NBA Trade Thread #13

[Chi town]

WT: Seems inevitable Kuminga will be a King.

[Dez]

So again. The fact that his contract is $12 mill this year is not advantageous? Every contender that's in the tax and at/over the apron would prefer he had more guaranteed years at market value, let's say $30 mill? No contender that would be trading for him this year is really focused on what he could bring this year, for the low low price of $12 mill. There are just a ton of guys that are proven 20 pt scorers and three point threats a contender could add for $12 mill right now.

Everybody has their own opinion. If the Bulls move Coby to net only a late protected first, I'd be surprised. Better to keep him, imo.

If Coby White was on a 3yr/$90 mill, $30 mill AAV contract, I don't think that would be more attractive to as many teams.

What picks do contenders have? Late firsts.

What are you even arguing?

Which contenders are we talking about? How do you know any pick you trade will be a late pick? What are you even arguing about? I was talking about Coby's relative value and for some reason people want to attach and eliminate specific teams. That's impossible. Picks will likely change hands before the deadline. Players will likely be traded before the deadline. Team needs will change due to injuries before the deadline. Plus absolutely nobody in here knows which teams the GM's like, love, or hate Coby White as a player. It's not like he has to be traded today.

I would imagine some contenders (like the Rockets) have other teams first round picks. But I'm not going over every potential team, because I have no idea which teams will be interested over the next few months.

People went from two late firsts, to one protected first, to I guess we just give him away and get nothing back. The Bulls are not going to do that, imo. If you think the Bulls will trade Coby for a package where a likely late round pick is the best return, more power to you.

I'm not sure how you're not grasping that his value as an expiring contract is minimal because teams aren't going to want to burn assets on a streaky rental potentially having to overpay significantly to keep him.

I'm not saying the Bulls will trade him for late firsts, that's just you putting words in my mouth.

The Bulls will do what they usually do, sit on their hands and opt for continuity.

[Infinity2152]

What picks do contenders have? Late firsts.

What are you even arguing?

Which contenders are we talking about? How do you know any pick you trade will be a late pick? What are you even arguing about? I was talking about Coby's relative value and for some reason people want to attach and eliminate specific teams. That's impossible. Picks will likely change hands before the deadline. Players will likely be traded before the deadline. Team needs will change due to injuries before the deadline. Plus absolutely nobody in here knows which teams the GM's like, love, or hate Coby White as a player. It's not like he has to be traded today.

I would imagine some contenders (like the Rockets) have other teams first round picks. But I'm not going over every potential team, because I have no idea which teams will be interested over the next few months.

People went from two late firsts, to one protected first, to I guess we just give him away and get nothing back. The Bulls are not going to do that, imo. If you think the Bulls will trade Coby for a package where a likely late round pick is the best return, more power to you.

I'm not sure how you're not grasping that his value as an expiring contract is minimal because teams aren't going to want to burn assets on a streaky rental potentially having to overpay significantly to keep him.

I'm not saying the Bulls will trade him for late firsts, that's just you putting words in my mouth.

The Bulls will do what they usually do, sit on their hands and opt for continuity.

I'm not sure how you're not grasping the concept that every team is not looking for the same thing financially. Do you really think no team would prefer to have say $30+ mill extra cap space (Coby's estimated market value) in the summer than having that money locked up? Your logic skips the fact that Coby is underpaid right now. An extended contract at market rate, he'd be locked in to at least $20-$30 mill for this year and next. Then you all give absolutely no value to the fact that he' making $12 mill this year instead of $25 mill. That's $13 mill real dollars on the real world and real cap impact. That means a team adding an additional $13-20 mill to get an equivalent player this year is of minimal value.

Say you're the Rockets. You want to add a Coby type player, 20 pt scoring guard. The four players you're looking are Coby White, Anfernee Simons, Jordan Poole, Jalen Green. You want to use different comps, please list them.

Trade for Coby: $12 mill, give up Jabari Smith and picks, pay or NOT pay Coby in the summer, team has a choice.

