PG: Can't stop, won't stop

[Rerisen]

Anyone who complained about the Bulls being "unwatchable" is not allowed to complain about the 4 game win streak.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1644470

Oh make no mistake, the Bulls are much more watchable lately, I've watched more in the last 2 weeks than all the time prior.

That still doesn't mean the wins are good for this team's long term future or shouldn't be complained about.

Because the long term goal is not to 'enjoy' the wins of a ~25 win team or something, but to eventually build a real contender. For that you need elite talents. Easiest place to get them is the draft, and for that you need top picks.

I know people want to say well hey the kids are developing, but sorry none of them look like elite talents so far.

Lauri hasn't even been playing for half of them, the wins have more to do with Niko, Portis, Nwaba.

Dunn is contributing, but certainly not at some phenom level.

[Ralphb07]

Fred is doing a really good job and showing he can still be a good coach.


It different for me as I loved the Jimmy trade and if you look back in the summer I said it wasn't going to be this long rebuild. I just don't see how people are mad that we are winning with the young guys. Dunn is showing he was worthy of the 5th pick and the hype he got. Lauri is looking like a special player and we don't even have Lavine back. Even without the tank it's looking like Dunn, Lavine and Lauri are 3 core pieces we weren't going to get by the time Jimmy expired. The Bulls aren't making the playoffs and will finish no worse than top 8. It's not bad for these players to look way better. That's the goal isn't it

[Jcool0]

Fred is doing a really good job and showing he can still be a good coach.


It different for me as I loved the Jimmy trade and if you look back in the summer I said it wasn't going to be this long rebuild. I just don't see how people are mad that we are winning with the young guys. Dunn is showing he was worthy of the 5th pick and the hype he got. Lauri is looking like a special player and we don't even have Lavine back. Even without the tank it's looking like Dunn, Lavine and Lauri are 3 core pieces we weren't going to get by the time Jimmy expired. The Bulls aren't making the playoffs and will finish no worse than top 8. It's not bad for these players to look way better. That's the goal isn't it

Lets not go crazy here...

[MC3]

I swear to God if we are winning Lauri and Lavine. One of them better become superstars. Cause goal was to get high pick and get one. And now that's out the window.

[Ralphb07]

If their plan is anything other than getting a top pick, then that just leads back to my original point: they have to go. They can't contend, so if we're not tanking, then their goal is basketball hell. Sitting outside the playoffs drafting talent that isn't good enough to change their position.

Ayup. Anyone that wanted to blow it up, who is now happy we've won 4 straight.... just mind-boggling.

Maybe some people thought they actually came out better long term with the players they got for Jimmy. It's mind boggling that people are mad the young guys are winning. I'd rather this than getting Cam Payne players for Jimmy

[madvillian]

I think they are playing Hoiball, although they are still playing too slow. The half court offense is honestly pretty to watch at times. There's a lot of movement and now they have some guys that can really shoot it and with Dunn a penetrator and Nwaba a cutter that helps get good looks.

Gotta trade Rolo, he's a key offensive gog, somehow. Dude sets some nice picks on and off ball and can finish off the roll.

[Stratmaster]

You can't possibly blame the front office for young players playing hard and wanting to win games.

You can blame them for doing a rebuild backwards. You don't start by acquiring 3 players that are going to help you win, but aren't likely to be your franchise guy.

Now they are going to have to possibly make a dump trade, lose Niko for little value, to correct this from going 'on' track, if not more people.

Oh please. Right after the trade every one was saying the Bulls got trash back. Now you are saying Dunn and Markkanen are too good for the tank?

This board will be fun if LaVine comes back lighting it up.

Oh gawd if that happens I will be going through popcorn like water.

Sent from my SM-G920V using RealGM mobile app

[Red Larrivee]

stop this madness. There's no "overdue for variance" (casino would love you) --it's probability. You. want. the. best. odds. And, most critically, the worst record cannot fall below 4 AND has an almost 50% chance of being top 2.

