OT: COVID-19 thread #4

[Dresden]

Not sure if you guys follow the numbers:

Read on Twitter

The US peaked for prevalence a few weeks ago and things are going down pretty strongly right now. This is something that the models I have seen predicted. Fatalities are still high but there is frequently a multi-week lag time on reporting for fatalities. The stuff reported today probably happened 2 weeks ago and any decrease isn't going to be seen quite yet.

Regardless of what the Biden administration does the prevalence was going to go down by a good bit. The real challenge is going to be figuring out what to do at the bottom. Is covid going to stick around forever? Can we totally get rid of it?

There are going to be some difficult choices to make in May or so. Up until then, get the vaccines moving as quickly as possible.

It also depends on the new strains going around though. Those could start a new surge.

[TheSuzerain]

What should happen is that Vaccines should be made basically mandatory (even if we need the market to make that happen instead of overt government action because Americans are babies about that stuff).

That's how you prevent COVID from sticking around.

To the best of my knowledge, we have never been able to get rid of a disease like covid. Even with a virus like measles with a lifetime 96% effective vaccine that most people take, it still keeps coming back. Coronaviruses tend to evade immunity in 6 months to a year and people will get them over and over and over.

I strongly suspect that if you got everyone in the US vaccinated, the virus would hang out at a low level for a while and then start coming back. Either we are going to have to do an incredible job globally to beat this or we are going to have to just live with it.

Like I said, there is going to be some tough decisions for the Biden administration once covid is beaten down but not gone.

The higher vaccine coverage, the lower the COVID burden will be going forward. That's the bottom line.

[Bullbleep]

What should happen is that Vaccines should be made basically mandatory (even if we need the market to make that happen instead of overt government action because Americans are babies about that stuff).

That's how you prevent COVID from sticking around.

"Mandatory" for a vaccine isn't going to work if a simple recommendation to wear a mask in public ends up becoming a political flash point. Need to monetize getting the vaccine. A tax credit (not deduction) comes immediately to mind. If you receive the vaccine (both doses) and get entered into a certification of vaccination DB, you get a $500 (or something...) tax credit. If you're the dumb-s#!t, freedom-living, maskless type who refuses to get vaccinated, fine. That's your decision. No $$$ for you.

There's probably even some magic number where paying people to get vaccinated makes economic sense. Sort of like not charging for preventive care colonoscopies or mammograms turns out to make economic sense for health insurers. With a vaccine tax credit, the economic tipping point gets to not only factor in the health cost savings, but also the overall positive impact on the economy.

[HomoSapien]

However, there is one thing that has left me mystified over these past years, and it's that there seemed to be an overall lack of remorse (even a lack of interest) in all of those people who have died.

The ability to become numb to death is an indicator that our society/government/infrastructure is failing. I felt the same way about mass shootings. There are some things that as a society we should never accept as normal.

[Red8911]

What should happen is that Vaccines should be made basically mandatory (even if we need the market to make that happen instead of overt government action because Americans are babies about that stuff).

That's how you prevent COVID from sticking around.

"Mandatory" for a vaccine isn't going to work if a simple recommendation to wear a mask in public ends up becoming a political flash point. Need to monetize getting the vaccine. A tax credit (not deduction) comes immediately to mind. If you receive the vaccine (both doses) and get entered into a certification of vaccination DB, you get a $500 (or something...) tax credit. If you're the dumb-s#!t, freedom-living, maskless type who refuses to get vaccinated, fine. That's your decision. No $$$ for you.

There's probably even some magic number where paying people to get vaccinated makes economic sense. Sort of like not charging for preventive care colonoscopies or mammograms turns out to make economic sense for health insurers. With a vaccine tax credit, the economic tipping point gets to not only factor in the health cost savings, but also the overall positive impact on the economy.

Masks don’t do much unless you wear the better ones. They can make people feel better but in reality they won’t stop the virus if it’s airborne in a room. So many have gotten Covid even though they wear masks everywhere so your fooling yourself if you think a mask is the solution.

