Shams: Lonzo for Okoro

[Dan Z]

I asked this earlier, but I'll ask it again because I forgot that some of you think Giddey should play SF (on defense).

What do the minutes/rotation look like for the Bulls forwards next year?

Tre 24 Ayo 24
Coby 32 Okoro 16
Giddey 32 Huerter 16
Buz 32 Pat 16 Noa DNP Blowout mins
Vuc 24 Collins 12 Smith 12

16 minutes....the Bulls basically didn't need him (in part because Huerter or Ayo could also play those minutes).

I guess AK sees upside with Okoro? Is it because he was the #5 pick in the draft?

[Ebo21]

I like this. Defensive wing with athleticism and an ever improving 3-ball. Former #5 draft pick and he’s still young. All it cost was Lonzo who hasn’t done squat in about 3 years. Some of you are never satisfied it seems.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

I'm fine with it. Lonzo may play 10 more games and then re-injure that knee. At least Okoro is a solid role-player. Shot 39% from 3pt two years ago and 37% last season, averaging around 3 attempts per game. Plays good defense. Should fit into the uptempo playstyle pretty well.

It's a decent swing for upside. At worst, it's a nothing burger.

[Dan Z]

The 2020 draft was odd. Three of the top five teams whiffed and I don't think LaMelo has been as good as Charlotte hoped he'd be.

Then you have the late part of the draft with players such as Payton Pritchard, Tyrese Maxey, Desmond Bane, Immanuel Quickley and Jaden McDaniels. In round two Tre Jones went #41, Marko Simonovic went #44 (remember him?), Isaiah Joe went 49, and Paul Reed went #58.

At #55 the Nets picked a guy named Scrubb.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2020.html

[Dan Z]

I'm fine with it. Lonzo may play 10 more games and then re-injure that knee. At least Okoro is a solid role-player. Shot 39% from 3pt two years ago and 37% last season, averaging around 3 attempts per game. Plays good defense. Should fit into the uptempo playstyle pretty well.

It's a decent swing for upside. At worst, it's a nothing burger.

If that happens the Cavs don't exercise his option next year and they save money.

Overall this isn't a big deal, but I'd prefer not to give up the flexibility for a player who is probably solid at best and not someone who was really needed.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

I'm fine with it. Lonzo may play 10 more games and then re-injure that knee. At least Okoro is a solid role-player. Shot 39% from 3pt two years ago and 37% last season, averaging around 3 attempts per game. Plays good defense. Should fit into the uptempo playstyle pretty well.

It's a decent swing for upside. At worst, it's a nothing burger.

If that happens the Cavs don't exercise his option next year and they save money.

Overall this isn't a big deal, but I'd prefer not to give up the flexibility for a player who is probably solid at best and not someone who was really needed.

Yeah, that's fair. I think AKME is hoping that Okoro could be their version of Nesmith.

[jump]

I remember how everyone bitched and moaned about the players we got in the Lavine trade. Now we all hope to resign Jones, and we're happy with Huerter and Collins. There's a reason Okoro was the 5th pick in the draft. Hopefully the change of scenery will allow him to break out.

Speak for yourself.

Jones, Huertet, and Collins are meaningless fodder.

We'd be better off cutting all 3.

We were a better team when any of those three was on the floor.

[kodo]

The 2020 draft was odd. Three of the top five teams whiffed and I don't think LaMelo has been as good as Charlotte hoped he'd be.

Then you have the late part of the draft with players such as Payton Pritchard, Tyrese Maxey, Desmond Bane, Immanuel Quickley and Jaden McDaniels. In round two Tre Jones went #41, Marko Simonovic went #44 (remember him?), Isaiah Joe went 49, and Paul Reed went #58.

At #55 the Nets picked a guy named Scrubb.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2020.html

Covid year. Teams were not allowed workouts.

I've always believed the workouts are incredibly important, workouts are how Utah identified Donovan Mitchell from a mid 20s pick to a #1 target and they traded up for him (using AK's denver pick). KAT over Okafor, plenty of examples.

Although I don't think even with hindsight I'd take Bane or Pritchard over Melo, he's an all-star on a better team. Those guys are excellent roleplayers.

[Lexluthor]

Read on Twitter

Dam lol

This post does not make sense . The giddey for Caruso trade was a win - win for both teams and Lonzo Ball barely is always injured

[burlydee]

Read on Twitter

Dam lol

Lonzo Ball has played like 15 games in 3 years. I think ppl need to calm down. I thought they could have got more but the fact that they got anything would have shocked everyone 6 months ago.

