Around The NBA: 2019-20 RESTART

[Andi Obst]

2016 Curry was certainly a bad ass. If Lillard had as much help though, he might have had a pretty similar season.

Totally get that Curry had more help, but I think 2016 Curry thrives on this Portland team as well. The guy who shot an otherworldly 45% on 11 threes a game running high PnRs with Nurkic all game? Yes please! He would probably take even more threes (which he probably should have anyway). That Curry season was just something else IMO, real video game stuff. 30 PPG on 50/45/90, 5 threes a game, lead the Warriors to 73 regular season wins all while still being an unselfish team-first kind of guy. He made scoring against NBA defenses look like the easiest thing in the world.

[dougthonus]

Curry is a significantly better shooter than Lillard and a better passer as well.

Prime Curry is way ahead of current Dame.

If we're talking about this past year, Lillard's 8 assists per game, with weaker options next to him, would beat all but one of Steph Curry's seasons in terms of passing (he had 8.5 once and only one other season over 7). Hard for me to see the argument that Curry is a better passer. Maybe similar, but not better.

When looking at shooting, Curry's percentages are a touch better, but if you compare the type of shots, Lillard this season has had a much tougher situation getting only 10% of his threes on catch and shoots vs 35% for Curry last year and 24% in his best season. Curry's highest percentage shot by far is the catch and shoot and getting 2-3x as many of those very high percentage looks accounts for a lot of the difference in their overall shooting percentage.

In terms of scoring Lillard averaged more points per game this year than all but one of Curry's seasons as well (and Curry was 30.1 vs 30.0 so effectively the same), but Lillard did it with less help around him than Curry did. Curry had the edge in efficiency in his best season vs Lillard this year, but Lillard this year was around Curry's prime average for efficiency, so is obviously no slouch.

I'll grant that Curry at his absolute peak was definitely the better player, but Lillard's this year would probably trump any year Curry has had other than 2015/16.

[Andi Obst]

When looking at shooting, Curry's percentages are a touch better, but if you compare the type of shots, Lillard this season has had a much tougher situation getting only 10% of his threes on catch and shoots vs 35% for Curry last year and 24% in his best season. Curry's highest percentage shot by far is the catch and shoot and getting 2-3x as many of those very high percentage looks accounts for a lot of the difference in their overall shooting percentage.

While the higher number of catch and shoot attempts certainly tells you something about the help Curry had, it should not be forgotten that his off-ball movement is probably the best ever and a huge reason that he even gets so many of these shots. He's ALWAYS moving without the ball. Of course better teammates help, but his movement can draw the attention of an entire defense even when Curry doesn't have the ball. That movement alone made those Warriors teams so much better on offense.

[dougthonus]

When looking at shooting, Curry's percentages are a touch better, but if you compare the type of shots, Lillard this season has had a much tougher situation getting only 10% of his threes on catch and shoots vs 35% for Curry last year and 24% in his best season. Curry's highest percentage shot by far is the catch and shoot and getting 2-3x as many of those very high percentage looks accounts for a lot of the difference in their overall shooting percentage.

While the higher number of catch and shoot attempts certainly tells you something about the help Curry had, it should not be forgotten that his off-ball movement is probably the best ever and a huge reason that he even gets so many of these shots. He's ALWAYS moving without the ball. Of course better teammates help, but his movement can draw the attention of an entire defense even when Curry doesn't have the ball. That movement alone made those Warriors teams so much better on offense.

Agreed, 24% is also ridiculously low for a shooter too. Very few players are under 50%. Curry is still a bad ass by this statistic. Lillard doesn't have the same threats around him to do so much off the ball, but they are probably 1 and 2 in terms of amount of three point shots created off the dribble.

[TheSuzerain]

Curry is a significantly better shooter than Lillard and a better passer as well.

Prime Curry is way ahead of current Dame.

If we're talking about this past year, Lillard's 8 assists per game, with weaker options next to him, would beat all but one of Steph Curry's seasons in terms of passing (he had 8.5 once and only one other season over 7). Hard for me to see the argument that Curry is a better passer. Maybe similar, but not better.

When looking at shooting, Curry's percentages are a touch better, but if you compare the type of shots, Lillard this season has had a much tougher situation getting only 10% of his threes on catch and shoots vs 35% for Curry last year and 24% in his best season. Curry's highest percentage shot by far is the catch and shoot and getting 2-3x as many of those very high percentage looks accounts for a lot of the difference in their overall shooting percentage.