Trade for Simons, $27.7 mill, give up Jabari Smith. You need another $16 million worth of players, and picks. So DFS AND another player. Simons is also expiring, pay or NOT pay in the summer, team has a choice.
Also gave up 2-3 players, so add more cap for your new 14th-15th players you need to add from the scrap heap

Trade for Green: $33.3 mill, give up Jabari Smith. You need another $21 mill. So DFS and Sheppard, or 3-4 more players. But you have Green locked up for 2 more years at $36 mill AAV. What if he has a bad year and you now think his $36 mill is a massive overpay. You're stuck. Also need to add 2-3 players and pay them.

Not even going to do Poole, Rockets would give up even more, lose more players, and have to add mins and two-ways to replace them in a contention year.

For the Rockets, I would say all those contracts are worse than Coby's. Coby would also get us more picks in the deal because the Rockets are sending less players. A contending team may prefer to send more picks than current players already familiar with their system they have to replace.




That's just one team. Every team's financial situation is different. Would you rather when we traded for Giddey he had a 4 yr locked up contract at $25-$30 mill/per, rather than we have a year to see him before paying him? We're not even contending, but it's great we had the time to see him and negotiate with him, he could have been at $25- $30 mill AAV when he got here if already locked into 4 yrs.

This totally skips the facts that a contender team trading for Coby NOW would be more worried about his player and financial impact much more THIS year than next or in the future. Rebuilding teams focus on long term contracts. Van Fleet, Lillard, Haliburton, Irving etc could all be fully healthy or not next year. That would probably impact if those teams were deciding whether or not to bring Coby back, how much they're willing to pay him, or try to get some assets in a S&T. They'll know far more next summer.

You jumped in the conversation talking about what do contenders have, late picks. Responding to my statement if the Bulls move Coby for a late first, I'd be surprised I assume. Now I'm putting words in your mouth because you didn't say the Bulls would trade him for a late first. Why are you even talking about contenders only have late picks (which is not true), if it's not referring to the conversation? In your own words? You just trying to give me incorrect information? Celtics had tons of good picks when they were contending, OKC has some now. Rockets have some. Spurs probably have some.

Teams aren't going to want to burn assets on a streaky rental? The same summer similar players Jalen Green and Anfernee Simons were traded for assets. Simons is actually expiring too, and Coby's better than both. Guess Jrue Holiday and Kevin Durant are not good assets. I'd take either one happily. Simons and Green were the primary trade components to get them. Keep telling me what teams won't trade for. They could potentially underpay as easily as overpay to keep him, that goes both ways. We just did it with Giddey, imo. After renting for a year, granted he was an RFA, but we had to negotiate a contract in the summer and we gave up Caruso to do so.

Streaky. Primarily shoots jumpshots, over half his shots are 3's. 37%or better from 3 the last three years, TS% 60, 57, 57. He's no streakier than most players where half their shots are 3 pointers. They can miss 6 of 10 3 pt shots and still shoot 40% from 3. They all miss more shots per game. He averaged 7.9 3PA shots on 15.1 shot attempts last year.

[Infinity2152]

Just for fun, let's imagine the Bucks are desperate to help Giannis. Who would be in favor of this trade?

Bulls send out: Coby White 12.8 mill, Patrick Williams $18 mill $30.8 mill

We buyout Jevon Carter before and he signs with the Bucks for vet min after the deal

Bucks send out: Kyle Kuzma $22.4 mill, Kevin porter $5.1, Ryan Rollins $4 mill $31.5 mill, 2026 1st, 2030 1st, 2032 1st

We take a step back. Those picks are likely to be low, the first two are pick swaps where the Bucks lose. Kuzma is a better PF than Williams and Williams would probably be a better SF for the Bucks than Kuzma. Kuzma's contract goes down $2 mill in 2026 then expires.

I think the Bucks would likely be much better. We get rid of Williams contract, add 3 draft picks as trade assets, Porter is expiring and has been good at times, and Rollins is a 23 yr old cheap guard we'd carry into 2026 when the whole team is expiring. Ride the season out with Huerter as starting SG, and use all those picks and expirings to add a star.

