Building around Coby-Giddey-Matas

[kodo]

Caruso isn't a big factor in OKC, if Chet had been healthy he'd be 10th in total minutes played.

It would be like saying Jalen Smith is a big factor for Chicago. They're both in the same situation, Jalen Smith is 10th in minutes played. Jalen Smith has the best defensive rating on the team. Caruso is 9th on minutes played. Caruso has the 3rd best def rating on the team. But both guys are out of the 8 man rotation it's hard to give them huge credit for either team's success.

I don't think Presti feels he lost the deal because they were never going to pay Giddey in RFA, so they had to get something for him and Caruso is one of the best "somethings" you can ask for. Giddey's stock was worse than the DJ on April 8th when the traded happened, Presti wasn't going to get better than AC.

[MGB8]

Here is a semi crazy trade idea between Chicago and OKC that might make sense for both teams, given the raises OKc is going to have to give very soon:

OKC sends Caruso (18M and 4 years) and Hartenstein (28.5M and 2 years) for Ayo (7.5M), Vuc (21.5M, expiring), Jalen Smith (9M, cheapish longer term C backup for them) and, if needed for salary (though roster spot an issue), Jevon Carter (6.8M, to be waived) + cash towards a Carter buyout.

Caruso has been a bit of a disappointment for the Thunder, and while Hartenstein has been anything but a disappointment- they have to consider finances past that year (where moving off Caruso helps, Hartenstein is a P/O so less an issue - but will need a cheap C to play behind, in some cases with, Chet).

????

How has Caruso been a disappointment?

Read on Twitter

“a bit of a disappointment” - 3 pt shooting and TS down as compared to prior two years, especially as compared to last year. More injured this year than last two, despite mpg being down.

They got the D, but I think they were hoping for a high level 3 pt shooter, not an average one.

[nomorezorro]

the thunder don't have an "8 man rotation" that caruso is out of. he plays 3 mpg fewer than the #7 guy on the team's roster, and he's very clearly being load managed because he's older and has more of an injury history than some of the guys who get more minutes than him.

comparing him to jalen smith is absurd

[Jcool0]

Here is a semi crazy trade idea between Chicago and OKC that might make sense for both teams, given the raises OKc is going to have to give very soon:

OKC sends Caruso (18M and 4 years) and Hartenstein (28.5M and 2 years) for Ayo (7.5M), Vuc (21.5M, expiring), Jalen Smith (9M, cheapish longer term C backup for them) and, if needed for salary (though roster spot an issue), Jevon Carter (6.8M, to be waived) + cash towards a Carter buyout.

Caruso has been a bit of a disappointment for the Thunder, and while Hartenstein has been anything but a disappointment- they have to consider finances past that year (where moving off Caruso helps, Hartenstein is a P/O so less an issue - but will need a cheap C to play behind, in some cases with, Chet).

????

How has Caruso been a disappointment?

Read on Twitter

“a bit of a disappointment” - 3 pt shooting and TS down as compared to prior two years, especially as compared to last year. More injured this year than last two, despite mpg being down.

They got the D, but I think they were hoping for a high level 3 pt shooter, not an average one.

Last 17 games Thunder are 14-3 Caruso is shooting 50/37/83

Read on Twitter

[nomorezorro]

suggesting the thunder might respond to an all-time-great regular season by trading two key rotation players for a combo guard who wouldn't play for them and a massive downgrade at backup C...one of the more baffling trade proposals i've seen around here

[kodo]

Looking at the roster, I am coming around to the notion of moving Ayo as part of a package to try to upgrade at either the defensive-2 (3&D plus wing between Coby and Giddey/Matas) or C, at least if we resign Jones. The question is who might be available.

Naz Reid is one guy; Wolves biggest weakness is that Conley is old, and Ant’s ball-dominance reduces the need for a true PG - so Ayo might fit nicely. But will Naz decline his PO and seek big money? If so, sign and trade - Vuc+Ayo+pick (assuming late lotto or even mid-teens)?

With Bam there (and just entering his prime) could Miami be incentivized to send us Ware, maybe in a larger trade for them to shed some salary (Rozier, who has fallen out of favor), maybe Anderson, for them to get younger at other spots?

