NBA Trade Thread #2

Chicagoat · Post #241 » by **Chicagoat** » Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:37 am

I personally can't see the same core of Lauri, Carter Jr, White, LaVine, and Otto making it on opening night. At least one of them will be gone. All of the compliments by AK and Eversley is just fluff and all new regimes do the same song and dance before they trade those same players that they compliment.

There are no untouchables on this roster, NONE. AK and Eversley could stay pat to give the young core more time to prove themselves. But the new regimes does not hold any special feelings for this roster. I am not arguing a trade for the sake of making a move. But if it improves our ceiling as a team for long lasting success, it will happen

gobullschi · Post #242 » by **gobullschi** » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:03 am

Chicagoat wrote:I personally can't see the same core of Lauri, Carter Jr, White, LaVine, and Otto making it on opening night. At least one of them will be gone. All of the compliments by AK and Eversley is just fluff and all new regimes do the same song and dance before they trade those same players that they compliment.

There are no untouchables on this roster, NONE. AK and Eversley could stay pat to give the young core more time to prove themselves. But the new regimes does not hold any special feelings for this roster. I am not arguing a trade for the sake of making a move. But if it improves our ceiling as a team for long lasting success, it will happen

I can't see him making a big move because he hasn't been allowed near the team up until recently. I could see AK being active near the all-star break, but COVID is an obstacle that we can't ignore.

drosereturn · Post #243 » by **drosereturn** » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:12 am

gobullschi wrote:
Chicagoat wrote:I personally can't see the same core of Lauri, Carter Jr, White, LaVine, and Otto making it on opening night. At least one of them will be gone. All of the compliments by AK and Eversley is just fluff and all new regimes do the same song and dance before they trade those same players that they compliment.

There are no untouchables on this roster, NONE. AK and Eversley could stay pat to give the young core more time to prove themselves. But the new regimes does not hold any special feelings for this roster. I am not arguing a trade for the sake of making a move. But if it improves our ceiling as a team for long lasting success, it will happen

I can't see him making a big move because he hasn't been allowed near the team up until recently. I could see AK being active near the all-star break, but COVID is an obstacle that we can't ignore.

How is it even possible to make a move before opening night when mgt praised everyone of them especially Lauri for being a unicorn and Wendell for one of the most coveted recruits? Even though I want one of them gone moving guys even before trying it out would not look good in FA. Nobody wants to experiment with this crap roster for a full season, so I would like to see how each guy performs well in the first 10 games given equal opportunity and maybe evaluate from there.To think about keeping the core going 6-4 is minimum to prove they are playoff caliber and improving game by game before cutting the weak link one by one.

Post #244 » by **GimmeDat** » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:27 am

TheSuzerain wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:I'd probably give up on AK/Eversley tomorrow if we traded away White and WCJ for 2. That would be catastrophic. Now if we did that in 2021, and someone like Cade Cunningham was available, then I'd do it.

Catastrophic? Are you **** me?

TheSuzerain wrote:Oh god what will we do without a solid center and mediocre scoring guard! It's a catastrophe!

Might need to check your tone, Suze.

And yes, I am serious. WCJ and Coby are our two best young pieces right now. There are no outstanding prospects at 2.

wonderboy2 · Post #245 » by **wonderboy2** » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:14 am

GimmeDat wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:I'd probably give up on AK/Eversley tomorrow if we traded away White and WCJ for 2. That would be catastrophic. Now if we did that in 2021, and someone like Cade Cunningham was available, then I'd do it.

Catastrophic? Are you **** me?

TheSuzerain wrote:Oh god what will we do without a solid center and mediocre scoring guard! It's a catastrophe!

Might need to check your tone, Suze.

And yes, I am serious. WCJ and Coby are our two best young pieces right now. There are no outstanding prospects at 2.

Pretty obvious. I think Coby would go ahead of Hayes and Haliburton in this draft. Carter would go ahead of Okongwu.

Onibuh · Post #246 » by **Onibuh** » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:52 am

PlayerUp wrote:
Little Nathan wrote:
Onibuh wrote:What would it take to get Rose? It would work in my mind and adding him would make the offense less predictable.

2 second rounders + filler maybe? Doubt the Pistons will get a first for him, but they will certainly try.

I wouldn't be interested in giving up any future assets for Rose, but I think it would really easy to get him.

Just wait until he is a free agent and bring him back.

