GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2

[Clocian]

Pat is only .7 rebounds away from matching kawhi's rookie season, and has more than what paul george obtained as a rook.

I remember it like it was yesterday when people said he had a low motor and was doomed as a player.

Keep growing Pat.

I remembered that post showing Coby was ahead of D Rose’s 2nd year numbers. Can’t wait for Coby’s MVP next year

So you have nothing to back up that Pat will only be a role player and has no potential of being better?

[cjbulls]

Pat is only .7 rebounds away from matching kawhi's rookie season, and has more than what paul george obtained as a rook.

I remember it like it was yesterday when people said he had a low motor and was doomed as a player.

Keep growing Pat.

I remembered that post showing Coby was ahead of D Rose’s 2nd year numbers. Can’t wait for Coby’s MVP next year

So you have nothing to back up that Pat will only be a role player and has no potential of being better?

Thad Young and Harrison Barnes say hello

[DroseReturnChi]

Let's not go crazy now, I'm high on Williams but PG was 5th in MVP voting and has put up insane numbers while leading a team against the Heat. If he's even half as good as PG, I'll be ecstatic

This thread should be renamed “Go Crazy Posters in describing your projections for Pat”

Agreed.

I liked the pick, I like what I've seen so far, and I'm optimistic about what he can become. But Leonard/George projections at this stage are just whacky.

he doesnt have to be leonard. but he is the closest thing to a leonard clone like young is to curry.
If you dont understand the analogy, yeah your gonna regret in 5 yrs big time.

[kulaz3000]

It's becoming a little tiresome reading these snarky opposing remarks, responding to posters with differing views on said players on these boards. I strongly suggest you all take it down a notch.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, ESPECIALLY when it comes to projecting how a player will turn out, something that no one on here has as a definitive and correct answer on, so to then make snarky remarks about how one posters knows less than the other, or one view is less valuable than the other, is utterly redundant.

None of this is warning worthy, however, you should all be held to a higher standard and a reminder that a little respect to your fellow posters goes a long way.

[cjbulls]

It's becoming a little tiresome reading these snarky opposing remarks, responding to posters with differing views on said players on these boards. I strongly suggest you all take it down a notch.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, ESPECIALLY when it comes to projecting how a player will turn out, something that no one on here has as a definitive and correct answer on, so to then make snarky remarks about how one posters knows less than the other, or one view is less valuable than the other, is utterly redundant.

None of this is warning worthy, however, you should all be held to a higher standard and a reminder that a little respect to your fellow posters goes a long way.

The idea that similar rookie stats imply similar career outcomes should be called out, especially when those stats are nothing unique like 10 pts, 4 reb, etc. Projections are one thing, but faulty reasoning for the projection is another. Although I would argue there should always be a challenge allowed for comparing rookies to hall of famers. I know the guy who posted that D Rose’ 2nd year stats were close to Coby’s 2nd year stats didn’t receive the protection of the mods.

This should be a discussion board where views can be challenged. If they didn’t want them reviewed, why post them at all?

Re-read what kulaz wrote, you completely missed the concerns he was bringing up. Backseat moderating, go to PM with questions and comments please ~fleet

[Wingy]

he doesnt have to be leonard. but he is the closest thing to a leonard clone like young is to curry.
If you dont understand the analogy, yeah your gonna regret in 5 yrs big time.

I'm not gonna regret anything. Like I said, I liked the pick from the beginning, and still do. Yes, I get there are similarities in physical tools. But there are tons of guys throughout the league that can physically profile similar to a star. Putting it all together to reach those heights is a whole other deal. I agree he doesn't have to be Leonard, but I (a supporter) and others (detractors) get the sense that too many folks act like approaching that level is predestined for Pat when he's got an insanely long way to go.

[sco]

he doesnt have to be leonard. but he is the closest thing to a leonard clone like young is to curry.
If you dont understand the analogy, yeah your gonna regret in 5 yrs big time.

