Would the Bulls 'reset' and trade Jimmy Butler this offseason ? What would Celtics need to give you?

ralphisBullsFan · Post #241 » by **ralphisBullsFan** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:15 am

DONE DEAL!

jimmy_smith · Post #242 » by **jimmy_smith** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:53 am

ralphisBullsFan wrote:DONE DEAL!

No

realEAST · Post #243 » by **realEAST** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:45 am

I think they should be given another season, one before which team goes through offseason properly, all the players being healthy (need to shut Jimmy down now in this case) and being coached into Hoiberg system (if there is one, but there seems to be some order when they want to). Also, put together better balanced team altogether (one good pick and FA signing is all it takes in short term) and see who could be part of future.
This is risky scenario considering Derrick, since if he doesn't work out, he's gone for nothing, and still could have some value this summer.
Problem is, for me, it's hard to assess his value at the moment, just don't know what could be expected in return.
Here are some ideas, tell me if they are far off, and in which direction
Payton, 2nd rounder, (Deadomond?)
Hill/Ellis, 1st rounder
Noel, OKC or MIA pick
Grant, 2017 1st

But all this seems very optimistic to me (besides NYK deal)

musiqsoulchild · Post #244 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:03 pm

Butler is MOST definitely a #1. Why?

1) He's efficient - and he scores heavy. 20 PPG on high efficiency is gold.
2) He is a very capable defender
3) He's clutch
4) His efficiency comes from going to the free throw line - which is also a very good trait.
5) He doesnt make super max money - so you can fit better pieces around him.
6) He WANTS to be a leader. Even if his efforts are misguided - I always prefer to build around someone who wants to wear the crown of thorns.
7) He has a soul that translates to TV and he will not think twice before making a call to a free agent to come join him. It will not be a text message - that much is for sure.

He doesnt work as a #1 in Chicago - because our organization has pitched its tent in Team Rose's side. As terrible a decision as that it, I can see why they did it.

But lets not sully Jimmy here - he's a true #1 for a team that wants to create a winning environment.

Nikola · Post #245 » by **Nikola** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:17 pm

realEAST wrote:I think they should be given another season, one before which team goes through offseason properly, all the players being healthy (need to shut Jimmy down now in this case) and being coached into Hoiberg system (if there is one, but there seems to be some order when they want to). Also, put together better balanced team altogether (one good pick and FA signing is all it takes in short term) and see who could be part of future.
This is risky scenario considering Derrick, since if he doesn't work out, he's gone for nothing, and still could have some value this summer.
Problem is, for me, it's hard to assess his value at the moment, just don't know what could be expected in return.
Here are some ideas, tell me if they are far off, and in which direction
Payton, 2nd rounder, (Deadomond?)
Hill/Ellis, 1st rounder
Noel, OKC or MIA pick
Grant, 2017 1st

But all this seems very optimistic to me (besides NYK deal)

I would do the middle 2 and not the first or last, so I don't think you are far off. Somewhere in between. I don't consider Payton to have much value, I think Orlando has already determined he is not starter material.

DarthDiggler69 · Post #246 » by **DarthDiggler69** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:35 pm

Trade him to the West. I like what Boston has but I dont want to see Butler on one of our Eastern Competitors. But if they do Id do a Crowder and two first rounders(Nets pick) for Butler(and throw in our first rounder if they demand it).

I'd prefer to send him out to the Lakers for DeAngelo 'Snitch' Russell and their lottery pick (top 3)if Lakers bite on that. Other than in the locker room, Russell is starting to get it

I like Jimmy, hes been a good soldier as of late but the whole season hes been showing some signs he could be a problem later on

TheStig · Post #247 » by **TheStig** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:39 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:Butler is MOST definitely a #1. Why?

1) He's efficient - and he scores heavy. 20 PPG on high efficiency is gold.
2) He is a very capable defender
3) He's clutch
4) His efficiency comes from going to the free throw line - which is also a very good trait.
5) He doesnt make super max money - so you can fit better pieces around him.
6) He WANTS to be a leader. Even if his efforts are misguided - I always prefer to build around someone who wants to wear the crown of thorns.
7) He has a soul that translates to TV and he will not think twice before making a call to a free agent to come join him. It will not be a text message - that much is for sure.

He doesnt work as a #1 in Chicago - because our organization has pitched its tent in Team Rose's side. As terrible a decision as that it, I can see why they did it.

But lets not sully Jimmy here - he's a true #1 for a team that wants to create a winning environment.

I don't know that they've pitched their tent to Team Rose as much as its a divided locker room. It seems like the guys that have been on this team for awhile like Rose, Gibson and Noah all fall on one side and guys like Pau and Jimmy on another.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the roster. If they dump Rose on Brooklyn, NY or LAL then it will clearly be team Jimmy. Which I think is the future.

I really like Jimmy but I don't think this team can contend during his prime. I would look into blowing it up if you can get a can't say no offer. This year would have been optimal since it doesn't look like we will make the playoffs.

Red Larrivee · Post #248 » by **Red Larrivee** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:08 pm

Crowder, Smart and the Nets pick for Butler doesn't even work under the CBA. If it did, that would be a dirt cheap price to acquire a prime all-star shooting guard.

