Lets talk Zach Lavine

[Hold That]

I want to see how Zach does under a year of coaching with Billy D before we trade him. Hell I’d be more pressed to trade Coby White and Lauri I feel they are what they are. Zach atleast shows improvement in multiple areas while the other two do not.

Either way if the Bulls feel like Zach has to go, I’d only be ok with a package along the lines of what the Warriors can offer maybe the rights to the Minnesota pick and Oubre for Zach if they are looking to move before trade deadline.

Zach would be perfect next to Curry & Klay, Wiggins can come off the bench in a Iggy type of role. And they already have a youngster in Wiseman. Not to mention Zach is still young but not too young where they have to wait on a development. Bulls would get a pick in the 4-8 range coupled with their own high lottery pick. Works out for both sides.

[dice]

Yep trade Zach so we then start looking for a player just like him whether in the draft or free agency and only a couple of years later, you want to trade that player and start this cycle again.

Lavine is having a close to career year and now playing really good at BOTH ends of the floor - so now we need to trade him?
I personally think we need a toughness inside and a consistent scorer next to Lavine who can take some load off of him and with BD as a coach, we would be looking at playoffs this year.

if your goal is to make the playoffs, sure, hang on to zach and try to achieve that not-so-lofty goal. otherwise, him playing well just raises his trade value

It almost seems like people want a "Perfect" player or if not, let's trade him.

zach is not in the same universe as a "perfect" player

[nitetrain8603]

Yep trade Zach so we then start looking for a player just like him whether in the draft or free agency and only a couple of years later, you want to trade that player and start this cycle again.

Lavine is having a close to career year and now playing really good at BOTH ends of the floor - so now we need to trade him?
I personally think we need a toughness inside and a consistent scorer next to Lavine who can take some load off of him and with BD as a coach, we would be looking at playoffs this year.

if your goal is to make the playoffs, sure, hang on to zach and try to achieve that not-so-lofty goal. otherwise, him playing well just raises his trade value

It almost seems like people want a "Perfect" player or if not, let's trade him.

zach is not in the same universe as a "perfect" player

This board has proven that no one here believes in a perfect player. It makes no sense to go ahead and trade Zach, especially with him improving again this year. You build on that, not let that go. Unless the plan is to trade for Harden and pair him up with others, then it makes no damn sense to trade Zach.

[Jcool0]

Bulls fans then: Trade Butler & start over. He can't lead a team far in the playoffs.

Bulls fans now: Trade Lavine & start over. He won't be able to lead this team far in the playoffs.

[DroseReturnChi]

Yep trade Zach so we then start looking for a player just like him whether in the draft or free agency and only a couple of years later, you want to trade that player and start this cycle again.

Lavine is having a close to career year and now playing really good at BOTH ends of the floor - so now we need to trade him?
I personally think we need a toughness inside and a consistent scorer next to Lavine who can take some load off of him and with BD as a coach, we would be looking at playoffs this year.

if your goal is to make the playoffs, sure, hang on to zach and try to achieve that not-so-lofty goal. otherwise, him playing well just raises his trade value

It almost seems like people want a "Perfect" player or if not, let's trade him.

zach is not in the same universe as a "perfect" player

is that you garpax?? no more playoff revenue JR wallet is blown up???
nobody cares abt career yr of non star. white is having a career yr so does otto porter but nobody wants to know.
And theres really nothing wrong selling expiring at an all time high. Your not winning anything with a washed up 30 yr old 200mil lavine.

[dice]

Yep trade Zach so we then start looking for a player just like him whether in the draft or free agency and only a couple of years later, you want to trade that player and start this cycle again.

Lavine is having a close to career year and now playing really good at BOTH ends of the floor - so now we need to trade him?
I personally think we need a toughness inside and a consistent scorer next to Lavine who can take some load off of him and with BD as a coach, we would be looking at playoffs this year.

if your goal is to make the playoffs, sure, hang on to zach and try to achieve that not-so-lofty goal. otherwise, him playing well just raises his trade value

It almost seems like people want a "Perfect" player or if not, let's trade him.

zach is not in the same universe as a "perfect" player

This board has proven that no one here believes in a perfect player.

huh?

