College Basketball/Draft Prospect Thread (Manual Ram Thread)

[ManualRam]

I've read that we were scouting Marcus Smart from OSU. I've never seen him play. Can he be a future SG next to Rose?

https://twitter.com/chicagobullsbot

they'd have to move up to get him.
he's a combo guard, more of a point since he's not a great scorer currently, but is a pretty good playmaker.

he's a tough guy to project since his best attributes are his intangibles, but i think he'd at least be able to defend at a high level. he's the ultimate winner, unselfish, with great leadership skills and has a penchant for making big plays in big moments, but his skillset leaves a lot to be desired. technically, his shot looks fine, but the results aren't there yet. he's been settling for some tough 3's this yr. he's not particularly quick. is strong but not particularly explosive around the rim. his handle is not that great either as he's very right hand dominant.

as far as the type of player and person that he is, he'd fit like a glove on the bulls, but in terms of skill and being able to fill a need at the 2, i'd look elsewhere.

Thnx for the info ManRam. Btw, do we have a chance at moving up and nabbing McLemore, Muhammad, or Goodrich?

i don't know.

goodwin's stock has slipped, but i think people tend to just look at game to game performance and forget about "project-ability." He's still a top 10 pick to me because of his great tools and natural slashing ability.

[suckfish]

What do you think of Victor Oladipo from Indiana? To me, he's the best player on that team and at 6'5 w/ tenacious defense and above average slashing ability he could be a SG option for the Bulls. I'm not sure he'll come out this year, though.

Love him. Reminds me of Ronnie Brewer. Great athlete, high energy. Is always finishing off the ball through cutting. Just not a great shooter or ball handler.

[ManualRam]

i'd like to see what young's standing reach is. i know his wingspan is listed at 7'1, but how much of that his chest and shoulders? he's jacked, like body-builder jacked, but his arms don't look that long to me.

Bulkier players give off that illusion that they aren't as long as the thinner players; many people don't realize Boozer has a 7'1-2 wingspan himself (if I recall correctly), which definitely assists him with rebounding more than people expect.

length helps bigs deter shots and area rebound. bulkier guys usually have great lower body strength which enable them to carve out space, establish position and keep people on their backs, but that does not automatically make them good area rebounders or able to contest shots well without giving up their positioning.

[ManualRam]

What do you think of Victor Oladipo from Indiana? To me, he's the best player on that team and at 6'5 w/ tenacious defense and above average slashing ability he could be a SG option for the Bulls. I'm not sure he'll come out this year, though.

Love him. Reminds me of Ronnie Brewer. Great athlete, high energy. Is always finishing off the ball through cutting. Just not a great shooter or ball handler.

he's much improved in both shooting and handling. he likely doesn't have the handle to be a 2ndary ball-handler, but i don't think that's a weakness in his game anymore.
low volume (he's making 1 a game) or not, 55% from college 3 is great. his stroke shows promise. he's also expanded his arsenal to pull ups as well.
to me, in this draft he's a borderline lotto pick.

[ChronicKerr]

How over rated is Cody Zeller? Sure he's a true 7 footer and can run the floor real well but he plays too soft and when matched up against a physical big (not a ton of them in college) which he'll certainly see in the NBA, he gets shut down too often. Top 5 pick is too high IMO.

[Red Larrivee]

You could do a lot worse for a top-5 pick, I suppose. Zeller's a skilled big who makes a lot of the right plays, and has a good feel for the game. He lacks a lot of the physical traits though you look for in a big like strength, length, and some type of explosion. Stronger and more physical players take Zeller out the game.

He's not your typical Top-5 pick, but when you look at this talent pool, he definitely stands out more.

[ManualRam]

How over rated is Cody Zeller? Sure he's a true 7 footer and can run the floor real well but he plays too soft and when matched up against a physical big (not a ton of them in college) which he'll certainly see in the NBA, he gets shut down too often. Top 5 pick is too high IMO.

what 5 guys would you take over him?
outside of the spartans, other teams the hoosiers have been matched up with this yr who played physically on the interior:
wisconsin: 23/10
minnesota: 18/6
butler: 18/5
georgetown: 17/8

he's done fine.
even though he's a 7' (supposedly) i think he'll be more of a face up PF than a back to the basket C, which is the role that he plays for indiana. in the NBA, he'll be able to play more in space, play more PnR/pop and have more face up opportunities to take advantage of his best attribute on offense, his feet (i know you saw that drive from the top of the key to help seal the game yesterday). he's not quite there physically in terms of strength but he does have a strong base to work with. i don't think it's a matter of him being soft. he doesn't strike me as a player who avoids contact or physical play. he's just not strong enough yet.

i'd still take him top 3.

[ChronicKerr]

How over rated is Cody Zeller? Sure he's a true 7 footer and can run the floor real well but he plays too soft and when matched up against a physical big (not a ton of them in college) which he'll certainly see in the NBA, he gets shut down too often. Top 5 pick is too high IMO.

what 5 guys would you take over him?

