NBA Trade Thread #12

[Dez]

You’d have to be insane to have ZERO interest in Jokic. I’d give up our entire team, Matas included, and toss in The Bean and Willis Tower if needed.

No chance Denver moves him. I do think he leaves once his deal is up and joins Luka in LA, unfortunately.

I’m insane then because I don’t want him unless it’s signing as a free agent. Not trading for him.

Totally agree.. I would be insane to gut the team completely for Jokic. He is on the wrong side of 30s and he isnt exactly the guy you can build around for next 6-7 years. Its rather short 3 year window.

He literally turned 30 in February and his game will age perfectly well.

Anyone not interested in Joker is not interested in winning and that's just ridiculous.

Doesn't matter though we don't have the assets for him.

[Infinity2152]

For KD, it would include Vooch, PWill and Collins to make salaries work, it they take those 3 guys ok lol.. but thats bad deal for Suns!
KD is expiring and we get out of PWill deal. Then we have huge chunk of salary cap space for 2026-27.

But anyway thats not happening..

Yes, KD is expiring. So is Vucevic and Collins. Their contracts are probably far easier to move before the deadline than KD's because they're much smaller and the Suns are in cap hell. It gives them a LOT more flexibility, three tradeable players to fill holes instead of one. Also makes their other bigs tradeable right now. Maybe they take Huerter instead of Collins or Vucevic and gett another shooter. He's expiring too.

Pat looks bad here, but Tre Jones, Collins and Huerter looked bad before they came here. Pat is a young 6'7 pretty good defender who can shoots above average from three. None of that has really changed. We traded a Lavine caliber player to get Huerter, Collin and Jones, but it's unthinkable that Phoenix who is a way worse numbers spot than us would do this?

What would they be looking for in a KD trade anyway? I'd imagine a couple of useful players with big expiring contracts would be tops (like Collins and Vuc). They don't own their picks so no incentive to tank, they need tradeable assets and movable pieces. Plus a solid young player that fits their needs. Pat's a young 3and D guy who would be with two guard scorers. He's 23, he could turn it around it around and be a Mikal Bridges level player for them. I don't think they'll be star hunting or looking for mostly non-expiring contracts, they still have the cap issues.

These might not be the players they want, but I think this is EXACTLY the type of trade they should do. Don't think a 37-year-old expiring KD who could jet in the summer is going to bring the return you think it is.

Or they could offer KD/Grayson Allen for Vucevic, Williams, Huerter, Ayo or similar value (would involve a third team). Allen's contract runs thru 2027, Ayo's contract would be expiring too.

[Infinity2152]

Hypothetical question: If two teams make two agreements to do two trades because one team can't aggregate, and they're basically handshake agreements until the deals are done, would the league get involved?

For instance, Phoenix wants to deal KD but they want to clear more long term cap and can't aggregate. So they contact team X and say, "We'll trade you KD for this package. Hmm. coincidently we have a second package for Grayson Allen it would be great if you looked at." No rules against doing two separate trades with the same team. Likelihood NBA interferes and voids the trades? Would be really difficult to prove collusion, especially if the second trade is not suspicious, like Allen for Deni Avidja or Gafford.

[WesPeace]

For KD, it would include Vooch, PWill and Collins to make salaries work, it they take those 3 guys ok lol.. but thats bad deal for Suns!
KD is expiring and we get out of PWill deal. Then we have huge chunk of salary cap space for 2026-27.

But anyway thats not happening..

Yes, KD is expiring. So is Vucevic and Collins. Their contracts are probably far easier to move before the deadline than KD's because they're much smaller and the Suns are in cap hell. It gives them a LOT more flexibility, three tradeable players to fill holes instead of one. Also makes their other bigs tradeable right now. Maybe they take Huerter instead of Collins or Vucevic and gett another shooter. He's expiring too.

Pat looks bad here, but Tre Jones, Collins and Huerter looked bad before they came here. Pat is a young 6'7 pretty good defender who can shoots above average from three. None of that has really changed. We traded a Lavine caliber player to get Huerter, Collin and Jones, but it's unthinkable that Phoenix who is a way worse numbers spot than us would do this?

What would they be looking for in a KD trade anyway? I'd imagine a couple of useful players with big expiring contracts would be tops (like Collins and Vuc). They don't own their picks so no incentive to tank, they need tradeable assets and movable pieces. Plus a solid young player that fits their needs. Pat's a young 3and D guy who would be with two guard scorers. He's 23, he could turn it around it around and be a Mikal Bridges level player for them. I don't think they'll be star hunting or looking for mostly non-expiring contracts, they still have the cap issues.