I'm with you. I'm fine moving either/both of Ayo/Ball to bring back a good defensive C.

I think neither is likely to meet with a favorable reception.

IMO, Minny will look to keep Reid, and unless anyone with capspace like BKN goes after him, they have a shot at keeping him on a MLE+ a little type deal.

As for MIA, I think they are thrilled with Ware and wouldn't trade him for any reason.

Maybe DAL would part with Gafford?

I think Miami is about as likely to trade Ware as we are to trade Buzelis. Both guys would need a star level package way outside what other teams would pay for guys with such low production.

Even Nic Claxton isn't available without a good 1st round pick. If we're not willing to give up a pick(s), you soon get to the point where Zach Collins is better than the alternatives.

[jordanwilliams6]

the thunder don't have an "8 man rotation" that caruso is out of. he plays 3 mpg fewer than the #7 guy on the team's roster, and he's very clearly being load managed because he's older and has more of an injury history than some of the guys who get more minutes than him.

comparing him to jalen smith is absurd

It’s clear as anything that Caruso has been carefully managed to be healthy for the playoffs. They don’t need him now.

He can genuinely be the difference is crucial playoff games and might be the difference between a championship or falling short. AC was brought in for a very specific role & reason.

[MGB8]

suggesting the thunder might respond to an all-time-great regular season by trading two key rotation players for a combo guard who wouldn't play for them and a massive downgrade at backup C...one of the more baffling trade proposals i've seen around here

The Wolves had one of their best seasons in a while, the traded KAT. The Thunder themselves traded James Harden. Dallas just went to the finals - then traded Luka.

I hate it when people post aspersions, belittling others, based on completely shallow BS. Financials matter - which is what I clearly cited.

You can think such trade is unlikely, and I noted “crazy trade idea” - but throwing out there that financials might lead the Thunder to want to rebalance because their finances because their young guys are due for big raises.

[kodo]

the thunder don't have an "8 man rotation" that caruso is out of. he plays 3 mpg fewer than the #7 guy on the team's roster, and he's very clearly being load managed because he's older and has more of an injury history than some of the guys who get more minutes than him.

comparing him to jalen smith is absurd

Thinking 9th/10th men in a rotation are big impact players for a team is also absurd. What's next, talking about how Randy Brown and Jason Caffey (9th/10th) on the 98 Bulls were crucial to their success?

He assumedly will get a bigger role once the playoffs start, but in the regular season OKC didn't need him at all.

[nomorezorro]

suggesting the thunder might respond to an all-time-great regular season by trading two key rotation players for a combo guard who wouldn't play for them and a massive downgrade at backup C...one of the more baffling trade proposals i've seen around here

The Wolves had one of their best seasons in a while, the traded KAT. The Thunder themselves traded James Harden. Dallas just went to the finals - then traded Luka.

I hate it when people post aspersions, belittling others, based on completely shallow BS. Financials matter - which is what I clearly cited.

You can think such trade is unlikely, and I noted “crazy trade idea” - but throwing out there that financials might lead the Thunder to want to rebalance because their finances because their young guys are due for big raises.

when the wolves traded KAT, they had three players on max contracts, were significantly over the second apron and were positioned to stay there long enough to incur the steep repeater penalties.

the thunder have one max player (and he's making less than any of minny's max guys), they're not even over the tax line, they have their top 14 players already under contract for next season with salary obligations that are $15 million below the projected tax line, they won't have to give out new contracts to anyone until the 2026-27 offseason, and their salaries are set up so guys like hartenstein and caruso can come off the books before a new deal is due to sga.

they acquired hartenstein and caruso last summer precisely because their contracts fit perfectly with their existing salary obligations. they will not have to let players go for financial reasons for the next couple of seasons, minimum.

[Jcool0]

Read on Twitter

[MGB8]

suggesting the thunder might respond to an all-time-great regular season by trading two key rotation players for a combo guard who wouldn't play for them and a massive downgrade at backup C...one of the more baffling trade proposals i've seen around here

The Wolves had one of their best seasons in a while, the traded KAT. The Thunder themselves traded James Harden. Dallas just went to the finals - then traded Luka.

I hate it when people post aspersions, belittling others, based on completely shallow BS. Financials matter - which is what I clearly cited.

