Vucevic Trade Watch 2025

[sco]

As for trading. I think he stays and starts unless some contender has a starting center who suffers a season ending injury. That team not wanting to instantly reverse course and lose their way into the lottery ignores what they read here and decides a double double guy resets their approach slightly and keeps them on a playoff track. Then you have to hope they have the package to send back that is and expiring contract, some young guys on rookie deals, somebody the Bulls can buy out and a top 10-12 protected FRP in a year or two.

I don't see anyone giving a first or even a swap for Vuc without sending back a bad contract or two. I'm still rooting for a buyout at the deadline (or sooner).

[dougthonus]

I don't see anyone giving a first or even a swap for Vuc without sending back a bad contract or two. I'm still rooting for a buyout at the deadline (or sooner).

There's no way a team is sending a 1st + expiring for Vuc. If we move him for a pick, it's going to be a salary dump scenario.

[League Circles]

I don't see anyone giving a first or even a swap for Vuc without sending back a bad contract or two. I'm still rooting for a buyout at the deadline (or sooner).

There's no way a team is sending a 1st + expiring for Vuc. If we move him for a pick, it's going to be a salary dump scenario.

Idk, a strong contender that has enough useless matching salary might do it. They'll know that their #27 pick or whatever next summer projects as a G leaguer. But that's the only scenario - a really strong contender giving up their first next summer along with bad money.

[dougthonus]

Idk, a strong contender that has enough useless matching salary might do it. They'll know that their #27 pick or whatever next summer projects as a G leaguer. But that's the only scenario - a really strong contender giving up their first next summer along with bad money.

Let's say that situation happens, I'd guess any contender would rather make the same trade for Zach Collins, and if we can trade Zach Collins for a future pick we should. Probably any contender could make that same trade for many other players better than Vuc around the league too.

Vuc doesn't check any of the "role player" boxes a contender is likely to have. Usually you want versatile defenders and low volume, efficient scorers. Vuc is neither.

[League Circles]

Idk, a strong contender that has enough useless matching salary might do it. They'll know that their #27 pick or whatever next summer projects as a G leaguer. But that's the only scenario - a really strong contender giving up their first next summer along with bad money.

Let's say that situation happens, I'd guess any contender would rather make the same trade for Zach Collins, and if we can trade Zach Collins for a future pick we should. Probably any contender could make that same trade for many other players better than Vuc around the league too.

Vuc doesn't check any of the "role player" boxes a contender is likely to have. Usually you want versatile defenders and low volume, efficient scorers. Vuc is neither.

My observation is that usually that type of trade involves a contender looking to get something they believe they're critically missing. While I and maybe most others here definitely agree that Collins is a better player than Vuc, he has no outstanding strengths. Vuc, on the other hand, is probably at least perceived as a strong shooter and passer at the C position. I can more easily see a team (making the mistake of) talking themselves into Vuc (like the Bulls did twice) than saying we need a well rounded mediocre C like Collins.

FWIW though, I see very little chance that Vuc or Collins are traded until the deadline, and if they are, it will likely be for virtually zero value coming back.

[jnrjr79]

Idk, a strong contender that has enough useless matching salary might do it. They'll know that their #27 pick or whatever next summer projects as a G leaguer. But that's the only scenario - a really strong contender giving up their first next summer along with bad money.

Let's say that situation happens, I'd guess any contender would rather make the same trade for Zach Collins, and if we can trade Zach Collins for a future pick we should. Probably any contender could make that same trade for many other players better than Vuc around the league too.

Vuc doesn't check any of the "role player" boxes a contender is likely to have. Usually you want versatile defenders and low volume, efficient scorers. Vuc is neither.

My observation is that usually that type of trade involves a contender looking to get something they believe they're critically missing. While I and maybe most others here definitely agree that Collins is a better player than Vuc, he has no outstanding strengths. Vuc, on the other hand, is probably at least perceived as a strong shooter and passer at the C position. I can more easily see a team (making the mistake of) talking themselves into Vuc (like the Bulls did twice) than saying we need a well rounded mediocre C like Collins.