These might not be the players they want, but I think this is EXACTLY the type of trade they should do. Don't think a 37-year-old expiring KD who could jet in the summer is going to bring the return you think it is.

Or they could offer KD/Grayson Allen for Vucevic, Williams, Huerter, Ayo or similar value (would involve a third team). Allen's contract runs thru 2027, Ayo's contract would be expiring too.

I wanted to include Huerter in post, but edit button didnt work..

I would prefer to keep Huerter tho, he is very solid player for us.

[WesPeace]

I’m insane then because I don’t want him unless it’s signing as a free agent. Not trading for him.

Totally agree.. I would be insane to gut the team completely for Jokic. He is on the wrong side of 30s and he isnt exactly the guy you can build around for next 6-7 years. Its rather short 3 year window.

He literally turned 30 in February and his game will age perfectly well.

Anyone not interested in Joker is not interested in winning and that's just ridiculous.

Doesn't matter though we don't have the assets for him.

I dont see him motivated enough to have long career and he isnt exactly known for good offseason workouts lol.. also he as defender is average at best, he will be bad in few years.

[sco]

For KD, it would include Vooch, PWill and Collins to make salaries work, it they take those 3 guys ok lol.. but thats bad deal for Suns!
KD is expiring and we get out of PWill deal. Then we have huge chunk of salary cap space for 2026-27.

But anyway thats not happening..

I read somewhere maybe on wiretap that PHO was prioritizing that the KD trade get them out of the 2nd apron. Not sure we have the room to make a deal like that, but maybe we'd go into the tax for it. It would certainly cost us 2 1sts in that deal.

That all said, I worry that KD would hinder Matas' development and Giddey/Coby's improved play. Although if we got KD, maybe the play is to put Coby in the deal instead of a 1st.

Separately I read that PHO is loosely committed to dumping Beal at any cost. I wonder if we should be looking to do a deal where we try to trade Coby for some 1sts, try to get Beal for PWill + filler and see if we could get at least 1 1st back from PHO in that deal. After next season, we might be able to trade Beal (expiring) plus several 1sts for a star.

[NecessaryEvil]

Read on Twitter

Meh but imagine if we did get MPJ for Zach. Added to the core 3? That woulda been something to see going forward

G Giddey
G White
F Porter Jr.
F Buzelis
C Smith

[Infinity2152]

For KD, it would include Vooch, PWill and Collins to make salaries work, it they take those 3 guys ok lol.. but thats bad deal for Suns!
KD is expiring and we get out of PWill deal. Then we have huge chunk of salary cap space for 2026-27.

But anyway thats not happening..

I read somewhere maybe on wiretap that PHO was prioritizing that the KD trade get them out of the 2nd apron. Not sure we have the room to make a deal like that, but maybe we'd go into the tax for it. It would certainly cost us 2 1sts in that deal.

That all said, I worry that KD would hinder Matas' development and Giddey/Coby's improved play. Although if we got KD, maybe the play is to put Coby in the deal instead of a 1st.

Separately I read that PHO is loosely committed to dumping Beal at any cost. I wonder if we should be looking to do a deal where we try to trade Coby for some 1sts, try to get Beal for PWill + filler and see if we could get at least 1 1st back from PHO in that deal. After next season, we might be able to trade Beal (expiring) plus several 1sts for a star.

Way I see it, KD could be great for us in a number of ways. I know people want the young leading the young, but KD seems the kind of guy who could be a great mentor to the young guys, Matas in particular. He genuinely loves basketball, has a ton of knowledge and the best thing is he's expiring. Clear that entire amount completely or sign him to a value deal to retire here as a vet. I think he would help Matas development, Matas is not a strong rebounder and would be better at SF, imo. Depending on the asset cost of course, but I think we're putting a lot of pressure on Matas to leap to 20 pt scorer in year 2. They win a lot more games, and I think the young guys have more fun and play better with Easy Money Sniper out there. There's an easy positional fit, do we really want Matas or Pat playing PF next year?

Beal has the no-trade clause and I believe has already vetoed Chicago as a landing spot. Nothing they can do with Beal unless they find a team he consents to being traded to.

I don't think the market will be huge for KD without the Suns taking back long-term money. Don't think they're getting cap relief, good players and multiple firsts for an expiring 37 yr old, even KD.