I'm not gonna regret anything. Like I said, I liked the pick from the beginning, and still do. Yes, I get there are similarities in physical tools. But there are tons of guys throughout the league that can physically profile similar to a star. Putting it all together to reach those heights is a whole other deal. I agree he doesn't have to be Leonard, but I (a supporter) and others (detractors) get the sense that too many folks act like approaching that level is predestined for Pat when he's got an insanely long way to go.

Wow...well said.

It's 50% physical attributes and natural ability, and 50% putting the extra work in. It gets even tougher after they get a taste of the money, and all the distractions that brings.

[gardenofsound]

he doesnt have to be leonard. but he is the closest thing to a leonard clone like young is to curry.
If you dont understand the analogy, yeah your gonna regret in 5 yrs big time.

I'm not gonna regret anything. Like I said, I liked the pick from the beginning, and still do. Yes, I get there are similarities in physical tools. But there are tons of guys throughout the league that can physically profile similar to a star. Putting it all together to reach those heights is a whole other deal. I agree he doesn't have to be Leonard, but I (a supporter) and others (detractors) get the sense that too many folks act like approaching that level is predestined for Pat when he's got an insanely long way to go.

Wow...well said.

It's 50% physical attributes and natural ability, and 50% putting the extra work in. It gets even tougher after they get a taste of the money, and all the distractions that brings.

Also the only physical commonality between them is their large hands.

Otherwise Patrick Williams's physical length profile is closer to a young Lebron. 6'8"/6'9" with a 6'11" wingspan. Williams isn't as muscular/heavy as Bron was, though.

Lots of other players have similar profiles BTW. It's a combo of durability/luck (including the luck of circumstance... coaches, teammates, mentors, etc), work ethic, and everything between the ears that will determine what kind of player someone will become.

[gobullschi]

he doesnt have to be leonard. but he is the closest thing to a leonard clone like young is to curry.
If you dont understand the analogy, yeah your gonna regret in 5 yrs big time.

I'm not gonna regret anything. Like I said, I liked the pick from the beginning, and still do. Yes, I get there are similarities in physical tools. But there are tons of guys throughout the league that can physically profile similar to a star. Putting it all together to reach those heights is a whole other deal. I agree he doesn't have to be Leonard, but I (a supporter) and others (detractors) get the sense that too many folks act like approaching that level is predestined for Pat when he's got an insanely long way to go.

Wow...well said.

It's 50% physical attributes and natural ability, and 50% mentality. It gets even tougher after they get a taste of the money, and all the distractions that brings.

Fixed.

Patrick Williams seems like a very high character guy, intelligent, good awareness of his role, and the improvement from his time at Florida State to now are all positive signs... I haven't been able to get a good read on 'who' Patrick Williams really is yet, but I don't particularly love his 'confidence level'...especially for a top 5 pick. He doesn't strike me as a guy who has a chip on his shoulder or is crazy competitive (MJ/Kobe) either.

I never followed Kawhi Leonard's career that closely... Is that another reason why Williams often gets the comparison, or is it just based on measurables and athleticism?

[jsleesl28]

To me, Pat just looks different. so i think thats why some people have crazy high expectations with him.

one thing i noticed too is, he sometimes lacks(?) court awareness and gets beat by just not being in the right position/because he is slow to react to changes on the defensive side of the ball.

not sure if he can get that part on his game right. if he can, he will be a superb defensive power, because i feel like he has all the tools.

offensively, he has a chance to be special too with that already patented hand handed shot in the paint.

[Almost Retired]

Considering that Pat won't even be able to buy a beer (legally) until August 26,2022 you cannot help but be impressed with this kid's poise. I don't know how mature you were at 19 years old but I confess...I was a knucklehead. Wrecking cars, underage drinking, smoking weed. This kid is holding his own against top tier NBA talent after only a year of college (without starting) and no training camp to speak of. He has exceeded my expectations so far, if only that I didn't expect his role to be as prominent as it has been forced to be. I figured him for spot minutes at the #3 behind Otto and Hutch, and spot minutes at the #4 behind Lauri and Thad. If we can land one of the top SFs in the next draft then I think Pat can settle in and concentrate of being a #4.