In terms of scoring Lillard averaged more points per game this year than all but one of Curry's seasons as well (and Curry was 30.1 vs 30.0 so effectively the same), but Lillard did it with less help around him than Curry did. Curry had the edge in efficiency in his best season vs Lillard this year, but Lillard this year was around Curry's prime average for efficiency, so is obviously no slouch.

I'll grant that Curry at his absolute peak was definitely the better player, but Lillard's this year would probably trump any year Curry has had other than 2015/16.

Curry's percentages aren't a touch better. They are significantly better from 3. This is Lillard's first year above 40% at 40.1%. Historically, Lillard has consistently been a 37% shooter from deep.

Curry's career low in a season is 41%.

[dougthonus]

Curry's percentages aren't a touch better. They are significantly better from 3. This is Lillard's first year above 40% at 40.1%. Historically, Lillard has consistently been a 37% shooter from deep.

Curry's career low in a season is 41%.

I specifically compared Lillard this year to Curry. Not Lillard's career to Curry. I agree that historically Curry's percentages are much better. Curry also takes easier shots which is hilarious to say, because Lillard literally might be the only volume player in the league taking more difficult shots. However, I think it does account for the 3.5% difference in their shooting between this year and Curry's typical year.

Again, statistically, I'd say this season of Lillard is probably Curry's second or third best year in his career if he had it. Given the amount of additional talent around Curry and Lillard's ability in the clutch, I think Lillard's just up there and not significantly less.

[MrSparkle]

Curry's percentages aren't a touch better. They are significantly better from 3. This is Lillard's first year above 40% at 40.1%. Historically, Lillard has consistently been a 37% shooter from deep.

Curry's career low in a season is 41%.

I specifically compared Lillard this year to Curry. Not Lillard's career to Curry. I agree that historically Curry's percentages are much better. Curry also takes easier shots which is hilarious to say, because Lillard literally might be the only volume player in the league taking more difficult shots. However, I think it does account for the 3.5% difference in their shooting between this year and Curry's typical year.

Again, statistically, I'd say this season of Lillard is probably Curry's second or third best year in his career if he had it. Given the amount of additional talent around Curry and Lillard's ability in the clutch, I think Lillard's just up there and not significantly less.

I've long maintained that while Curry did have the best 4-year stretch ever of any PG and deserved all the praise and MVPs... the way that Warriors team was built (even pre-Durant), you could've put any of the other superstar PGs in his place and watched them dominate. Lillard would be my best replacement, followed by Paul and lastly Kyrie (inevitable locker-room troubles).

[jc23]

lebron has a history of losing game 1's

[PaKii94]

Damian Lillard this year has been as good as Steph Curry ever has. If Lillard had Curry's cast the past five years, we'd be talking about him as an MVP.

As much as I like dame, I think that's a bit disrespectful to Curry. Curry was still a lot more efficient (and higher volume) at his peak compared to now. Also Curry's peak came at a time the league weren't all shooting 3s so he was much more of an extreme outlier compared to the general gameplay this year. The league has tilted towards scoring a lot more these last two years and efficiency has gone up too I believe.


2016 (p100):
1x 40+ppg (Curry @ 42.5)
6x 35+ppg

2020 (p100):
3x 40+ppg
13x 35+ppg (Dame @ 38.6)

2016 (p36):
1x 30+ppg (Curry @ 31.7)
6x 25+ppg

2020 (p36):
6x 30+ppg
17x 25+ppg (Dame @ 28.8)



It's kinda like the argument who is the better scorer? MJ or harden? Harden raw statistically has had superior seasons compared to MJ but when you compare how they stood against the league MJ was much more of an outlier during his time than harden is now.

As far as easier looks due to supporting cast, you could spin it the other way and say Curry would then have more usage if he had a worse shooting cast. His efficiency you would expect to dip but then he would still pull further ahead of dame in raw volume (while matching Dame's efficiency)

Also you say Curry has a small PPG advantage but if you look at their scoring rate (p100), a 3.9 ppg difference is still HUGE when talking about the top top tier differences.


I know you said peak curry vs 2020 same but this video is good to explain the gap

Watch on YouTube

[DASMACKDOWN]

I get so irritated watching the Nets because they have 2 players that I feel we should have kept.

