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Lauri:' I can make the comeback'

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Lauri extension?

Don't want to see one happen - let him show me more first
40
33%
4 years/$40M-$50M
22
18%
4 year/$50M-$65M
28
23%
4 years/$65M-$80M
22
18%
4 years/$80M+
6
5%
Other (explain)
4
3%
 
Total votes: 122

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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#321 » by Leslie Forman » Fri Dec 4, 2020 4:00 pm

coldfish wrote:I'll just have to repeat myself from months ago. If you need someone to create your shots for you, Lauri gets a LOT of shots. The people who shoot more than him do some combination of:
- Getting hustle shots by moving around a lot, getting offensive rebounds or loose balls.
- Creating shots for themselves off the dribble or with some type of array of moves

There is no world where a guy get 15 fga per game by just drifting around. Kyle Korver is far more active off ball than Lauri, is a much better shooter than Lauri and the most shots he ever got per game was 11.4. His next highest was 9.3.

I've said before that Lauri is like this franchise's Bargnani…

…I wonder if he's actually more like the franchise's Andrew Wiggins.

If both guys are the exact same players they are but were, say, the 26th pick instead, they are given a much smaller role on their teams and never put up anywhere near the raw counting stats they do.

They are looked at verrrrry differently then.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#322 » by coldfish » Fri Dec 4, 2020 4:03 pm

Indomitable wrote:
coldfish wrote:I'll just have to repeat myself from months ago. If you need someone to create your shots for you, Lauri gets a LOT of shots. The people who shoot more than him do some combination of:
- Getting hustle shots by moving around a lot, getting offensive rebounds or loose balls.
- Creating shots for themselves off the dribble or with some type of array of moves

There is no world where a guy get 15 fga per game by just drifting around. Kyle Korver is far more active off ball than Lauri, is a much better shooter than Lauri and the most shots he ever got per game was 11.4. His next highest was 9.3.

People fail to accept Lauri is at best a role player. I do not see a star. Every NBA player has highlights. He is a nice player but there is nothing special about him.


Its something that most people forget. The worst player in the NBA is really good at basketball. That's why I take those PWill gym videos with a grain of salt.

Regardless, you are right that just about any NBA player is capable of getting on a hot streak or having a highlight video. What separates the good ones is consistency and what gives those players consistency is the ability to overcome situations when things are stacked against them.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#323 » by Indomitable » Fri Dec 4, 2020 4:18 pm

coldfish wrote:
Indomitable wrote:
coldfish wrote:I'll just have to repeat myself from months ago. If you need someone to create your shots for you, Lauri gets a LOT of shots. The people who shoot more than him do some combination of:
- Getting hustle shots by moving around a lot, getting offensive rebounds or loose balls.
- Creating shots for themselves off the dribble or with some type of array of moves

There is no world where a guy get 15 fga per game by just drifting around. Kyle Korver is far more active off ball than Lauri, is a much better shooter than Lauri and the most shots he ever got per game was 11.4. His next highest was 9.3.

People fail to accept Lauri is at best a role player. I do not see a star. Every NBA player has highlights. He is a nice player but there is nothing special about him.


Its something that most people forget. The worst player in the NBA is really good at basketball. That's why I take those PWill gym videos with a grain of salt.

Regardless, you are right that just about any NBA player is capable of getting on a hot streak or having a highlight video. What separates the good ones is consistency and what gives those players consistency is the ability to overcome situations when things are stacked against them.

I
I also made a comparison to Dario. He is not as athletic as Lauri. Still Lauri skill level limits his ability to use his greater athleticism.
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=saricda01&player_id2=markkla01

Dario signed for 27 million over 3 years. Lauri will be looking for 20 million per season.

Lauri has no post game therefore you can guard him with a significantly smaller player. This hurts him on the other end because he has to chase much quicker players.

Plus, Lauri will not protect the rim. He is a dreadful Center. If he was adequate there. You might have a reason to overpay him.