[coldfish]

Right now, Pat has the 47th highest VORP in the draft class out of 53 players that have actually played. I really can't complain much because the guy I probably would have drafted (Okuro) has the 53rd. The guy I really wanted (Edwards) is 52nd.

Pat is a project. We all knew that. Anyone who spent even a little bit of time watching his college film knew he wasn't aggressive. He does have NBA length, athleticism, some beef and coordination. There is almost no point to evaluating him until year 3. I have no idea what is in store for him. The Bulls seem intent on giving him every opportunity to succeed in a positive environment so hopefully it works out.

Those that wanted Halliburton (I know there were several of you), feel free to take a bow.

[JimmyButler21]

I didn't like the pick but I don't mind Williams so far. He's been exactly what I thought he'd be so far and maybe a little better because I didn't expect much out of a 19 year old that didn't start at all in college. I think he's gonna be a good NBA player that doesn't make any All Star Games but is solidly in a rotation for the next decade. The problem is, that's just not good enough when you're picking #4 overall and you have a team full of guys picked high in the draft that aren't All Star caliber guys.

[WindyCityBorn]

Williams has definitely hit the wall. His defense has been pretty bad since the Boston game and he just doesn’t seem confident about anything he is doing on offense.

[BigUps]

PWilliams let’s the game come to him. It’s a strength and a weakness. The reasons it’s a weakness is because he isn’t aggressive on the offensive side. He really needs to learn to step up and take over parts of the game.

[sco]

I don't think he's bad. He's got skills and physical attributes. He seems to have a good BBIQ, especially for a rookie. His ceiling will be how hard he works to put it all together...recognizing defenses, learning opponents' tendencies and developing moves and shots he can become efficient with, but that takes years of work and extra hard practice/study - most guys fall short.

[Ice Man]

I don't think he's bad. He's got skills and physical attributes. He seems to have a good BBIQ, especially for a rookie. His ceiling will be how hard he works to put it all together...recognizing defenses, learning opponents' tendencies and developing moves and shots he can become efficient with, but that takes years of work and extra hard practice/study - most guys fall short.

There's nothing to indicate that Pat Williams can't be a perennial All Star. But the same holds for many other tall, athletic 19 year olds who have some skills and court presence. The one thing that does make Pat stand out from those others, in my view, is his jump shot, and that's a very important thing in the modern game.

Still, a very long ways to go for him.

[DuckIII]

Williams has definitely hit the wall. His defense has been pretty bad since the Boston game and he just doesn’t seem confident about anything he is doing on offense.

I would not say he hit a wall. More like he keeps hitting walls. It’s frustrating because he’ll look like he’s on the verge of moving up a tier after 2-3 good games and then BAM, he’s passive on offense and lost on defense for a few games.

I’m chalking it up to the indisputable fact that he’s a project. But it would be more comforting if when he made a breakthrough, he would actually “level up” a little and keep climbing. Instead it’s peaks and valleys.

[R3AL1TY]

I think Pat's issue currently is deferring to Lavine and White taking turns on offense. He needs to command getting the ball from them at times or else he'll be forgotten.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I just never understood that a player has to be amazing right out the gate to me a great player.

News flash, no one cares what you did as a rookie.

Being rookie of the year is nice. Being on a all rookie team is nice. But in all honesty it means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Does anyone care that Lauri was a first team all nba rookie? Did it really affect Domantas Sabonis who didnt make any rookie teams?

How bout Josh Jackson and Dennis Smith Jr who have been out of the league made all rookie 2nd teams?

Its not how you start, its how you finish.

With that said, I think Pat has all the tools to be really successful down the line. He has basically everything you would want going forward. Its up to him to realize his full potential but its also not a race for him to do so.

Most people have said he can be a franchise level player in 3 years. He might even get there sooner than that. We have to keep in mind he is 19 and doesnt even know who he is as a player yet.

Im just going to enjoy the ride.