Lets talk Zach Lavine

[coldfish]

Zach is shooting .302 from the perimeter at 7.6 3PA.

Ouch.

He's about as good an outside shooter as Wendell Carter right now.

If you take out all the misses that were someone else's fault, Zach is shooting 100% from 3p. I blame coaching and his teammates.

[TheSuzerain]

Athletic freaks who train hard in the offseason and show proof of improvement every season are a dime a dozen. Trade him to some sucker for a top 10 pick.

Seriously, you know what easily replacable? Power forwards who don't box out and defend. Entitled, unproven slackers who play with no sense of urgency until its time for a new contract.

He doesn't really show improvement though. Lavine has seemingly put in the hours in the gym to bring his shot-making ability to the top-level.

But you're not going to learn NBA level defensive instincts or passing/vision by training in the gym in your 7th offseason and beyond. That's pretty well baked in at that point.

You are not watching games if you don’t think he has improved defensively. He is not a natural playmaker either, but it is not a complete disaster anymore. He is getting to point where he can do it in a complimentary role. This is not the same player as last season.

He's not a bad defender in the sense that opposing teams can just hunt for switches until he's guarding the ball. That's kind of always been true just because he's not small and/or slow. His problems are mostly team defense.

Lavine loafed last season. The current Lavine looks more like Lavine from two seasons ago which was the best season of Lavine to date.

[ZOMG]

Zach is shooting .302 from the perimeter at 7.6 3PA.

Ouch.

He's about as good an outside shooter as Wendell Carter right now.

If you take out all the misses that were someone else's fault, Zach is shooting 100% from 3p. I blame coaching and his teammates.

Funny.

He IS shooting 30% though. :shrug:

[WindyCityBorn]

Zach is shooting .302 from the perimeter at 7.6 3PA.

Ouch.

He's about as good an outside shooter as Wendell Carter right now.

I know(or hope) this a joke. Using these early numbers Lillard is a worse shooter than both of them.

[coldfish]

Zach is shooting .302 from the perimeter at 7.6 3PA.

Ouch.

He's about as good an outside shooter as Wendell Carter right now.

If you take out all the misses that were someone else's fault, Zach is shooting 100% from 3p. I blame coaching and his teammates.

Funny.

He IS shooting 30% though. :shrug:

His is like 5 makes away from 38% for the year. Its really early and overall his TS is 57.1%. Its not something I would worry about right now.

Just for reference, Lauri has had 8 entire months in his career where he shot 32% or less from 3.

[Magic beans]

He doesn't really show improvement though. Lavine has seemingly put in the hours in the gym to bring his shot-making ability to the top-level.

But you're not going to learn NBA level defensive instincts or passing/vision by training in the gym in your 7th offseason and beyond. That's pretty well baked in at that point.

You are not watching games if you don’t think he has improved defensively. He is not a natural playmaker either, but it is not a complete disaster anymore. He is getting to point where he can do it in a complimentary role. This is not the same player as last season.

He's not a bad defender in the sense that opposing teams can just hunt for switches until he's guarding the ball. That's kind of always been true just because he's not small and/or slow. His problems are mostly team defense.

Lavine loafed last season. The current Lavine looks more like Lavine from two seasons ago which was the best season of Lavine to date.

Surely even the biggest lavine detractors have to give him credit? Loved the majority of his play thus far this season.

Think when he facilitates the offensive it adds another dimension. The reason he takes the big shots is because he’s the best choice. Without lavine in the current roster we are cannon fodder!!

[Shill]

You are not watching games if you don’t think he has improved defensively. He is not a natural playmaker either, but it is not a complete disaster anymore. He is getting to point where he can do it in a complimentary role. This is not the same player as last season.

He's not a bad defender in the sense that opposing teams can just hunt for switches until he's guarding the ball. That's kind of always been true just because he's not small and/or slow. His problems are mostly team defense.

Lavine loafed last season. The current Lavine looks more like Lavine from two seasons ago which was the best season of Lavine to date.

Surely even the biggest lavine detractors have to give him credit? Loved the majority of his play thus far this season.

Think when he facilitates the offensive it adds another dimension. The reason he takes the big shots is because he’s the best choice. Without lavine in the current roster we are cannon fodder!!

My main issue with LaVine has always been the turnovers.

He's too loose with the ball.

His A/T ratio is abysmal, but he had 0 TOs against the Lakers, which is nice.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

Timing is perfect to Lavine trade, stacked 21 draft, contenders missing firepower, not to many fa left for 21. Price is expiring contract, young player on rookie deal, unprotected first and two seconds. Phila,Lakers,Clippers,Bucks,Magic,Dallas,Sacramento,Warriors get in bidding war. If extra frp was added Porter,Young or Sato are in deal.