I'd want him for next season with his cheap contract. Not waiting for a year to watch him joining a contending team.
I doubt we get a floor general, that's why I think Rose is the guy to go after. Easier to get, cheaper contract and would help the team.

TheSuzerain · Post #247 » by **TheSuzerain** » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:19 pm

GimmeDat wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:I'd probably give up on AK/Eversley tomorrow if we traded away White and WCJ for 2. That would be catastrophic. Now if we did that in 2021, and someone like Cade Cunningham was available, then I'd do it.

Catastrophic? Are you **** me?

TheSuzerain wrote:Oh god what will we do without a solid center and mediocre scoring guard! It's a catastrophe!

Might need to check your tone, Suze.

And yes, I am serious. WCJ and Coby are our two best young pieces right now. There are no outstanding prospects at 2.

We'd be trading no assets that warrant an outstanding prospect.

WCJ has basically no star upside at this point. He's a good piece and probably is our best young asset. But trading him for a prospect with actual star upside is sensible. I do think Okongwu is pretty clearly a better prospect due to higher upside.

WCJ is also one year away from being in the awkward contract extension phase that we're going through with Lauri. That could end up being uncomfortably high money if he has a decent season this year (and I mostly expect him to given health).

And the evaluation of Coby White is a definite black eye for this forum right now. He had a bad season and was among the worst volume scorers in the league. Not to mention that volume scoring on mediocre efficiency has never been less valuable than right now in the NBA (and Coby needs to shoot better to even get to mediocre efficiency). League wide offensive efficiency has reached record highs. This place really needs to recalibrate on what levels of scoring efficiency are acceptable. You'd only want to give that many possessions to a middling scorer if they excelled as a passer/playmaker to boot. Everybody has decided to blame Boylen for guys like Lauri/WCJ disappointing. The elephant in the room is that a decent amount of blame should go to our perimeter initiators who are bottom 3 in the NBA in terms of passing and IQ on the court.

I think this place just sucks at evaluating guard talent. Ball and Hayes are plainly superior to White as a prospect.

The only thing notable about White was that a player of his pedigree was actually given the keys to an NBA offense for extended periods of time. That was very odd.

Chi town · Post #248 » by **Chi town** » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:56 pm

... because every Suz projection of a pick is reality and better than what we currently have.

Objectivity please.

Chi town · Post #249 » by **Chi town** » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:58 pm

BTW... looks like Mike D will Coach Sixers and they will trade Embiid.

You know AK will be all over that. Don’t know what it would cost but I’m assuming they will attach Tobias.

Don’t know that Sixers would trade in conf w Bulls though.

kodo · Post #250 » by **kodo** » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:40 pm

I know MDA seems to be the favorite, but I'm not interpreting that as trading Embiid. I think all the trade talk is based around getting more shooters and getting rid of guys like Horford. They've apparently talked about how Embiid would fit in.

Playing-wise, Joel Embiid is said to be happy with the potential hire as he would be facing the basket more than posting up in D'Antoni's system.

D'Antoni would also move Tobias Harris back to power forward.

I agree Philly would need to trade one of Simmons or Embiid for an MDA offense to work, but Philly has been doing dumb things ever since Hinkie was fired.

Rocketswire also predicts the traded frontcourt player would be Horford, with Embiid & Harris staying.

If the D’Antoni plans to start Embiid and Tobias Harris in the frontcourt, that leaves no room for 6-foot-9 big man Al Horford — who will make $27.5 million next season. That’s a rather high price tag for a reserve.

Bulls would have no interest in Horford, I would assume.

Post #251 » by **GimmeDat** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:54 am

TheSuzerain wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:Catastrophic? Are you **** me?

TheSuzerain wrote:Oh god what will we do without a solid center and mediocre scoring guard! It's a catastrophe!

Might need to check your tone, Suze.

And yes, I am serious. WCJ and Coby are our two best young pieces right now. There are no outstanding prospects at 2.

We'd be trading no assets that warrant an outstanding prospect.

WCJ has basically no star upside at this point. He's a good piece and probably is our best young asset. But trading him for a prospect with actual star upside is sensible. I do think Okongwu is pretty clearly a better prospect due to higher upside.

WCJ is also one year away from being in the awkward contract extension phase that we're going through with Lauri. That could end up being uncomfortably high money if he has a decent season this year (and I mostly expect him to given health).