Spencer Dinwiddie
Timmy Lu

[nitetrain8603]

Damian Lillard leads in almost all long-range categories, including a staggering 47%(!!!) from beyond 35 feet. This season, Lillard is 8-12 (67%) from what would be considered Logo Lillard range.
Steph Curry may have a better shooting percentage from 30-34 feet, but he also appears to be too scared to shoot from that range.
Lillard has 286 shots from 30+ feet to Curry’s 256… and he hasn’t been in the league as long.

https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/portland-trail-blazers/damian-lillard-has-better-range-steph-curry-and-numbers-prove-it?fbclid=IwAR3gb7FHrXPjjnK8xkV0_c_Wt8J0CU1q0ypnJYFDce-ARrcZocr_gi9E2xM

I'm taking Dame.

[MrSparkle]

I get so irritated watching the Nets because they have 2 players that I feel we should have kept.

Spencer Dinwiddie
Timmy Lu

Yeah, the Nets and Pacers are gonna miss GarPax.

Valentine, Dunn, Shaq -- their time is up in Chicago (IMO), but they'll be nice bargain-bin pickups for somebody too. Not fringe stars like Dinwiddie, but just more examples of Holiday, Doug, Luwawu-caliber bench players with particular specialties who wasted their time in the Chicago Tank/Log-Jam.

[dougthonus]

Damian Lillard this year has been as good as Steph Curry ever has. If Lillard had Curry's cast the past five years, we'd be talking about him as an MVP.

As much as I like dame, I think that's a bit disrespectful to Curry. Curry was still a lot more efficient (and higher volume) at his peak compared to now. Also Curry's peak came at a time the league weren't all shooting 3s so he was much more of an extreme outlier compared to the general gameplay this year. The league has tilted towards scoring a lot more these last two years and efficiency has gone up too I believe.


2016 (p100):
1x 40+ppg (Curry @ 42.5)
6x 35+ppg

2020 (p100):
3x 40+ppg
13x 35+ppg (Dame @ 38.6)

2016 (p36):
1x 30+ppg (Curry @ 31.7)
6x 25+ppg

2020 (p36):
6x 30+ppg
17x 25+ppg (Dame @ 28.8)



It's kinda like the argument who is the better scorer? MJ or harden? Harden raw statistically has had superior seasons compared to MJ but when you compare how they stood against the league MJ was much more of an outlier during his time than harden is now.

As far as easier looks due to supporting cast, you could spin it the other way and say Curry would then have more usage if he had a worse shooting cast. His efficiency you would expect to dip but then he would still pull further ahead of dame in raw volume (while matching Dame's efficiency)

Also you say Curry has a small PPG advantage but if you look at their scoring rate (p100), a 3.9 ppg difference is still HUGE when talking about the top top tier differences.


I know you said peak curry vs 2020 same but this video is good to explain the gap

Watch on YouTube

I did amend my statement to say Curry's best year was clearly better than Lillard's, But Lillard's 19/20 would probably be Curry's 2nd or 3rd best season.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Levert is really struggling. Feel the Raptors are going to steal this one.

Levert is going to be kicking in his sleep tonight. Great setup game 10 asts but 5-20 is brutal.

[Chi town]

Fred Van Fleet is such a winner. Tough as nails. Makes everyone better.

If AK were able to somehow makes moves to get cap and sign him... the Bulls would be a competitive playoff team immediately.
I see no way Raps will let him go though. Him and Siakam are their future.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Jerami Grant is certainly going to be a nice free agent when the season ends. I would have rather given him 13 mil over Thad.

[Dresden]

Porter Jr with 12 points in 14 minutes so far, including 11 straight. Hit two 3's, one of them with someone right in his face, then got fed for a dunk and one, then pulled up for a foul line jumper.

[Dominator83]

Porter Jr with 12 points in 14 minutes so far, including 11 straight. Hit two 3's, one of them with someone right in his face, then got fed for a dunk and one, then pulled up for a foul line jumper.

The pain that Gar/Pax dishes out will go on for a very long time. Porter wanted badly to be here too. Instead we have a mediocre center, who's ceiling was mediocre to begin with, who can't play more than 50 games in a season

[NecessaryEvil]

Read on Twitter

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[Clocian]

Watching this 76ers/Boston game.

Think sixes make some big changes if they lose this series? Might get swept

What would it take to embiid I wonder

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