Around The NBA : 2023-24 Season #3

[CROBulls]

So you telling me Mikal Bridges is worth 5 picks, 4 of them unprotected ones and Zach is worth salary dump? Someone is trying to swindle us so hard. We truly have worst FO in entire NBA by clear distant mile. Not even kidding. This is not over reaction.

[Dominator83]

So you telling me Mikal Bridges is worth 5 picks, 4 of them unprotected ones and Zach is worth salary dump? Someone is trying to swindle us so hard. We truly have worst FO in entire NBA by clear distant mile. Not even kidding. This is not over reaction.

Yea eff trading Lavine for some poo poo platter, let alone if we have to pay to move him. Id rather keep him and let him rebuild his value. In no world is Mikal Bridges worth 5 1sts and Zach not even 1.

I doubly feel this way if AKME is planning to keep 1 of the 2 between DDR and Zach. I don't see them moving on from both. This is why we heard that they don't wanna talk new contract with DDR until they know what the situation with Zach is.

[ChiefILL53]

I just came into work and saw Sporting Logically's video thumbnail and was like "the nets traded bridges?" and went to twitter to look at Woj's page lol. I cant believe someone actually gave up 5 firsts for Bridges. It's a great addition to their roster, but it's way too much to give up. Woj also said that the Knicks apparently wanna keep OG, but this makes re-signing Hartenstein difficult. He also said theyre trying to get wings to battle the Celtics, but my thinking is...they're gonna need big man depth to get to a point where they're facing the celtics in the playoffs let alone be able to battle them. Did nobody just watch the celtics steam roll dallas with KP and Horford? lol

Also...there's NO way Zach isn't worth a 1st. Bridges is an obviously better defender, but Zach is a much better scorer. Someone is trying to manipulate the media to get the message out about Zach having no value.

[Wingy]

Bridges is an iron man in terms of availability. That’s an underrated, real ability.

Bridges makes a little more than half of a lot of max players make.

2nd in DPOY just two years ago before he was asked to carry too much (for his capabilities) on offense. He’ll be able to step back again in NY with Brunson and even Randle.

Can shoot the 3 at a solid level.

Plus the Knicks get that Nova connection for whatever that’s worth (making your best player happy at least).

Given those things, I think it’s an overpay, but it’s really not that crazy when you consider guys like Vucevic and Marcus Smart command two firsts + player value (WCJ, Kristaps).

[pipfan]

I think we should keep Lavine, and deal him at the deadline. Let DDR walk (love the guy, maybe a sign-and-trade). Start this lineup

Ayo/CWhite/Carter
Lavine/CWhite
Giddy/Terry/PWill
PWill/Phillips
Drummond/Vuc (no DDR means we can make a fair offer to Drummond, and let him start. Vuc can bum slay off the bench-24 min each)

Plus the #11 pick. Let Lavine average big numbers, and deal him. I know Coby won't want to be 6th man, but he'll get 34 minutes there and plenty of shots. He seems like a good kid and will understand. OR, deal him while his value is very high

[DropStep]

Welp, Mikal Bridges to the Knicks for 5 first round draft picks and a pick swap.

Knicks: Bojan plus two firsts! Bojan is good! That's a good offer.
Nets: (Eyes roll) We're hanging up the phone now.
Knicks: WAIT! I... Grrrrrr! OK fine (winces). We'll add a third pick. THREE! That's a lot.
Nets: We have important things to do, like finding a real buyer for the majesty that is Mikal Bridges. Byeeeeeee...
Knicks: What?! Dang it! OK, four! Four picks!
Nets: This is beneath our station. We shall not waste any more of our time with you. Call us when you'd like to be taken seriously.
Knicks: What is WRONG with you people? OK, Bojan plus FIVE unprotected picks. FIVE. That's Gobert territory.
Nets: Our finger is getting so close to the little red phone-shaped button now...
Knicks: WAIT! Seriously? OK, have a pick swap! What do I care at this point.
Nets: We are now listening.
Knicks: AND A SECOND ROUNDER.
Nets: (Heavy sigh) A second rounder! A second rounder... Hmm. I suppose we... (another sigh)... we shall contemplate this. I guess.
Knicks: And the JD and the Straight Shot Band!
Nets: Wait. Go back.

[sco]

Read on Twitter

Wow. Go NY. That is going all in.

Wonder what that means for resigning OG and Hartenstein?

I still want us to nab Achuiwa...maybe this paves the way?

Bold move Cotton!

I'll give them credit for getting their chips in the middle.

Part of me thinks that they were sitting on that deal for Spider but changed their minds on him and just moved it to someone else without adjusting it.

[ChiefILL53]

I honestly dont think Mitchell would be a good fit on the knicks anyway. A lot of that offense is Brunson goin to work. DM would take the ball out of his hands...and not give it back.

[drosestruts]

5 first for Mikal Bridges is just insane to me.

I know there's the saying that "it only takes one GM" to set someones value, but there's no consistency in my mind league-wide on player values.