You can think such trade is unlikely, and I noted “crazy trade idea” - but throwing out there that financials might lead the Thunder to want to rebalance because their finances because their young guys are due for big raises.

when the wolves traded KAT, they had three players on max contracts, were significantly over the second apron and were positioned to stay there long enough to incur the steep repeater penalties.

the thunder have one max player (and he's making less than any of minny's max guys), they're not even over the tax line, they have their top 14 players already under contract for next season with salary obligations that are $15 million below the projected tax line, they won't have to give out new contracts to anyone until the 2026-27 offseason, and their salaries are set up so guys like hartenstein and caruso can come off the books before a new deal is due to sga.

they acquired hartenstein and caruso last summer precisely because their contracts fit perfectly with their existing salary obligations. they will not have to let players go for financial reasons for the next couple of seasons, minimum.

NOT CARUSO. They are at 177M next year without draft pick salary, dropping one option and one non-guaranteed (gets them to 183 if don’t). That is LT adjacent, but likely fine.

The following year, however, is Chet and Jalen Williams first extension year, and absent dropping Dort’s 17.7 or Hartenstein’s 28.4 (much less some smaller deals), if Chet is at 38 and no draft pick from this summer - they are at 188M for 11 players…. If Jalen Williams gets 30 M, too, then they are at 218 M for 12 players. Way in even that year’s luxury tax land.

Carlson’s 19.5 is gong to cost them 40 M and likely force them to drop Dort. And they may have to move on from Hartenstein regardless.

[nomorezorro]

okc has been a willing taxpayer and even had the highest salary obligations in the league one season in the late 2010s. there's no reason to think they'd salary dump players now to avoid one year of tax payments in 2026-27. (and this is even before you get into the fact that, if they did want to clear salary, they could find a better return than a package of ayo/vuevic/smith.)

it's ok to just accept that the rationale for your (admittedly crazy!) idea does not really hold up to scrutiny. this is a very low stakes situation

[GuardianEnzo]

You're going to see Caruso's value to OKC in the playoffs. He's been his usual self in the regular season - mediocre shooter, maybe the best defender in the league, injured a lot. They've coasted and didn't need him. He was brought in to play big minutes in the postseason and he wil.

[MGB8]

okc has been a willing taxpayer and even had the highest salary obligations in the league one season in the late 2010s. there's no reason to think they'd salary dump players now to avoid one year of tax payments in 2026-27. (and this is even before you get into the fact that, if they did want to clear salary, they could find a better return than a package of ayo/vuevic/smith.)

it's ok to just accept that the rationale for your (admittedly crazy!) idea does not really hold up to scrutiny. this is a very low stakes situation

Stop being intentionally obnoxious. You are just making both a fool and an @ss out of yourself. Hint, you aren’t that smart.

The luxury tax penalties were not nearly as punitive back then. Nor would it be only 1 year - unless you think they are they dumping the Chet - SGA - Jalen core? SGA’s next deal starts 27-28. Caruso is on the books until 28-29.

The issue of them potentially getting a better package back for Caruso and Hartenstein is legit - although I am not sure that would actually be out there - and you haven’t even suggested a better offer that would be realistic.

The bigger issue would be do they wait a year and then pay assets to move Caruso, likely get nothing back for (don’t exercise the option), as opposed to any value they would get back in Jalen Smith plus presumably resigning Ayo for reasonably cheap.

Chances are they go w/ continuity. But reasonable scrutiny would not dismiss getting ahead of the financial issues as a reasonable path; only a sh!poster would.

[Jcool0]

okc has been a willing taxpayer and even had the highest salary obligations in the league one season in the late 2010s. there's no reason to think they'd salary dump players now to avoid one year of tax payments in 2026-27. (and this is even before you get into the fact that, if they did want to clear salary, they could find a better return than a package of ayo/vuevic/smith.)

it's ok to just accept that the rationale for your (admittedly crazy!) idea does not really hold up to scrutiny. this is a very low stakes situation

Stop being intentionally obnoxious. You are just making both a fool and an @ss out of yourself. Hint, you aren’t that smart.

The luxury tax penalties were not nearly as punitive back then. Nor would it be only 1 year - unless you think they are they dumping the Chet - SGA - Jalen core? SGA’s next deal starts 27-28. Caruso is on the books until 28-29.

