The Zach Lavine Problem

[bennjuiced34]

Don't get me wrong. I'm pumped that we got him. He has a ridiculous ceiling offensively. Just curious if he truly has 2-way potential. If so, he's a super star.

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[BullsFTW]

Zach LaVine getting traded reminds me a bit of James Harden getting traded to Houston. Off course the difference is OKC was coming off a Finals appearance. However, just like Harden, LaVine was a part of a young and talented Big 3. Harden made the jump to stardom the following season in Houston as the man. I'm hoping LaVine is the same.

[GimmeDat]

I gotta say, it's really encouraging just how much Wolves fans have been talking him up post-trade.

Obviously he's a guy I've loved for a long time, he was the #1 guy I wanted over Doug in 2014, but the question is, can he go from an efficient, high flying Jamal Crawford, to an actual star? From the sounds of it, a lot of Wolves fans are confident that he could.

I do also think he'll bounce back from this injury strongly.

Man, I'd be stoked for a high flying Jamal Crawford. But that's me.

Biggest question I have...offensive numbers look good. So why was his team better when he was off the court?

Why was he not impacting the game in other areas? Youth? Inexperience? 1-dimensional focus?

Because he's not lazy. But for a kid with his physical tools, he should do more than just score, right? Unless that part of his game is still developing.

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He's got a great work ethic from all reports - he's known as a certified gym rat. That said, he's talents lie mainly in scoring the ball, he doesn't really impact the game massively in other areas, like a guy like Jimmy obviously does.

I'm not sure what factors led him to be a below average defender, I'll ask the Wolves board.

But in terms of that high flying JCraw, I think he's already at that point. He's already a better scorer and way more efficient, and has similar creation abilities off the dribble; though his handle isn't as fancy, he's a super smooth shooter off the dribble.

[bennjuiced34]

I gotta say, it's really encouraging just how much Wolves fans have been talking him up post-trade.

Obviously he's a guy I've loved for a long time, he was the #1 guy I wanted over Doug in 2014, but the question is, can he go from an efficient, high flying Jamal Crawford, to an actual star? From the sounds of it, a lot of Wolves fans are confident that he could.

I do also think he'll bounce back from this injury strongly.

Man, I'd be stoked for a high flying Jamal Crawford. But that's me.

Biggest question I have...offensive numbers look good. So why was his team better when he was off the court?

Why was he not impacting the game in other areas? Youth? Inexperience? 1-dimensional focus?

Because he's not lazy. But for a kid with his physical tools, he should do more than just score, right? Unless that part of his game is still developing.

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He's got a great work ethic from all reports - he's known as a certified gym rat. That said, he's talents lie mainly in scoring the ball, he doesn't really impact the game massively in other areas, like a guy like Jimmy obviously does.

I'm not sure what factors led him to be a below average defender, I'll ask the Wolves board.

But in terms of that high flying JCraw, I think he's already at that point. He's already a better scorer and way more efficient, and has similar creation abilities off the dribble; though his handle isn't as fancy, he's a super smooth shooter off the dribble.

You'd just like to have seen parts of his game grow in 3 years outside scoring. To at least get a baseline. We don't have that unfortunately.

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[bennjuiced34]

Zach LaVine getting traded reminds me a bit of James Harden getting traded to Houston. Off course the difference is OKC was coming off a Finals appearance. However, just like Harden, LaVine was a part of a young and talented Big 3. Harden made the jump to stardom the following season in Houston as the man. I'm hoping LaVine is the same.

My issue with that projection is LaVine and Harden are 2 different offensive players.

Harden is a primary balk handler and scorer. And flashed that ability at OKC.

LaVine, up to this point, is a scorer.

I have no doubt that LaVine could easily become a 25+ ppg scorer in a primary role. But can he also run an offense, facilitate and playmake?

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[GimmeDat]

Asked the Wolves board, apparently tries hard on D but just has really bad awareness. I don't think he'll ever make great strides on that end.

Sounds like he has some more potential as a creator for others than he's shown, though.