It makes no sense to go ahead and trade Zach, especially with him improving again this year. You build on that, not let that go. Unless the plan is to trade for Harden and pair him up with others, then it makes no damn sense to trade Zach.

if you think you're going to have to pay him more than he's worth, then it makes perfect sense to trade him. even if you think he's all star caliber. obviously this team won't be contending while he's under his current deal

[dice]

Bulls fans then: Trade Butler & start over. He can't lead a team far in the playoffs.

Bulls fans now: Trade Lavine & start over. He won't be able to lead this team far in the playoffs.

comparing lavine to butler again?

lavine can't carry jimmy's jock

[WindyCityBorn]

Bulls fans then: Trade Butler & start over. He can't lead a team far in the playoffs.

Bulls fans now: Trade Lavine & start over. He won't be able to lead this team far in the playoffs.

comparing lavine to butler again?

lavine can't carry jimmy's jock

He will end up better. Hold me to that.

[Jcool0]

Bulls fans then: Trade Butler & start over. He can't lead a team far in the playoffs.

Bulls fans now: Trade Lavine & start over. He won't be able to lead this team far in the playoffs.

comparing lavine to butler again?

lavine can't carry jimmy's jock

[dice]

Bulls fans then: Trade Butler & start over. He can't lead a team far in the playoffs.

Bulls fans now: Trade Lavine & start over. He won't be able to lead this team far in the playoffs.

comparing lavine to butler again?

lavine can't carry jimmy's jock

i understood your point completely. it is a terrible one. and here's another way it's terrible: the bulls are starting over RIGHT NOW. with lavine!

[Jcool0]

comparing lavine to butler again?

lavine can't carry jimmy's jock

i understood your point completely. it is a terrible one. and here's another way it's terrible: the bulls are starting over RIGHT NOW. with lavine!

Bulls are starting over? Did i miss a trade they made? Who did we get back? Draft pick?

[dice]

i understood your point completely. it is a terrible one. and here's another way it's terrible: the bulls are starting over RIGHT NOW. with lavine!

Bulls are starting over? Did i miss a trade they made? Who did we get back? Draft pick?

did you miss the firing of the GM and coach just months ago because the team hasn't been able to get out of the starting block since trading jimmy? ring a bell?

[Jcool0]

i understood your point completely. it is a terrible one. and here's another way it's terrible: the bulls are starting over RIGHT NOW. with lavine!

Bulls are starting over? Did i miss a trade they made? Who did we get back? Draft pick?

did you miss the firing of the GM and coach just months ago because the team hasn't been able to get out of the starting block since trading jimmy? ring a bell?

Billy Donovan doesn't strike me as the type of coach to want to be apart of a 5-10 year rebuild.

[dice]

Bulls are starting over? Did i miss a trade they made? Who did we get back? Draft pick?

did you miss the firing of the GM and coach just months ago because the team hasn't been able to get out of the starting block since trading jimmy? ring a bell?

Billy Donovan doesn't strike me as the type of coach to want to be apart of a 5-10 year rebuild.

nobody does. he was hired to do it faster. but make no mistake about it, he's building from the ground up

[nitetrain8603]

if your goal is to make the playoffs, sure, hang on to zach and try to achieve that not-so-lofty goal. otherwise, him playing well just raises his trade value


zach is not in the same universe as a "perfect" player

This board has proven that no one here believes in a perfect player.

huh?

It makes no sense to go ahead and trade Zach, especially with him improving again this year. You build on that, not let that go. Unless the plan is to trade for Harden and pair him up with others, then it makes no damn sense to trade Zach.

if you think you're going to have to pay him more than he's worth, then it makes perfect sense to trade him. even if you think he's all star caliber. obviously this team won't be contending while he's under his current deal

I could care less if we contend while he's under his current deal. My question is, can he help us, can he improve us, and when we are ready to contend, will he already be old? IMO, the answer is yes, yes and no. If you're looking for players who will help us contend on their current deals, then you must not root for anyone on the Bulls. Not even Patrick Williams' rookie deal covers that.