[jnrjr79]

Just for fun, let's imagine the Bucks are desperate to keep Giannis. Who would be in favor of this trade?

Bulls send out: Coby White 12.8 mill, Patrick Williams $18 mill $30.8 mill

We buyout Jevon Carter before and he signs with the Bucks for vet min after the deal

Bucks send out: Kyle Kuzma $22.4 mill, Kevin porter $5.1, Ryan Rollins $4 mill $31.5 mill, 2026 1st, 2030 1st, 2032 1st

We take a step back. Those picks are likely to be low, the first two are pick swaps where the Bucks lose. Kuzma is a better PF than Williams and Williams would probably be a better SF for the Bulls than Kuzma. Kuzma's contract goes down $2 mill in 2026 then expires.

I think the Bucks would likely be much better. We get rid of Williams contract, add 3 draft picks as trade assets, Porter is expiring and has been good at times, and Rollins is a 23 yr old cheap guard we'd carry into 2026 when the whole team is expiring. Ride the season out with Huerter as starting SG, and use all those picks and expirings to add a star.

This is tough, because it would hinder the 2026 cap space plan (though I doubt they'll really meaningfully use that potential cap space by signign free agents next offseason).

The 2032 pick is the only unencumbered one. The other two are subject to swap rights that will probably mean they aren't great picks. The 2032 could certainly be a good one, as you're probably in a post-Giannis universe at that point.

Kuzma sucks, but you're getting some pretty decent cap relief by getting off of a couple years of Pat's deal.

Interesting idea - particularly if you're the Bulls and you don't intend to pay Coby $30+ million this offseason (though my guess is they actually do intend to pay him).

[Infinity2152]

Just for fun, let's imagine the Bucks are desperate to keep Giannis. Who would be in favor of this trade?

Bulls send out: Coby White 12.8 mill, Patrick Williams $18 mill $30.8 mill

We buyout Jevon Carter before and he signs with the Bucks for vet min after the deal

Bucks send out: Kyle Kuzma $22.4 mill, Kevin porter $5.1, Ryan Rollins $4 mill $31.5 mill, 2026 1st, 2030 1st, 2032 1st

We take a step back. Those picks are likely to be low, the first two are pick swaps where the Bucks lose. Kuzma is a better PF than Williams and Williams would probably be a better SF for the Bulls than Kuzma. Kuzma's contract goes down $2 mill in 2026 then expires.

I think the Bucks would likely be much better. We get rid of Williams contract, add 3 draft picks as trade assets, Porter is expiring and has been good at times, and Rollins is a 23 yr old cheap guard we'd carry into 2026 when the whole team is expiring. Ride the season out with Huerter as starting SG, and use all those picks and expirings to add a star.

This is tough, because it would hinder the 2026 cap space plan (though I doubt they'll really meaningfully use that potential cap space by signign free agents next offseason).

The 2032 pick is the only unencumbered one. The other two are subject to swap rights that will probably mean they aren't great picks. The 2032 could certainly be a good one, as you're probably in a post-Giannis universe at that point.

Kuzma sucks, but you're getting some pretty decent cap relief by getting off of a couple years of Pat's deal.

Interesting idea - particularly if you're the Bulls and you don't intend to pay Coby $30+ million this offseason (though my guess is they actually do intend to pay him).

Yeah, I'm not the biggest proponent of moving good players for picks, especially picks expected to be low. The only real value to me would be as trade pieces. The upgrade from Williams to Kuzma, plus the cap relief coming plus the picks, give us a lot of future flexibility. Rollins could be another useful trade piece. I'll agree Coby's value to us is less as an expiring, whether we have a good SG this year doesn't mean much.

It would add like $6 mill to the 2026 cap space, $4 mill for Rollins and Kuzma at $20 instead of Pat at $18 mill. We'd have an extra guard (Rollins) with most of that increase, we probably spend at least $4 mill for that spot anyway. Frees up a lot of space for 2027 and more importantly 2028, when we have to pay Matas.


Think it would let us retain much of Coby's asset value without re-signing him and give us more flexibility and time to make that big move, since those picks could be here past this summer.