[sco]

Read on Twitter

Meh but imagine if we did get MPJ for Zach. Added to the core 3? That woulda been something to see going forward

G Giddey
G White
F Porter Jr.
F Buzelis
C Smith

If they like him, not sure I'd push for him. I saw him as a salary dump in the new regime. Don't see him as an upgrade of Huerter in terms of a role here. I'd also consider Gordon as a salary dump type deal. He's paid $32M for 3 more seasons. He never seems to be able to stay healthy, but he is a great glue guy for them. Maybe Ball + Williams?

[Infinity2152]

Read on Twitter

Meh but imagine if we did get MPJ for Zach. Added to the core 3? That woulda been something to see going forward

G Giddey
G White
F Porter Jr.
F Buzelis
C Smith

If they like him, not sure I'd push for him. I saw him as a salary dump in the new regime. Don't see him as an upgrade of Huerter in terms of a role here. I'd also consider Gordon as a salary dump type deal. He's paid $32M for 3 more seasons. He never seems to be able to stay healthy, but he is a great glue guy for them. Maybe Ball + Williams?

Gordon for Ball/Williams looks interesting. Gordon only played 50 games this season, but last three are 73, 68, 75. I'd take that as healthy enough. He knows how to fit in with other scorers and brings the defense we're looking for. Lock up the PF spot for the next 3 years.

Would much prefer him to MPJ for this current team.

[Dez]

Totally agree.. I would be insane to gut the team completely for Jokic. He is on the wrong side of 30s and he isnt exactly the guy you can build around for next 6-7 years. Its rather short 3 year window.

He literally turned 30 in February and his game will age perfectly well.

Anyone not interested in Joker is not interested in winning and that's just ridiculous.

Doesn't matter though we don't have the assets for him.

I dont see him motivated enough to have long career and he isnt exactly known for good offseason workouts lol.. also he as defender is average at best, he will be bad in few years.

I cannot find the words to truly describe how bad of a take this is.

[WindyCityBorn]

Read on Twitter

Meh but imagine if we did get MPJ for Zach. Added to the core 3? That woulda been something to see going forward

G Giddey
G White
F Porter Jr.
F Buzelis
C Smith

We couldn’t afford all that assuming Buzelis gets a max and Giddey/Coby are getting $30 million per each. Way too much money for team not guaranteed to be contender

Also Porter Jr is just Zach playing next to an all-time great. He is not a real max contract player. He hasn’t even sniffed an all-star game.

[WesPeace]

He literally turned 30 in February and his game will age perfectly well.

Anyone not interested in Joker is not interested in winning and that's just ridiculous.

Doesn't matter though we don't have the assets for him.

I dont see him motivated enough to have long career and he isnt exactly known for good offseason workouts lol.. also he as defender is average at best, he will be bad in few years.

I cannot find the words to truly describe how bad of a take this is.

Explain?
Its just my opinion, I dont see Jokic playing into his 40s like many players do. I could see him retiring around 35. Same with Luka..

Defense - you see Jokic as very good defender? I dont.. in playoffs he turns up the notch a bit tho, but he is elite offensive center, no doubt.

[WesPeace]

For KD, it would include Vooch, PWill and Collins to make salaries work, it they take those 3 guys ok lol.. but thats bad deal for Suns!
KD is expiring and we get out of PWill deal. Then we have huge chunk of salary cap space for 2026-27.

But anyway thats not happening..

I read somewhere maybe on wiretap that PHO was prioritizing that the KD trade get them out of the 2nd apron. Not sure we have the room to make a deal like that, but maybe we'd go into the tax for it. It would certainly cost us 2 1sts in that deal.

That all said, I worry that KD would hinder Matas' development and Giddey/Coby's improved play. Although if we got KD, maybe the play is to put Coby in the deal instead of a 1st.

Separately I read that PHO is loosely committed to dumping Beal at any cost. I wonder if we should be looking to do a deal where we try to trade Coby for some 1sts, try to get Beal for PWill + filler and see if we could get at least 1 1st back from PHO in that deal. After next season, we might be able to trade Beal (expiring) plus several 1sts for a star.

I think that could ruin teams chemistry ,getting both KD and Beal instead of half of our current team.

I wouldnt want Beal in any case, he has player option worth 57M for 2026-27, yikes! Probably pick it up,because he wont get half of that anywhere else! Too much money tied to two guys..

[sco]

For KD, it would include Vooch, PWill and Collins to make salaries work, it they take those 3 guys ok lol.. but thats bad deal for Suns!
KD is expiring and we get out of PWill deal. Then we have huge chunk of salary cap space for 2026-27.