[dice]

This board has proven that no one here believes in a perfect player.

huh?

It makes no sense to go ahead and trade Zach, especially with him improving again this year. You build on that, not let that go. Unless the plan is to trade for Harden and pair him up with others, then it makes no damn sense to trade Zach.

if you think you're going to have to pay him more than he's worth, then it makes perfect sense to trade him. even if you think he's all star caliber. obviously this team won't be contending while he's under his current deal

I could care less if we contend while he's under his current deal. My question is, can he help us, can he improve us, and when we are ready to contend, will he already be old?

you can ask those same questions of almost every player on the bulls and the answers would all be yes

the most important question is whether he'll be worth the money he gets on his next contract. because if he's not, that inhibits the team's ability to get to the point of contention!

If you're looking for players who will help us contend on their current deals, then you must not root for anyone on the Bulls. Not even Patrick Williams' rookie deal covers that.

you're missing my point, which is that it seems highly likely to me that lavine will be well overpaid on his next deal. i don't have any reason to believe that's the case for anyone else on the roster. so let some other sucker give us assets for the privilege of re-signing lavine

[Kukoc-Lauri]

Imo Lavine is part of problem not solution in any way and shape. He is on top of collection of mediocree, unathlethic, low iq basketball players, without defensive skills, understanding of the game. Regardless off a coach this group celling is play in tournament. Sonner we realized our mistakes and sell while some players have value we could build team with propper personell and style of play. 2021 draft and multiple picks is our first step in right direction. Still remember when Warriors,Bucks fans were furious for trading Monta Ellis and Brandon Jennings. Lavine is in that Ricky Davis,Larry Hughes,Dion Waiters category of players who are chasing stats and glory. Dont want that kind a player as leader or franchise player.Lot of our current players would play better without Lavine with more touches. White is perfect short term replacement for Lavine.

[Stratmaster]

Zach is shooting .302 from the perimeter at 7.6 3PA.

Ouch.

He's about as good an outside shooter as Wendell Carter right now.

Give it up. At this point it is obvious the bias in your posts. You know Zach is a great 3 point shooter and you try to use a 6 game sample to argue otherwise.

And look at that. A couple days after your post he is up to 32%. And by the end of the season he will be close to his normal 38%.

You know this. We know this. We know you know this. You understand this. At least I hope you do because otherwise you are just really, really ignorant about basketball.

Just stop.

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[Stratmaster]

He's not a bad defender in the sense that opposing teams can just hunt for switches until he's guarding the ball. That's kind of always been true just because he's not small and/or slow. His problems are mostly team defense.

Lavine loafed last season. The current Lavine looks more like Lavine from two seasons ago which was the best season of Lavine to date.

Surely even the biggest lavine detractors have to give him credit? Loved the majority of his play thus far this season.

Think when he facilitates the offensive it adds another dimension. The reason he takes the big shots is because he’s the best choice. Without lavine in the current roster we are cannon fodder!!

My main issue with LaVine has always been the turnovers.

He's too loose with the ball.

His A/T ratio is abysmal, but he had 0 TOs against the Lakers, which is nice.

Lavine is playing two roles at once. Go to scorer and lead/point guard. He also plays the most minutes.

Go to any team and combine the turnover totals of their highest volume shooter and highest volume ball handler.
Expecting Zach, who is not a true PG, to average less than 4 turnovers a game is a pretty high expectation.

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Trae Young. 4.7 TO per game
LeBron. 3.7
Doncic. 4.5

Those are guys who also are responsible for being top scorers and handling the ball every possession. Who else can you think of and what are their turnover averages?

[Stratmaster]

part of the appeal of trading Lavine IS to get worse, in the short run. This 2021 top 5 looks great. White, Lauri and Williams could be really good secondary creators behind a guy like Suggs or Cunningham. Hopefully, if the Bulls decide to trade him, they get a good shot at another top 2021 pick

So you trade Lavine to get worse so you can draft a player like Lavine?

Exactly. Only the player you draft will be a wildcard who might someday be able to score like Lavine... and just as likely won't.

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