[DroseReturnChi]

Timing is perfect to Lavine trade, stacked 21 draft, contenders missing firepower, not to many fa left for 21. Price is expiring contract, young player on rookie deal, unprotected first and two seconds. Phila,Lakers,Clippers,Bucks,Magic,Dallas,Sacramento,Warriors get in bidding war. If extra frp was added Porter,Young or Sato are in deal.

yep likely highest trade value for porter, lavine, carter which is very good. white is no untouchable either.
I would really want to just get rid of everyone and get a 2nd top 5. A Suggs/Cade/Williams core would be the ideal bull roster.

[FranchisePlayer]

You are not watching games if you don’t think he has improved defensively. He is not a natural playmaker either, but it is not a complete disaster anymore. He is getting to point where he can do it in a complimentary role. This is not the same player as last season.

He's not a bad defender in the sense that opposing teams can just hunt for switches until he's guarding the ball. That's kind of always been true just because he's not small and/or slow. His problems are mostly team defense.

Lavine loafed last season. The current Lavine looks more like Lavine from two seasons ago which was the best season of Lavine to date.

Surely even the biggest lavine detractors have to give him credit? Loved the majority of his play thus far this season.

Think when he facilitates the offensive it adds another dimension. The reason he takes the big shots is because he’s the best choice. Without lavine in the current roster we are cannon fodder!!

Some stats:

When Lavine has scored 30+ points in a game, we are 1-4.
When Lavine has scored less than 30 points, we are 3-6.

Currently he sits in 51st place in assists per game.

I think the Bulls are not "cannon fodder" without him but shall we see that and when?

[the ultimates]

He's not a bad defender in the sense that opposing teams can just hunt for switches until he's guarding the ball. That's kind of always been true just because he's not small and/or slow. His problems are mostly team defense.

Lavine loafed last season. The current Lavine looks more like Lavine from two seasons ago which was the best season of Lavine to date.

Surely even the biggest lavine detractors have to give him credit? Loved the majority of his play thus far this season.

Think when he facilitates the offensive it adds another dimension. The reason he takes the big shots is because he’s the best choice. Without lavine in the current roster we are cannon fodder!!

Some stats:

When Lavine has scored 30+ points in a game, we are 1-4.
When Lavine has scored less than 30 points, we are 3-6.

Currently he sits in 51st place in assists per game.

I think the Bulls are not "cannon fodder" without him but shall we see that and when?

The Bulls are cannon fodder without him. How does the team score enough points?

[FranchisePlayer]

Surely even the biggest lavine detractors have to give him credit? Loved the majority of his play thus far this season.

Think when he facilitates the offensive it adds another dimension. The reason he takes the big shots is because he’s the best choice. Without lavine in the current roster we are cannon fodder!!

Some stats:

When Lavine has scored 30+ points in a game, we are 1-4.
When Lavine has scored less than 30 points, we are 3-6.

Currently he sits in 51st place in assists per game.

I think the Bulls are not "cannon fodder" without him but shall we see that and when?

The Bulls are cannon fodder without him. How does the team score enough points?

Other players make more buckets instead.

[the ultimates]

Some stats:

When Lavine has scored 30+ points in a game, we are 1-4.
When Lavine has scored less than 30 points, we are 3-6.

Currently he sits in 51st place in assists per game.

I think the Bulls are not "cannon fodder" without him but shall we see that and when?

The Bulls are cannon fodder without him. How does the team score enough points?

Other players make more buckets instead.

NBA scoring isn't some algebra equation. Just giving other players more shots doesn't mean they'll score more points or do it efficiently. So Zach is off the team who becomes the number one option? Lauri whose never shown he can do it. Williams the rookie? OPJ isn't a number one option. Coby, who people moan about how much he shoots already. 25+ points per game efficient scorers aren't replaced by committee or just giving guys who are worse scorers more shots.

[pipfan]

part of the appeal of trading Lavine IS to get worse, in the short run. This 2021 top 5 looks great. White, Lauri and Williams could be really good secondary creators behind a guy like Suggs or Cunningham. Hopefully, if the Bulls decide to trade him, they get a good shot at another top 2021 pick

[the ultimates]

part of the appeal of trading Lavine IS to get worse, in the short run. This 2021 top 5 looks great. White, Lauri and Williams could be really good secondary creators behind a guy like Suggs or Cunningham. Hopefully, if the Bulls decide to trade him, they get a good shot at another top 2021 pick

So you trade Lavine to get worse so you can draft a player like Lavine?

