OT: Highland Park 4th of July Parade Mass Shooting

[League Circles]

The insurance analogy doesn't work at all. With insurance, you agree to experience tolerable loss (premiums) to prevent intolerable loss. On the other hand, your average gun owner tries to prevent intolerable loss with a tool that, statistically speaking, increases the likelihood that they'll experience intolerable loss.

There are no tolerable and intolerable losses, only more and less tolerable. The likely outcome of insurance is that you pay insurance companies more than you ever would have if self-insured. The statistics are not random. No reason to deprive a competent person of a human right IMO.

And sure, a very responsible gun owner may be able to prevent their weapon from being stolen, lost, or used to kill themselves or a family member, but no aspect of public safety policy is crafted strictly for responsible people. If it were, the speed limit would be 20 mph higher and I'd be able to walk onto a plane without security checks. Irresponsible gun owners, minority though they may be, are causing a great deal of societal harm without much measurable societal benefit to balance it out.

I'd have to see evidence that gun irresponsibility actually causes all that much societal harm. Maybe it does, but I think it's mostly mayhem and illegal trafficking.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

1) If I lose my house in an earthquake, I can’t afford to replace it. That’s an intolerable loss that I insure against. But I’m not sure how your parsing of terms here clarifies your point about guns.

2) Have you read anything about gun violence and its destabilizing effects? Those studies are a Google away.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

The semantics around gang violence vs suicide vs mass shooting is ridiculous. America leads the world in all gun death categories!!

Every single type of gun related death, USA #1.

Can you be the world leader in a worse category?

I do appreciate the gun rights responses here. I still have not seen a single pro gun response here that acknowledges that gun violence is a problem and offers a solution or change of any kind. Doing nothing and expecting change is nuts.

We have a lot of people on this forum. Does anyone know a single person that has saved their life or protected their family by firing a gun at an intruder? Get a security camera and a dog, just as much of a deterrent to stop random acts of violence entering you home.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is garbage. I am pro gun and I have agreed we need to make some changes and I am in agreement with suggestions like stricter background checks and licensing and registration. I’m also willing to look into limiting type of firearms that may be more powerful or allow too many rounds before a reload.

I have security cameras and dogs. Security cameras aren’t going to defend me they will only alert me. And my digs, well pretty much the same thing. You give them a treat and theyll be you best friend. I have not needed to use a firearm for self defense yet and i hope i never have to. Its a really bad argument saying I dont need it if i never use it. Thats just plain dumb in this situation. Dumb. Now if you said i dont need an ar-15 style rifle to protect myself then ok we can have a discussion.

[dice]

That is an interesting analogy.

I love the part about them causing great harm without much measurable societal benefit. Very true.

However, where I see the analogy to gun laws is more like this:
In an attempt to combat illegal street racing, those that drive without a license, and those that drive without insurance, we are going to reduce all speed limits by 20%, require annual driving retests to renew a license, and add an additional 20% to all insurance premiums for anyone who owns a vehicle capable of speeds greater than 80 mph an hour. No one needs a vehicle that can go faster than that anyway.

Lowering the speed limit for everyone won't stop people from illegal street racing. They are already doing something illegal, why would they care? Is it all of a sudden more illegal?

Requiring annual driving tests to renew a license will not stop people who drive without a license from driving without a license. Why would they care about an annual retest to renew their license if they don't drive with one anyway?

Add an additional 20% insurance premium for everyone that has a vehicle capable of +80mph is irrelevant to those who don't pay insurance in the first place.

The only people this burdens and impacts are the people that followed the laws already.

Edit: Actually, a better analogy would if this only applied to motorcycles. Since most people don't ride motorcycles, they would not care. But the people the do ride, and follow the laws, would be furious.

Are people afraid to go to 4th of July parades because of street racing? Send their kids to school?

Seems you missed the analogy.

But OK....

Almost all public school zones are gun free zone. That is well known by all gun owners. How can there be school shootings at schools when it is clearly illegal to bring a gun into a school? If bad guys would just follow the law, there would be no need to be concerned about school shootings.

Highland Park has an assault weapons ban/'high cap" mag ban on the books already. How can there be a shooting at a parade with an assault style weapon and high cap mag when it is clearly illegal have such a weapon in Highland Park? If that jackwad would have just followed the law, we would not be having this coversation.

