Kuminga sign and trade Bulls interest

[DropStep]

People on this board talk about the Bulls like they are loaded. They are a perpetual 38 win team. Kuminga is literally better than everyone on this list except Giddey. Isn't the goal to acquire good players? Terry, Patrick and Phillips have had years of development. Time to upgrade the roster.

The point right now is to get better players on value contracts who fit with what we are trying to build. The assets we would have to give in a trade, plus the dollars and cap space to sign Kuminga, appear to be a bad value for the (likely limited) upgrades he would bring. The only time where I would knowingly execute a greatly non-value transaction of this size is for the final piece(s) to a contender. Kuminga is not that, and neither are we. Is he a better player in a vacuum than the guy he would be replacing? Likely so, but that is a different question than does he make sense asset-wise, time-wise, and fit-wise. If the price is too high then it is too high, unless waiting makes it come down, which is what we are doing. If we spend lots of assets on small to medium upgrades, we won't have enough assets to make other upgrades later.

[burlydee]

People on this board talk about the Bulls like they are loaded. They are a perpetual 38 win team. Kuminga is literally better than everyone on this list except Giddey. Isn't the goal to acquire good players? Terry, Patrick and Phillips have had years of development. Time to upgrade the roster.

The point at this time is to get better players on value contracts who fit with what we are trying to build. The assets we would have to give/pay to sign Kuminga appear to be a bad value for the upgrades he would bring. The only time where I would execute a greatly non-value transaction is for the final piece to a contender. Kuminga is not that, and neither are we. Is he a better player in a vaccum than the guy he would be replacing? Likely so, but that is a different question than does he make sense asset-wise, timewise, and fit-wise. Given that it appears we would have to trade for him and then pay him a non-value contract, the answers are likely "yes to the first question, but then also no to the rest" for me, given the information out there. If the price is too high then it is too high, unless waiting makes it come down, which is what we are doing.

Its not clear to me what assets we'd have to give up to get Kuminga. I wouldn't give up Matas, Giddey, Coby, Essengue, or any of our picks. I'd want to hang onto Huerter and Okoro. Other than that, what are we taking about? I consider Ayo to be better than anything rumored to be offered by Sacramento. Same with Collins or Vuc. No point in holding into Smith. Terry? Philips? The best asset we'd potentially give up is the Portland pick which I'm convinced turns into two seconds rounders. Part of the reason I like Kuminga is the low asset cost.

Why would we have to pay him a "non-value" contract? Admittedly this is the tricky part bc who knows what Washington or Sac are offering, but as a RFA with limited interest i don't think his deal goes over $25-27 million a year. If you sign him for 3 years i think its worth the gamble. I don't think the money will go to a better place.

[NecessaryEvil]

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[Dominator83]

Kuminga (re-signed at 4 years 72 mio) for Williams and a 1st rd pick would work for me

I give it approximately 0% odds that Kuminga signs for as little as 4/72.

I wouldn't give up a first round pick to get Kuminga. I might change my mind if it's the Portland pick, but I'd probably still say no.

If it was to get Kuminga AND off-load Patrick? I probably would, and i'm not even a big Kuminga fan. But much rather see him than Patrick

[One_and_Done]

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That would be an overpay, so it fits for the Kings. Why would you want this guy? He's not good. You talk about offloading P.Will for him, but he'll just be your next P.Will.

[dougthonus]

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Best part of the actual article is this:

They’ve drawn inbound calls in recent days, most notably from the Sacramento Kings, who floated an offer of Devin Carter, Dario Šarić and two second-round picks, league sources said. The Warriors have so far balked at what they felt was a buy-low attempt, league sources said.

"Buy low attempt"?

You literally do not want the player and will not engage in talks to extend him yourself. No mention in this hypothetical Kings deal if Kuminga / Kings have actually talked or reached a contract point, but that seems like an obvious critical factor missing from this reporting which puts the whole credibility into question.

Prior to figuring out compensation, you'd need to figure out whether the player would actually come to you.