FWIW though, I see very little chance that Vuc or Collins are traded until the deadline, and if they are, it will likely be for virtually zero value coming back.

If a team is specifically desperate for shooting, then perhaps they'd prefer Vooch. If it's simply "my starting center got hurt and I need the best replacement I can get," presumably they'd prefer Collins.

[dougthonus]

Let's say that situation happens, I'd guess any contender would rather make the same trade for Zach Collins, and if we can trade Zach Collins for a future pick we should. Probably any contender could make that same trade for many other players better than Vuc around the league too.

Vuc doesn't check any of the "role player" boxes a contender is likely to have. Usually you want versatile defenders and low volume, efficient scorers. Vuc is neither.

My observation is that usually that type of trade involves a contender looking to get something they believe they're critically missing. While I and maybe most others here definitely agree that Collins is a better player than Vuc, he has no outstanding strengths. Vuc, on the other hand, is probably at least perceived as a strong shooter and passer at the C position. I can more easily see a team (making the mistake of) talking themselves into Vuc (like the Bulls did twice) than saying we need a well rounded mediocre C like Collins.

FWIW though, I see very little chance that Vuc or Collins are traded until the deadline, and if they are, it will likely be for virtually zero value coming back.

If a team is specifically desperate for shooting, then perhaps they'd prefer Vooch. If it's simply "my starting center got hurt and I need the best replacement I can get," presumably they'd prefer Collins.

So I'd say possible scenarios in order of most to least favorable in terms of how teams value Vuc's shooting:
1: Vuc is respected as a shooter and can consistently draw the opposing center out of the paint
2: Vuc doesn't draw the opposing center out, but shoots a high percentage and helps the offense through punishing the defense
3: Vuc can't do either

Last year, Vuc was primarily in bucket #2, two years ago he was exclusively in bucket #3, it's probably been about 4 years since he was in bucket #1 if he was ever there. For there to be any chance to trade him, I think you'd need to see him start hot as a shooter.

The flipside to this though is that because he gives you so little rim protection / ability to defend, that teams will have the option of trading for big wings and playing small at center and if those guys can shoot better, they may offer better alternatives than a real center.

[MrSparkle]

I’m 100% confident that a playoff team playing Vuc more than 20mpg has 0% odds of winning. I think the league concluded that after the lame Bucks series (and subsequent play-in losses), and that’s why Bulls have been stuck with him ever since the regrettable trade. He is easy to scheme and exploit.

I agree that no contender is interested in him. Jalen and Zach are worth more. He’s worth more to a stealth tank job, for a team that wants to be a little less blatant. Maybe Boston.

[jnrjr79]

My observation is that usually that type of trade involves a contender looking to get something they believe they're critically missing. While I and maybe most others here definitely agree that Collins is a better player than Vuc, he has no outstanding strengths. Vuc, on the other hand, is probably at least perceived as a strong shooter and passer at the C position. I can more easily see a team (making the mistake of) talking themselves into Vuc (like the Bulls did twice) than saying we need a well rounded mediocre C like Collins.

FWIW though, I see very little chance that Vuc or Collins are traded until the deadline, and if they are, it will likely be for virtually zero value coming back.

If a team is specifically desperate for shooting, then perhaps they'd prefer Vooch. If it's simply "my starting center got hurt and I need the best replacement I can get," presumably they'd prefer Collins.

So I'd say possible scenarios in order of most to least favorable in terms of how teams value Vuc's shooting:
1: Vuc is respected as a shooter and can consistently draw the opposing center out of the paint
2: Vuc doesn't draw the opposing center out, but shoots a high percentage and helps the offense through punishing the defense
3: Vuc can't do either

Last year, Vuc was primarily in bucket #2, two years ago he was exclusively in bucket #3, it's probably been about 4 years since he was in bucket #1 if he was ever there. For there to be any chance to trade him, I think you'd need to see him start hot as a shooter.