Illinois/Chicago/Cook County has all types of laws. Must need a FOID Card to purchase a weapon and ammo. Must be 21 to own a handgun. Must have a CCW permit to conceal a handgun. Magazines over 15 rounds are illegal (unless you have a FOID/CCW, which is a really funny law because if you don't have a FOID or CCW, it would be illegal for you to have a gun anyway. Another one of those "we will make it extra illegal" feel good laws). How can all these "teens" in the hood go around shooting each other when it is way super duper illegal for them to have handguns and pistol ammo?

Don't quote me on it, but I'm pretty sure there are laws against murder as well. But if we add some MORE laws, I'm sure that will finally stop people that don't follow laws anyway, from not following the law.
WAIT, I GOT IT!
We should add a law that makes it ILLEGAL to not follow the law! Profit!

you're right. we should just get rid of all laws. because people who want to break them are going to anyway. genius

the shooter in uvalde waited until he was legally able to purchase his weapons. had he been required to wait until he was 21 the massacre may well never have happened. every reasonable measure helps

can we just stop dancing and just outlaw assault weapons? this truly isn't complicated

and by the way, until recent decades the 2nd amendment was never interpreted as broadly. activist judges totally butchered the original intent to service the NRA, and now we are seeing the result of that. obviously. for if that were not the case, the words 'well regulated militia' would not be part of the national dialogue. the founders never would have left it to chance that their non-existent prescription for unlimited personal gun rights be questioned

[dice]

The semantics around gang violence vs suicide vs mass shooting is ridiculous. America leads the world in all gun death categories!!

Every single type of gun related death, USA #1.

Can you be the world leader in a worse category?

I do appreciate the gun rights responses here. I still have not seen a single pro gun response here that acknowledges that gun violence is a problem and offers a solution or change of any kind. Doing nothing and expecting change is nuts.

We have a lot of people on this forum. Does anyone know a single person that has saved their life or protected their family by firing a gun at an intruder? Get a security camera and a dog, just as much of a deterrent to stop random acts of violence entering you home.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is garbage. I am pro gun and I have agreed we need to make some changes and I am in agreement with suggestions like stricter background checks and licensing and registration. I’m also willing to look into limiting type of firearms that may be more powerful or allow too many rounds before a reload.

I have security cameras and dogs. Security cameras aren’t going to defend me they will only alert me. And my digs, well pretty much the same thing. You give them a treat and theyll be you best friend. I have not needed to use a firearm for self defense yet and i hope i never have to. Its a really bad argument saying I dont need it if i never use it. Thats just plain dumb in this situation. Dumb. Now if you said i dont need an ar-15 style rifle to protect myself then ok we can have a discussion.

if you have a gun in your home, your suicide rate increases way more than your protection against invaders does. because as already noted, it is much more rare that a home intruder is killed than someone within the home is (despite countless home invasions/burglaries). which is not to say that firearms should be prohibited for home defense, but we all need to understand the implications

the unfortunate reality is that the gun that the gun owner loves so much is all too often his undoing in what might otherwise be a passing mental health crisis

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

The semantics around gang violence vs suicide vs mass shooting is ridiculous. America leads the world in all gun death categories!!

Every single type of gun related death, USA #1.

Can you be the world leader in a worse category?

I do appreciate the gun rights responses here. I still have not seen a single pro gun response here that acknowledges that gun violence is a problem and offers a solution or change of any kind. Doing nothing and expecting change is nuts.

We have a lot of people on this forum. Does anyone know a single person that has saved their life or protected their family by firing a gun at an intruder? Get a security camera and a dog, just as much of a deterrent to stop random acts of violence entering you home.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is garbage. I am pro gun and I have agreed we need to make some changes and I am in agreement with suggestions like stricter background checks and licensing and registration. I’m also willing to look into limiting type of firearms that may be more powerful or allow too many rounds before a reload.

I have security cameras and dogs. Security cameras aren’t going to defend me they will only alert me. And my digs, well pretty much the same thing. You give them a treat and theyll be you best friend. I have not needed to use a firearm for self defense yet and i hope i never have to. Its a really bad argument saying I dont need it if i never use it. Thats just plain dumb in this situation. Dumb. Now if you said i dont need an ar-15 style rifle to protect myself then ok we can have a discussion.

if you have a gun in your home, your suicide rate increases way more than your protection against invaders does. because as already noted, it is much more rare that a home intruder is killed than someone within the home is. which is not to say that firearms should be prohibited for home defense, but we all need to understand the implications

the unfortunate reality is that the gun that the gun owner loves so much is all too often his undoing in what might otherwise be a passing mental health crisis

You see this is the kind of nonsense argument that has and is getting us nowhere here.

