt us, that means both of these things need to be true:

1) Because we've just signed Taj and Mirotic is pretty clearly in our significant, core, long term plans (and rightly so given how hard it is to get ahold of prospects that good especially with pro experience), any PF we'd get in return, must, IMO, be similar in skill/production to Boozer/Taj, AND have a contract that expires by 2014

2) Any SG/wing we might receive would have to CLEARLY be an upgrade from RIP, Belinelli, Jimmy and Kirk, AND have a contract that expires by 2014, because there is no way the Bulls are going to pass up on the chance to have a team of Rose, Noah, Taj, Deng, Mirotic, Butler, Teague, Bobcats pick, 2 more Bulls picks (2013 and 2014), plus room mid level player in 2014. That's the baseline scenario IMO for 2014 - amnesty Boozer, use the cap space to sign Mirotic and resign Deng, and go like this:

5: Noah, Bulls 2014 pick, room mid level player
4: Mirotic, Taj
3: Deng, Butler
2: Bobcats pick, Bulls 2013 pick
1: Rose, Teague, vet minimum

That's why there is a 2014 plan. The above is essentially the WORST case scenario IMO, and is awesome and young, built for the long haul.

I would actually like the Bulls to go after Paul George in 2014.

George/Butler
Mirotic/Taj
Noah
Draft Pick
Rose/Teague

[nitetrain8603]

Why are we discussing the Bobcats pick for 2014 now? Is it because they're playing a lot better these days? Also, it's protected, so which means if cashed in early, that means that pick won't be that great at all. Gar Paxdorf mentions a team very similar to what we have now, minus Boozer and an older Deng. I don't like that at all. I think that team is worse than 2010/11's team.

I do like the idea of George in 2014.

[NZB2323]

The NBA trade machine isn't working for me right now, but the salaries of Carlos Boozer and Kirk Hinrich match up against the salaries of Big Baby and Hedo.

[nitetrain8603]

The NBA trade machine isn't working for me right now, but the salaries of Carlos Boozer and Kirk Hinrich match up against the salaries of Big Baby and Hedo.

So you want to be worse in the short term, all to get rid of Boozer who is pretty productive? I mean, we can all agree that he hasn't lived up to the contract. Something tells me a big part of that is his wrist injury from 2010. He dunks a lot less and goes up a lot weaker to the basket since his last year with the Jazz and that's all I can point to. Either way, he's still very productive, and much more productive than Hedo and Big Baby. Keep in mind, I loved Hedo for awhile, but this makes no sense. Boozer has put up PERs of 18.8 and 19.7 the last two years. While he has been less efficient this year, at 15.7, he's still above average. I would work on getting rid of Kirk first and ride out Boozer.

[Ice the knees]

The notion that we're simply better off without Boozer is absurd IMO. For losing Boozer to not hurt us, that means both of these things need to be true:

1) Because we've just signed Taj and Mirotic is pretty clearly in our significant, core, long term plans (and rightly so given how hard it is to get ahold of prospects that good especially with pro experience), any PF we'd get in return, must, IMO, be similar in skill/production to Boozer/Taj, AND have a contract that expires by 2014

2) Any SG/wing we might receive would have to CLEARLY be an upgrade from RIP, Belinelli, Jimmy and Kirk, AND have a contract that expires by 2014, because there is no way the Bulls are going to pass up on the chance to have a team of Rose, Noah, Taj, Deng, Mirotic, Butler, Teague, Bobcats pick, 2 more Bulls picks (2013 and 2014), plus room mid level player in 2014. That's the baseline scenario IMO for 2014 - amnesty Boozer, use the cap space to sign Mirotic and resign Deng, and go like this:

5: Noah, Bulls 2014 pick, room mid level player
4: Mirotic, Taj
3: Deng, Butler
2: Bobcats pick, Bulls 2013 pick
1: Rose, Teague, vet minimum

That's why there is a 2014 plan. The above is essentially the WORST case scenario IMO, and is awesome and young, built for the long haul.

I would actually like the Bulls to go after Paul George in 2014.

George/Butler
Mirotic/Taj
Noah
Draft Pick
Rose/Teague

Yeah, I'm very hesitant to put a lot behind Deng after his contract expires. A glue guy closing in on 30 and played heavy heavy minutes during his prime.

He's also exceptional at nothing. When he truly slows down, what is his bread and butter going to be?

I know the Bulls are likely to resign him but I am not sure I would.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

The NBA trade machine isn't working for me right now, but the salaries of Carlos Boozer and Kirk Hinrich match up against the salaries of Big Baby and Hedo.

That would be a monumentally stupid trade.

[drivewayball]

Funny thing is that if the Bulls actually wanted to trade Boozer during this doldrum time of a fairly meaningless season, they would be playing him a heck of a lot more and featuring him on the offense instead of ignoring him for long periods. He'd easily be 20-12 and prime trade bait if he played his once customary 35 minutes and Nate would pass the ball instead of putting it up every time down the floor. Not playing Carlos at all in the fourth quarter is a coach thing that is destroying his value.

[Bandit King]

Do any of these rumors ever come true?

[chitownsalesmen]

Unless we are getting flexibility to make future moves you don't move Boozer.

[AirP.]

Do any of these rumors ever come true?

Every once in a while they do but they do let you get a glimpse what a FO is possibly thinking. I'd guess that less then 1% of things talked about by GMs themselves ever happen.

[Seinfeld]

Do any of these rumors ever come true?

Very few, but it's nothing against Ralph or his info.

Teams discuss trades all time, internally and with other teams. Even GarPax.

[Ice Man]

Yeah, I'm very hesitant to put a lot behind Deng after his contract expires. A glue guy closing in on 30 and played heavy heavy minutes during his prime.

He's also exceptional at nothing. When he truly slows down, what is his bread and butter going to be?

Good analysis. A 29 year old Deng would cost $15 million or so. Waste of money. There are always 26 year olds entering their prime who will be just as good for the next 5 years, and who cost half the price. Guys like Humphries or Dragic or Asik.

[Seinfeld]

Yeah, I'm very hesitant to put a lot behind Deng after his contract expires. A glue guy closing in on 30 and played heavy heavy minutes during his prime.

He's also exceptional at nothing. When he truly slows down, what is his bread and butter going to be?

Good analysis. A 29 year old Deng would cost $15 million or so. Waste of money. There are always 26 year olds entering their prime who will be just as good for the next 5 years, and who cost half the price. Guys like Humphries or Dragic or Asik.

Why would a 29 year old Deng cost $15 million or so?

Is another team going to offer him that? Anywhere near that? If not, why would the Bulls have to spend that much to re-sign him?

And if other teams are willing to offer him something close to that, doesn't that maybe mean he's worth it?

[Googjob]

Do any of these rumors ever come true?

No, they are all made up. Go through the history of people here who have big rumors. Not a single one has come true. They don't have sources or connections, just posting BS. No one in the league is going to be trading for Boozer without giving back an equally horrible contract in return.

Not to be harsh about this stuff, but I don't get why people are allowed to trumpet these bogus rumors. Just makes the forum look bad.