And the evaluation of Coby White is a definite black eye for this forum right now. He had a bad season and was among the worst volume scorers in the league. Not to mention that volume scoring on mediocre efficiency has never been less valuable than right now in the NBA (and Coby needs to shoot better to even get to mediocre efficiency). League wide offensive efficiency has reached record highs. This place really needs to recalibrate on what levels of scoring efficiency are acceptable. You'd only want to give that many possessions to a middling scorer if they excelled as a passer/playmaker to boot. Everybody has decided to blame Boylen for guys like Lauri/WCJ disappointing. The elephant in the room is that a decent amount of blame should go to our perimeter initiators who are bottom 3 in the NBA in terms of passing and IQ on the court.

I think this place just sucks at evaluating guard talent. Ball and Hayes are plainly superior to White as a prospect.

The only thing notable about White was that a player of his pedigree was actually given the keys to an NBA offense for extended periods of time. That was very odd.

I'm not sure how you can determine that Okongwu has significantly higher upside the Carter. There seems to be this over the top thought process that unless you're a star you're not valuable. Will Phoenix trade away Mikal Bridges because he's not a star? Wendell has already been a very good role player and has heaps of room to grow still. He's 21 and has been grossly misused under a bad coach thus far.

White did not have a bad season, come off it. I was very cynical on drafting him, not that I thought he was a bad player, but archetype-wise. You are being exceptionally critical of a ROOKIE that only turned 20 in February.. he made leaps and bounds through the season and his efficiency, on top of his volume, trended very positively as the season went on.

I'm actually on the same page with you that LaMelo and Hayes are my guys in this draft. a) I would be very surprised to see Ball not go #1, and b) you are vastly underselling the value of the pieces we'd be giving away to acquire the pick. If you want to nitpick every single flaw a 19-21 age player has in their first or second season, you're going to keep throwing them away for the next shiny new draft toy indefinitely.

Instead of telling the board that 'they suck at evaluating guard talent', try just stating your opinion.

drosereturn · Post #252 » by **drosereturn** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:28 am

GimmeDat wrote:
And yes, I am serious. WCJ and Coby are our two best young pieces right now. There are no outstanding prospects at 2.

I truly dont think WCJ and White are difference makers you keep them at all costs and getting a guy like Ball you need to sacrifice assets because Ball can easily become this yrs Luka and moving 2 spots for number 2 costs a lot in any draft.
But I can see why I would not deal White and just Carter bc he plays the least useful position and one less yr left.
Even when White was effective, he had to take 20 shots per game to be effective.
He is similar high usage guard to Lavine I dont think his playstyle meshes well with Lauri and Carter at all.

LateNight · Post #253 » by **LateNight** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:44 am

drosereturn wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:
And yes, I am serious. WCJ and Coby are our two best young pieces right now. There are no outstanding prospects at 2.

I truly dont think WCJ and White are difference makers you keep them at all costs and getting a guy like Ball you need to sacrifice assets because Ball can easily become this yrs Luka and moving 2 spots for number 2 costs a lot in any draft.

Huh.... this is weird draft. Feels very subjective. I’m not sure I think Ball will be better than either of those guys.

Obviously, I could be wrong.

Dez · Post #254 » by **Dez** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:59 am

Ball can be like Luka? F*** me.

The dude literally has one NBA level skill, passing.

Can't shoot
Can't defend
Slight frame not built for contact

TheSuzerain · Post #255 » by **TheSuzerain** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:10 am

GimmeDat wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:

Might need to check your tone, Suze.

And yes, I am serious. WCJ and Coby are our two best young pieces right now. There are no outstanding prospects at 2.

We'd be trading no assets that warrant an outstanding prospect.

WCJ has basically no star upside at this point. He's a good piece and probably is our best young asset. But trading him for a prospect with actual star upside is sensible. I do think Okongwu is pretty clearly a better prospect due to higher upside.

WCJ is also one year away from being in the awkward contract extension phase that we're going through with Lauri. That could end up being uncomfortably high money if he has a decent season this year (and I mostly expect him to given health).

And the evaluation of Coby White is a definite black eye for this forum right now. He had a bad season and was among the worst volume scorers in the league. Not to mention that volume scoring on mediocre efficiency has never been less valuable than right now in the NBA (and Coby needs to shoot better to even get to mediocre efficiency). League wide offensive efficiency has reached record highs. This place really needs to recalibrate on what levels of scoring efficiency are acceptable. You'd only want to give that many possessions to a middling scorer if they excelled as a passer/playmaker to boot. Everybody has decided to blame Boylen for guys like Lauri/WCJ disappointing. The elephant in the room is that a decent amount of blame should go to our perimeter initiators who are bottom 3 in the NBA in terms of passing and IQ on the court.