[dice]

This is garbage. I am pro gun and I have agreed we need to make some changes and I am in agreement with suggestions like stricter background checks and licensing and registration. I’m also willing to look into limiting type of firearms that may be more powerful or allow too many rounds before a reload.

I have security cameras and dogs. Security cameras aren’t going to defend me they will only alert me. And my digs, well pretty much the same thing. You give them a treat and theyll be you best friend. I have not needed to use a firearm for self defense yet and i hope i never have to. Its a really bad argument saying I dont need it if i never use it. Thats just plain dumb in this situation. Dumb. Now if you said i dont need an ar-15 style rifle to protect myself then ok we can have a discussion.

if you have a gun in your home, your suicide rate increases way more than your protection against invaders does. because as already noted, it is much more rare that a home intruder is killed than someone within the home is. which is not to say that firearms should be prohibited for home defense, but we all need to understand the implications

the unfortunate reality is that the gun that the gun owner loves so much is all too often his undoing in what might otherwise be a passing mental health crisis

You see this is the kind of nonsense argument that has and is getting us nowhere here.

well reasoned responses like yours are what gets us nowhere. what part of my reality based argument are you allergic to, mr. "pro gun" (really weird term)?

handgun ownership VASTLY increases suicide risk. that is a stone cold fact. countless studies

[NZB2323]

There are easy solutions, the NRA will never allow them and fox news will rile up a nervous base to have people believe the issues are actually video games-mental health-weed-school counselors-people who look different-women......https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/07/right-wing-media-highland-park-shooting

Easy solutions.
1. Gun registration
2. Strict red flag laws
3. Increased background checks

Treat gun ownership like car ownership, like having a license to drive, like getting life insurance.

You want to own a gun, sure but you have to prove a level of responsibility to do so.

It's not a constitutional issue. The Constitution doesn't explicit limit gun ownership in any way. But we have already drawn a societal line that says the average person can't own a missile launcher. Persons in Mental Health Crisis shouldn't have guns. Etc. Society has the ability to create parameters around the law without taking away everyone's guns.

I agree. The first text in the 2nd amendment, “A well regulated Militia,” yet some people act like regulations are against the 2nd amendment.

Also, no amendment is absolute. The 1st amendment doesn’t mean you can scream “Fire!” In a crowded theater, commit libel, or show porn to kids.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

if you have a gun in your home, your suicide rate increases way more than your protection against invaders does. because as already noted, it is much more rare that a home intruder is killed than someone within the home is. which is not to say that firearms should be prohibited for home defense, but we all need to understand the implications

the unfortunate reality is that the gun that the gun owner loves so much is all too often his undoing in what might otherwise be a passing mental health crisis

You see this is the kind of nonsense argument that has and is getting us nowhere here.

well reasoned responses like yours are what gets us nowhere. what part of my reality based argument are you allergic to, mr. "pro gun" (really weird term)?

Pro gun was the term used by the person i was responding to. Reality based? Reasoned? I mean come on you just told me my suicide rate increases in my household. Get out of here with that. Guns dont make people want to kill themselves. You worry about how you handle your household and Ill worry about mine.

[dice]

You see this is the kind of nonsense argument that has and is getting us nowhere here.

well reasoned responses like yours are what gets us nowhere. what part of my reality based argument are you allergic to, mr. "pro gun" (really weird term)?

Pro gun was the term used by the person i was responding to. Reality based? Reasoned? I mean come on you just told me my suicide rate increases in my household. Get out of here with that.

you think i was talking about YOUR specific household? get the hell over yourself

Guns dont make people want to kill themselves.

i didn't say that either. stop being obtuse

THE. PRESENCE. OF. A. GUN. MAKES. IT. MUCH. MORE. LIKELY. THAT. SOMEONE. WHO. IS. SUICIDAL. ACTS. ON. IT!

clear enough for you?

and no, more guns in the hands of responsible gun owners does not mean less crime either:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/

go back to your alternate reality and hug your gun

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

well reasoned responses like yours are what gets us nowhere. what part of my reality based argument are you allergic to, mr. "pro gun" (really weird term)?

