WT- Nate unlikely to be back (WAIT! + instagram pic pg 81!)

Post #341 » by **HomoSapien** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 5:58 pm

Why are we talking about 12 games as if Nate did nothing the entire season? He was probably one of our three best players.

We're talking about giving a guy who can have an impact on playoff games a tiny contract. No one is talking about giving Nate Robinson anything sizable. If you don't want to keep Robinson a reasonable contract, then you probably simply don't want Robinson period. That's fine, but there's no reason to diminish what he did the whole year.

Post #342 » by **Rerisen** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:01 pm

If playoff sample was treated the way it was with Korver, people would be riding Deng out of here on pitchforks. For his play even before the spinal tap incident.

Chitownbulls · Post #343 » by **Chitownbulls** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:05 pm

He helped us wayyyyyy more than hurt us. We lose to the nets without Nate Robinson. 1st round exit.

He's tough too, football players mentality, he won't back down to anyone. The HEAT had trouble guarding him an Bron even had to take the defensive assignment because of it. It's extremely tough to stay in front of this kid. Way to much speed an explosion.

League Circles · Post #344 » by **League Circles** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:05 pm

It hadn't occurred to me really that if nobody gives Nate the MMLE (or MLE, BAE, etc), we can still outbid all other teams offering the minimum by giving him his 20% non bird rights raise. That's like an extra 250k or so to Nate.

Post #345 » by **HomoSapien** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:06 pm

Rerisen wrote:If playoff sample was treated the way it was with Korver, people would be riding Deng out of here on pitchforks. For his play even before the spinal tap incident.

Let's be honest. The reason is, because around here, if your known for defense then all else is forgiven. Defense is viewed as a selfless act, whereas being adept at offense is viewed as being selfish.

Magilla_Gorilla · Post #346 » by **Magilla_Gorilla** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:06 pm

Did Nate do anything appreciably different for the Bulls last season then he did for the Warriors the season before? Hell, his PER was actually lower in CHI then in GSW.

And yet he was sitting on the trash heap waiting for the Bulls to pick him up for the minimum. It looks like Nates deficiencies outweigh everything else he brings to a team. Especially a team that is getting back a 36 mpg player at Nate's position and has a 5 million dollar player as the backup.

I'd take Nate again at the vet min for next year - but where does he play?

Mr Funk · Post #347 » by **Mr Funk** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:09 pm

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:I'd take Nate again at the vet min for next year - but where does he play?

Shooting guard, backing up Buckets:

"The thing is about Nate, and again thought he had a very good year, but in the last month and a half I thought he and Kirk played extremely well together, and Nate was more at the two. I like that versatility, so I wouldn't rule anything out." - Thibs

Rose/Kirk/Teague
Buckets/Nate/Snell
Deng/Dorkleavy
Booze/Taj/Murphy/Thomas?
Noah/vet min/Nazr

League Circles · Post #348 » by **League Circles** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:09 pm

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:where does he play?

Primary backup PG for sure:

5: Noah, Nazr, ?
4: Boozer, Taj, Murphy/Thomas
3: Deng, Dunleavy, Snell
2: Butler, Kirk, Snell
1: Rose, Nate, Teague

Works for me.

Post #349 » by **HomoSapien** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:10 pm

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:Did Nate do anything appreciably different for the Bulls last season then he did for the Warriors the season before? Hell, his PER was actually lower in CHI then in GSW.

And yet he was sitting on the trash heap waiting for the Bulls to pick him up for the minimum. It looks like Nates deficiencies outweigh everything else he brings to a team. Especially a team that is getting back a 36 mpg player at Nate's position and has a 5 million dollar player as the backup.

I'd take Nate again at the vet min for next year - but where does he play?

Before Nate played on the Bulls most of us, including me, had a negative opinion about him. He changed that perception by playing well for a winner. That was the biggest difference between his time in Chicago and his time in Golden State.

In a different thread you mentioned playing Teague so that Hinrich could remain healthy for the playoffs. Do that, but do it with Nate. Play Hinrich when we need stops. That's how he should be used at this point in his career, and I know he'd thrive at it too.

Post #350 » by **Rerisen** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:14 pm

Gar Paxdorf wrote:
Magilla_Gorilla wrote:where does he play?

Primary backup PG for sure:

5: Noah, Nazr, ?
4: Boozer, Taj, Murphy/Thomas
3: Deng, Dunleavy, Snell
2: Butler, Kirk, Snell
1: Rose, Nate, Teague

Works for me.

Aye, cut Deng's minutes way down.

Need a more stable backup C than Nazr though. Maybe Taj can play there more.

The second unit needs a shot creator, that would be Nate. Gonna be tough on Kirk otherwise.

Magilla_Gorilla · Post #351 » by **Magilla_Gorilla** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:17 pm

Rerisen wrote:
Gar Paxdorf wrote:
Magilla_Gorilla wrote:where does he play?

Primary backup PG for sure:

5: Noah, Nazr, ?
4: Boozer, Taj, Murphy/Thomas
3: Deng, Dunleavy, Snell
2: Butler, Kirk, Snell
1: Rose, Nate, Teague

Works for me.

Aye, cut Deng's minutes way down.

Need a more stable backup C than Nazr though. Maybe Taj can play there more.

Dunleavy can handle 20 mpg easy - and with Buckets able to slide over to the three as well there is absolutely no reason for Deng to play more then 32-33 minutes. The Bulls need to see what happens to Dengs efficiency when he's not playing 40 minutes a game.

Post #352 » by **HomoSapien** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:20 pm

Ideally Rose's minutes are kept to about 36 a game. I think this season, the Bulls will start out some what cautious with his playing time.

