Which Trio would you prefer?

[mj234eva]

Rose/Deng/Noah. Melo doesn't make his teammates better (hello Amare Stoudemire) and doesn't defend. Omer remains an offensive liability.

The mythical make your teammates better.

[chitownsalesmen]

Heres the point of this thread that most people just don't seem to understand. The flaws in Loul Deng's game are physical limitations that for the most can't or would be extremely difficult and unlikely to be able to overcome. All of Melo's flaws in his game are mental lapses/mistakes/ignorance and situational. Melo is an amazing scorer and has the size of a lot starting power-forwards he doesn't need to be a point-forward. Hes never been in a winning situation, as a lot of people to say of Derrick Rose, Melo wasn't the GM of the Knicks or the Nuggets.

Coming to the Bulls could potentially solve a lot of Melos problems, Rose can focus more on being a true point guard and distributing but still be able to turn it up in the 4th. Melo could be the new go-to scorer whenever when we need a bucket. And having a coach like Thibs could really help him defensively and give him structure and a winning environment for him to correct his mishaps.

That's really all there is too say, unless your argument is that you know Carmelo Anthony well enough to say that he is just a moron who can't learn when taught properly.

[johnnyvann840]

iverson was not better than melo in 2007, fact.

Yes he was, FACT.

karl isn't a coach I value that highly.

The HOF and his .600 career winning % disagree with you.

Yeah an over the hill, very undersized SG who was worse of a chucker than Melo wasn't better than a young Melo. Besides from the fact that team already had two ball-dominate player in Melo and JR Smith adding a cranky old Iverson did not help. Those Nuggets teams had absolutely no direction and bunch of redundant talent that all needed the ball. Sure they where freaking awesome in NBA 2K but in real life NBA basketball the sum was not nearly as great as its parts. Shame that HOF head coach couldn't figure out how to get the most out of all that talent huh?

As far as karl how has he done in the playoffs? Why did Denver fire him after he won COY, with a contract still in place to take a flyer on a guy whos never been a head coach? Hes a flawed coach who puts too much emphasizes on one side of the ball. He's not VDN but he's not Thibs/PJax/Reily either.

Sorry, can't take anyone with a freaking Jalen Rose avy seriously.

[chitownsalesmen]

Yes he was, FACT.



The HOF and his .600 career winning % disagree with you.

Yeah an over the hill, very undersized SG who was worse of a chucker than Melo wasn't better than a young Melo. Besides from the fact that team already had two ball-dominate player in Melo and JR Smith adding a cranky old Iverson did not help. Those Nuggets teams had absolutely no direction and bunch of redundant talent that all needed the ball. Sure they where freaking awesome in NBA 2K but in real life NBA basketball the sum was not nearly as great as its parts. Shame that HOF head coach couldn't figure out how to get the most out of all that talent huh?

As far as karl how has he done in the playoffs? Why did Denver fire him after he won COY, with a contract still in place to take a flyer on a guy whos never been a head coach? Hes a flawed coach who puts too much emphasizes on one side of the ball. He's not VDN but he's not Thibs/PJax/Reily either.

Sorry, can't take anyone with a freaking Jalen Rose avy seriously.

Is that code word for, "oh snap dude with Jalen Rose avy(and sig btw) just handed me my but in a paper bag?"

Its not you're fault bro I'm just too reasonable for some people.

[GMgoran]

IMO he wasn't close to as good as Melo in 2007.

2006/07 season:

Carmelo Anthony - 28.9 ppg / 6.0 rpg / 3.8 apg / 1.2 spg
Allen Iverson - 24.8 ppg / 3.0 rpg / 7.2 apg / 1.8 spg

Once again, you are wrong ...

[GMgoran]

Rose/Deng/Noah. Melo doesn't make his teammates better (hello Amare Stoudemire) and doesn't defend. Omer remains an offensive liability.

The mythical make your teammates better.

Mythical?

It is such a shame that you've never had the chance to watch the likes of Doctor J, Magic, Bird or Jordan ... You would have loved them ...

[chitownsalesmen]

IMO he wasn't close to as good as Melo in 2007.

2006/07 season:

Carmelo Anthony - 28.9 ppg / 6.0 rpg / 3.8 apg / 1.2 spg
Allen Iverson - 24.8 ppg / 3.0 rpg / 7.2 apg / 1.8 spg

Once again, you are wrong ...

Once again you're looking at raw numbers and not taking into consideration roles on the team and the metrics! Melo still had better volume with better efficiency on a ass-backward team that had no focus or direction with not one but two other guys who where taking a lot shots from Melo in Iverson and JR. and don't forget Andre Miller who is useless without the ball in his hand.

Bear in mind, as I've mentioned before in this thread I am and was a big, big Iverson fan but as a fan of his who paid attention to his entire career I understand his faults and shortcomings. Iverson was at his best when he had a team full of defensive minded players who GTFO of iversons way and a GOAT defensive coach orchestrating the D. By 2007 Iverson had gone from a decent ball hawk who piled up steals too a guy who all too often just blew defensive assignments and gambled way way too much.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Rose/Deng/Noah. Melo doesn't make his teammates better (hello Amare Stoudemire) and doesn't defend. Omer remains an offensive liability.