Pro gun was the term used by the person i was responding to. Reality based? Reasoned? I mean come on you just told me my suicide rate increases in my household. Get out of here with that.

you think i was talking about YOUR specific household? get the hell over yourself

Guns dont make people want to kill themselves.

i didn't say that either. stop being obtuse

THE. PRESENCE. OF. A. GUN. MAKES. IT. MUCH. MORE. LIKELY. THAT. SOMEONE. WHO. IS. SUICIDAL. ACTS. ON. IT!

clear enough for you?

and no, more guns in the hands of responsible gun owners does not mean less crime either:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/

go back to your alternate reality and hug your gun

Uh yeah i have a gun in my house so you were talking about me. Theres a lot of ways to commit suicide. Since you are the expert how about you figure out how to fix that issue while youre at it.

My firearms are all locked up and I only have access to them. They are my insurance policy to protect my family whether you agree with that or not. If you want to get back on topic to try and figure out a good middle ground I am more than willing to add restrictions to gun ownership. I also suggest we look more into how we fix families and mental illnesses.

[dice]

Pro gun was the term used by the person i was responding to. Reality based? Reasoned? I mean come on you just told me my suicide rate increases in my household. Get out of here with that.

you think i was talking about YOUR specific household? get the hell over yourself

Guns dont make people want to kill themselves.

i didn't say that either. stop being obtuse

THE. PRESENCE. OF. A. GUN. MAKES. IT. MUCH. MORE. LIKELY. THAT. SOMEONE. WHO. IS. SUICIDAL. ACTS. ON. IT!

clear enough for you?

and no, more guns in the hands of responsible gun owners does not mean less crime either:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/

go back to your alternate reality and hug your gun

Uh yeah i have a gun in my house so you were talking about me. Theres a lot of ways to commit suicide. Since you are the expert how about you figure out how to fix that issue while youre at it.

again talking around the reality of the situation

gun in the home increases suicide rate. fact. fact. fact. if you feel that your household is immune from that for whatever reason, that is your prerogative

My firearms are all locked up and I only have access to them. They are my insurance policy to protect my family whether you agree with that or not. If you want to get back on topic to try and figure out a good middle ground I am more than willing to add restrictions to gun ownership. I also suggest we look more into how we have fix families and mental illnesses.

i don't give a flying **** what you do to protect your family. i am merely telling you that for the average household in the united states of america, owning a gun is more likely to hurt the family than help it. then again, the average household probably doesn't take the precautions that you do

quite a while back i had a similar discussion with someone on the current affairs board who was adamant that it was OK to leave his gun cabinet unlocked because he had sternly warned his children not to go in there. mind blown

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

you think i was talking about YOUR specific household? get the hell over yourself




i didn't say that either. stop being obtuse

THE. PRESENCE. OF. A. GUN. MAKES. IT. MUCH. MORE. LIKELY. THAT. SOMEONE. WHO. IS. SUICIDAL. ACTS. ON. IT!

clear enough for you?

and no, more guns in the hands of responsible gun owners does not mean less crime either:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/

go back to your alternate reality and hug your gun

Uh yeah i have a gun in my house so you were talking about me. Theres a lot of ways to commit suicide. Since you are the expert how about you figure out how to fix that issue while youre at it.

again talking around the reality of the situation

gun in the home increases suicide rate. fact. fact. fact. if you feel that your household is immune from that for whatever reason, that is your prerogative

My firearms are all locked up and I only have access to them. They are my insurance policy to protect my family whether you agree with that or not. If you want to get back on topic to try and figure out a good middle ground I am more than willing to add restrictions to gun ownership. I also suggest we look more into how we have fix families and mental illnesses.

i don't give a flying **** what you do to protect your family. i am merely telling you that for the average household in the united states of america, owning a gun is more likely to hurt the family than help it. then again, the average household probably doesn't take the precautions that you do

quite a while back i had a similar discussion with someone on the current affairs board who was adamant that it was OK to leave his gun cabinet unlocked because he had sternly warned his children not to go in there. mind blown

Ive lived a long life of nothing but families that have guns and fortunately have never seen that. Yes there are irresponsible gun owners. But once again why did that person want to end their life? Nobody wants to focus on that because it’s easier to just blame guns. And we get nowhere.