To me he is just a guy.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#324 » by sco » Fri Dec 4, 2020 5:50 pm

BTW, I really wanted us to nab Saric on that exact deal back before FA began. I think folks are wrong to say Lauri is anything but marginally better, if at all. Saric has had too many coach/team changes to show how good he can be. But mainly, it shows the level of player you can get on a MLE deal...there's an opportunity cost of signing guys who are only marginally better for 2x that amount.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#325 » by Indomitable » Fri Dec 4, 2020 5:52 pm

sco wrote:BTW, I really wanted us to nab Saric on that exact deal back before FA began. I think folks are wrong to say Lauri is anything but marginally better, if at all. Saric has had too many coach/team changes to show how good he can be. But mainly, it shows the level of player you can get on a MLE deal...there's an opportunity cost of signing guys who are only marginally better for 2x that amount.

Lauri is not special. He is a nice player but nothing more.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#326 » by ZOMG » Fri Dec 4, 2020 7:17 pm

Indomitable wrote:
sco wrote:BTW, I really wanted us to nab Saric on that exact deal back before FA began. I think folks are wrong to say Lauri is anything but marginally better, if at all. Saric has had too many coach/team changes to show how good he can be. But mainly, it shows the level of player you can get on a MLE deal...there's an opportunity cost of signing guys who are only marginally better for 2x that amount.

Lauri is not special. He is a nice player but nothing more.


If he's just a guy, you can relax. He'll be super cheap. His contract won't cripple the franchise. Front offices know a guy who doesn't move the needle when they see one. 8-)

Right?
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#327 » by coldfish » Fri Dec 4, 2020 7:32 pm

ZOMG wrote:
Indomitable wrote:
sco wrote:BTW, I really wanted us to nab Saric on that exact deal back before FA began. I think folks are wrong to say Lauri is anything but marginally better, if at all. Saric has had too many coach/team changes to show how good he can be. But mainly, it shows the level of player you can get on a MLE deal...there's an opportunity cost of signing guys who are only marginally better for 2x that amount.

Lauri is not special. He is a nice player but nothing more.


If he's just a guy, you can relax. He'll be super cheap. His contract won't cripple the franchise. Front offices know a guy who doesn't move the needle when they see one. 8-)

Right?


Are we living in a world where the NBA doesn't have a long history of overpaying these type of players and then immediately regretting it?

IMO, this is why he has to get moved. Some idiot team is going to give him $20m per year OR he is going to decide to take the QO so he can go down to Dallas and chill. I really don't see a good outcome here for Chicago.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#328 » by cjbulls » Fri Dec 4, 2020 7:33 pm

Indomitable wrote:
sco wrote:BTW, I really wanted us to nab Saric on that exact deal back before FA began. I think folks are wrong to say Lauri is anything but marginally better, if at all. Saric has had too many coach/team changes to show how good he can be. But mainly, it shows the level of player you can get on a MLE deal...there's an opportunity cost of signing guys who are only marginally better for 2x that amount.

Lauri is not special. He is a nice player but nothing more.


So what do you do with that? It certainly appears they aren’t trading him and the market will not be big for him at the trade deadline.

He is likely to get paid well next offseason. Is their intention to match an overpay or just let the asset go for nothing?

AK seems to be establishing this team as a no tanking environment, which requires careful asset management. Their current (lack of) plan for Lauri seems to fly against the that idea.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#329 » by chefo » Fri Dec 4, 2020 7:44 pm

That whole thing about needing a post game to score on shorter (not necessarily that much lighter) players is a myth. As a matter of fact, post-ups are probably the least efficient way of scoring from down low or mid-post, unless you're a HOF level talent like Ewing, Shaq, Dream, Mailman or Sir Charles.

Let's get that out of the way--Lauri will likely NEVER be that kind of scorer. That doesn't mean you can't punish teams for guarding an athletic 7 footer in a million different ways. I started playing ball in the early 90s, and watched a lot of tape to see how players moved around the court. The way it was done in Europe versus the NBA was night and day... mostly because in Europe you rarely had HOF-level bigs and you could pack the paint with an honest zone and not be penalized for it.