It's only a decent deal if the Brooklyn pick ends up as a Top 2 pick.

dice · Post #249 » by **dice** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:10 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:Crowder, Smart and the Nets pick for Butler doesn't even work under the CBA. If it did, that would be a dirt cheap price to acquire a prime all-star shooting guard.

It's only a decent deal if the Brooklyn pick ends up as a Top 2 pick.

there's no way we would get crowder (on a fantastic deal) and a top 2 for butler. even crowder straight up for butler would be a bad deal for the celtics

Shill · Post #250 » by **Shill** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:18 pm

dice wrote:even crowder straight up for butler would be a bad deal for the celtics

nomorezorro · Post #251 » by **nomorezorro** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:30 pm

dice...my dude...you've gone too far this time

dice · Post #252 » by **dice** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:58 pm

nomorezorro wrote:dice...my dude...you've gone too far this time

crowder's on a better deal than butler :dontknow:

would you rather have crowder and $10 mil in cap space or jimmy butler?

Post #253 » by **Rerisen** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:04 am

dice wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:dice...my dude...you've gone too far this time

crowder's on a better deal than butler

would you rather have crowder and $10 mil in cap space or jimmy butler?

Depends how much you're owner is willing to spend really. If it's a lot then the difference might amount to peanuts.

At the end of the day a team is going to need real stars to be a serious contender, no matter how good of value deals you have in a roster, a team of musketeers with no All-Stars is unlikely to ever win.

Even though Crowder is a great deal, Butler will also be a good deal in the new CBA environment, perhaps better than what they can spend the 10m on in Free Agency anyway, which will likely be overpays. Let's say Boston wants a Batum or Barnes type, its going to take more than Butler is making and to get a worse player.

ADDinChicago · Post #254 » by **ADDinChicago** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:12 am

Watching Butler since his latest return and the way he acts and comports himself even more diva like as time goes on, give me 2 potential all-star caliber type players and 2 protected 1st rounders and I'll drive him to O'Hare. Even better if the Bulls could include McDermott or Snell to go with him.

chrispatrick · Post #255 » by **chrispatrick** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:15 am

dice wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:dice...my dude...you've gone too far this time

crowder's on a better deal than butler

would you rather have crowder and $10 mil in cap space or jimmy butler?

Jimmy Butler... easily. What is $10 million in FA buying you these days?

rtblues · Post #256 » by **rtblues** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:25 am

I would not be in a hurry to trade such an excellent two-way player and high-character guy. It's unlikely that any trade is going to bring this back in return. In-fact, only looking at Celtics roster, there's not much there that equals "Jimmy", which leaves the hopes and dreams of possible draft gold, another maybe. especially with their draft picks historically, and no absolute guarantee of the #1 pick, so, no...
Just my opinion, but for me Jimmy is on a very, very short list of guys I keep. And I mean very, very short...
Oh, and Hoiberg, he didn't make my very, very short list. I'd much sooner lose Hoiberg than Jimmy...

dice · Post #257 » by **dice** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:30 am

chrispatrick wrote:
dice wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:dice...my dude...you've gone too far this time

crowder's on a better deal than butler

would you rather have crowder and $10 mil in cap space or jimmy butler?

Jimmy Butler... easily. What is $10 million in FA buying you these days?

at least the difference between crowder and butler

i don't think there's any appreciation for how good jae crowder has become. jae's pretty much a poor man's jimmy now. and given that it's his first year as starter he might yet have more upside

Chi town · Post #258 » by **Chi town** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:04 am

What's not being talked about is how Jiimys game will age. IMO I don't think it will well. His DWade type attacking will take its toll and cause him to miss more games.

Smart, Crowder, and Dunn for Jimmy would be solid. Replacing Jimmy w competitive winners would really help us.

Maybe the Lakers would take Rose and BKN pick for Russell.

Russell Smart
Dougie Smart
Crowder

Spend your money on defensive bigs. Russell is going to be a perennial all star IMO.

robbie84 · Post #259 » by **robbie84** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:04 am

As a Celtics fan I can't see Ainge including Crowder in any deal for Butler.
The whole point of acquiring Butler would be to pair him with Crowder and make the toughest/grittiest 2/3 combo possible to take on Golden State.

So Crowder is probably a deal breaker.
He might give an extra few picks to avoid including Crowder.
Do the Bulls really want Crowder if they are rebuilding?

MrSparkle · Post #260 » by **MrSparkle** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:36 am

What has this thread derailed into?

First off, Crowder can't hold a candle to Jimmy's scoring. We're talking 2x all-star, no. 1 scoring option and 3 good playoff performances vs. a defensive role-player. Let's lay the pipe down.

Second, if he gets a top-3 pick, IMO Ainge will save it for a big fish. i.e. Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis, Cousins, etc. I expect him to get a legit big man, and a wing second. Durant via free agency would trump that. I don't believe he'd burn the pick on Jimmy. He can get Jimmy by throwing some cap-savings and uncertain future picks at GarDorf.

Third, the knee injury is more serious than we're being told. He has lost a lot of his quickness. I think he'll be fine after the summer of treatment and rest, but judging his performance based on post-"hyperextended knee" injury is ridiculous. He was a top-5 wing before then, arguably top-3. Since it's been re-confirmed there's no structural damage, I'm expecting him to come back in top form next fall.