The mythical make your teammates better.

Or the factual make your teammates worse.

[mj234eva]

Rose/Deng/Noah. Melo doesn't make his teammates better (hello Amare Stoudemire) and doesn't defend. Omer remains an offensive liability.

The mythical make your teammates better.

Mythical?

It is such a shame that you've never had the chance to watch the likes of Doctor J, Magic, Bird or Jordan ... You would have loved them ...

Saw all those guys sans Doctor J. None of those guys "made" their teammates better. If and when they played with WORSE teammates, they weren't as successful. It's that simple.

Jordan once had a quote from before he started winning. Some reporter stated that he didn't make his teammates better like Magic did. And Jordan quipped something to the effect of; 'give me Kareem and Worthy to make better.'

[GMgoran]

The mythical make your teammates better.

Mythical?

It is such a shame that you've never had the chance to watch the likes of Doctor J, Magic, Bird or Jordan ... You would have loved them ...

Saw all those guys sans Doctor J. None of those guys "made" their teammates better. If and when they played with WORSE teammates, they weren't as successful. It's that simple.

Jordan once had a quote from before he started winning. Some reporter stated that he didn't make his teammates better like Magic did. And Jordan quipped something to the effect of; 'give me Kareem and Worthy to make better.'

Like I have suspected, you have never really seen them play ...

[chitownsalesmen]

Mythical?

It is such a shame that you've never had the chance to watch the likes of Doctor J, Magic, Bird or Jordan ... You would have loved them ...

Saw all those guys sans Doctor J. None of those guys "made" their teammates better. If and when they played with WORSE teammates, they weren't as successful. It's that simple.

Jordan once had a quote from before he started winning. Some reporter stated that he didn't make his teammates better like Magic did. And Jordan quipped something to the effect of; 'give me Kareem and Worthy to make better.'

Like I have suspected, you have never really seen them play ...

Have a difference of opinion with GMorgan ; get told by GMorgan what you have and haven't seen.

You and TylerB have a prophetic vision, if only we could all be as intelligent and knowledgeable as you Morg.

[mj234eva]

He's probably one of those people that said Kobe didn't make his teammates better post Shaq and before the Bynum emergence and Gasol trade (post Bynum's injury). Suddenly Kobe makes his teammates better because they are winning, not because his teammates got better (or those that were already on the team improved) but I digress.

[GMgoran]

Have a difference of opinion with GMorgan ; get told by GMorgan what you have and haven't seen.

You and TylerB have a prophetic vision, if only we could all be as intelligent and knowledgeable as you Morg.

Watching regularly NBA basketball for 28-29 years has it's advantages ... Once you get in that position, you will understand what I am talking about ...

[mj234eva]

Rose/Deng/Noah. Melo doesn't make his teammates better (hello Amare Stoudemire) and doesn't defend. Omer remains an offensive liability.

The mythical make your teammates better.

Or the factual make your teammates worse.

I didn't touch of this originally but it's not Melo's fault he's best suited to play the 4 with the Knicks. Some guys skill set overlap and it hurts the other, no biggie. They'd trade Amare but those knees.... Statically, when him and Iverson (talking about Melo obviously) played together, Iverson was still allowed to "get his" and so was Melo. And it's a bit unfair to put the blame for Amare's downfall on Melo, Chandler clogging the paint is also a problem. Guess Chandler also makes his teammates worse, although Dallas would disagree, at least for that one season.

Funny you put that, Lebron makes his teammates better doesn't he? Yet, Chris Bosh is a worse player playing with Lebron as well. And I'm not speaking about averages, I'm talking about on the court playing style. He's not the same player he was in Toronto, largely because Lebron needs that space to operate. Hell, Wade is injury prone but in order for them to win, he had to take a back seat and not be 1b to Lebron's 1a. So, he was moved more off the ball, more cutting with Lebron driving. But Lebron "makes" them better. He actually doesn't.

Great players get role players (mostly) easy (or easier) shots. If those role players suck, (think Kobe circa 05-07), the star player is going to look "worse."

[Polynice4Pippen]

The mythical make your teammates better.

Or the factual make your teammates worse.

I didn't touch of this originally but it's not Melo's fault he's best suited to play the 4 with the Knicks. Some guys skill set overlap and it hurts the other, no biggie. They'd trade Amare but those knees.... Statically, when him and Iverson (talking about Melo obviously) played together, Iverson was still allowed to "get his" and so was Melo. And it's a bit unfair to put the blame for Amare's downfall on Melo, Chandler clogging the paint is also a problem. Guess Chandler also makes his teammates worse, although Dallas would disagree, at least for that one season.