[RagingBull316]

Just like the Bulls didn't get better by trading Rose, Butler and Noah. They sure as hell aren't getting better by trading any of the current core for draft picks. This team needs vets more then it needs draft picks.

The biggest move the Bulls made in 2010 was signing vets from a winning team (Utah Jazz). Korver, Brewer and Boozer all came from a winning team and already knew how to win in the league and that helped take Rose, Deng and Noah to the next level.

Sent from my SM-G981U using RealGM mobile app

[FranchisePlayer]

The Bulls are cannon fodder without him. How does the team score enough points?

Other players make more buckets instead.

NBA scoring isn't some algebra equation. Just giving other players more shots doesn't mean they'll score more points or do it efficiently. So Zach is off the team who becomes the number one option? Lauri whose never shown he can do it. Williams the rookie? OPJ isn't a number one option. Coby, who people moan about how much he shoots already. 25+ points per game efficient scorers aren't replaced by committee or just giving guys who are worse scorers more shots.

Not that I disagree with you completely but you have to understand that if you say something blatantly provocative like "cannon fodder without him" you are bound to receive an answer you don't agree with.

Lavine is good but not that good people think him to be. He's no James

If and when Lavine is off the picture, some players will inevitably take his place and shots, this team will have a different look offensively and defensively, and the end result won't be that we lose constantly and won't score enough. Record might be worse but probably not worse than Clippers in the 90's. It could be better too. Some people excel when they get more responsibility and a chance to prove themselves.

Mind you, that basically was the starting point when he arrived here from the Wolves.

[the ultimates]

Other players make more buckets instead.

NBA scoring isn't some algebra equation. Just giving other players more shots doesn't mean they'll score more points or do it efficiently. So Zach is off the team who becomes the number one option? Lauri whose never shown he can do it. Williams the rookie? OPJ isn't a number one option. Coby, who people moan about how much he shoots already. 25+ points per game efficient scorers aren't replaced by committee or just giving guys who are worse scorers more shots.

Not that I disagree with you completely but you have to understand that if you say something blatantly provocative like "cannon fodder without him" you are bound to receive an answer you don't agree with.

Lavine is good but not that good people think him to be. He's no James

If and when Lavine is off the picture, some players will inevitably take his place and shots, this team will have a different look offensively and defensively, and the end result won't be that we lose constantly and won't score enough. Record might be worse but probably not worse than Clippers in the 90's. It could be better too. Some people excel when they get more responsibility and a chance to prove themselves.

Mind you, that basically was the starting point when he arrived here from the Wolves.

Which player or players will take his scoring role? You can't say cannon fodder is too provocative yet you make it seem as if his scoring and efficiency just gets replaced nebulously with worse scorers.

[MrSparkle]

I’m not expecting it, but a top-10 pick in this draft would be good for me.

I don’t see a bottom-10 team that would make that trade, though. Maybe CHA.

Risky trading with anybody before deadline, cause the league is wide-open. With the play-in, you can sneak into the 16th pick with the most mediocre roster. And injuries, COVID, etc. - wildly unpredictable standings.

If he has an epic playoff performance and we get bounced in the first round, that would probably be a good time to sell high. At that point, it’d be hard for Bulls fans not to fall in love and want to keep him. I’d be for trading him on draft night, in that scenario.

Totally acknowledge he’s improving offensively, and looking better as a playmaker. Still wouldn’t think he’s the vet/#1-option to max out and build around. I’m probably expecting AK to pay him and tweak the rest.

[cool007]

Yep trade Zach so we then start looking for a player just like him whether in the draft or free agency and only a couple of years later, you want to trade that player and start this cycle again.

Lavine is having a close to career year and now playing really good at BOTH ends of the floor - so now we need to trade him?
I personally think we need a toughness inside and a consistent scorer next to Lavine who can take some load off of him and with BD as a coach, we would be looking at playoffs this year.

Lets compare these stats with a player who is considered by many a franchise player - highly regarded by national TV and now also has a playmaking vet HOF type PG in Chris Paul.

Lavine: 26ppg, 5rpg 4.4apg 1.4spg 0.7bpg 4.0 TO

Booker: 21.7ppg 3.3rpg 4.4apg 1spg 0.3bpg 4.8 TO

So Booker is turning over about 5 times a game even with CP3 as his playmaking PG but Lavine is always looked at like he is just that turnover prone player that needs to go. Not saying that he doesn't need to improve on that but not having a pass first/playmaking PG really hurts him. He sometimes has to try to do too much with scoring and playmaking and that causes this. Look at Bradley Beal too, he also turns it over almost same as Lavine too.

It almost seems like people want a "Perfect" player or if not, let's trade him.