But anyway thats not happening..

I read somewhere maybe on wiretap that PHO was prioritizing that the KD trade get them out of the 2nd apron. Not sure we have the room to make a deal like that, but maybe we'd go into the tax for it. It would certainly cost us 2 1sts in that deal.

That all said, I worry that KD would hinder Matas' development and Giddey/Coby's improved play. Although if we got KD, maybe the play is to put Coby in the deal instead of a 1st.

Separately I read that PHO is loosely committed to dumping Beal at any cost. I wonder if we should be looking to do a deal where we try to trade Coby for some 1sts, try to get Beal for PWill + filler and see if we could get at least 1 1st back from PHO in that deal. After next season, we might be able to trade Beal (expiring) plus several 1sts for a star.

I think that could ruin teams chemistry ,getting both KD and Beal instead of half of our current team.

I wouldnt want Beal in any case, he has player option worth 57M for 2026-27, yikes! Probably pick it up,because he wont get half of that anywhere else! Too much money tied to two guys..

To clarify, I wasn't suggesting we go after KD and Beal together. Mainly I thought Beal could be interesting from 2 perspectives:

1) Some here are worried about overpaying Coby. This is a chance to get value from Coby ( a couple 1sts).
2) Take on Beal and get one or more 1sts for taking on his bad deal, while ridding ourselves of PWill and maybe Vuc.
3) Bet that Beal looks as bad as he does because he's a 1st option scorer in a 3rd option role.

So at the end, we may not be taking much of a step back from Coby to Beal, but we end up with 3 1sts to either take or, turn-around and attach to Beal's deal in his last season to go after a true star.

[Infinity2152]

Don't think the Suns have anywhere near enough good picks to move Beal. With his no-trade clause, that's probably the worst contract in the league right now. If we thought flipping Lavine was hard, Beal's a whole different level of hard. Bulls do something that crazy, say goodbye to White and Beal is your big money star until 2027. We have 3 young guys now, two who need to be paid, an incoming rookie and presumably a rookie next year. Not the time to be trading massive cap space for picks. Hopefully we have 5 young guys to play with already next year, and that's not including if Pat Will, Julian Phillips or Terry show up, or if Tre Jones is still here or Jalen Smith levels up.

Do think Beal is still a good scorer and probably underrated right now, but he presents the same issues as Lavine, except he'd be older taking minutes and shots from the young guys. Plus, he's already vetoed Chicago, iirc.

Anybody want to share what their idea of a great summer (assume draft pick around 10) with realistic trades looks like for the Bulls? Limit 2-3 reasonable trades?

[Dez]

Do people here actually watch anyone outside of Chicago? I'm thinking they don't or else they'd realise how ridiculous the Nuggets would have to be to accept a Ball/Williams deal for Gordon.

Aaron Gordon is an absolutely perfect fit for Nikola Jokic.

[Infinity2152]

Do people here actually watch anyone outside of Chicago? I'm thinking they don't or else they'd realise how ridiculous the Nuggets would have to be to accept a Ball/Williams deal for Gordon.

Aaron Gordon is an absolutely perfect fit for Nikola Jokic.

Why do people think we should propose trades where we lose? Aaron Gordon is certainly not untradeable. If somebody would have said Ball/Williams and two firsts is it unthinkable then? Actual right now value for Denver is exactly the same, future firsts don't help the team now. It's quibbling over price. Aaron Gordon costs $32 mil in 2026, when Murray is at $50 mill, Jokic at $59 mill, and Porter Jr at $40 mill. Somebody's probably gone.

Porter Jr's a great fit with Jokic, so is Murray, most players that we would want to trade for would theoretically be good players/good fits. Trying to figure out what the opposing team is looking for is a losing battle, several reasons he could want out or they could want him gone, some outside of on court contributions. They tried to move MPJ and don't think they'll get much for Murray, if they want to shake it up, new management, Gordon may be the most valuable trade asset outside of Jokic. Earliest a Ball/Williams for Gordon trade could happen is summer 2026, not now.

Agree it's unlikely at best, doesn't change the fact that he's a great fit and depending on where you value Ball and Williams, who's way younger and cheaper than Gordon, probably close to his approximate trade value plus some filler.

[Dez]

Do people here actually watch anyone outside of Chicago? I'm thinking they don't or else they'd realise how ridiculous the Nuggets would have to be to accept a Ball/Williams deal for Gordon.

Aaron Gordon is an absolutely perfect fit for Nikola Jokic.