I think this place just sucks at evaluating guard talent. Ball and Hayes are plainly superior to White as a prospect.

The only thing notable about White was that a player of his pedigree was actually given the keys to an NBA offense for extended periods of time. That was very odd.

I'm not sure how you can determine that Okongwu has significantly higher upside the Carter. There seems to be this over the top thought process that unless you're a star you're not valuable. Will Phoenix trade away Mikal Bridges because he's not a star? Wendell has already been a very good role player and has heaps of room to grow still. He's 21 and has been grossly misused under a bad coach thus far.

White did not have a bad season, come off it. I was very cynical on drafting him, not that I thought he was a bad player, but archetype-wise. You are being exceptionally critical of a ROOKIE that only turned 20 in February.. he made leaps and bounds through the season and his efficiency, on top of his volume, trended very positively as the season went on.

I'm actually on the same page with you that LaMelo and Hayes are my guys in this draft. a) I would be very surprised to see Ball not go #1, and b) you are vastly underselling the value of the pieces we'd be giving away to acquire the pick. If you want to nitpick every single flaw a 19-21 age player has in their first or second season, you're going to keep throwing them away for the next shiny new draft toy indefinitely.

Instead of telling the board that 'they suck at evaluating guard talent', try just stating your opinion.

White did have a really bad season. Check any composite stat. A vast majority of rookies struggle like this. A majority of those rookies also amount to very little in the league.

Okongwu has higher upside because he's on another level athletically than Wendell. He's very similar to Bam physically. Okongwu has a chance of becoming a star-level player if his skill development hits its ceiling. That's obviously not a slam-dunk to happen, we're talking about ceilings here, but the odds are certainly greater than WCJ's odds who we know is a middling athlete by NBA standards. See ----> https://deanondraft.com/2020/08/21/2020-nba-draft-who-should-go-1/

MrSparkle · Post #256 » by **MrSparkle** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:35 am

Dez wrote:Ball can be like Luka? F*** me.

The dude literally has one NBA level skill, passing.

Can't shoot
Can't defend
Slight frame not built for contact

Yea. I feel *extremely* confident in saying LaMelo will never be anywhere close to Luka.

I feel like you're gunning more for an MPJ 'pleasant surprise' - ok the kid's potential translates, he can make high-level plays in the NBA, but he's got major defensive problems and offensive issues to work on.

Rose2Boozer · Post #257 » by **Rose2Boozer** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:55 pm

I wonder how long after Porter Jr. opts in before he can be traded for assets.

Bulls: Wiggins, 2020 & 2021 1st round picks

Warriors: Porter, Carter, 2020 1st round pick

MrSparkle · Post #258 » by **MrSparkle** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:04 pm

Rose2Boozer wrote:I wonder how long after Porter Jr. opts in before he can be traded for assets.

Bulls: Wiggins, 2020 & 2021 1st round picks

Warriors: Porter, Carter, 2020 1st round pick

Wait, our prize is getting the 2021 #30 pick and losing $35m in cap and WCJ in exchange for Wiseman or LaMelo?

Rose2Boozer · Post #259 » by **Rose2Boozer** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:18 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:I wonder how long after Porter Jr. opts in before he can be traded for assets.

Bulls: Wiggins, 2020 & 2021 1st round picks

Warriors: Porter, Carter, 2020 1st round pick

Wait, our prize is getting the 2021 #30 pick and losing $35m in cap and WCJ in exchange for Wiseman or LaMelo?

I doubt the Warriors will be that good next season. IMO, the Warriors continue to struggle and are in the last few slots or miss the playoffs full stop. When will the Bulls be in a position to truly capitalize from their cap space. I sincerely doubt next summer is the answer.

gobullschi · Post #260 » by **gobullschi** » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:25 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:I wonder how long after Porter Jr. opts in before he can be traded for assets.

Bulls: Wiggins, 2020 & 2021 1st round picks

Warriors: Porter, Carter, 2020 1st round pick

Wait, our prize is getting the 2021 #30 pick and losing $35m in cap and WCJ in exchange for Wiseman or LaMelo?

If it’s the Minnesota 2021 1st, then it’s a deal worth considering. Having 2 1sts in a stacked 2021 draft class is very appealing.

Wiseman > WCJ