The flipside to this though is that because he gives you so little rim protection / ability to defend, that teams will have the option of trading for big wings and playing small at center and if those guys can shoot better, they may offer better alternatives than a real center.

Yeah, I think you'll need to see him at around that 40% mark for him to be anything other than a buyout guy.

[sco]

If a team is specifically desperate for shooting, then perhaps they'd prefer Vooch. If it's simply "my starting center got hurt and I need the best replacement I can get," presumably they'd prefer Collins.

So I'd say possible scenarios in order of most to least favorable in terms of how teams value Vuc's shooting:
1: Vuc is respected as a shooter and can consistently draw the opposing center out of the paint
2: Vuc doesn't draw the opposing center out, but shoots a high percentage and helps the offense through punishing the defense
3: Vuc can't do either

Last year, Vuc was primarily in bucket #2, two years ago he was exclusively in bucket #3, it's probably been about 4 years since he was in bucket #1 if he was ever there. For there to be any chance to trade him, I think you'd need to see him start hot as a shooter.

The flipside to this though is that because he gives you so little rim protection / ability to defend, that teams will have the option of trading for big wings and playing small at center and if those guys can shoot better, they may offer better alternatives than a real center.

Yeah, I think you'll need to see him at around that 40% mark for him to be anything other than a buyout guy.

I think Vuc's value, as such, is that he is an effective bumslayer. As a bumslayer, he could be used in a back-up C role where a team's bench lacks scoring...which, ironically, is true for the Bulls. But I look at teams like Denver, and others, and I could see him adding value in that role. The challenge, of course, with pretty much all of those teams is finding matching (expiring) salaries and having their need warrant giving up a 1st. Short of getting a first back, IMO, we are way better off just buying him out...ideally at enough of a discount to be able to fill the slot with a vet min player.

[jnrjr79]

So I'd say possible scenarios in order of most to least favorable in terms of how teams value Vuc's shooting:
1: Vuc is respected as a shooter and can consistently draw the opposing center out of the paint
2: Vuc doesn't draw the opposing center out, but shoots a high percentage and helps the offense through punishing the defense
3: Vuc can't do either

Last year, Vuc was primarily in bucket #2, two years ago he was exclusively in bucket #3, it's probably been about 4 years since he was in bucket #1 if he was ever there. For there to be any chance to trade him, I think you'd need to see him start hot as a shooter.

The flipside to this though is that because he gives you so little rim protection / ability to defend, that teams will have the option of trading for big wings and playing small at center and if those guys can shoot better, they may offer better alternatives than a real center.

Yeah, I think you'll need to see him at around that 40% mark for him to be anything other than a buyout guy.

I think Vuc's value, as such, is that he is an effective bumslayer. As a bumslayer, he could be used in a back-up C role where a team's bench lacks scoring...which, ironically, is true for the Bulls. But I look at teams like Denver, and others, and I could see him adding value in that role. The challenge, of course, with pretty much all of those teams is finding matching (expiring) salaries and having their need warrant giving up a 1st. Short of getting a first back, IMO, we are way better off just buying him out...ideally at enough of a discount to be able to fill the slot with a vet min player.

A buyout won't change his cap hit, just how many actual dollars the Bulls have to pay him.

[sco]

Yeah, I think you'll need to see him at around that 40% mark for him to be anything other than a buyout guy.

I think Vuc's value, as such, is that he is an effective bumslayer. As a bumslayer, he could be used in a back-up C role where a team's bench lacks scoring...which, ironically, is true for the Bulls. But I look at teams like Denver, and others, and I could see him adding value in that role. The challenge, of course, with pretty much all of those teams is finding matching (expiring) salaries and having their need warrant giving up a 1st. Short of getting a first back, IMO, we are way better off just buying him out...ideally at enough of a discount to be able to fill the slot with a vet min player.

A buyout won't change his cap hit, just how many actual dollars the Bulls have to pay him.