Don't get me wrong, I still think he's a top 10 guy in this draft I am just seeing him top 3 in a lot of mocks and I'm not quite sure I agree. While it was an illegal pick IMO on the drive at the end of the game it showed his quickness. I like guys like McLemore, Shabazz, Noel, Len, and even a guy like Poythress more. How much better is he going to be than a guy like Plumlee?

[ManualRam]

How over rated is Cody Zeller? Sure he's a true 7 footer and can run the floor real well but he plays too soft and when matched up against a physical big (not a ton of them in college) which he'll certainly see in the NBA, he gets shut down too often. Top 5 pick is too high IMO.

what 5 guys would you take over him?

Don't get me wrong, I still think he's a top 10 guy in this draft I am just seeing him top 3 in a lot of mocks and I'm not quite sure I agree. While it was an illegal pick IMO on the drive at the end of the game it showed his quickness. I like guys like McLemore, Shabazz, Noel, Len, and even a guy like Poythress more. How much better is he going to be than a guy like Plumlee?

i still like poythress too despite his early struggles in conference play, but he's still a tweener (more of an undersized PF) with a questionable iq and motor.

i think zeller can be a much better player than plumlee in the future for the simple fact that he's coordinated on offense. 4 yrs into his college career, plumlee still has no semblance of a jump shot and he still moves like a robot when he tries to do something with the ball. he has very little translatable offensive skill, which will likely relegate him to being an athletic, energy hustle guy at the next level IMO. zeller hasn't flashed it as much since facing up bigs is more of an nba concept due to the difference in spacing, but he has the straight line quickness, ball skill as well as the form and touch on his jumpshot to play in space.

he's not a sexy pick but i think he can be a key contributor to winning basketball while being able to contribute right away because of his combination of smarts, skill and mobility. you look at a guy like noel, and although he has the higher ceiling also has the bigger bust potential because he's not a high IQ player and he's unskilled. he reminds me a lot of tyrus thomas in that he can make athletic plays all over the floor, but shows bad instincts and fundamentals. that stuff can be learned, but to what extent? the starting point is fairly low.

[Red Larrivee]

If Anthony Davis didn't spoil Kentucky and college basketball fans last year, Noel would be getting a lot more praise. He's not great offensively and his free throws need big time work, but he is everywhere on the floor. His numbers in SEC play have been nothing short of impressive. He has at least six blocks in five of his first SEC games, while rebounding well and playing pretty good defense. A lot of people are going to look at why this Kentucky team isn't that good, and I don't think he's one of the reasons. He does need to smarten up a bit though.

Tyrus Thomas barely measured in at 6'8 at the draft combine. Noel is at least 6'10, and there are measurements that have him at 6'11 with a 7'4 wingspan and the same standing reach as Andre Drummond at 9'1.5. He's a freak of nature. I think if Tyrus was three inches taller, his career would be a lot better despite the attitude issues.

Noel probably won't be a star, but I really see no reason why he can't do what DeAndre Jordan, Larry Sanders or Andre Drummond are doing now plus more. Hell, even Javale McGee has turned into a solid pro despite IQ issues.

I like Noel's chances more than Zeller as a pro.

[ManualRam]

If Anthony Davis didn't spoil Kentucky and college basketball fans last year, Noel would be getting a lot more praise. He's not great offensively and his free throws need big time work, but he is everywhere on the floor. His numbers in SEC play have been nothing short of impressive. He has at least six blocks in five of his first SEC games, while rebounding well and playing pretty good defense. A lot of people are going to look at why this Kentucky team isn't that good, and I don't think he's one of the reasons. He does need to smarten up a bit though.

Tyrus Thomas barely measured in at 6'8 at the draft combine. Noel is at least 6'10, and there are measurements that have him at 6'11 with a 7'4 wingspan and the same standing reach as Andre Drummond at 9'1.5. He's a freak of nature. I think if Tyrus was three inches taller, his career would be a lot better despite the attitude issues.

Noel probably won't be a star, but I really see no reason why he can't do what DeAndre Jordan, Larry Sanders or Andre Drummond are doing now plus more. Hell, even Javale McGee has turned into a solid pro despite IQ issues.

I like Noel's chances more than Zeller as a pro.

when i watch noel i see a lot of things that tyrus used to do. gambling, going for reach around steals on the perimeter, reaching on entry passes, trying to block everything, biting on pump fakes, breaking defensive integrity to freelance, not boxing out or doing his work early, etc.

the side of the floor he's supposedly good at he's fundamentally flawed there.

[BullsFTW]

ManRam,

How does Mirotic compare to Zeller as a prospect? Who is more skilled? By the way, what's your take on CJ McCollum?