The NBA now plays much more European-like basketball than 20 or 30 years ago. Both on O and on D, with obvious exceptions being any team LeBron is on. But I think a whole generation of coaches have kind of forgotten the basics of how you feed a tall big because I don't see it very often these days.

I mean, how many times have you seen one of our guards do the Stockton/Malone down screen at the baseline? If you guard a 7 footer with a 6'6 guy and he gets screened by a 6'4 guy being guarded by a 6'2 guy, all it takes is a mediocre lob to Lauri to get a dunk or a layup. How many times have we seen a high-low? Rolo used to do it fairly often with Lauri--this thing is like free cheese if your other big can make a FT jumper and there is no way to guard it unless you collapse the entire D on Lauri. It furthermore helps him because he can leverage down with an elbow in his defender's back, rather than trying to back down a player that is likely as strong and has a lower center of gravity. How about putting him at the elbow for an ISO versus at the 3? I mean, it's a dribble and a dunk or a semi-open jumper, if the defender is smaller.

There are a score of ways to get somebody like Lauri the ball in motion cutting to the hoop where a small can pretty much do nothing about it if Lauri rises up for a layup or a 8 ft floater.

Some of that stuff people used to run for Dream, Admiral, Bird, McHale, Mailman. I know it takes discipline to do that regularly and understanding of the pecking order on a team, but Lauri is not some kind of stiff who won't convert, especially if he's being guarded by a SF.

Here's the big BUT. Last year, the system BY DESIGN excluded ALL of the above from the playbook because it did not fit the 3&Layups system. Lauri got the ball, like EVERY other spacer on the team, at the 3 point line.

Before Giannis, I can't recall ANY player that was close to 7 feet who could drive into traffic with success from there. It's 3 or 4 dribbles for the big. Unless the other team was extremely undisciplined, that would mean the paint would be packed a second into the drive.

There's a reason a bunch of the all-time greats got the ball in the mid-post and the elbow, preferably. It wasn't because players and coaches 40 years ago were dumb. For an agile, non-Shaq, big that's the optimal place because if gives the scorer a lot of options depending on who's guarding him. A slow, big--one dribble and attack the basket. A shorter big--rise up for a 15 ft jumper. An even smaller wing or a G--either, depending on how strong the defender is.

I mean, everybody who's ever played organized ball understands the above on some level. Just 15 years ago Dirk made a freakin' living in the mid-post. Yeah, he could shoot, but his sweet spot were his little fadeaways and driving, if they put a big on him.

Anyhow, coach D has probably forgotten more about ball than I'll ever know, so my guess is that he'll find a way to get a 7 footer who can both do 360 dunks AND shoot 7 3s a game at a decent clip to play better than last year.

If you can lock up Lauri before he goes back to being a 20/8 player for 15-17M / year, you do it because if coach D resurrects Lauri's career, you'll have to pay him 10 more per than that.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#330 » by Indomitable » Fri Dec 4, 2020 7:56 pm

cjbulls wrote:
Indomitable wrote:
sco wrote:BTW, I really wanted us to nab Saric on that exact deal back before FA began. I think folks are wrong to say Lauri is anything but marginally better, if at all. Saric has had too many coach/team changes to show how good he can be. But mainly, it shows the level of player you can get on a MLE deal...there's an opportunity cost of signing guys who are only marginally better for 2x that amount.

Lauri is not special. He is a nice player but nothing more.


So what do you do with that? It certainly appears they aren’t trading him and the market will not be big for him at the trade deadline.

He is likely to get paid well next offseason. Is their intention to match an overpay or just let the asset go for nothing?

AK seems to be establishing this team as a no tanking environment, which requires careful asset management. Their current (lack of) plan for Lauri seems to fly against the that idea.