I did not know that. Regardless, I'm still on team buyout!

[jnrjr79]

I think Vuc's value, as such, is that he is an effective bumslayer. As a bumslayer, he could be used in a back-up C role where a team's bench lacks scoring...which, ironically, is true for the Bulls. But I look at teams like Denver, and others, and I could see him adding value in that role. The challenge, of course, with pretty much all of those teams is finding matching (expiring) salaries and having their need warrant giving up a 1st. Short of getting a first back, IMO, we are way better off just buying him out...ideally at enough of a discount to be able to fill the slot with a vet min player.

A buyout won't change his cap hit, just how many actual dollars the Bulls have to pay him.

I did not know that. Regardless, I'm still on team buyout!

Ha, I'm all for it as well.

[poolshark52]

Vucevic for Mark Williams and Grayson Allen? Sure the Suns would love to unload the 3 years of Allen. They still have Maluach and Nick Richards.

[Infinity2152]

Let's compare Zach Collins to Vuc over last two years:

2024 Vuc 32 mins/gm 19pts, 10 rbs, 4 assists Collins (Spurs 36 games 12 mins 5pts, 3rbs, 1.4 asst) Bulls 28 games 20 mins 9pts, 7rbs, 2 assists
2023 Vuc 76 games 34 mins/gm 18 ts, 11 rbs, 3 assists Collins 69 games 22 mins/gm 11 pts, 5 rbs, 3 assists

People are giving a lot of weight to Collins brief stint and uptick with the Bulls. Buying Vucevic out makes no sense to me. Free up a roster spot for who? 15th man? He's the best center on the team. People are really overexaggerating his slowness vs Collins or Smith. Or the idea that your center being slower keeps the rest of the team from running. Portland and Spurs did not start Collins for 6 years. His PER was 20 last year, btw, although that's one of the advanced stats that probably tossed in here.

Smith is not particularly fast either. Vucevic's superior basketball IQ, shooting and passing is going to more than make up for any small speed difference in our centers on the offensive end. Giddey played great with him. As far as helping Giddey and Matas improve, playing with him is probably more professional and controlled than starting Collins or Smith.

Defense would be better no doubt starting Collins or Smith. But Collins and Vuc are expiring anyway, and if they plan to extend Collins, it's better they don't start him now and extend him to bench money during the season anyway. Don't see any of them being our starting center next year, so just hold Vuc longer and try to get an asset before the deadline. Half the team will be FA next year, we're not establishing a defensive identity in 2025.

Carter, on the other hand, very little chance you can get anything trading him and buyout would probably be cheap. I'd actually probably keep that roster spot open for a 2 for 1 later.

[jnrjr79]

People are giving a lot of weight to Collins brief stint and uptick with the Bulls. Buying Vucevic out makes no sense to me. Free up a roster spot for who? 15th man? He's the best center on the team. People are really overexaggerating his slowness vs Collins or Smith. Or the idea that your center being slower keeps the rest of the team from running. Portland and Spurs did not start Collins for 6 years. His PER was 20 last year, btw, although that's one of the advanced stats that probably tossed in here.

Re: the bolded -

1) It's not about a roster spot, it's about giving Vooch's touches/shots to younger players you're trying to develop. Giddey and Coby are already going to eat up a ton of the usage on this team, so not having Vooch around means more opportunity for Matas, etc.

2) I think most of the board would not agree that Vooch is the best center on the team.

[MGB8]

People are giving a lot of weight to Collins brief stint and uptick with the Bulls. Buying Vucevic out makes no sense to me. Free up a roster spot for who? 15th man? He's the best center on the team. People are really overexaggerating his slowness vs Collins or Smith. Or the idea that your center being slower keeps the rest of the team from running. Portland and Spurs did not start Collins for 6 years. His PER was 20 last year, btw, although that's one of the advanced stats that probably tossed in here.