Funny you put that, Lebron makes his teammates better doesn't he? Yet, Chris Bosh is a worse player playing with Lebron as well. And I'm not speaking about averages, I'm talking about on the court playing style. He's not the same player he was in Toronto, largely because Lebron needs that space to operate. Hell, Wade is injury prone but in order for them to win, he had to take a back seat and not be 1b to Lebron's 1a. So, he was moved more off the ball, more cutting with Lebron driving. But Lebron "makes" them better. He actually doesn't.

Great players get role players (mostly) easy (or easier) shots. If those role players suck, (think Kobe circa 05-07), the star player is going to look "worse."

Come on now. Bosh and Wade shot the best field goal percentages of their careers this season. Of their ENTIRE CAREERS. So yes, LeBron makes his teammates better.

[the ultimates]

I would hope that a player like Carmelo who uses up 30%+ of the offense on a per game per season basis makes his teammates better. To give him a pass and make it seem like he is dealing with such inferior coaches and talent when teams are built around his strength's and weaknesses is just pure excuse making for him.

[mj234eva]

Come on now. Bosh and Wade shot the best field goal percentages of their careers this season. Of their ENTIRE CAREERS. So yes, LeBron makes his teammates better.

So did Lebron. Who made him better? Wade or Bosh? Wade went from shooting 36% from 16-23 feet in 2012, to 42% in 2013 (even though the assisted % on those shots decreased), does Lebron get credit for that? Maybe Wade worked on his shot a little bit more?, I don't know but that's a possibility. Also could be the addition of Ray allowed him more open looks.

[Red Larrivee]

Or the factual make your teammates worse.

I don't understand blaming Melo for Amare's downfall. They occupy the same space on the floor and it was clear from day one that it wouldn't work. Melo is not a point guard, nor does he play with point guard instincts. Expecting him to do what LeBron does is foolish. However, it doesn't mean he doesn't look to pass and isn't a good passer.

People using the assist argument are being basic and naive.

Career ast per game / ast % / ppg / mpg

Player X: 2.6 / 13.1 / (22.6 ppg) / 36.1
Carmelo: 3.1 / 15.8 / (25.0 ppg) / 36.3
Player Z: 3.1 / 15.2 / (26.6 ppg) / 38.2

Let's just say that Bulls fans would gut the team to get the prime versions of Player X and Player Z on their teams if they knew who they were, even though their assist rates are in the neighborhood of Carmelo "The Black Hole."

I would not be worried about Carmelo playing like a point guard on the Bulls. We have Derrick Rose for that. The Bulls are a team who would benefit heavily from a player who doesn't need Rose to score and can do it himself. Because of Anthony, teams would not be able to double-coverage Rose anymore, and the spacing that a Rose/Butler/Anthony/Mirotic/Noah lineup creates, would open up driving rooms. At it's peak, it would be unguardable.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Or the factual make your teammates worse.

I don't understand blaming Melo for Amare's downfall. They occupy the same space on the floor and it was clear from day one that it wouldn't work. Melo is not a point guard, nor does he play with point guard instincts. Expecting him to do what LeBron does is foolish. However, it doesn't mean he doesn't look to pass and isn't a good passer.

People using the assist argument are being basic and naive.

Career ast per game / ast % / ppg / mpg

Player X: 2.6 / 13.1 / (22.6 ppg) / 36.1
Carmelo: 3.1 / 15.8 / (25.0 ppg) / 36.3
Player Z: 3.1 / 15.2 / (26.6 ppg) / 38.2

Let's just say that Bulls fans would gut the team to get the prime versions of Player X and Player Z on their teams if they knew who they were, even though their assist rates are in the neighborhood of Carmelo "The Black Hole."

I would not be worried about Carmelo playing like a point guard on the Bulls. We have Derrick Rose for that. The Bulls are a team who would benefit heavily from a player who doesn't need Rose to score and can do it himself. Because of Anthony, teams would not be able to double-coverage Rose anymore, and the spacing that a Rose/Butler/Anthony/Mirotic/Noah lineup creates, would open up driving rooms. At it's peak, it would be unguardable.

The fact that Stoudemire went from an MVP level of performance to pretty much a mediocre PF upon the arrival of Melo cannot be ignored. Yes, the Knicks front office should probably take some blame for the fit not being ideal. But ultimately, Amare was an incredible weapon at Melo's disposal.

And it's not just the low assists totals for Melo. You also have to add in his lack of defense or an all-around floor game, and his consistently awful field goal percentages from the field in the playoffs. 3 significant red flags in my book. Definitely plays a part in his team's postseason shortcomings. I'd take him on the Bulls to play with Derrick. But I still wouldn't have parted with Deng and Noah and picks to get him.

[chitownsalesmen]

Have a difference of opinion with GMorgan ; get told by GMorgan what you have and haven't seen.

You and TylerB have a prophetic vision, if only we could all be as intelligent and knowledgeable as you Morg.

Watching regularly NBA basketball for 28-29 years has it's advantages ... Once you get in that position, you will understand what I am talking about ...

thats kwel.