[kodo]

If I replace AK, then the team bottoms out so a Coby for Kuzma + picks trade works because Kuzma is one of the worst players in the league who plays consistently. About 220 players logged 60 games, Kuzma and PWill are in the bottom 20 of those players in TS%. So we'd have two of the worst on our Bulls team, which is perfect for tanking. But to really tank you would need to get rid of Giddey, he's been by far and away the biggest driver of wins both on +/- and on raw boxscore stats.

If I work for AK like Marc, I couldn't trade Coby for Kuzma because it clearly hurts our winning capability this season, and picks are about the future which doesn't seem to matter to our VP.

[Infinity2152]

If I replace AK, then the team bottoms out so a Coby for Kuzma + picks trade works because Kuzma is one of the worst players in the league who plays consistently. About 220 players logged 60 games, Kuzma and PWill are in the bottom 20 of those players in TS%. So we'd have two of the worst on our Bulls team, which is perfect for tanking. But to really tank you would need to get rid of Giddey, he's been by far and away the biggest driver of wins both on +/- and on raw boxscore stats.

If I work for AK like Marc, I couldn't trade Coby for Kuzma because it clearly hurts our winning capability this season, and picks are about the future which doesn't seem to matter to our VP.

Williams or similar salary would pretty much have to go in the trade too. Coby makes $12 mill, Kuzma $22 mill and their contract situation is very top heavy, almost no mid contracts.

Huerter, Vucevic or Collins could probably work, but without taking Pat's contract, the Bucks really don't have enough to offer. The three picks alone are not enough, imo.

To be a little fair to Kuzma, putting him next to Giannis is kind of idiotic to me. Both are best at PF, neither shoots well, Kuzma just shouldn't play SF period. Matas shoots a lot better than Giannis, Kuzma would be back at PF next to Matas at SF I'd think. Him vs Pat Will, I'd rather watch Kuzma suck, lmao! At least he's trying! Or bring him off the bench like Pat and start Okoro or Essengue.

[Dez]

Coby's contract is irrelevant as an expiring, the Rockets aren't giving up a higher upside and younger player who is locked up for 5 years let alone adding picks for your run of the mill combo guard especially if he's a rental.

[Infinity2152]

Coby's contract is irrelevant as an expiring, the Rockets aren't giving up a higher upside and younger player who is locked up for 5 years let alone adding picks for your run of the mill combo guard especially if he's a rental.

Ok. Proof for any of your statements other than opinion. What higher upside player locked up for 5 years? Run of the mill players average 20 in the NBA? Games would be 200-190 then. A small percentage of guys are consistent 20 pt scorers in the league, most max players. Name the run of the mill players averaging 20 pts and how much they make.

How about this? Explain how they add another 20 point scorer while giving up little or nothing. A ton of players have been traded as expiring with the intention of re-signing with the same team. It happens every year. And picks are often included in trades for expiring players.

Rockets are going to waste a year of KD they just traded a lot to get to preserve future picks and rookies in a window of contention. Great idea.

[Dez]

So one season of 20 points a game is consistent 20 point scorer? Interesting.

Scoring is heavily inflated in this era, averaging 20 isn't the rare feat it use to be.

Jabari Smith Jr is a higher upside player locked up for 5 years.

They have Sengun and KD as the first and second option with internal development from guys like Amen Thompson, Reed Sheppard, Jabari Smith Jr, Tari Eason and Cam Whitmore to fill the void.

Coby isn't a need for them and they have no reason to mortgage the future with the young players they have.

Just because they have KD doesn't mean they need to burn assets. They'll be a better more rounded team with the guys they have than moving them for anything short of a star.

[jnrjr79]

So one season of 20 points a game is consistent 20 point scorer? Interesting.

Scoring is heavily inflated in this era, averaging 20 isn't the rare feat it use to be.

Jabari Smith Jr is a higher upside player locked up for 5 years.

They have Sengun and KD as the first and second option with internal development from guys like Amen Thompson, Reed Sheppard, Jabari Smith Jr, Tari Eason and Cam Whitmore to fill the void.