Many others here have said it but Bridges is worth 5 first round picks, and Zach is worth nothing? It makes no sense.

Zach is labeled as some career loser. Bridges spends one season as the top guy on a team - that team goes 30-52, and that's followed by him getting traded for five 1sts?? It's nonsense.

Bridges had a Win Share of 4.2 last year. They got a pick for every win he adds, and then some!

[Ice Man]

The Bridges trade broke my head. I won't be coherent for several days now. Let's just say that I much, much, much preferred our Caruso trade to what the Knicks just did.

[kodo]

Also...there's NO way Zach isn't worth a 1st. Bridges is an obviously better defender, but Zach is a much better scorer. Someone is trying to manipulate the media to get the message out about Zach having no value.

Situations are different, we're not trying to trade Zach for value back. We're trying to salary dump Zach. When salary dumping, the dumping team gives the other team something (usually a 1st) not the other way around. And this is a $40M, long term contract.

KC has been our best source of info and he phrased the FO goal as "a successful season for Chicago would have involved the ball club managing to get off the contract of injured star guard Zach LaVine." He hasn't phrased the FO goals as "maximizing Lavine's return value."

Another report mentioned deals for Lavine were in place, the FO is just worried about the return perception. That smells like a salary dump. Plus we've only seriously talked to teams with major cap space, the Pistons & Philly.

[MGB8]

While it is an overpay, folks I think are underrating both the financial aspects along with the fit aspects.

Brides makes 23.3 M this year, 24.9 M. 40-45% less than Zach. He put up nearly 20 ppg last season on a bad team on middling but not bad efficiency, proving that he can be a #1 on a bad team… or a #2 on a good/great team. The year prior, he was insane after the trade, putting up 26 ppg on superstar efficiency over 27 games… but that is the impact of being out of the running. Mikal also has shown that, despite being able to be the #1, he has no problem being complementary and playing primarily off-ball.

Let’s say that NY does resign OG, keeps Randle, losses Hartenstein but signs a competent backup C for Robinson - maybe even a ring chaser type. They bring back Achiwa and also sign, let’s say, Theis (Thibs would love him).

Look at this team:

Brunson-McBride-(Milton)
Bridges-DiVincenzo-Milton
OG-(Bridges)-Hart
Randle-(OG)-(Precious)
Robinson-Precious-Theis-Sims

Plus 2 late first draft picks in a top-weak-but-actually-pretty-deep-mid-first-talent draft…

They were among the best teams in the East after the OG trade, prior to his injury (with others hurt, too). Adding Bridges to that, even if losing Hartenstein…. They can push Boston, absolutely.

Zach just isn’t comparable. Far less defense, far more injury risk, far more bball personality risks, far more money.

[Wingy]

I honestly dont think Mitchell would be a good fit on the knicks anyway. A lot of that offense is Brunson goin to work. DM would take the ball out of his hands...and not give it back.

I’ll admit I’m not a fan of Mitchell. Huge talent, and one of the best team floor raisers out there. I also think he hard caps your ceiling. Basically a poor man’s Luka. Not in terms of exact game, but how much he controls the ball and w/o Luka’s passing chops. He’s amazing, but I don’t think he fits well on a true contender, multi-offensive star team (unless you’re talking a very specific pairing with Joker, or healthy Giannis, magically healthy Embiid).

[MGB8]

Also...there's NO way Zach isn't worth a 1st. Bridges is an obviously better defender, but Zach is a much better scorer. Someone is trying to manipulate the media to get the message out about Zach having no value.

Situations are different, we're not trying to trade Zach for value back. We're trying to salary dump Zach. When salary dumping, the dumping team gives the other team something (usually a 1st) not the other way around. And this is a $40M, long term contract.

KC has been our best source of info and he phrased the FO goal as "a successful season for Chicago would have involved the ball club managing to get off the contract of injured star guard Zach LaVine." He hasn't phrased the FO goals as "maximizing Lavine's return value."

Another report mentioned deals for Lavine were in place, the FO is just worried about the return perception. That smells like a salary dump. Plus we've only seriously talked to teams with major cap space, the Pistons & Philly.

I think it is well known that the Bulls are not allowed to go into the tax and would very much like to retain DDR and Pat, which would necessitate moving LaVine’s salary. I also think that, unlike Bridges, and like Vuc, there is not ONE team out there who wants to add Zach on his current contract, with his injury history, and can do so while sending cap space out. Pistons don’t want to. Sixers might… but basically as option 10, after options 1-9 fail. So - Bridges is worth a boat of (likely fairly late) picks, while Zach requires an asset to move… and the asset poor Bulls are unlikely to be willing to attach an asset simply to move his salary.

[FriedRise]

I really like NY's team, but that is an insane price for Bridges.
19 ppg 4 rpg 3 apg 43% FG 37% 3P
Not an all-nba defender.
Great team now, but damn that's the last move they'll make for 7 years.

What's even more insane is that if OKC didn't offer Giddey, NY would probably have had both Mikal & Caruso. They were the team offering 2 picks this year for AC. Neither of those picks were used in the Mikal trade, both could have happened.