[NewEra21]

Checking his stats he was averaging 5 assists a game per 36 his rookie year. Went down to 4 his sophomore year and down to 3 this past year. Not something that's very encouraging. Just looking at his stats all hes really improved on is scoring efficiency a tad. Everything else is neutral or in the case of assists has gone down. And its obvious his defense hasn't improved either.

He may be a gym rat, but if its just to increase his scoring it doesn't really do us any good. He always struck me as the guy who would eventually be a 25+ ppg game scorer but never be a winner cuz he didnt focus hard enough on the other aspects of his game. So far in his 3 years he's kind of proven that to be true.

[sh0ck]

Zach LaVine getting traded reminds me a bit of James Harden getting traded to Houston. Off course the difference is OKC was coming off a Finals appearance. However, just like Harden, LaVine was a part of a young and talented Big 3. Harden made the jump to stardom the following season in Houston as the man. I'm hoping LaVine is the same.

Biggest difference to me is his torn ACL

[Worm Guts]

Checking his stats he was averaging 5 assists a game per 36 his rookie year. Went down to 4 his sophomore year and down to 3 this past year. Not something that's very encouraging. Just looking at his stats all hes really improved on is scoring efficiency a tad. Everything else is neutral or in the case of assists has gone down. And its obvious his defense hasn't improved either.

He may be a gym rat, but if its just to increase his scoring it doesn't really do us any good. He always struck me as the guy who would eventually be a 25+ ppg game scorer but never be a winner cuz he didnt focus hard enough on the other aspects of his game. So far in his 3 years he's kind of proven that to be true.

He spent the majority of his time at PG as a rookie, and half of his 2nd year. He really shouldn't play any PG, but as others have said he does have special potential as a scorer. Someone who can get a shot any time he wants.

[laxmosher1]

Checking his stats he was averaging 5 assists a game per 36 his rookie year. Went down to 4 his sophomore year and down to 3 this past year. Not something that's very encouraging. Just looking at his stats all hes really improved on is scoring efficiency a tad. Everything else is neutral or in the case of assists has gone down. And its obvious his defense hasn't improved either.

Someone else posted his minutes per position and in his first year he played primarily at PG and those minutes went to SG primarily more and more which contributed to his assist numbers declining.

[kingkirk]

Zach LaVine getting traded reminds me a bit of James Harden getting traded to Houston. Off course the difference is OKC was coming off a Finals appearance. However, just like Harden, LaVine was a part of a young and talented Big 3. Harden made the jump to stardom the following season in Houston as the man. I'm hoping LaVine is the same.

LaVine definitely does not have the playmaking and ballhandling abilities that Harden does. He can’t really create offense for anyone else, so in that sense, he won’t be like Harden.

When he tried playing point guard and running an offense, it failed pretty miserably.

[Just_Bullz]

There's no point in trying to force him to play PG when we have a slew of them.

Just let him improve his defense and we are good. It's about playing to one's strength and trying to fix issue that can be mitigated rather than revamping the role he's supposed to be good at which is SG.

[ptpablo]

Lavine is the most bona fide talent we got in return for Jimmy (health willing), however I would argue that he is not the type of guy you want to jump start a multi-year rebuild.

This is because he only has 1 year left on his contract. If he's going to be a part of this rebuild, we are going to have to pay him A LOT of money which greatly diminishes his value. When building a new core, the last thing you want to be doing is handing out expensive deals to non-max players. Those are almost always the worst value contracts in the NBA. Very rarely do the contributions of such players exceed their cost.

Will Lavine blossom into a max player?

Even if not, will he receive a max contract anyway a la Harrison Barnes?

Would we have been better off getting future draft picks that would line up better with our lotto picks to come?

GarPax are genius. This is in line with throwing in the 16 pick and selling pick 38.

They are visionaries who started a rebuild without valuing picks or the window where you collect a bunch of picks and then spend in FA during those pick's rookie contract years. All rebuilding teams do that, right? Not the Bulls! GarPax are zigging when other teams zag!

RFA just traded for to start the rebuild set the tone for good team ball, making them prove their salary, the 3.5M will help cover the costs of having two GMs, and who needs the 16th best player in a draft that you declare a rebuild by trading your best player? That is just more salary on the books, especially when there is an un-athletic 30 year old in free agency.