And i dont need to hug my gun. Its not my guns that im in love with its my family. I know you dont give a **** about that but if more people did that then maybe we wouldn’t have the issues we have today.

[TheStig]

if you have a gun in your home, your suicide rate increases way more than your protection against invaders does. because as already noted, it is much more rare that a home intruder is killed than someone within the home is. which is not to say that firearms should be prohibited for home defense, but we all need to understand the implications

the unfortunate reality is that the gun that the gun owner loves so much is all too often his undoing in what might otherwise be a passing mental health crisis

You see this is the kind of nonsense argument that has and is getting us nowhere here.

well reasoned responses like yours are what gets us nowhere. what part of my reality based argument are you allergic to, mr. "pro gun" (really weird term)?

handgun ownership VASTLY increases suicide risk. that is a stone cold fact. countless studies

How does the hand gun cause people to be suicidal? I love how people point to inanimate objects and attribute behavioral issues to them. It would be like saying my toaster made me suicidal.

[TheStig]

So is your solution just to say "**** it" it's going to happen anyway?

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Look, Opoids kill more people and is a much higher epidemic. We still have those. Tons of people die from alcohol abuse, dui and alcohol related diseases, we still have that. Why are guns a bigger issue? We love the splashy headline because it's a big event but it's really not a signifigant source of death in this country from legally purchased guns. Most gun violence is from those involved in illegal activity and can't actually legally get a gun.

Because guns kill other people

Really? The guns get up out of the cases, load themselves and shoot people? That's the AI I would be worried about.

[dice]

You see this is the kind of nonsense argument that has and is getting us nowhere here.

well reasoned responses like yours are what gets us nowhere. what part of my reality based argument are you allergic to, mr. "pro gun" (really weird term)?

handgun ownership VASTLY increases suicide risk. that is a stone cold fact. countless studies

How does the hand gun cause people to be suicidal?

nobody ever said that. reading is fundamental. i clarified multiple times (and emphatically)

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Well that and its popular for modding with accessories. There are plenty of other semi automatic options out there that have the same rate of fire. Just look at the virginia tech shooter years back. Killed over 32 people with handguns. What im saying is people want to focus on something that is not going to resolve the main issue. The majority of the focus is on the ar15 which isnt even going to fix our issue. Go ahead ban ar15’s, i assure you there will still be mass shootings or killing. Theres an increase of mental instability. We need to aim at the base of the fire and we can clean some things up.

Are you saying that mental instability is only in the US? I am sure other countries have mental instability, but they do not even have the fraction of the amount of mass shootings we have. If you at least limit the instruments that these mental unstable people can have access to that will help save lives. Have lengthy background checks on individuals purchasing guns, raising a flag when an 18 year old purchases multiple rifles in a short period of time, etc are some reasonable things they can add. Causes for mental instability are many and vague. How are you going to address it? Some people say it is due to music, video games, social media, or movies. It is harder to put restrictions on those. Is the government going to force people to go see a psychiatrist to help with the mental instability? Maybe there should be a psychiatric evaluation before purchasing a gun?

I can speak on mental health issue with some experience. We have a very very serious case in our family and boy oh boy is the mental health field in a tough spot. I personally feel that we indeed have way too much access to guns, but the mental health aspect is a huge problem and we absolutely don't have the resources to handle the influx of people (particularly preteens-20) that I have personally seen. Now far from this is all violent crime, but there is a subculture of the youth that actually glorify "mental illness" I see groups who are way too young looking to get admitted into inpatient facilities, some if not many are absolutely legit, but some do it so that they have an excuse to have any behavior. This is somewhat off topic but it is absolutely an issue.

Everything that Crimio did was a red flag.... There should have been intervention. The system is just so overtaxed as it is that people like this can easily slip through the cracks though. It is a real shame. Just like a few years ago when the guy drove the SUV through wood field mall it was more a failing of the system as people who still need help as he did are released because of limited resources. Fortunately in that case it wasn't deadly, but it took him trying to drive people down in a mall to really get the attention it needed. Crimio is posting video's insinuating school shootings, threatening to kill family members, attempting suicide etc... We need to be able to flag someone like this and at the very least stop them from getting guns. More importantly would be to actually get the person the help they need, but that is a longer term problem.

.