Maybe use the 50 million dollars in capspace to add players that are versatile.

Lauri is nothing special. If Lauri actually show some consistency or become a Bertans type shooter. Let me know.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#331 » by coldfish » Fri Dec 4, 2020 7:57 pm

chefo wrote:That whole thing about needing a post game to score on shorter (not necessarily that much lighter) players is a myth. As a matter of fact, post-ups are probably the least efficient way of scoring from down low or mid-post, unless you're a HOF level talent like Ewing, Shaq, Dream, Mailman or Sir Charles.

Let's get that out of the way--Lauri will likely NEVER be that kind of scorer. That doesn't mean you can't punish teams for guarding an athletic 7 footer in a million different ways. I started playing ball in the early 90s, and watched a lot of tape to see how players moved around the court. The way it was done in Europe versus the NBA was night and day... mostly because in Europe you rarely had HOF-level bigs and you could pack the paint with an honest zone and not be penalized for it.

The NBA now plays much more European-like basketball than 20 or 30 years ago. Both on O and on D, with obvious exceptions being any team LeBron is on. But I think a whole generation of coaches have kind of forgotten the basics of how you feed a tall big because I don't see it very often these days.

I mean, how many times have you seen one of our guards do the Stockton/Malone down screen at the baseline? If you guard a 7 footer with a 6'6 guy and he gets screened by a 6'4 guy being guarded by a 6'2 guy, all it takes is a mediocre lob to Lauri to get a dunk or a layup. How many times have we seen a high-low? Rolo used to do it fairly often with Lauri--this thing is like free cheese if your other big can make a FT jumper and there is no way to guard it unless you collapse the entire D on Lauri. It furthermore helps him because he can leverage down with an elbow in his defender's back, rather than trying to back down a player that is likely as strong and has a lower center of gravity. How about putting him at the elbow for an ISO versus at the 3? I mean, it's a dribble and a dunk or a semi-open jumper, if the defender is smaller.

There are a score of ways to get somebody like Lauri the ball in motion cutting to the hoop where a small can pretty much do nothing about it if Lauri rises up for a layup or a 8 ft floater.

Some of that stuff people used to run for Dream, Admiral, Bird, McHale, Mailman. I know it takes discipline to do that regularly and understanding of the pecking order on a team, but Lauri is not some kind of stiff who won't convert, especially if he's being guarded by a SF.

Here's the big BUT. Last year, the system BY DESIGN excluded ALL of the above from the playbook because it did not fit the 3&Layups system. Lauri got the ball, like EVERY other spacer on the team, at the 3 point line.

Before Giannis, I can't recall ANY player that was close to 7 feet who could drive into traffic with success from there. It's 3 or 4 dribbles for the big. Unless the other team was extremely undisciplined, that would mean the paint would be packed a second into the drive.

There's a reason a bunch of the all-time greats got the ball in the mid-post and the elbow, preferably. It wasn't because players and coaches 40 years ago were dumb. For an agile, non-Shaq, big that's the optimal place because if gives the scorer a lot of options depending on who's guarding him. A slow, big--one dribble and attack the basket. A shorter big--rise up for a 15 ft jumper. An even smaller wing or a G--either, depending on how strong the defender is.

I mean, everybody who's ever played organized ball understands the above on some level. Just 15 years ago Dirk made a freakin' living in the mid-post. Yeah, he could shoot, but his sweet spot were his little fadeaways and driving, if they put a big on him.

Anyhow, coach D has probably forgotten more about ball than I'll ever know, so my guess is that he'll find a way to get a 7 footer who can both do 360 dunks AND shoot 7 3s a game at a decent clip to play better than last year.

If you can lock up Lauri before he goes back to being a 20/8 player for 15-17M / year, you do it because if coach D resurrects Lauri's career, you'll have to pay him 10 more per than that.


The general problem is the large quantity of 6'8" or 6'9" guys around the league who are athletic. Lauri generally tends to struggle to shoot over them with his jumper and he can't take them off the dribble. Without some ability to use his height to get off a good shot, Lauri can largely be neutralized by small ball.