Vaccine is the only way to end this and go back to normal but a lot of people do not trust it and do not want to take it, at least not yet.

[Dresden]

What should happen is that Vaccines should be made basically mandatory (even if we need the market to make that happen instead of overt government action because Americans are babies about that stuff).

That's how you prevent COVID from sticking around.

"Mandatory" for a vaccine isn't going to work if a simple recommendation to wear a mask in public ends up becoming a political flash point. Need to monetize getting the vaccine. A tax credit (not deduction) comes immediately to mind. If you receive the vaccine (both doses) and get entered into a certification of vaccination DB, you get a $500 (or something...) tax credit. If you're the dumb-s#!t, freedom-living, maskless type who refuses to get vaccinated, fine. That's your decision. No $$$ for you.

There's probably even some magic number where paying people to get vaccinated makes economic sense. Sort of like not charging for preventive care colonoscopies or mammograms turns out to make economic sense for health insurers. With a vaccine tax credit, the economic tipping point gets to not only factor in the health cost savings, but also the overall positive impact on the economy.

Masks don’t do much unless you wear the better ones. They can make people feel better but in reality they won’t stop the virus if it’s airborne in a room. So many have gotten Covid even though they wear masks everywhere so your fooling yourself if you think a mask is the solution.

Vaccine is the only way to end this and go back to normal but a lot of people do not trust it and do not want to take it, at least not yet.

This isn't true. Masks do help.

[Red8911]

"Mandatory" for a vaccine isn't going to work if a simple recommendation to wear a mask in public ends up becoming a political flash point. Need to monetize getting the vaccine. A tax credit (not deduction) comes immediately to mind. If you receive the vaccine (both doses) and get entered into a certification of vaccination DB, you get a $500 (or something...) tax credit. If you're the dumb-s#!t, freedom-living, maskless type who refuses to get vaccinated, fine. That's your decision. No $$$ for you.

There's probably even some magic number where paying people to get vaccinated makes economic sense. Sort of like not charging for preventive care colonoscopies or mammograms turns out to make economic sense for health insurers. With a vaccine tax credit, the economic tipping point gets to not only factor in the health cost savings, but also the overall positive impact on the economy.

Masks don’t do much unless you wear the better ones. They can make people feel better but in reality they won’t stop the virus if it’s airborne in a room. So many have gotten Covid even though they wear masks everywhere so your fooling yourself if you think a mask is the solution.

Vaccine is the only way to end this and go back to normal but a lot of people do not trust it and do not want to take it, at least not yet.

This isn't true. Masks do help.

If it helps you sleep at night cool.Regardless if they work or not we’ve all been wearing them anyway. Funny thing is the media will try to spin it that Biden will now order a “mask mandate” but in reality we’ve all been wearing masks for a while now and whoever doesn’t gets thrown out of places.

We already can’t go to any building or business without a mask. Biden thinks that if he puts this mandate that he will look like he’s doing something different than what’s already been done in order to get credit.

Same with the vaccine, Biden and the left think they are better by saying they will give out more vaccines than before. As if Trump wasn’t the one who pushed for the vaccine in the first place and everyone was calling him crazy when he was saying that the vaccine is coming out soon. Now apparently he didn’t want to give them out too much but Biden is the smart one and the savior lol. Please.

[moorhosj]

Funny thing is the media will try to spin it that Biden will now order a “mask mandate” but in reality we’ve all been wearing masks for a while now and whoever doesn’t gets thrown out of places.

We already can’t go to any building or business without a mask. Biden thinks that if he puts this mandate that he will look like he’s doing something different than what’s already been done in order to get credit.

This is demonstrably false. 13 states do not have a mask mandate, including big states like Arizona, Florida, and Georgia. https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2020/states-mask-mandates-coronavirus.html. Then there are the counties. Like Texas, which does have a mandate, but has 18 exempted counties.