[Jvaughn]

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Best part of the actual article is this:

They’ve drawn inbound calls in recent days, most notably from the Sacramento Kings, who floated an offer of Devin Carter, Dario Šarić and two second-round picks, league sources said. The Warriors have so far balked at what they felt was a buy-low attempt, league sources said.

"Buy low attempt"?

You literally do not want the player and will not engage in talks to extend him yourself. No mention in this hypothetical Kings deal if Kuminga / Kings have actually talked or reached a contract point, but that seems like an obvious critical factor missing from this reporting which puts the whole credibility into question.

Prior to figuring out compensation, you'd need to figure out whether the player would actually come to you.

Yeah, I'm not understanding the Warriors approach here. I can't see anyone offering more than the Kings did. And he's not a player they want to move forward with longterm, so I see this playing out 1 of 2 ways. Someone is going to have to offer a massive offer sheet that Warriors won't dare match, or Kuminga is going to be playing out that QO this year.

[dougthonus]

Yeah, I'm not understanding the Warriors approach here. I can't see anyone offering more than the Kings did. And he's not a player they want to move forward with longterm, so I see this playing out 1 of 2 ways. Someone is going to have to offer a massive offer sheet that Warriors won't dare match, or Kuminga is going to be playing out that QO this year.

If I had to guess, I'd say the Warriors will take this deal if the Kings and Kuminga agree on terms and the offer is legit.

Gives them a depth piece, some 2nds, and a prospect for a guy they don't want.

[Jvaughn]

Yeah, I'm not understanding the Warriors approach here. I can't see anyone offering more than the Kings did. And he's not a player they want to move forward with longterm, so I see this playing out 1 of 2 ways. Someone is going to have to offer a massive offer sheet that Warriors won't dare match, or Kuminga is going to be playing out that QO this year.

If I had to guess, I'd say the Warriors will take this deal if the Kings and Kuminga agree on terms and the offer is legit.

Gives them a depth piece, some 2nds, and a prospect for a guy they don't want.

Think they're just strong arming, right now? Hoping to get someone to make a larger offer?

[WookieOnRitalin]

So we have to sacrifice an eastern conference player of the month level talent because our idiotic FO made a blunder with trash Pat?

Hell no. Coby’s not going anywhere.

Yes. That's sadly how bad it is. It's not as if we get no return. We just may be sending out more talent than receiving. That's okay. You have to take losses at times to move the needle forward.

[kodo]

Yeah, I'm not understanding the Warriors approach here. I can't see anyone offering more than the Kings did. And he's not a player they want to move forward with longterm, so I see this playing out 1 of 2 ways. Someone is going to have to offer a massive offer sheet that Warriors won't dare match, or Kuminga is going to be playing out that QO this year.

If I had to guess, I'd say the Warriors will take this deal if the Kings and Kuminga agree on terms and the offer is legit.

Gives them a depth piece, some 2nds, and a prospect for a guy they don't want.

Think they're just strong arming, right now? Hoping to get someone to make a larger offer?

Some reports are saying GS might just give in to Kuminga's requirement of 30M+ and trade him later, rather than lose an asset for nothing.
Even if they don't want him long term and at that price.

[burlydee]

People on this board talk about the Bulls like they are loaded. They are a perpetual 38 win team. Kuminga is literally better than everyone on this list except Giddey. Isn't the goal to acquire good players? Terry, Patrick and Phillips have had years of development. Time to upgrade the roster.

The point right now is to get better players on value contracts who fit with what we are trying to build. The assets we would have to give in a trade, plus the dollars and cap space to sign Kuminga, appear to be a bad value for the (likely limited) upgrades he would bring. The only time where I would knowingly execute a greatly non-value transaction of this size is for the final piece(s) to a contender. Kuminga is not that, and neither are we. Is he a better player in a vacuum than the guy he would be replacing? Likely so, but that is a different question than does he make sense asset-wise, time-wise, and fit-wise. If the price is too high then it is too high, unless waiting makes it come down, which is what we are doing. If we spend lots of assets on small to medium upgrades, we won't have enough assets to make other upgrades later.

The only time you would acquire a talented free agent is if he's rhe final piece on the roster?

Okay.

