PG: Can't stop, won't stop

[Polynice4Pippen]

Anyone who complained about the Bulls being "unwatchable" is not allowed to complain about the 4 game win streak.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1644470

Oh make no mistake, the Bulls are much more watchable lately, I've watched more in the last 2 weeks than all the time prior.

That still doesn't mean the wins are good for this team's long term future or shouldn't be complained about.

Because the long term goal is not to 'enjoy' the wins of a ~25 win team or something, but to eventually build a real contender. For that you need elite talents. Easiest place to get them is the draft, and for that you need top picks.

I know people want to say well hey the kids are developing, but sorry none of them look like elite talents so far.

Lauri hasn't even been playing for half of them, the wins have more to do with Niko, Portis, Nwaba.

Dunn is contributing, but certainly not at some phenom level.

Simple as that. No one should be satisfied until we're back winning 50 plus games and getting past the 1st round of the playoffs like we were before firing the previous coach.

[Stratmaster]

So, does Niko start over Lauri?

Of course. Her is the better player... for now.

[WindyCityBorn]

Especially if you are going to keep players like RoLo and Niko.

So what did your want for Butler? Or did you just want to keep him?

If we assume that no one will part with a young piece with superstar potential,then future picks are the ideal form of compensation.

Someone like Zach Lavine (expiring contract, lacks star potential) is the exact opposite of the type of assets that should have been sought.

LaVine has star potential. You just refuse to see it. Now quote me some meaningless +/- and tell me how he will never learn how or play defense.

[madvillian]

stop this madness. There's no "overdue for variance" (casino would love you) --it's probability. You. want. the. best. odds. And, most critically, the worst record cannot fall below 4 AND has an almost 50% chance of being top 2.

That's what you have to know. No **** "the worst record doesn't usually get the 1st pick" -- it's 24% odds. So 1/4. Tell us something we don't know.

You want to suck. You DO NOT want to be around 5 or 6. 4 would be bad enough. We need to suck, bottom three at absolute worst.

Maybe they want Hinrich over Wade again.

Yay, lets do the whole 'scrapper' team again for 5 years. Not much point to have blown it up for that.

If GarPax have any gray matter, they will get Niko outta here soon.

I'm frustrated with the wins but I'm also ecstatic at how the guys look. Is what it is. We'll see how it plays out. They need to make the trades that are there to make before things get too out of hand (if they do at all).

Niko is balling, there's no way a club like Portland or half a dozen other teams needing a stretch 4 that can score in bunches couldn't use him. Get a 1st rounder for him, hopefully closer to 15 than 30 on odds, and move on. If he blows up he blows up. I'll take the odds he's only a solid starter or just below all-star level going forward. And it could just be a fluke. So sell high.

[Shill]

There are no guarantees to a rebuild. You're trying to give yourself as much slack as possible. Draft picks allow you to be flexible and adaptable because it's kind of like having liquid currency.

When you trade for roster players, the clock immediately starts ticking because of their contract. And as I said their success takes away lotto balls.

Hinkie identified the optimal approach to asset management for a rebuilding NBA team trying to actually become a contender. His rebuild looks nothing like what we'll get. This doesn't bode well.

Hinkie also had the benefit of Embiid missing 2.5 years and Simmons missing 1.

That was an unintended boon for the tank.

[johnnyvann840]

Winning can be a funny thing. It's like a snowball.. when a group starts winning they build confidence in themselves and their teammates. It's contagious. A young group like this starts thinking they can beat anybody and by the end of the season maybe they will able to. We don't know what they're capable of.

[Shill]

It seems like people are mad at the Bulls for making trades that weren’t even available.

[AhUtopian]

Without Bobby punching Niko we are a 82-0 team Lol

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[johnnyvann840]

There are no guarantees to a rebuild. You're trying to give yourself as much slack as possible. Draft picks allow you to be flexible and adaptable because it's kind of like having liquid currency.

When you trade for roster players, the clock immediately starts ticking because of their contract. And as I said their success takes away lotto balls.

Hinkie identified the optimal approach to asset management for a rebuilding NBA team trying to actually become a contender. His rebuild looks nothing like what we'll get. This doesn't bode well.

Hinkie also had the benefit of Embiid missing 2.5 years and Simmons missing 1.

That was an unintended boon for the tank.

Not so sure about that. I think it was intentional. Not the injuries but the holding them out when they were healthy... doing the same thing with Fultz this season already. It's BS and should be penalized. They should be stripped of their next 1st round pick. and it should go to the Bulls.lol

[Chi town]

Keep Niko. He is a different player. I can see it. Just like when Jimmy busted out. He's just got a look about him that's different. A mojo workin.

There is no such thing as an all young great team. You need veterans and Niko is the perfect age for this group, not too old. Niko has a game that will age gracefully too. He's the one you keep. He's a two way player and he would also be good help when we bring in European players. Having a Euro vet is big.