Coby isn't a need for them and they have no reason to mortgage the future with the young players they have.

Just because they have KD doesn't mean they need to burn assets. They'll be a better more rounded team with the guys they have than moving them for anything short of a star.

I have no idea what they might offer for Coby, but IMO it’s kinda crazy to say that having KD doesn’t create pressure for them to trade for something now, and it seems to be the general consensus among the plugged-in NBA media types that they’ll pursue some sort of FVV replacement at some point before the deadline.

[Infinity2152]

We can play the word games, he averaged 19.1 the season before. Again, if it's so easy, what percentage of players are actually doing it? You don't think every NBA player wants to average 20 (or 19.1 )

They traded for Kevin Durant. Can we agree KD is now their starting PF? He's not moving to SF at 36? Serious question, not trying to fight, don't you think that's going to limit Smith's minutes and his value to the team? When they signed Jabari Smith to that $122 mill extension, they didn't have KD. They traded guards to get a PF. This would be the reverse to fix the hole.

I think I understand how you would run the team and what you would do. OK. They traded for KD with the intention of contending and then lost Van Fleet. You seem to think very little of Coby and that ok. I won't ignore his actual numbers by saying other guys can do it too, most of them just aren't doing it. You appear to value those picks pretty highly. We haven't even settled on the picks or protections.

Coby would replace a lot of Van Fleet's ball handling, shooting and scoring. He's not just a shooter. The price is a young guy who is going to be benched and some future low value picks. The $30 mill you'd have to pay Coby next year, Smith was making $24 already anyway.

I asked you to presume the Rockets are actually trying to add someone who's averaged let's say 19 the last two years, how would they do it and what would it cost? You're operating from the position that winning is not a priority this year. I'll grant they can go without a starting PG, lose more games, and waste a year of KD. That's not nothing, he's 36 and getting max. Coby would surely play way more minutes than Smith will. And Smith is not getting near 20 on that team with KD there.

They're not adding a scorer whether it's Coby or not without giving up something valuable. Teams are not just giving away 19-20 pt scorers, there's a reason why the common projection for Coby is $30 mill next year, even though you're calling him run of the mill. That's not run of the mill guard money.

Tre Jones got run of the mill guard money. Ayo. Jevon Carter.

[jnrjr79]

We can play the word games, he averaged 19.1 the season before. Again, if it's so easy, what percentage of players are actually doing it? You don't think every NBA player wants to average 20 (or 19.1 )

20 PPG might not be what is used to be, but only 34 players crossed that threshold last season, so it’s still pretty significant, as that’s not much more than 1 per team.

Just for fun, I Googled the stats for 1997, and 22 players were over 20 PPG.

[Infinity2152]

We can play the word games, he averaged 19.1 the season before. Again, if it's so easy, what percentage of players are actually doing it? You don't think every NBA player wants to average 20 (or 19.1 )

20 PPG might not be what is used to be, but only 34 players crossed that threshold last season, so it’s still pretty significant, as that’s not much more than 1 per team.

Just for fun, I Googled the stats for 1997, and 22 players were over 20 PPG.

Thanks. I've watched NBA players lose their minds when people, especially other players who never did it, say it's easy to score 20PPG in the NBA for an entire season. NBA players are the best players in the world mostly, top .01, and most will never achieve it even one season.

Then consider several teams have two or maybe even three of those 34 players.

[Dez]

So one season of 20 points a game is consistent 20 point scorer? Interesting.

Scoring is heavily inflated in this era, averaging 20 isn't the rare feat it use to be.

Jabari Smith Jr is a higher upside player locked up for 5 years.

They have Sengun and KD as the first and second option with internal development from guys like Amen Thompson, Reed Sheppard, Jabari Smith Jr, Tari Eason and Cam Whitmore to fill the void.

Coby isn't a need for them and they have no reason to mortgage the future with the young players they have.

Just because they have KD doesn't mean they need to burn assets. They'll be a better more rounded team with the guys they have than moving them for anything short of a star.