I think the Bulls are still in the talent acquisition stage of team building. I think having the most talent, provided it isn't on bad contracts, is what's important. Imo, the Bulls have 2-3 players with high potential (Noa, Matas, Giddey), a quality starter level guys (Coby), and aging vet (Vuc) and a lot of role players. In this scenario i think reaching for talent in the draft and in free agency makes the most sense. I don't think having Kuminga realistically stunts anyone's development.

The only guys even rumored to be offered to him are Vuc and Ayo who I don't really consider high priority to keep. Ppl keep exaggerating the price - Sacramento is offering salary filler and a rookie who never saw the floor. Given what GS needs, reliable vets, I think we can trump that offer.

[Am2626]

So we have to sacrifice an eastern conference player of the month level talent because our idiotic FO made a blunder with trash Pat?

Hell no. Coby’s not going anywhere.

Yes. That's sadly how bad it is. It's not as if we get no return. We just may be sending out more talent than receiving. That's okay. You have to take losses at times to move the needle forward.

You do realize that Cody White is an UFA next year and the Bulls may not be able to resign him. If that happens they will lose him for nothing. He’s a fringe All Star player and currently better than Kuminga. With that said, Kuminga has the talent and potential to be a superstar. Not saying that will happen but his ceiling is higher than Coby White. With a team far away from contending I would rather take chances on guys like Kuminga rather than stay in mediocrity because some one like Coby White is your best player. He will never be a superstar. If it doesn’t work out and the Bulls bottom out they will finally have the chance to fully rebuild which is what they really need to do.

[ShouldaPaidBG]

I would trade Coby and Vuc for him if he would accept the Jabari Smith deal over 4 years and we get Giddey for 30 or less.

Kuminga can demand all he wants but hes shown absolutely nothing that deserves more than the MLE. I would do it more as a way to get off Vuc than anything else, and I'd rather pay Kuminga than Coby on a long term deal.

We then keep Ayo who can actually play defense

Giddey/Jones
Ayo/Huerter
Kuminga/Okoro/Pat
Matas/Pat/Noa
Smith/Collins

Terry Phillips fill in as needed. Our worst defender is then Giddey, who is on the perimeter and I would argue average on D.

Everyone 2-4 is basically interchangeable, our defense being good for all 48 minutes with some young talent given runway to develop.

[jacoby1us]

Honestly, when Bulls drafted Noa, this Kuminga thread should've been closed.

It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever adding him to a Matas/Noa/Phillips/Patrick/Terry/Ayo front-court rotation. Patrick's untradeable thus locked into the bench rotation, Terry should be cut but will probably be resigned for 5Y as the permanent 13th man, Noa will have to pray to the gods for a minute, and Ayo is getting first dibs on SF/PF minutes as soon he's back on the floor... regardless how small he is.

This on top of Giddey probably playing a bulk of his minutes at "SF"... and Jalen Smith perhaps not even having a hope of playing.

Edit: I forgot about Okoro. Lol.

Philips, Patrick, Terry, suck. Ayo is a guard. Noa hasn't played a game. Matas made 2nd team all rookie. Giddey is a point guard. Smith sucks too.

People on this board talk about the Bulls like they are loaded. They are a perpetual 38 win team. Kuminga is literally better than everyone on this list except Giddey. Isn't the goal to acquire good players? Terry, Patrick and Phillips have had years of development. Time to upgrade the roster.

Most Bulls fans on this board live in a constant state of delusion and believe we're one piece away from a championship when the reality is the Bulls are no longer even considered a treadmill team.

Kings of Play-In positioning.

[WookieOnRitalin]

So we have to sacrifice an eastern conference player of the month level talent because our idiotic FO made a blunder with trash Pat?

Hell no. Coby’s not going anywhere.

Yes. That's sadly how bad it is. It's not as if we get no return. We just may be sending out more talent than receiving. That's okay. You have to take losses at times to move the needle forward.

You do realize that Cody White is an UFA next year and the Bulls may not be able to resign him. If that happens they will lose him for nothing. He’s a fringe All Star player and currently better than Kuminga. With that said, Kuminga has the talent and potential to be a superstar. Not saying that will happen but his ceiling is higher than Coby White. With a team far away from contending I would rather take chances on guys like Kuminga rather than stay in mediocrity because some one like Coby White is your best player. He will never be a superstar. If it doesn’t work out and the Bulls bottom out they will finally have the chance to fully rebuild which is what they really need to do.