Re: the bolded -

1) It's not about a roster spot, it's about giving Vooch's touches/shots to younger players you're trying to develop. Giddey and Coby are already going to eat up a ton of the usage on this team, so not having Vooch around means more opportunity for Matas, etc.

2) I think most of the board would not agree that Vooch is the best center on the team.

It depends on what is meant by "best center in the team."

Honestly, if Vuc openly said that he had no issue coming off the bench (while still wanting and believing he should start - he is a competitor, after all) - I would not have moved to the "but out Vuc" camp.

But the Bulls want to play fast on a team where to poor to, at best, mid defenders are starting. Adding another poor defender who is slow, with strengths as a hub in a slow half-court based offense, simply doesn't fit.

As a bench guy who comes in to feast on 2nd units or situationally, fine. But the defensive weakness when combined with Coby and Giddey, plus the below average transition play.... Means he should not start.

Look at the good teams last year. None had 3 poor defenders starting. Few even had 2 - the Knicks were one of those and they paid for it vs. Indy.

[drosestruts]

People are giving a lot of weight to Collins brief stint and uptick with the Bulls. Buying Vucevic out makes no sense to me. Free up a roster spot for who? 15th man? He's the best center on the team. People are really overexaggerating his slowness vs Collins or Smith. Or the idea that your center being slower keeps the rest of the team from running. Portland and Spurs did not start Collins for 6 years. His PER was 20 last year, btw, although that's one of the advanced stats that probably tossed in here.

Re: the bolded -

1) It's not about a roster spot, it's about giving Vooch's touches/shots to younger players you're trying to develop. Giddey and Coby are already going to eat up a ton of the usage on this team, so not having Vooch around means more opportunity for Matas, etc.

2) I think most of the board would not agree that Vooch is the best center on the team.

It depends on what is meant by "best center in the team."

Honestly, if Vuc openly said that he had no issue coming off the bench (while still wanting and believing he should start - he is a competitor, after all) - I would not have moved to the "but out Vuc" camp.

But the Bulls want to play fast on a team where to poor to, at best, mid defenders are starting. Adding another poor defender who is slow, with strengths as a hub in a slow half-court based offense, simply doesn't fit.

As a bench guy who comes in to feast on 2nd units or situationally, fine. But the defensive weakness when combined with Coby and Giddey, plus the below average transition play.... Means he should not start.

Look at the good teams last year. None had 3 poor defenders starting. Few even had 2 - the Knicks were one of those and they paid for it vs. Indy.

Vuc going to be living off those open 3's from simply getting down the court slowly

[Stratmaster]

If the consensus is he is untradeable, we need to get real. As much as I would like to see Smith start, it ain't happenin'. That just isn't in Billy's DNA. Look at Patrick Williams.

The best we can hope for is reduced minutes for Vuc. Post-ASG his minutes were down a touch, to 29 mpg. If Billy has the spine to take that down to 23 or 24 minutes that would be the best we can expect.

As far as the best Center on the team, in a vacuum Vuc is still the best Center on the team. Smith and Vuc are so different in their play style there is no point comparing them though. If your goal is to run as fast as you can and shoot as quick as you can Smith has got to be the guy. I think it is a stupid strategy; however, it is one Billy is committed to. In his defense, with the lack of talent and the lack of experience of the upside players it will work just as well/badly this season. It just isn't going to get the team anywhere long term.

[2weekswithpay]

Vuc has been on the team for 4.5 seasons, and the Bulls have been better with him on the bench in every one of those seasons. I'll concede that he does provide spacing and passing, but his overall impact on our offense is only a slight positive at best. I don't endorse the idea that he harms player development, but there's no long-term upside in keeping him on the roster. Vuc had the best shooting season of his career, and the only team that really wanted him was the Warriors, and they were only offering seconds. The Bulls likely won't get a better return unless they take on bad salary, and they haven't shown the willingness to do that.

Smith and Collins aren't starters either, but there's more to gain in giving them a bigger role than running things back with Vuc again IMO.