I have no idea what they might offer for Coby, but IMO it’s kinda crazy to say that having KD doesn’t create pressure for them to trade for something now, and it seems to be the general consensus among the plugged-in NBA media types that they’ll pursue some sort of FVV replacement at some point before the deadline.

That's not what I said though, I said mortgage the future with their younger players by burning their assets on anything short of a star.

Coby is not a star nor is he a FVV replacement, completely different fit than FVV.

[Dominator83]

It wasn't a direct comparison, it was an example of a win now team paying a premium. We're talking about 5 picks vs 2 picks. Teams make what seem to be crazy money and pick moves. I could literally do 10 more easily, Lillard trade both times, Luka trade, PG contract got $211 mill in 2024, Bradley Beal trade both times, Jeremi Grant 5yrs/$160 mill, hell Zac Lavine 5yrs/$215 mill, Quickley 5yrs/$162.5 mill. Jordan Poole 4yrs/$128 mill. OKC gave Chet Holgrem max and Caruso $20 mill to play part time off the bench., headscratcher. Most of these in the last few years. I hate when people talk in absolutes because it's not rare for teams to seemingly overpay for players, it's actually common. It happens all the time.

The trick is once in a while, try to be the team that really wins the deal, lol. Too often, feels like we lost a deal or barely broke even. Since we don't have to trade Coby, we should only do so in a deal where we feel like we clearly win. Tired of lateral moves.

I'd trade Vuc, Huerter or Collins for whatever we could get, for instance. With Coby, need to get the most we can get.

If the point here is that teams occasionally overpay in trades and that the Bulls should capitalize on that if they have such an opportunity, I agree.

(one quibble - the Caruso contract is good, actually)

Caruso contract is good in what sense? Financially? I don't think it would be incredibly hard to replace Caruso's contributions with 2 $10 mill players like Tre Jones and Okoro. He averaged 7pts, 3 rbs, 2.5 assists, played under 20 minutes and only played 54 games. he's pretty regularly injured even as a bench player, 3 seasons of over 60 games. OKC still wins the championship without Caruso, imo. But that's kind of my point. He might be worth it to OKC for the $20 mill despite all that, he would not be worth it to us imo.

Not saying most teams are offering great deals. Looking to move in two years, I'm scouring the market now for great deals in the area. Since I have time, it's almost guaranteed I'm going to get a great deal, I'm not accepting anything less. While we have time, shop for the best deal. best thing is to create the opportunity if you can. Don't know much about AK's personal style, he seems to be aggressive as a buyer, getting players he wants. Not so aggressive as a seller, creating deals. When we decide to trade away players we don't often get much.

Coby's a good-great starting NBA SG. Not the best pairing with Giddey, but he's pretty damn good. Good guy, good scorer, great shooter, can create on ball. I don't see why a lot of teams wouldn't value him, especially if they have a defensive PG.

Caruso has a funny variance on this board. Last year, lots of people here that we "ONLY" got a 21 year old, recent #6 pick that had shown real flashes of real potential, for journeyman Caruso who only has value on contenders. Most here were crying that we didn't fleece Presti into adding 2nds, or that we didn't get 2 protected/late 1sts from GSW

I was one of the few that from day 1, was thrilled with that trade and thought we got a great deal. And unless Giddey goes back to early last years Giddey, its looking like it was a rare trade where both teams "won"

[Infinity2152]

Media is saying they are looking for a Fred Van Fleet replacement. That is not a star either. What exactly do you propose they are offering for a Fred Van Fleet replacement that's not "mortgaging their future"? No picks/young players? Most of the team is young players.

Van Fleet averaged 14 pts, 5.6 assists, 3.7 rebounds on 35% 3pt shooting in 35 minutes last year. He's a somewhat better defender than Coby, Coby's half the price. He can replace Van Fleet until Van Fleet comes back.

[Dominator83]

It's crazy you can't have civil discussions in here, man. So many conversations end up in name-calling and insults, rather than just staying on basketball.

This is an odd concern to raise immediately after misrepresenting what someone said in their post.