What bold move is coming next? I say middle age non-athletic signings only for this summer. These guys find the market deficiencies and strike!

Gar Forman has jacked this up for all of us.


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[BullsFTW]

Zach LaVine getting traded reminds me a bit of James Harden getting traded to Houston. Off course the difference is OKC was coming off a Finals appearance. However, just like Harden, LaVine was a part of a young and talented Big 3. Harden made the jump to stardom the following season in Houston as the man. I'm hoping LaVine is the same.

LaVine definitely does not have the playmaking and ballhandling abilities that Harden does. He can’t really create offense for anyone else, so in that sense, he won’t be like Harden.

When he tried playing point guard and running an offense, it failed pretty miserably.

I wasn't comparing LaVine and Harden skill wise. I was comparing there situation. Harden blossomed into an alpha dog when he was given the keys to the team. I see the same way with LaVine.

As far as LaVine's playmaking abilities are concerned, he needs to make improvements to be in the same caliber as Harden. He does have experience playing the PG position, but he's definitely a two-guard.

[PlayerUp]

Too much hate for Lavine. We bought potentially low on him. Same with Dunn. Took a risk. If it doesn't work, so be it. Teams focus should be getting an Alpha Top 5 Player. That will have to be done through the draft.

For Lavine, getting him away from Wiggins/Towns maybe best thing for him. Can focus as the #1 option. He's already efficient enough on offense. Now increasing his volume is the next step. Him scoring 25+ PPG isn't unrealistic in the future if he can fully recover from this ACL.

[Ralphb07]

Zach LaVine getting traded reminds me a bit of James Harden getting traded to Houston. Off course the difference is OKC was coming off a Finals appearance. However, just like Harden, LaVine was a part of a young and talented Big 3. Harden made the jump to stardom the following season in Houston as the man. I'm hoping LaVine is the same.

LaVine definitely does not have the playmaking and ballhandling abilities that Harden does. He can’t really create offense for anyone else, so in that sense, he won’t be like Harden.

When he tried playing point guard and running an offense, it failed pretty miserably.

I don't think the poster meant style wise but rather taking the next step up level wise.

[kingkirk]

Even then, there's no way I see LaVine shooting up to the level of Harden. He's too limited offensively to be considered a top 10-15 player, or even a top 3-4 shooting guard.

He can score and shoot the ball but he has nothing else to his game. You need to have more if you're going to make that kind of leap.

[Leslie Forman]

He's really less Jamal Crawford and more like Klay Thompson without the defense. Their third-year stats were pretty much identical. LaVine's shots were actually less assisted than Thompson's, even though he was more efficient. Klay showed more signs of becoming a good defender, though.

The problem is the injuries. People just assume that everyone comes back fine from knee injuries now but just look at Eric Gordon. He was never the same after just one bad knee injury.

[Proven_Winner]

Zach LaVine getting traded reminds me a bit of James Harden getting traded to Houston. Off course the difference is OKC was coming off a Finals appearance. However, just like Harden, LaVine was a part of a young and talented Big 3. Harden made the jump to stardom the following season in Houston as the man. I'm hoping LaVine is the same.

You're right although I think harden was way better than lavine when he left OKC. I think everyone knew harden was playing the ginobili role.

[vvgotgame19]

Outside of the ACL concerns, it's blowing my mind how anyone can put a ceiling on a 22 year old, uber athletic, already proven shooter/scorer, gym rat.

He's got holes in his game, yes. But the things you can't teach like youth, athleticism, shot creation and internal hard work, are there. Plus he already has a jumper. The holes in his game are fillable. I'm not seeing a limit on how good he can be.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we have a surefire star on our hands or anything, I'm simply saying we have absolutely no idea how good this kid will turn out. He hasn't been in a situation like this where he'll be the focal point, he's been 3rd banana his entire career so we don't really know how he'll respond. He could flop completely, stay the same player or really blow up ala James Harden. We don't know. I'm intrigued to find out tho.