As you note, it doesn't have to be traditional post play. The old Dirk stuff in the high to mid post would be awesome. He just needs something in his pocket to consistently punish teams for putting a PWill type on him.

Overall, Lauri needs to be a 5. That's his best position on offense. He pulls the opposing center out to the 3p line and if the guy gets too close, he can drive by him. He doesn't have to change a thing and he is effective. Unfortunately, then the defensive problem gets exacerbated. Ideally you want your center to be able to body up other big men AND be a good help defender and Lauri is neither.

Lauri isn't a 4 in today's NBA on offense. While he might be fast for a 7 footer, he isn't fast for an NBA 4. As a 4, he is simply a pick and pop / stand around the arc guy.

Hopefully Lauri has been killing it for the last few months and comes out with a drastically improved game so we can all gush over how awesome he is and forget about this stuff.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#332 » by Indomitable » Fri Dec 4, 2020 8:04 pm

coldfish wrote:
chefo wrote:That whole thing about needing a post game to score on shorter (not necessarily that much lighter) players is a myth. As a matter of fact, post-ups are probably the least efficient way of scoring from down low or mid-post, unless you're a HOF level talent like Ewing, Shaq, Dream, Mailman or Sir Charles.

Let's get that out of the way--Lauri will likely NEVER be that kind of scorer. That doesn't mean you can't punish teams for guarding an athletic 7 footer in a million different ways. I started playing ball in the early 90s, and watched a lot of tape to see how players moved around the court. The way it was done in Europe versus the NBA was night and day... mostly because in Europe you rarely had HOF-level bigs and you could pack the paint with an honest zone and not be penalized for it.

The NBA now plays much more European-like basketball than 20 or 30 years ago. Both on O and on D, with obvious exceptions being any team LeBron is on. But I think a whole generation of coaches have kind of forgotten the basics of how you feed a tall big because I don't see it very often these days.

I mean, how many times have you seen one of our guards do the Stockton/Malone down screen at the baseline? If you guard a 7 footer with a 6'6 guy and he gets screened by a 6'4 guy being guarded by a 6'2 guy, all it takes is a mediocre lob to Lauri to get a dunk or a layup. How many times have we seen a high-low? Rolo used to do it fairly often with Lauri--this thing is like free cheese if your other big can make a FT jumper and there is no way to guard it unless you collapse the entire D on Lauri. It furthermore helps him because he can leverage down with an elbow in his defender's back, rather than trying to back down a player that is likely as strong and has a lower center of gravity. How about putting him at the elbow for an ISO versus at the 3? I mean, it's a dribble and a dunk or a semi-open jumper, if the defender is smaller.

There are a score of ways to get somebody like Lauri the ball in motion cutting to the hoop where a small can pretty much do nothing about it if Lauri rises up for a layup or a 8 ft floater.

Some of that stuff people used to run for Dream, Admiral, Bird, McHale, Mailman. I know it takes discipline to do that regularly and understanding of the pecking order on a team, but Lauri is not some kind of stiff who won't convert, especially if he's being guarded by a SF.

Here's the big BUT. Last year, the system BY DESIGN excluded ALL of the above from the playbook because it did not fit the 3&Layups system. Lauri got the ball, like EVERY other spacer on the team, at the 3 point line.

Before Giannis, I can't recall ANY player that was close to 7 feet who could drive into traffic with success from there. It's 3 or 4 dribbles for the big. Unless the other team was extremely undisciplined, that would mean the paint would be packed a second into the drive.

There's a reason a bunch of the all-time greats got the ball in the mid-post and the elbow, preferably. It wasn't because players and coaches 40 years ago were dumb. For an agile, non-Shaq, big that's the optimal place because if gives the scorer a lot of options depending on who's guarding him. A slow, big--one dribble and attack the basket. A shorter big--rise up for a 15 ft jumper. An even smaller wing or a G--either, depending on how strong the defender is.