I think people are living in a dream land of not realizing how bad PW's contract really is. I'd trade Coby + PWill in a heart beat just to be rid of it. Coby is clearly not in the long term plans. Generally speaking, fans vastly overrate the value of their players and there is really no reason to believe that teams are going to give you something that will move the needle. All Stars or All NBA players typically can command teams to give up valuable roster players in order to acquire such a player and such teams are usually bubble teams that are on the cusp of competing for a title.

So in order...

1: Bulls have no All Stars or All NBA players
2: Bulls assets will not allow them to acquire one
3: Bulls are not a bubble team competing for a title anytime soon

We are in a much different phase. We need to be looking at where we are going and whether the current players are going to be a good fit for our future players (Matas, Noa).

I am not saying that Kuminga is that player either. What I do know is that Coby is a sweetener to offload PWill. Neither are not likely to have a future here. So I would gladly package Coby with PWill to get out from under PWill's horrible contract.

[nomorezorro]

what do you think patrick williams's contract is going to prevent us from doing in the next few years?

we're on track to have $70+ million in cap space next year. it sucks to have a bad asset on the books, but we have plenty of flexibility and no real urgent need to get him off our roster.

(also a kuminga contract could very easily be an even bigger albatross than pat's deal!)

[Red Larrivee]

what do you think patrick williams's contract is going to prevent us from doing in the next few years?

we're on track to have $70+ million in cap space next year. it sucks to have a bad asset on the books, but we have plenty of flexibility and no real urgent need to get him off our roster.

(also a kuminga contract could very easily be an even bigger albatross than pat's deal!)

I would guess that most teams have at least $18M (some a lot more) in unwanted salary on their books, so I don't think the Pat deal is some unique circumstance. If the worst deal we have going forward is a contract that's on track to be an MLE deal, then it could be a lot worse.

Even though Pat is consistently uninspiring, I do think there's a chance he could at least play himself back to just being frustratingly average again. I think he's at least movable if he does that.

[dougthonus]

Some reports are saying GS might just give in to Kuminga's requirement of 30M+ and trade him later, rather than lose an asset for nothing.
Even if they don't want him long term and at that price.

Hey hope springs eternal. You got to be pretty confident you can flip that asset later.

[HomoSapien]

Honestly, when Bulls drafted Noa, this Kuminga thread should've been closed.

It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever adding him to a Matas/Noa/Phillips/Patrick/Terry/Ayo front-court rotation. Patrick's untradeable thus locked into the bench rotation, Terry should be cut but will probably be resigned for 5Y as the permanent 13th man, Noa will have to pray to the gods for a minute, and Ayo is getting first dibs on SF/PF minutes as soon he's back on the floor... regardless how small he is.

This on top of Giddey probably playing a bulk of his minutes at "SF"... and Jalen Smith perhaps not even having a hope of playing.

Edit: I forgot about Okoro. Lol.

Philips, Patrick, Terry, suck. Ayo is a guard. Noa hasn't played a game. Matas made 2nd team all rookie. Giddey is a point guard. Smith sucks too.

People on this board talk about the Bulls like they are loaded. They are a perpetual 38 win team. Kuminga is literally better than everyone on this list except Giddey. Isn't the goal to acquire good players? Terry, Patrick and Phillips have had years of development. Time to upgrade the roster.

I actually like Kuminga and have wanted him at times, but I'm not sure if it makes sense anymore. Kuminga hasn't developed because he's burried on the bench in GS. By bringing him here, we'd be doing the same thing to Essengue. Either we believe super strongly in him or we don't. I feel like creating these positional roster jams never works. It got clunky when we had Brand/Chandler, Fizer, and Marshall and again when we had Gasol, Gibson, and Mirotic. I also think think that while we probably could find enough minutes for Kuminga, Buzelis, and Essengue to all play I just don't know if they work together. There's not a lot of shooting in that group.