That's what you have to know. No **** "the worst record doesn't usually get the 1st pick" -- it's 24% odds. So 1/4. Tell us something we don't know.

You want to suck. You DO NOT want to be around 5 or 6. 4 would be bad enough. We need to suck, bottom three at absolute worst.

I'm not disagreeing that the Bulls want to get a high lottery pick. I'm saying that chasing the worst record could easily backfire on them. The 36% chance at falling out of the Top 3 is nothing to dismiss. It's a yearly game that historically has a ton of variance. It would surprise nobody if the worst team falls out.

[GimmeDat]

It's inherently flawed to trade for 3 roster players and then also announce at the press conference that your plan is to build through the draft.

How is it flawed? Dunn was the 5th pick overall the year before. Markkanen was the 7th pick this year. They acquired three players still on their rookie deals. "Building through the draft" is just code for "Our team is inexperienced as hell and we expect to have a top pick because of it."

It's flawed because if you're building through the draft, you want lotto balls. Yet your young players playing well will subtract lotto balls. Rebuilding should be about raising the ceiling. In the situation that GarPax has designed, the success of one plank of the rebuild directly harms the other plank. This lowers the ceiling of this rebuild.

And yet Dunn was a top pick himself, abd Lavine would be the same in a redraft. This line of thinking seems a bit backwards.

The Bulls weren't going to tank with nothing, they wanted some young guys they gad some baseline for at the NBA level and to sell fans on. One is even out injured for half of the year.

[Rerisen]

Yeah they should have done it like Hinkie so they could be .500 in 4 or 5 seasons. I don't have green font available... on my phone... sorry.

If it took them 4-5 years just to finally have real hope, what do you think we are going to accomplish only tanking 1 year, or if this keeps up, not even tanking 1 season?

The history of successful rebuilds is pretty devoid of teams that did it in 1 year, unless they drafted an MJ or LeBron.

Just because the Bulls now look like maybe a bottom 10 team instead of a bottom 1, isn't a reason to get giddy or think we should change the big picture plan. This team is not ready to start trying to win.

[Shill]

How many times do I have to explain this, the first big piece that makes you win should ideally be your franchise player. After a year of being horrible getting you a top 3 pick.

Because once you start winning with lesser players, your odds to get a superstar start dwindling. And then its pointless to blow up a .500 team if you are just going to rebuild a Skiles like team of average-above average grinders.

At the rate the Bulls are going - even with just the young guys we are going to keep - we will likely only get 1 swing at a franchise player next summer, and then combined with that player, probably won't be picking in the top 5 again, because we'll have too much talent.

So they better not miss landing a star with that pick. But every game they win right now is hurting that chance.

But that’s a hypothetical situation.

We have to deal with the facts on the ground.

We made the decision to trade Jimmy. We got the best offer we could.

We’re better than expected right now.

If the front office tries to make some ill-fated playoff push this year, I’ll be mad. I’d expect them to sell high on a few players, as was reported by KC, which is the smart play.

There’s nothing really to complain about post-trade.

[ElPolloLoco]

Trade niko while his stock is rising

[Rerisen]

stop this madness. There's no "overdue for variance" (casino would love you) --it's probability. You. want. the. best. odds. And, most critically, the worst record cannot fall below 4 AND has an almost 50% chance of being top 2.

That's what you have to know. No **** "the worst record doesn't usually get the 1st pick" -- it's 24% odds. So 1/4. Tell us something we don't know.

You want to suck. You DO NOT want to be around 5 or 6. 4 would be bad enough. We need to suck, bottom three at absolute worst.

Maybe they want Hinrich over Wade again.

Yay, lets do the whole 'scrapper' team again for 5 years. Not much point to have blown it up for that.

If GarPax have any gray matter, they will get Niko outta here soon.

[TheSuzerain]

It's flawed because if you're building through the draft, you want lotto balls. Yet your young players playing well will subtract lotto balls. Rebuilding should be about raising the ceiling. In the situation that GarPax has designed, the success of one plank of the rebuild directly harms the other plank. This lowers the ceiling of this rebuild.