[Dan Z]

I'm fine with it. Lonzo may play 10 more games and then re-injure that knee. At least Okoro is a solid role-player. Shot 39% from 3pt two years ago and 37% last season, averaging around 3 attempts per game. Plays good defense. Should fit into the uptempo playstyle pretty well.

It's a decent swing for upside. At worst, it's a nothing burger.

If that happens the Cavs don't exercise his option next year and they save money.

Overall this isn't a big deal, but I'd prefer not to give up the flexibility for a player who is probably solid at best and not someone who was really needed.

Yeah, that's fair. I think AKME is hoping that Okoro could be their version of Nesmith.

I said this earlier, but he's fooling himself if he thinks that.

Nesmith was known for his shooting in college and ,even though he struggled in Boston, he figured it out. On the other hand, Okoro was a bad shooter in college and has improved in the pros on low volume. At best I think he'll be a solid shooter, but not one that people consider to be much more than that.

He brings defense, so there's that too.

[madvillian]

Absolute nothing burger of a trade and probably is a wash 90% of the time for either team. Lonzo at best plays 50-60 games next year. At best. Okoro is a solid floor rotation wing and could eat into Pat's minutes if Pat doesn't produce. From that standpoint I like it. Pat's rope is almost up, if he stinks again next year it's nice to know he probably will be glued to the bench.

[MrSparkle]

The 2020 draft was odd. Three of the top five teams whiffed and I don't think LaMelo has been as good as Charlotte hoped he'd be.

Then you have the late part of the draft with players such as Payton Pritchard, Tyrese Maxey, Desmond Bane, Immanuel Quickley and Jaden McDaniels. In round two Tre Jones went #41, Marko Simonovic went #44 (remember him?), Isaiah Joe went 49, and Paul Reed went #58.

At #55 the Nets picked a guy named Scrubb.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2020.html

Covid year. Teams were not allowed workouts.

I've always believed the workouts are incredibly important, workouts are how Utah identified Donovan Mitchell from a mid 20s pick to a #1 target and they traded up for him (using AK's denver pick). KAT over Okafor, plenty of examples.

Although I don't think even with hindsight I'd take Bane or Pritchard over Melo, he's an all-star on a better team. Those guys are excellent roleplayers.

Mitchell is how AK traded a franchise player for Trey Lyles and Tyler Lydon.

I think it’s a fair excuse, to an extent. OTOH, I think a few drops would’ve happened regardless. Like in past drafts with Jrue Holiday and other classic nonsensical drops, I was baffled to see Maxey and Quickley drop so low. Combo guards with obvious skills tend to get shafted (add Ayo, who shouldn’t have dropped to 38).

Didn’t get the Kira hype (apparently Bulls were high on him too, yikes). Soured strongly on Wiseman and Hayes closer to the draft after spending an hour watching actual game-footage of theirs (instead of highlights); Deni too (I liked him, but not as a 4 pick). Was high on Hali. LaMelo was rightfully red flagged despite the talent; just a bizarre run up to the draft.

I did not look into Patrick at all, leading up to the draft. Spent a lot of YouTube time with almost every other guy mocked top-20, even Poku. I was hopeful and believed he was a solid pick… In hindsight, I don’t know how you can take a single digit college bench player in the top-5. I don’t care what the hell the system is, or how old the player is… it’s concerning when your top-5 NBA pick was a bench player. TBF he looked better as a rookie than he did as a 5Y player, but still…AK was bamboozled, and it wasn’t the only time. Patrick’s 46th in VORP from that draft class… and he got one of the richest extensions (more than Deni). Atleast Presti, GSW and DET dumped their busts and saved the cash.

It is fair to acknowledge we have one of the strangest executives in the league. Laser focused on some good ideas that haven’t panned; the macro vision seems fine. On their own, each move STINKS. Literally, every single move (and non-move). Even the first freaking Ayo contract (vs Marko’s 4y). The Caruso MLE signing is the one and only flawless move, that still ended in a slightly suspicious trade (i like Giddey, but imo he helped OKC win that ring, and we have a $30M-40M maybe/maybe-not flawed franchise player).

[sco]

I like what Gottlieb said…

This raises our floor but lowers our ceiling as it takes mins from Buz and Noa.

Let me say it again…

AK wants to win not build a winner.

That would be evidence of the premise if Gottlieb’s underlying speculation was not obvious horse dung about Matas. And I’d rather have Okoro “eating” Noa’s minutes than a non-NBA scrub like Terry.