That right there gives 12 minutes to Nate. I would also give him about 8 minutes to play with DRose as a shooting guard. My guess is that more times then not, the opposing team will be forced to play small ball as well to matchup. If they go big and it's affecting us, then all we have to do is sub out Nate and play Kirk instead.

The nights where we get good Nate, we play him 20 minutes or more. The nights where we get "bad" Nate we play him sparingly.

Chitownbulls · Post #353 » by **Chitownbulls** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:35 pm

Rose, Hinrich
Butler, Nate
Deng, Dunleavy
Booz, taj
Noah, FA, Nazr

Backup SG, he's the 6th man scorer. It gives us depth, rose wont have to play the huge minutes all the time, an it will also help keep Hinrich healthy. I view Nate more as a SG for us.

Red Larrivee · Post #354 » by **Red Larrivee** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:49 pm

Nate gets the backup PG minutes. Unless Teague shows something dramatic in summer league or team workouts, I would seriously consider not exercising his team option for 2014-15.

Basically you just have to convince Nate that:

1. He's still going to have a big role next season. Question is, do the Bulls want him to have a big role? Remember Gar is a huge Teague fan according to reports.

2. Nate can make more than veteran minimum here, if those are the only offers he's getting. 120% of his previous salary.

3. If Nate finishes the season as a Bull, he can qualify for the Early Bird next year, which will pay him 175% of his 2013-14 salary. He can either return to the Bulls for that much money or we can give him that money in a sign-and-trade. Either way, he benefits, we benefit.

Post #355 » by **Rerisen** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:57 pm

HomoSapien wrote:Ideally Rose's minutes are kept to about 36 a game.

Or even less till the playoffs.

But without Nate, or any suitable replacement, hard to see how that happens.

Can only imagine how many games Rose will have to be 'rushed back in' when the second unit is out there struggling to do anything getting shot clock violations.

League Circles · Post #356 » by **League Circles** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 6:59 pm

It's a good thing if none of Nate, Kirk, Dunleavy or Snell have to play more than 15 mpg. Not everyone on the team will get minutes, nor should they. The great thing about all of those perimeter backups, including Teague of course also, is that none of them are being paid a lot and none deserve or need entitlement minutes. If Snell gets 60 DNPs, fine. If Kirk averages 11 mpg, fine. Same with Nate, MDJ, etc.

But most likely, Kirk will miss a bunch of games, MDJ will miss some, and Snell won't be someone we want to rely on every night. Depth is good, especially when it's not a bunch of whining guys with agendas who get paid a lot.

League Circles · Post #357 » by **League Circles** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 7:02 pm

I'm an enormous Nate fan, but I don't really think Thibbs is. Sure, he wanted him for the minimum this season as what he expected to be a JL3 role guy behind Kirk and later Rose and Kirk, but even after so many heroics, Thibbs never really gave Nate a lot of credit. I try not to read too much into it, but I think Thibbs was given many chances to praise Nate publicly and almost always hesitated. Maybe he just thinks that Nate is a guy that responds poorly to praise or something, but I can't help but think Thibbs might actually prefer Kirk and Teague. I don't, but it's not quite as bad if they have shooters around and are playing against backups. We'll see.

Chitownbulls · Post #358 » by **Chitownbulls** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 7:05 pm

With so many teams tanking this season, I can see Nate, Kirk, taj an Dun-Leave-Me open get a lot of minutes this season.

Rose Noah an Deng will finally get some rest.

Mr Funk · Post #359 » by **Mr Funk** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 7:10 pm

Gar Paxdorf wrote:I'm an enormous Nate fan, but I don't really think Thibbs is. Sure, he wanted him for the minimum this season as what he expected to be a JL3 role guy behind Kirk and later Rose and Kirk, but even after so many heroics, Thibbs never really gave Nate a lot of credit. I try not to read too much into it, but I think Thibbs was given many chances to praise Nate publicly and almost always hesitated. Maybe he just thinks that Nate is a guy that responds poorly to praise or something, but I can't help but think Thibbs might actually prefer Kirk and Teague. I don't, but it's not quite as bad if they have shooters around and are playing against backups. We'll see.

Mr Funk wrote:"The thing is about Nate, and again thought he had a very good year, but in the last month and a half I thought he and Kirk played extremely well together, and Nate was more at the two. I like that versatility, so I wouldn't rule anything out." - Thibs

Magilla_Gorilla · Post #360 » by **Magilla_Gorilla** » Wed Jul 3, 2013 7:13 pm

Mr Funk wrote:
Gar Paxdorf wrote:I'm an enormous Nate fan, but I don't really think Thibbs is. Sure, he wanted him for the minimum this season as what he expected to be a JL3 role guy behind Kirk and later Rose and Kirk, but even after so many heroics, Thibbs never really gave Nate a lot of credit. I try not to read too much into it, but I think Thibbs was given many chances to praise Nate publicly and almost always hesitated. Maybe he just thinks that Nate is a guy that responds poorly to praise or something, but I can't help but think Thibbs might actually prefer Kirk and Teague. I don't, but it's not quite as bad if they have shooters around and are playing against backups. We'll see.

Mr Funk wrote:"The thing is about Nate, and again thought he had a very good year, but in the last month and a half I thought he and Kirk played extremely well together, and Nate was more at the two. I like that versatility, so I wouldn't rule anything out." - Thibs

This is the same guy who said 'We have enough to win' when he was trotting out Nate/Belly/Buckets/Boozer/Noah against the Heat. So I'll take what he says with a grain of salt.