I'm with that. I love discussing things my man, and I don't take it personal when people disagree with me. Dude called me disingenuous a few times. we're having a conversation bout Coby White's value, I said Coby's good to great and he lists a ton of max and super max players and says they're better than Coby. Then "well, I don't know what you mean when you say good to great, I thought it meant on the cusp of greatness." Curry, Ant Man, Lamelo, I forget the whole AllStar list, those are the guys I meant right. Not guys like Brandon Ingram, Anfernee Simons, Jordan Poole, etc. Could have just asked.

I don’t need to ask what “good to great” means because it has a clear, plain meaning. If you meant something else, that’s you mis-describing Coby, not me misinterpreting the actual words. There is no reason you’d use the word “great” if you think he’s akin to Jordan Poole!

His contract doesn't matter. Even called it a net negative. What???? A contender that trades for him is worried about this year, right? Most contenders are over the cap and at or near the apron. So Coby would be more tradeable to a contender if he was making $30 mill right now but had 3 more years on his contract? They have to trade $30 mill worth of assets to acquire him, he's now $30 mill on their cap. That would be better?

Again, if you actually read what I posted before resorting to invective, I think you’d see what I’m saying. Coby’s contract has nothing to do with whether he’s “good to great.” When talking about whether a player is good or not, that discussion is purely about basketball performance. Of course, that basketball performance is just one element of his overall trade value, but the contract itself is unrelated to whether he’s a good player.

The idea that money doesn't matter in the NBA, lmao! A $60k Trailblazer is great for a $60k truck, but it won't look great next to a $240k Porsche truck. The fact that Coby only cost $12 mill this year is not advantageous at all? Every contender would prefer to add more guaranteed money on the books, rather than getting him for super cheap and auditioning him before paying him?

Well, that’s a pretty strawman you constructed there, isn’t it? Of course money matters. But enjoy debating arguments nobody is making if that’s your thing.

Matter of fact makes me think even better that we have Coby. Whether we have to pay him his market value next summer, I think we've gotten a hell of a bargain at $12 mill and he'll be a great bargain this year for us. Coby's contract was almost as good as Pat Will's is bad, lol.

Coby is cheap and has vastly outperformed his deal. But his contract is now a net-negative as a trade asset due to the (stupid, IMO) restrictions on how much you can extend him for. The Bulls are basically being punished for having signed him to such a favorable deal. Any team trading for him inherits this problem. There’s a reason they call guys you can only control for one year “rentals,” and inherent in that concept is renting is cheaper than buying, so if you’re trading for a rental, you’re going to pay less than you would if you were acquiring a player under team control.

Which player has more trade value: Coby at 1 year, $12 million, then a UFA, or Coby at 4 years, $25M/year? It’s obviously the latter!

Totally agree. its absolute Bullcrap that we're not allowed to offer Coby an extension, at whatever rate. Hes been here for 6 years now and we have his full bird rights. Why can't we negotaite any dollar amount?

[Infinity2152]

Yeah, that is messed up we can't offer Coby a fair extension. He's been here his whole career and we pretty much have to trade him or let him go t free agency, even if he wants to stay. Unless he takes a huge discount.

This expiring contracts are worth nothing, or not worth late firsts to any team in the league. Coby, Ayo, Vucevic, Collins, Huerter, Jevon Carter are all expiring. Do they all have equal trade value? We shouldn't expect we'd get more trading Coby than Carter since their contracts are both net negative?

I don't think most teams pursue players because of their contracts, but because they fit what they are looking for. Contenders are targeting good players, not best contracts. Contracts determine how hard it is to get and/or keep those players. Coby's contract allows a contender to add a 19-20 pt scoring guard at a third of the price of his comparable peers, and worry about the money next year. Much harder for a contender to add a $30 mill player this year, even if his contract is guaranteed the next year or two. There are pros and cons to both sides.

I'm actually fine with keeping Coby even though I hate uncertainty. It's kind of grimy to have a player play well 4 years, longer really, on a relatively cheap contract, then trade them as soon as it's time to pay them market rate. Don't see us as legit contenders anytime soon, and Coby's a fun Bull to root for.