I mean, everybody who's ever played organized ball understands the above on some level. Just 15 years ago Dirk made a freakin' living in the mid-post. Yeah, he could shoot, but his sweet spot were his little fadeaways and driving, if they put a big on him.

Anyhow, coach D has probably forgotten more about ball than I'll ever know, so my guess is that he'll find a way to get a 7 footer who can both do 360 dunks AND shoot 7 3s a game at a decent clip to play better than last year.

If you can lock up Lauri before he goes back to being a 20/8 player for 15-17M / year, you do it because if coach D resurrects Lauri's career, you'll have to pay him 10 more per than that.


The general problem is the large quantity of 6'8" or 6'9" guys around the league who are athletic. Lauri generally tends to struggle to shoot over them with his jumper and he can't take them off the dribble. Without some ability to use his height to get off a good shot, Lauri can largely be neutralized by small ball.

As you note, it doesn't have to be traditional post play. The old Dirk stuff in the high to mid post would be awesome. He just needs something in his pocket to consistently punish teams for putting a PWill type on him.

Overall, Lauri needs to be a 5. That's his best position on offense. He pulls the opposing center out to the 3p line and if the guy gets too close, he can drive by him. He doesn't have to change a thing and he is effective. Unfortunately, then the defensive problem gets exacerbated. Ideally you want your center to be able to body up other big men AND be a good help defender and Lauri is neither.

Lauri isn't a 4 in today's NBA on offense. While he might be fast for a 7 footer, he isn't fast for an NBA 4. As a 4, he is simply a pick and pop / stand around the arc guy.

Hopefully Lauri has been killing it for the last few months and comes out with a drastically improved game so we can all gush over how awesome he is and forget about this stuff.

Give us Lauri in 2011 and we beat the Heat.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#333 » by dougthonus » Fri Dec 4, 2020 8:06 pm

cjbulls wrote:So what do you do with that? It certainly appears they aren’t trading him and the market will not be big for him at the trade deadline.

He is likely to get paid well next offseason. Is their intention to match an overpay or just let the asset go for nothing?

AK seems to be establishing this team as a no tanking environment, which requires careful asset management. Their current (lack of) plan for Lauri seems to fly against the that idea.


I doubt they have a lack of a plan. My guess is that they explored trade value on all players and that with Lauri they found his trade value was very poor. So now they will let him play a year and then make a rationale decision about him in the off-season.

There is no predetermined outcome to this plan, its a "see what makes sense when we have to actually commit dollars" type of deal.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#334 » by ZOMG » Fri Dec 4, 2020 8:18 pm

dougthonus wrote:
cjbulls wrote:So what do you do with that? It certainly appears they aren’t trading him and the market will not be big for him at the trade deadline.

He is likely to get paid well next offseason. Is their intention to match an overpay or just let the asset go for nothing?

AK seems to be establishing this team as a no tanking environment, which requires careful asset management. Their current (lack of) plan for Lauri seems to fly against the that idea.


I doubt they have a lack of a plan. My guess is that they explored trade value on all players and that with Lauri they found his trade value was very poor. So now they will let him play a year and then make a rationale decision about him in the off-season.

There is no predetermined outcome to this plan, its a "see what makes sense when we have to actually commit dollars" type of deal.


There's much less evidence for that (i.e. none whatsoever) than there is for the FO dangling both Zach and Wendell.

I'm not really sure why it's so hard to accept that the new FO may in fact consider Lauri a building block worth keeping - instead of an "asset" getting turned into a draft pick or something at some point.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#335 » by Louri » Fri Dec 4, 2020 8:31 pm

chefo wrote:That whole thing about needing a post game to score on shorter (not necessarily that much lighter) players is a myth. As a matter of fact, post-ups are probably the least efficient way of scoring from down low or mid-post, unless you're a HOF level talent like Ewing, Shaq, Dream, Mailman or Sir Charles.