Agreed. I think him and Lauri can play together too.

[AKfanatic]

The Bulls won and did so in an entertaining way, enjoy it.

Hating wins because of their effect on an unknown future, which some may not be here to see, is pointless.

[madvillian]

Winning can be a funny thing. It's like a snowball.. when a group starts winning they build confidence in themselves and their teammates. It's contagious. A young group like this starts thinking they can beat anybody and by the end of the season maybe they will able to. We don't know what they're capable of.

this is def true in basketball especially. Right now the Bulls are playing more than the sum of the parts. You know who gets credit for that: Fred.

Granted the schedule has been easy, but we've all seen it, this team is actually playing some competitive basketball and it started long before the wins showed up.

Those cries of "culture" and "historically bad" haven't aged too well lately.

[Shill]

Not so sure about that. I think it was intentional.

Wait, so Embiid and Simmons were faking surgeries?

[Rerisen]

stop this madness. There's no "overdue for variance" (casino would love you) --it's probability. You. want. the. best. odds. And, most critically, the worst record cannot fall below 4 AND has an almost 50% chance of being top 2.

That's what you have to know. No **** "the worst record doesn't usually get the 1st pick" -- it's 24% odds. So 1/4. Tell us something we don't know.

You want to suck. You DO NOT want to be around 5 or 6. 4 would be bad enough. We need to suck, bottom three at absolute worst.

Maybe they want Hinrich over Wade again.

Yay, lets do the whole 'scrapper' team again for 5 years. Not much point to have blown it up for that.

If GarPax have any gray matter, they will get Niko outta here soon.

Wade was drafted before Hinrich.

That's the whole point, if we had a better pick we could have taken Wade straight away.

Meaning, its silly to defend these wins as if they are good.

I'd rather have Wade - and be the worst team in the league when I get him - than have 3 or 4 Hinrichs that start helping you win too soon.

[Jvaughn]

If their plan is anything other than getting a top pick, then that just leads back to my original point: they have to go. They can't contend, so if we're not tanking, then their goal is basketball hell. Sitting outside the playoffs drafting talent that isn't good enough to change their position.

Ayup. Anyone that wanted to blow it up, who is now happy we've won 4 straight.... just mind-boggling.

Maybe some people thought they actually came out better long term with the players they got for Jimmy. It's mind boggling that people are mad the young guys are winning. I'd rather this than getting Cam Payne players for Jimmy

It's fine to be happy with our return, and want our young players to excel, but Niko and Bobby leading this team to mediocre levels isn't really the goal. If Dunn, Lavine, and Markenen are showing they can lead this team to 30 wins, then you know the tank is over and it's time to start surrounding them with difference makers.

[the ultimates]

The revisionist history and moving of goalposts is hilarious. We all know when you trade a star/superstar player you don't get equal value back. You get some combination of young upside players you like (the players the board has doggedly wanted the front office to get)and picks. The Bulls got that in the Butler trade and many people here torched the deal. Dunn too old terrible rookie year. Lavine hurt, net negative player. DSJ should have been picked over Lauri. Now in less than 30 games it's they got too much or too much for a team that should be tanking.

[Red Larrivee]

There are no guarantees to a rebuild. You're trying to give yourself as much slack as possible. Draft picks allow you to be flexible and adaptable because it's kind of like having liquid currency.

When you trade for roster players, the clock immediately starts ticking because of their contract. And as I said their success takes away lotto balls.

Hinkie identified the optimal approach to asset management for a rebuilding NBA team trying to actually become a contender. His rebuild looks nothing like what we'll get. This doesn't bode well.

The clock starts on any rookie you draft, especially one who might take the Derrick Rose path and quickly become a superstar. Imagine if Rose in Year 3 was playing with players younger than him, because of a roster that was demolished Hinkie-style. It would've been a waste of his peak season as a star and you would've got nothing out of it long-term. And if Rose was healthy enough to have extended success, he may have decided to leave before it all came together.

What Hinkie did is an exaggeration of tanking that isn't necessary. It's why the league stepped in and we have him to blame for the new draft lottery odds. The Bulls gave themselves as much slack as possible. They traded their best player, who was clearly the difference between a borderline playoff team and one of the worst teams in the league. They built a roster of inexperienced players, who started the year 3-20.

[Derk77]

woooot

[bulls4ever]

niko invictus!!!

[Chi town]

Like Niko, right?

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Is Mirotic coming back from major knee surgery?

I thought you were talking about rust Red. Rust is from not playing. Niko hasn't even scrimmaged since last season. Lavine a bit longer... but still...

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Anyone who thinks LaVine will be rusty is crazy. He will be playing full on for months before he sees game action. I anticipate he comes out hot playing for that max contract.