Noa is an 18 year old sushi-raw prospect. His minutes won’t be eaten by anyone. They will be inherently limited to some degree a matter of development. Someone has to play.

I guess people are excited about Pat and Terry getting all that run. Whoda thunkit?

I just want to pump and dump Pat. Want his mins up until he’s traded and then Noa takes over. Much like Buz last year post Lavine trade.

Absolute nothing burger of a trade and probably is a wash 90% of the time for either team. Lonzo at best plays 50-60 games next year. At best. Okoro is a solid floor rotation wing and could eat into Pat's minutes if Pat doesn't produce. From that standpoint I like it. Pat's rope is almost up, if he stinks again next year it's nice to know he probably will be glued to the bench.

I like Ball, but I have a hard time being comfortable relying on him to play 65+ games even in a backup role. And regarding the additional year of salary, I don't get that point. Unless we somehow trade Vuc (miracle), we'll still have enough expirings to bring back a max contract player at the deadline. That said, I don't think we're ready to do that in terms of team building. I personally think pushing some of those expirings forward a year doesn't come with a big opportunity cost.

The big point is that anyone who thinks that somehow playing Pat is going to up his trade value. It's not like Zach who we needed to show that he regained his form after injury. It's just like Vuc. The more you play him, the more you reinforce to league that he is what he is. Pat was a bad contract that we're not duping anyone into taking before he becomes an expiring.

That all said, unless we keep Jones, we still have a PG need.

The news that teams are interested in Ayo is encouraging. Maybe we can get back a bunch of 2nds for him or he is enough to get Vuc off our books.

[jump]

If that happens the Cavs don't exercise his option next year and they save money.

Overall this isn't a big deal, but I'd prefer not to give up the flexibility for a player who is probably solid at best and not someone who was really needed.

Yeah, that's fair. I think AKME is hoping that Okoro could be their version of Nesmith.

I said this earlier, but he's fooling himself if he thinks that.

Nesmith was known for his shooting in college and ,even though he struggled in Boston, he figured it out. On the other hand, Okoro was a bad shooter in college and has improved in the pros on low volume. At best I think he'll be a solid shooter, but not one that people consider to be much more than that.

He brings defense, so there's that too.

Has everyone forgotten? This team needs defense. We had the 6th best scoring average in the entire NBA last season and we were the third worst in points against. We desperately needed a defensive wing. Now we have one. If his 3pt shooting improves he will be a classic 3nD wing. Roll the dice.

[MrSparkle]

I have a bad feeling Ayo breaks out somewhere, if traded for some Troy Brown.

[Dan Z]

Absolute nothing burger of a trade and probably is a wash 90% of the time for either team. Lonzo at best plays 50-60 games next year. At best. Okoro is a solid floor rotation wing and could eat into Pat's minutes if Pat doesn't produce. From that standpoint I like it. Pat's rope is almost up, if he stinks again next year it's nice to know he probably will be glued to the bench.

Must be nice to get $90 million dollars for potential.

When his contact is up his career earnings will be $122,101,641.

[Dan Z]

The 2020 draft was odd. Three of the top five teams whiffed and I don't think LaMelo has been as good as Charlotte hoped he'd be.

Then you have the late part of the draft with players such as Payton Pritchard, Tyrese Maxey, Desmond Bane, Immanuel Quickley and Jaden McDaniels. In round two Tre Jones went #41, Marko Simonovic went #44 (remember him?), Isaiah Joe went 49, and Paul Reed went #58.

At #55 the Nets picked a guy named Scrubb.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2020.html

Covid year. Teams were not allowed workouts.

I've always believed the workouts are incredibly important, workouts are how Utah identified Donovan Mitchell from a mid 20s pick to a #1 target and they traded up for him (using AK's denver pick). KAT over Okafor, plenty of examples.

Although I don't think even with hindsight I'd take Bane or Pritchard over Melo, he's an all-star on a better team. Those guys are excellent roleplayers.

Mitchell is how AK traded a franchise player for Trey Lyles and Tyler Lydon.

I think it’s a fair excuse, to an extent. OTOH, I think a few drops would’ve happened regardless. Like in past drafts with Jrue Holiday and other classic nonsensical drops, I was baffled to see Maxey and Quickley drop so low. Combo guards with obvious skills tend to get shafted (add Ayo, who shouldn’t have dropped to 38).