Let's get that out of the way--Lauri will likely NEVER be that kind of scorer. That doesn't mean you can't punish teams for guarding an athletic 7 footer in a million different ways. I started playing ball in the early 90s, and watched a lot of tape to see how players moved around the court. The way it was done in Europe versus the NBA was night and day... mostly because in Europe you rarely had HOF-level bigs and you could pack the paint with an honest zone and not be penalized for it.

The NBA now plays much more European-like basketball than 20 or 30 years ago. Both on O and on D, with obvious exceptions being any team LeBron is on. But I think a whole generation of coaches have kind of forgotten the basics of how you feed a tall big because I don't see it very often these days.

I mean, how many times have you seen one of our guards do the Stockton/Malone down screen at the baseline? If you guard a 7 footer with a 6'6 guy and he gets screened by a 6'4 guy being guarded by a 6'2 guy, all it takes is a mediocre lob to Lauri to get a dunk or a layup. How many times have we seen a high-low? Rolo used to do it fairly often with Lauri--this thing is like free cheese if your other big can make a FT jumper and there is no way to guard it unless you collapse the entire D on Lauri. It furthermore helps him because he can leverage down with an elbow in his defender's back, rather than trying to back down a player that is likely as strong and has a lower center of gravity. How about putting him at the elbow for an ISO versus at the 3? I mean, it's a dribble and a dunk or a semi-open jumper, if the defender is smaller.

There are a score of ways to get somebody like Lauri the ball in motion cutting to the hoop where a small can pretty much do nothing about it if Lauri rises up for a layup or a 8 ft floater.

Some of that stuff people used to run for Dream, Admiral, Bird, McHale, Mailman. I know it takes discipline to do that regularly and understanding of the pecking order on a team, but Lauri is not some kind of stiff who won't convert, especially if he's being guarded by a SF.

Here's the big BUT. Last year, the system BY DESIGN excluded ALL of the above from the playbook because it did not fit the 3&Layups system. Lauri got the ball, like EVERY other spacer on the team, at the 3 point line.

Before Giannis, I can't recall ANY player that was close to 7 feet who could drive into traffic with success from there. It's 3 or 4 dribbles for the big. Unless the other team was extremely undisciplined, that would mean the paint would be packed a second into the drive.

There's a reason a bunch of the all-time greats got the ball in the mid-post and the elbow, preferably. It wasn't because players and coaches 40 years ago were dumb. For an agile, non-Shaq, big that's the optimal place because if gives the scorer a lot of options depending on who's guarding him. A slow, big--one dribble and attack the basket. A shorter big--rise up for a 15 ft jumper. An even smaller wing or a G--either, depending on how strong the defender is.

I mean, everybody who's ever played organized ball understands the above on some level. Just 15 years ago Dirk made a freakin' living in the mid-post. Yeah, he could shoot, but his sweet spot were his little fadeaways and driving, if they put a big on him.

Anyhow, coach D has probably forgotten more about ball than I'll ever know, so my guess is that he'll find a way to get a 7 footer who can both do 360 dunks AND shoot 7 3s a game at a decent clip to play better than last year.

If you can lock up Lauri before he goes back to being a 20/8 player for 15-17M / year, you do it because if coach D resurrects Lauri's career, you'll have to pay him 10 more per than that.


This is bashing thread, There is no room for quality posts. So get F out of this topic.

I think AK has seen enough already in practices and want to sign Lauri long term just for potential only. My biggest concern has been his shooting mechanism as it has looked always a bit different. Now as he has tweaked his shot, I hope it will be more stable. I don't wait for miracles this season as it's been long off season without basketball and new coaching staff has just landed to CHI. If Lauri sign long term with Bulls, then I believe new coach and staff will get more out from him later.
"Larry Nance Jr is better than Lauri Markkanen" -RealGM 2021
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#336 » by cjbulls » Fri Dec 4, 2020 8:52 pm

dougthonus wrote:
cjbulls wrote:So what do you do with that? It certainly appears they aren’t trading him and the market will not be big for him at the trade deadline.