That FO knows how to go all-in.

I fault our FO, not because they didn't tank (I hate tanking), but because they refused to go all-in after that first year. It was apparent what we needed after Zo went down, but they were content doing just tiny piddly moves for the next 3 years, adding very little to the roster. They don't care about draft picks, yet they chose to keep all of them past 2025.

Super passive, no creativity whatsoever, and they're only doing the bare minimum listening to calls and what other teams are offering them.

[Chi town]

If Rockets trade for Durant and include Sengun they are crazy.

[ChiefILL53]

Also...there's NO way Zach isn't worth a 1st. Bridges is an obviously better defender, but Zach is a much better scorer. Someone is trying to manipulate the media to get the message out about Zach having no value.

Situations are different, we're not trying to trade Zach for value back. We're trying to salary dump Zach. When salary dumping, the dumping team gives the other team something (usually a 1st) not the other way around. And this is a $40M, long term contract.

KC has been our best source of info and he phrased the FO goal as "a successful season for Chicago would have involved the ball club managing to get off the contract of injured star guard Zach LaVine." He hasn't phrased the FO goals as "maximizing Lavine's return value."

Another report mentioned deals for Lavine were in place, the FO is just worried about the return perception. That smells like a salary dump. Plus we've only seriously talked to teams with major cap space, the Pistons & Philly.

You make good points, but I'm not sure they're trying to salary dump zach, but also prolly arent trying to completely get value back for him. Knowing that plans really dont leak out of this FO, I'm not sure I'm believing any reports outside of KC. I think they'd be better off getting one 1st for Zach even if they're trying to just get his contract off the books. We dont really have the assets to give away in a straight up dump. I think they're worried about perception on a return not because it's a dump, but because it might be clear that the players coming back aren't up and coming names that the fans feel they should have gotten.

Sidenote: Am I the only one that didnt realize today is the draft? Isn't it normally on a Thurs? I know they've moved to 2 days, but I thought it was Thur-Fri

[Wingy]

While it is an overpay, folks I think are underrating both the financial aspects along with the fit aspects.

Brides makes 23.3 M this year, 24.9 M. 4-45% less than Zach. He put up nearly 20 ppg last season on a bad team on middling but not bad efficiency, proving that he can be a #1 on a bad team… or a #2 on a good/great team. The year prior, he was insane after the trade, putting up 26 ppg on superstar efficiency over 27 games… but that is the impact of being out of the running. Mikal also has shown that, despite being able to be the #1, he has no problem being complementary and playing primarily off-ball.

Let’s say that NY does resign OG, keeps Randle, losses Hartenstein but signs a competent backup C for Robinson - maybe even a ring chaser type. They bring back Achiwa and also sign, let’s say, Theis (Thibs would love him).

Look at this team:

Brunson-McBride-(Milton)
Bridges-DiVincenzo-Milton
OG-(Bridges)-Hart
Randle-(OG)-(Precious)
Robinson-Precious-Theis-Sims

Plus 2 late first draft picks in a top-weak-but-actually-pretty-deep-mid-first-talent draft…

They were among the best teams in the East after the OG trade, prior to his injury (with others hurt, too). Adding Bridges to that, even if losing Hartenstein…. They can push Boston, absolutely.

Zach just isn’t comparable. Far less defense, far more injury risk, far more bball personality risks, far more money.

We see this situation the same by the looks, and to add more perspective neither of us did in our posts -

The value deals of Brunson + Bridges + yes, even Randle at this stage means they are still $52.3+ million below the dreaded 2nd apron.

If OG took the 5 year/$200 million suggested here:
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5589801/2024/06/25/knicks-og-anunoby-free-agency/#

I believe that lets them actually keep Hartenstein too at the max they can possibly pay him (or damn close to it)…and they’d still be below the 2nd apron unless I’m missing some detail.

Finding a player of Bridges ability, fit, and impact that also allows for that financial situation is nigh impossible.

[ChiefILL53]

I honestly dont think Mitchell would be a good fit on the knicks anyway. A lot of that offense is Brunson goin to work. DM would take the ball out of his hands...and not give it back.

I’ll admit I’m not a fan of Mitchell. Huge talent, and one of the best team floor raisers out there. I also think he hard caps your ceiling. Basically a poor man’s Luka. Not in terms of exact game, but how much he controls the ball and w/o Luka’s passing chops. He’s amazing, but I don’t think he fits well on a true contender, multi-offensive star team (unless you’re talking a very specific pairing with Joker, or healthy Giannis, magically healthy Embiid).

Yea, watching some of the games in the magic series annoyed me to no end. The way he was just pounding the air out of the ball to take a bad shot or not passing it to open teammates to take the shot himself lol. I was so confused watching the games and completely understood if the reports of Garland wanting out were true. I wouldnt wanna play with him either.

[DASMACKDOWN]

If Rockets trade for Durant and include Sengun they are crazy.

No way they are doing that. But some GM's are stupid. That would be like the Spurs trading Wemby for Dame Lillard.