Why do people think we should propose trades where we lose? Aaron Gordon is certainly not untradeable. If somebody would have said Ball/Williams and two firsts is it unthinkable then? Actual right now value for Denver is exactly the same, future firsts don't help the team now. It's quibbling over price. Aaron Gordon costs $32 mil in 2026, when Murray is at $50 mill, Jokic at $59 mill, and Porter Jr at $40 mill. Somebody's probably gone.

Porter Jr's a great fit with Jokic, so is Murray, most players that we would want to trade for would theoretically be good players/good fits. Trying to figure out what the opposing team is looking for is a losing battle, several reasons he could want out or they could want him gone, some outside of on court contributions. They tried to move MPJ and don't think they'll get much for Murray, if they want to shake it up, new management, Gordon may be the most valuable trade asset outside of Jokic. Earliest a Ball/Williams for Gordon trade could happen is summer 2026.

Agree it's unlikely at best, doesn't change the fact that he's a great fit and depending on where you value Ball and Williams, who's way younger and cheaper than Gordon, probably close to his approximate trade value plus some filler.

Nobody is saying this, it's about proposing trades that aren't ridiculously one sided.

Williams is cheaper, significantly worse and extremely overpaid while Ball is a walking injury.

It's not close to his value and only the most homer fan would think so, the filler would need to be significant to offset the lack of production the Nuggets would be getting.

[Infinity2152]

Do people here actually watch anyone outside of Chicago? I'm thinking they don't or else they'd realise how ridiculous the Nuggets would have to be to accept a Ball/Williams deal for Gordon.

Aaron Gordon is an absolutely perfect fit for Nikola Jokic.

Why do people think we should propose trades where we lose? Aaron Gordon is certainly not untradeable. If somebody would have said Ball/Williams and two firsts is it unthinkable then? Actual right now value for Denver is exactly the same, future firsts don't help the team now. It's quibbling over price. Aaron Gordon costs $32 mil in 2026, when Murray is at $50 mill, Jokic at $59 mill, and Porter Jr at $40 mill. Somebody's probably gone.

Porter Jr's a great fit with Jokic, so is Murray, most players that we would want to trade for would theoretically be good players/good fits. Trying to figure out what the opposing team is looking for is a losing battle, several reasons he could want out or they could want him gone, some outside of on court contributions. They tried to move MPJ and don't think they'll get much for Murray, if they want to shake it up, new management, Gordon may be the most valuable trade asset outside of Jokic. Earliest a Ball/Williams for Gordon trade could happen is summer 2026.

Agree it's unlikely at best, doesn't change the fact that he's a great fit and depending on where you value Ball and Williams, who's way younger and cheaper than Gordon, probably close to his approximate trade value plus some filler.

Nobody is saying this, it's about proposing trades that aren't ridiculously one sided.

Williams is cheaper, significantly worse and extremely overpaid while Ball is a walking injury.

It's not close to his value and only the most homer fan would think so, the filler would need to be significant to offset the lack of production the Nuggets would be getting.

Once again, this is not 30 yr old $22 mill Aaron Gordon of this season or Pat Williams or Lonzo Ball of this season. The earliest this trade would be feasible is summer 2026. Now you can guess you'll know what 31 yr old Aaron Gordon at $32 mill is worth vs what Ball or Pat are worth after a year, but that's a lot of guessing. Only the most pessimistic fan would describe Ball as a "walking injury" or assume Williams won't get better. Ball alone is worth twice his contract if he's healthy next season. Just as impactful as Gordon, if not more. Pat's what 23? And his career is over? Your description is just "cheaper, worse and overpaid". Not way younger, better shooter, good defender. Can't use words like homer if you're going to be so obviously biased. Gordon is averaging just under 5 rebounds a game at starting PF, he's not Evan Mobley.

Ok, let's play your game. This trade is ridiculously one sided. Next season Aaron Gordon puts up the same 15pt, 5rbs, 3 assts with great defense (0.3 blocks) for 50 games he did this year. Ball plays 50 games, puts up 12pts, 5 rbs, 6 assts with great defense. Pat puts up 12 pts, 5 rbs, 2 assts with great defense. How many first round picks do the Bulls need to add to make the value even to get 31 yr old Aaron Gordon next summer, in your opinion? Mind you, he's a year older and his contract just jumped $10 million.

He's having a career year shooting the 3, but shot 29% the season before, so who knows? Career 33% shooter vs Ball and Pat closer to 40% shooters. It's not as lopsided as you're making it out to be.