Didn’t get the Kira hype (apparently Bulls were high on him too, yikes). Soured strongly on Wiseman and Hayes closer to the draft after spending an hour watching actual game-footage of theirs (instead of highlights); Deni too (I liked him, but not as a 4 pick). Was high on Hali. LaMelo was rightfully red flagged despite the talent; just a bizarre run up to the draft.

I did not look into Patrick at all, leading up to the draft. Spent a lot of YouTube time with almost every other guy mocked top-20, even Poku. I was hopeful and believed he was a solid pick… In hindsight, I don’t know how you can take a single digit college bench player in the top-5. I don’t care what the hell the system is, or how old the player is… it’s concerning when your top-5 NBA pick was a bench player. TBF he looked better as a rookie than he did as a 5Y player, but still…AK was bamboozled, and it wasn’t the only time. Patrick’s 46th in VORP from that draft class… and he got one of the richest extensions (more than Deni). Atleast Presti, GSW and DET dumped their busts and saved the cash.

It is fair to acknowledge we have one of the strangest executives in the league. Laser focused on some good ideas that haven’t panned; the macro vision seems fine. On their own, each move STINKS. Literally, every single move (and non-move). Even the first freaking Ayo contract (vs Marko’s 4y). The Caruso MLE signing is the one and only flawless move, that still ended in a slightly suspicious trade (i like Giddey, but imo he helped OKC win that ring, and we have a $30M-40M maybe/maybe-not flawed franchise player).

I don't think LaMelo is a winning basketball player, so I'd rather have Bane than him. Pritchard I'm not sure because I think of him as a bench/role player.

The Patrick extension was odd when it happened. I guess AK still believed in his potential and thought that injures held him back around that time? At the very least get a team option for the last year instead of a player option. If you demanded that what was PW going to do? Turn down the contract? Test the market? Doubtful.

[vxmike]

I asked this earlier, but I'll ask it again because I forgot that some of you think Giddey should play SF (on defense).

What do the minutes/rotation look like for the Bulls forwards next year?

Tre 24 Ayo 24
Coby 32 Okoro 16
Giddey 32 Huerter 16
Buz 32 Pat 16 Noa DNP Blowout mins
Vuc 24 Collins 12 Smith 12

It’s a deep roster of 12 very average guys. Our best player is easily the worst #1 option out of all 30 NBA teams.

[Dan Z]

That would be evidence of the premise if Gottlieb’s underlying speculation was not obvious horse dung about Matas. And I’d rather have Okoro “eating” Noa’s minutes than a non-NBA scrub like Terry.

Noa is an 18 year old sushi-raw prospect. His minutes won’t be eaten by anyone. They will be inherently limited to some degree a matter of development. Someone has to play.

I guess people are excited about Pat and Terry getting all that run. Whoda thunkit?

I just want to pump and dump Pat. Want his mins up until he’s traded and then Noa takes over. Much like Buz last year post Lavine trade.

Absolute nothing burger of a trade and probably is a wash 90% of the time for either team. Lonzo at best plays 50-60 games next year. At best. Okoro is a solid floor rotation wing and could eat into Pat's minutes if Pat doesn't produce. From that standpoint I like it. Pat's rope is almost up, if he stinks again next year it's nice to know he probably will be glued to the bench.

I like Ball, but I have a hard time being comfortable relying on him to play 65+ games even in a backup role. And regarding the additional year of salary, I don't get that point. Unless we somehow trade Vuc (miracle), we'll still have enough expirings to bring back a max contract player at the deadline. That said, I don't think we're ready to do that in terms of team building. I personally think pushing some of those expirings forward a year doesn't come with a big opportunity cost.

The big point is that anyone who thinks that somehow playing Pat is going to up his trade value. It's not like Zach who we needed to show that he regained his form after injury. It's just like Vuc. The more you play him, the more you reinforce to league that he is what he is. Pat was a bad contract that we're not duping anyone into taking before he becomes an expiring.

That all said, unless we keep Jones, we still have a PG need.

The news that teams are interested in Ayo is encouraging. Maybe we can get back a bunch of 2nds for him or he is enough to get Vuc off our books.

If they play PW and he doesn't improve then so be it. It is what it is, but why not try? Maybe he goes back to being the player he was a few years ago and then teams don't think he's completely terrible?

Otherwise you have a player making 18 million a year on the bench doing nothing.

The team needs to think beyond the play-in. The encouraging thing is that, as another poster pointed out, picking an 18 year old Noa does think about the future.