The issue of them potentially getting a better package back for Caruso and Hartenstein is legit - although I am not sure that would actually be out there - and you haven’t even suggested a better offer that would be realistic.

The bigger issue would be do they wait a year and then pay assets to move Caruso, likely get nothing back for (don’t exercise the option), as opposed to any value they would get back in Jalen Smith plus presumably resigning Ayo for reasonably cheap.

Chances are they go w/ continuity. But reasonable scrutiny would not dismiss getting ahead of the financial issues as a reasonable path; only a sh!poster would.

[MGB8]

okc has been a willing taxpayer and even had the highest salary obligations in the league one season in the late 2010s. there's no reason to think they'd salary dump players now to avoid one year of tax payments in 2026-27. (and this is even before you get into the fact that, if they did want to clear salary, they could find a better return than a package of ayo/vuevic/smith.)

it's ok to just accept that the rationale for your (admittedly crazy!) idea does not really hold up to scrutiny. this is a very low stakes situation

Stop being intentionally obnoxious. You are just making both a fool and an @ss out of yourself. Hint, you aren’t that smart.

The luxury tax penalties were not nearly as punitive back then. Nor would it be only 1 year - unless you think they are they dumping the Chet - SGA - Jalen core? SGA’s next deal starts 27-28. Caruso is on the books until 28-29.

The issue of them potentially getting a better package back for Caruso and Hartenstein is legit - although I am not sure that would actually be out there - and you haven’t even suggested a better offer that would be realistic.

The bigger issue would be do they wait a year and then pay assets to move Caruso, likely get nothing back for (don’t exercise the option), as opposed to any value they would get back in Jalen Smith plus presumably resigning Ayo for reasonably cheap.

Chances are they go w/ continuity. But reasonable scrutiny would not dismiss getting ahead of the financial issues as a reasonable path; only a sh!poster would.

In your own, obnoxious and baselessly conceited words, “do better.”

[Jcool0]

Stop being intentionally obnoxious. You are just making both a fool and an @ss out of yourself. Hint, you aren’t that smart.

The luxury tax penalties were not nearly as punitive back then. Nor would it be only 1 year - unless you think they are they dumping the Chet - SGA - Jalen core? SGA’s next deal starts 27-28. Caruso is on the books until 28-29.

The issue of them potentially getting a better package back for Caruso and Hartenstein is legit - although I am not sure that would actually be out there - and you haven’t even suggested a better offer that would be realistic.

The bigger issue would be do they wait a year and then pay assets to move Caruso, likely get nothing back for (don’t exercise the option), as opposed to any value they would get back in Jalen Smith plus presumably resigning Ayo for reasonably cheap.

Chances are they go w/ continuity. But reasonable scrutiny would not dismiss getting ahead of the financial issues as a reasonable path; only a sh!poster would.

In your own, obnoxious and baselessly conceited words, “do better.”

Stop being intentionally obnoxious.

[ChettheJet]

Up until recently my thought for next year was to add a PF the likes of John Collins to put Patrick at the SF and see if he can flourish at that position. For the foreseeable future Williams seems most suited to come off the bench to be the defensive anchor of that group and he gets more shots than as a starter.

But I've changed my thinking. Looking at Williams coming off the bench and Matas with a summer of weights being a stronger PF I'm leaning towards looking for a SF to start. There are certainly more SF's to be found as wings are the preferred draft pick of most teams. The summer should see Vucevic traded along with an expiring Dosunmu and Carter and maybe there's some way those deals bring back a SF.

I think a prime target should be RJ Barrett. TOR has Ingram, Quickly and Bares coming up with long large contracts, Poeltl with a couple of more years at $19M. Moving Barrett would get them on a path to flexibility. If they intend to keep Dick and play him they can move Barrett for somebody lower priced or a shorter contract for when the next guy steps up to get paid.

Barrett can score the basketball, he doesn't seem afraid to pass the ball withing the offense and as we've seen of later that works for this Bulls rotation. He's not maligned on defense, I like that he's left handed because it throws some defenders off and the Bulls don't have a lefty.

[NecessaryEvil]

RJ Barrett?? No thanks