Paxson expected the Bulls to get lottery balls and they are still probable to. Trading for future picks would've only made the rebuild even more skeptical. Picks guarantee losing but they don't guarantee a brighter future.

There are no guarantees to a rebuild. You're trying to give yourself as much slack as possible. Draft picks allow you to be flexible and adaptable because it's kind of like having liquid currency.

When you trade for roster players, the clock immediately starts ticking because of their contract. And as I said their success takes away lotto balls.

Hinkie identified the optimal approach to asset management for a rebuilding NBA team trying to actually become a contender. His rebuild looks nothing like what we'll get. This doesn't bode well.

[Stratmaster]

The whole "We have to maintain culture!" thing is absolute bull ****. It truly does not matter.

You see over and over that a teams culture transforms when they get that superstar player in place. Look at the 76ers.

Did I miss a Sixers 4 game win streak somewhere ?

[the ultimates]

stop this madness. There's no "overdue for variance" (casino would love you) --it's probability. You. want. the. best. odds. And, most critically, the worst record cannot fall below 4 AND has an almost 50% chance of being top 2.

That's what you have to know. No **** "the worst record doesn't usually get the 1st pick" -- it's 24% odds. So 1/4. Tell us something we don't know.

You want to suck. You DO NOT want to be around 5 or 6. 4 would be bad enough. We need to suck, bottom three at absolute worst.

Maybe they want Hinrich over Wade again.

Yay, lets do the whole 'scrapper' team again for 5 years. Not much point to have blown it up for that.

If GarPax have any gray matter, they will get Niko outta here soon.

Wade was drafted before Hinrich.

[kulaz3000]

Yeah they should have done it like Hinkie so they could be .500 in 4 or 5 seasons. I don't have green font available... on my phone... sorry.

If it took them 4-5 years just to finally have real hope, what do you think we are going to accomplish only tanking 1 year, or if this keeps up, not even tanking 1 season?

The history of successful rebuilds is pretty devoid of teams that did it in 1 year, unless they drafted an MJ or LeBron.

Just because the Bulls now look like maybe a bottom 10 team instead of a bottom 1, isn't a reason to get giddy or think we should change the big picture plan. This team is not ready to start trying to win.

I think the ultimate goal is to get a top 3 pick at the very least correct? Do you think with the recent play we are somehow in danger of getting out of that range? Because I'm certainly not.

I'm of the belief that it won't take more than perhaps one or two of Niko, Bobby, Robin, and some other lesser players being traded for the tank to be right back on track.

I guess my question is, this early in the season are we really in panic that we are somehow going to get out of the top 3-5 in the lottery in the upcoming draft? Because right now it seems that there is a whole lot of panic that we are going to end up with the 10th pick or worse suddenly.

[ctl131]

When we lost to Pacers in a close game it was because Fred was bad and couldn't win down the stretch. Well, we have now played 3 close games out of 4, and we have won them all. Explanation?

I'll admit I was all over him after some of those bad games but I also have no problem saying its been much improved the last four and Hoiberg's gotten it right. I haven't seen a collision between two confused Bulls players on an inbound play in over a week, its wonderful!

[MC3]

https://streamable.com/sbweh

[Rerisen]

If their plan is anything other than getting a top pick, then that just leads back to my original point: they have to go. They can't contend, so if we're not tanking, then their goal is basketball hell. Sitting outside the playoffs drafting talent that isn't good enough to change their position.

Ayup. Anyone that wanted to blow it up, who is now happy we've won 4 straight.... just mind-boggling.

Maybe some people thought they actually came out better long term with the players they got for Jimmy. It's mind boggling that people are mad the young guys are winning. I'd rather this than getting Cam Payne players for Jimmy

Ralph look at titles teams that have won without a superstar. Not many.

These wins are hurting our chances to get the only thing that really matters.

That was a major narrative for trading Butler in the first place! He was only 'top 12' or top 15 whatever. Now are we going to try and start winning (say next year) without even a player as good as Jimmy? Aren't likely to get one of those if you don't get in the top 2 picks.