[ManualRam]

ManRam,

How does Mirotic compare to Zeller as a prospect? Who is more skilled? By the way, what's your take on CJ McCollum?

they're different types of bigs. mirotic is more perimeter oriented. pick n pop, show n go with the occasional post up. zeller has some skill, but he's not as comfortable of a shooter yet, preferring to do most his damage on the move via transition, 2ndary breaks, quick posts and sliding into open spaces for finishes. zeller gets touted as a good back to the basket player, but he's just ok there. he knows how to use basic moves and upfakes, but i don't see him being a great back to the basket post option in the future.
i'd say mirotic is more skilled based on his shooting ability alone.

mccollum's a great on the ball scorer at the college level. he knows how to create his own shot off the bounce, has a really tricky handle and can use the threat of the shot to attack off the bounce. he's a combo too, but he's more of an undersized SG to me. i'd find him more intriguing if he was a better athlete and playmaker, but to me he's just an average athlete with below average to average body strength. he's getting some comparisons to lillard, but i don't see it mainly because mccollum doesn't have lillard's burst, body strength or even his playmaking ability.
to me his absolute ceiling is as a top 6th man, jason terry type combo.

[BullsFTW]

ManRam,

How does Mirotic compare to Zeller as a prospect? Who is more skilled? By the way, what's your take on CJ McCollum?

they're different types of bigs. mirotic is more perimeter oriented. pick n pop, show n go with the occasional post up. zeller has some skill, but he's not as comfortable of a shooter yet, preferring to do most his damage on the move via transition, 2ndary breaks, quick posts and sliding into open spaces for finishes. zeller gets touted as a good back to the basket player, but he's just ok there. he knows how to use basic moves and upfakes, but i don't see him being a great back to the basket post option in the future.
i'd say mirotic is more skilled based on his shooting ability alone.

mccollum's a great on the ball scorer at the college level. he knows how to create his own shot off the bounce, has a really tricky handle and can use the threat of the shot to attack off the bounce. he's a combo too, but he's more of an undersized SG to me. i'd find him more intriguing if he was a better athlete and playmaker, but to me he's just an average athlete with below average to average body strength. he's getting some comparisons to lillard, but i don't see it mainly because mccollum doesn't have lillard's burst, body strength or even his playmaking ability.
to me his absolute ceiling is as a top 6th man, jason terry type combo.

It seems to me Mirotic can play inside as well. I haven't seen much of Zeller, but all I know he's been hyped as the #1 overall pick. McCollum as a Terry-type of player would be really nice. Maybe they can start Rose and Jimmy together and then insert McCollum later on. That's assuming the Bulls are high on McCollum and that they eventually acquire him.

Nice insight Ram, I appreciate it.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Ram did you get a chance to watch that Pitt vs Louisville game? How did Hunter fare against Dieng?

[dafunky1]

Better question is...........if you put Mirotic in this draft,how high would he be???

[ManualRam]

Ram did you get a chance to watch that Pitt vs Louisville game? How did Hunter fare against Dieng?

i'm guessing you mean adams, not hunter.
dieng schooled him. he shredded pitt's defense with his passing, which wasn't totally adams' fault since he was playing the middle of the defense (pitt played a lot zone). adams would step up to defend dieng at the high post and the backside wouldn't rotate to account for players slipping behind the zone.
adams had his moments, outworking l'ville's bigs for multiple o-boards and putbacks. fooled dieng once on an up n under only to get fouled and brick the FTs.

adams is raw, but his physical tools are the most impressive out of any player in this freshman class imo. it's looking more and more likely that he will return for his sophomore yr, but he is a tremendous physical specimen. he has all the physical tools you would want from a C and defensively, i think he'd be able to contribute as soon as next yr on an NBA team. needs to work on his hedging and recovering though.

dieng on the other hand played a masterful game. i don't think he'll ever be much of a scorer, but his passing at the high post was joakim-esque. he controlled the boards, practically played the whole game while avoiding foul trouble and blocking 5 shots.

[ManualRam]

Better question is...........if you put Mirotic in this draft,how high would he be???

with no contract or timetable issues?
i'd say top 3, in the mix for the #1 overall pick.

[keithmad42]

Better question is...........if you put Mirotic in this draft,how high would he be???

with no contract or timetable issues?
i'd say top 3, in the mix for the #1 overall pick.

Yeah, I agree. Since he is only realistically 1 to 2 years away now he might go around #10 this year if he was not drafted by the Bulls or anyone else prior.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Ram did you get a chance to watch that Pitt vs Louisville game? How did Hunter fare against Dieng?

i'm guessing you mean adams, not hunter.
dieng schooled him. he shredded pitt's defense with his passing, which wasn't totally adams' fault since he was playing the middle of the defense (pitt played a lot zone). adams would step up to defend dieng at the high post and the backside wouldn't rotate to account for players slipping behind the zone.
adams had his moments, outworking l'ville's bigs for multiple o-boards and putbacks. fooled dieng once on an up n under only to get fouled and brick the FTs.

adams is raw, but his physical tools are the most impressive out of any player in this freshman class imo. it's looking more and more likely that he will return for his sophomore yr, but he is a tremendous physical specimen. he has all the physical tools you would want from a C and defensively, i think he'd be able to contribute as soon as next yr on an NBA team. needs to work on his hedging and recovering though.

dieng on the other hand played a masterful game. i don't think he'll ever be much of a scorer, but his passing at the high post was joakim-esque. he controlled the boards, practically played the whole game while avoiding foul trouble and blocking 5 shots.

Yeah Adams, I don't know where Hunter came from. I wanted to watch the game but forgot so thank you for the rundown. Adams does have Beast potential.