He is likely to get paid well next offseason. Is their intention to match an overpay or just let the asset go for nothing?

AK seems to be establishing this team as a no tanking environment, which requires careful asset management. Their current (lack of) plan for Lauri seems to fly against the that idea.


I doubt they have a lack of a plan. My guess is that they explored trade value on all players and that with Lauri they found his trade value was very poor. So now they will let him play a year and then make a rationale decision about him in the off-season.

There is no predetermined outcome to this plan, its a "see what makes sense when we have to actually commit dollars" type of deal.


I mean the bolded is a pure guess since we heard nothing about Lauri in trade rumors (only that hey wanted to keep him over other players) and we know several teams trying to move their picks and/or planning for a current run like the Celtics with #14. So do you consider a mid 1st pick as very poor?

It’s clear they don’t have a predetermined outcome but they just kicked the can down the road which is highly likely to result in an overpay or a loss of the asset for nothing. They bought themselves a lottery ticket that seems highly unlikely to truly pay off.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#337 » by cjbulls » Fri Dec 4, 2020 8:54 pm

Indomitable wrote:
cjbulls wrote:
Indomitable wrote:Lauri is not special. He is a nice player but nothing more.


So what do you do with that? It certainly appears they aren’t trading him and the market will not be big for him at the trade deadline.

He is likely to get paid well next offseason. Is their intention to match an overpay or just let the asset go for nothing?

AK seems to be establishing this team as a no tanking environment, which requires careful asset management. Their current (lack of) plan for Lauri seems to fly against the that idea.

Maybe use the 50 million dollars in capspace to add players that are versatile.

Lauri is nothing special. If Lauri actually show some consistency or become a Bertans type shooter. Let me know.


But then why is he still on the roster? They should move him if that’s the thought.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#338 » by Indomitable » Fri Dec 4, 2020 9:05 pm

cjbulls wrote:
Indomitable wrote:
cjbulls wrote:
So what do you do with that? It certainly appears they aren’t trading him and the market will not be big for him at the trade deadline.

He is likely to get paid well next offseason. Is their intention to match an overpay or just let the asset go for nothing?

AK seems to be establishing this team as a no tanking environment, which requires careful asset management. Their current (lack of) plan for Lauri seems to fly against the that idea.

Maybe use the 50 million dollars in capspace to add players that are versatile.

Lauri is nothing special. If Lauri actually show some consistency or become a Bertans type shooter. Let me know.


But then why is he still on the roster? They should move him if that’s the thought.

Because they will see if he can actually play Center. Maybe he will find away to punish teams for putting a sf on him. They have nothing to lose in evaluating the roster.

What are the Bulls missing out on? His value will be the same in Feb if he is the same player he has been for 4 years. This about evaluation. You act like the Bulls are in the planning on competing for the title.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#339 » by Dez » Fri Dec 4, 2020 10:14 pm

Yeah there's no trade rumours about Lauri because he's a RFA at the end of the season.

Why would a team trade for someone they can get for nothing in a season? That and he has no value.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#340 » by cjbulls » Fri Dec 4, 2020 10:23 pm

Indomitable wrote:
cjbulls wrote:
Indomitable wrote:Maybe use the 50 million dollars in capspace to add players that are versatile.

Lauri is nothing special. If Lauri actually show some consistency or become a Bertans type shooter. Let me know.


But then why is he still on the roster? They should move him if that’s the thought.

Because they will see if he can actually play Center. Maybe he will find away to punish teams for putting a sf on him. They have nothing to lose in evaluating the roster.

What are the Bulls missing out on? His value will be the same in Feb if he is the same player he has been for 4 years. This about evaluation. You act like the Bulls are in the planning on competing for the title.


He had value earlier this offseason, particularly before the draft. That is what they have to lose and have lost. We already know he can’t play center.

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