It seems the topic of mental illness is just being ignored and when theres another mass shooting it instantly starts up the gun argument. Why aren’t we talking about ways to increase resources for mental illness. Can we get more funding? Are people worried about higher taxes? Lets get to the root of the problem and fix it. Yes stricter gun laws ok ok. But what is going on in this country with the people?

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

You see this is the kind of nonsense argument that has and is getting us nowhere here.

well reasoned responses like yours are what gets us nowhere. what part of my reality based argument are you allergic to, mr. "pro gun" (really weird term)?

handgun ownership VASTLY increases suicide risk. that is a stone cold fact. countless studies

How does the hand gun cause people to be suicidal? I love how people point to inanimate objects and attribute behavioral issues to them. It would be like saying my toaster made me suicidal.

Guns don’t make people suicidal any more than they make people murderous. But they make it easier for someone who has those impulses to follow through and therefore more likely that they will. I understand the temptation to look at your own life and say, “hey, I’m not killing myself or anyone else,” but this is a public health issue - it’s not just about you or the people in your close circle.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

well reasoned responses like yours are what gets us nowhere. what part of my reality based argument are you allergic to, mr. "pro gun" (really weird term)?

handgun ownership VASTLY increases suicide risk. that is a stone cold fact. countless studies

How does the hand gun cause people to be suicidal? I love how people point to inanimate objects and attribute behavioral issues to them. It would be like saying my toaster made me suicidal.

Guns don’t make people suicidal any more than they make people murderous. But they make it easier for someone who has those impulses to follow through and therefore more likely that they will. I understand the temptation to look at your own life and say, “hey, I’m not killing myself or anyone else,” but this is a public health issue - it’s not just about you or the people in your close circle.

Yes but guns are here and they always will be. Will they always be ar-15’s? I dunno but i dont think those are the gun of choice for suicides, I could be wrong. Suicide calls for much more difficult means of resolution than gun control. Suicide is a problem as a whole not just by guns.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Are you saying that mental instability is only in the US? I am sure other countries have mental instability, but they do not even have the fraction of the amount of mass shootings we have. If you at least limit the instruments that these mental unstable people can have access to that will help save lives. Have lengthy background checks on individuals purchasing guns, raising a flag when an 18 year old purchases multiple rifles in a short period of time, etc are some reasonable things they can add. Causes for mental instability are many and vague. How are you going to address it? Some people say it is due to music, video games, social media, or movies. It is harder to put restrictions on those. Is the government going to force people to go see a psychiatrist to help with the mental instability? Maybe there should be a psychiatric evaluation before purchasing a gun?

I can speak on mental health issue with some experience. We have a very very serious case in our family and boy oh boy is the mental health field in a tough spot. I personally feel that we indeed have way too much access to guns, but the mental health aspect is a huge problem and we absolutely don't have the resources to handle the influx of people (particularly preteens-20) that I have personally seen. Now far from this is all violent crime, but there is a subculture of the youth that actually glorify "mental illness" I see groups who are way too young looking to get admitted into inpatient facilities, some if not many are absolutely legit, but some do it so that they have an excuse to have any behavior. This is somewhat off topic but it is absolutely an issue.

Everything that Crimio did was a red flag.... There should have been intervention. The system is just so overtaxed as it is that people like this can easily slip through the cracks though. It is a real shame. Just like a few years ago when the guy drove the SUV through wood field mall it was more a failing of the system as people who still need help as he did are released because of limited resources. Fortunately in that case it wasn't deadly, but it took him trying to drive people down in a mall to really get the attention it needed. Crimio is posting video's insinuating school shootings, threatening to kill family members, attempting suicide etc... We need to be able to flag someone like this and at the very least stop them from getting guns. More importantly would be to actually get the person the help they need, but that is a longer term problem.

.

It seems the topic of mental illness is just being ignored and when theres another mass shooting it instantly starts up the gun argument. Why aren’t we talking about ways to increase resources for mental illness. Can we get more funding? Are people worried about higher taxes? Lets get to the root of the problem and fix it. Yes stricter gun laws ok ok. But what is going on in this country with the people?

I agree. We need both. This country has horrible mental health infrastructure. One reason is that the private insurance lobby has a stranglehold on both parties. Another is that one party only brings up mental health as a deflection from gun control. Then, when the heat dies down, they vote against stuff like Medicaid expansion and call it “communism” even though it could help a whole lot of people who are hurting.

If gun owners are serious about mental health, they need to call these leaders out on their con.