Where do you get your information?

[samwana]

What should happen is that Vaccines should be made basically mandatory (even if we need the market to make that happen instead of overt government action because Americans are babies about that stuff).

That's how you prevent COVID from sticking around.

"Mandatory" for a vaccine isn't going to work if a simple recommendation to wear a mask in public ends up becoming a political flash point. Need to monetize getting the vaccine. A tax credit (not deduction) comes immediately to mind. If you receive the vaccine (both doses) and get entered into a certification of vaccination DB, you get a $500 (or something...) tax credit. If you're the dumb-s#!t, freedom-living, maskless type who refuses to get vaccinated, fine. That's your decision. No $$$ for you.

There's probably even some magic number where paying people to get vaccinated makes economic sense. Sort of like not charging for preventive care colonoscopies or mammograms turns out to make economic sense for health insurers. With a vaccine tax credit, the economic tipping point gets to not only factor in the health cost savings, but also the overall positive impact on the economy.

If you need to pay people to get a vaccine, how scared are they to get sick and how eager are the to get a few bucks and take the risk of a vaccine.

I've never understood the logic of being save if you have gotten a vaccine only if someone else got the vaccine too. The principle of a vaccine is that you are safe from an illness if you take it. How is it important that someone else takes it. Or are you scared the vaccine doesn't protect you in the first place?

And if you can still have it and even spread it despite getting the vaccine is even more absurd to take it. Take responsibility for your own health with enough vitamins and minerals and take care of your body and soul.

And you can see here in Germany that a lockdown doesn't do anything. The parts of Germany with the toughest lockdown and mask wearing rules are the parts with the most positive tests.

Vaccines should never be mandatory, ever.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using RealGM mobile app

[Dez]

What should happen is that Vaccines should be made basically mandatory (even if we need the market to make that happen instead of overt government action because Americans are babies about that stuff).

That's how you prevent COVID from sticking around.

"Mandatory" for a vaccine isn't going to work if a simple recommendation to wear a mask in public ends up becoming a political flash point. Need to monetize getting the vaccine. A tax credit (not deduction) comes immediately to mind. If you receive the vaccine (both doses) and get entered into a certification of vaccination DB, you get a $500 (or something...) tax credit. If you're the dumb-s#!t, freedom-living, maskless type who refuses to get vaccinated, fine. That's your decision. No $$$ for you.

There's probably even some magic number where paying people to get vaccinated makes economic sense. Sort of like not charging for preventive care colonoscopies or mammograms turns out to make economic sense for health insurers. With a vaccine tax credit, the economic tipping point gets to not only factor in the health cost savings, but also the overall positive impact on the economy.

If you need to pay people to get a vaccine, how scared are they to get sick and how eager are the to get a few bucks and take the risk of a vaccine.

I've never understood the logic of being save if you have gotten a vaccine only if someone else got the vaccine too. The principle of a vaccine is that you are safe from an illness if you take it. How is it important that someone else takes it. Or are you scared the vaccine doesn't protect you in the first place?

And if you can still have it and even spread it despite getting the vaccine is even more absurd to take it. Take responsibility for your own health with enough vitamins and minerals and take care of your body and soul.

And you can see here in Germany that a lockdown doesn't do anything. The parts of Germany with the toughest lockdown and mask wearing rules are the parts with the most positive tests.

Vaccines should never be mandatory, ever.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using RealGM mobile app

Then you aren't locked down.

[Dresden]

What should happen is that Vaccines should be made basically mandatory (even if we need the market to make that happen instead of overt government action because Americans are babies about that stuff).

That's how you prevent COVID from sticking around.

"Mandatory" for a vaccine isn't going to work if a simple recommendation to wear a mask in public ends up becoming a political flash point. Need to monetize getting the vaccine. A tax credit (not deduction) comes immediately to mind. If you receive the vaccine (both doses) and get entered into a certification of vaccination DB, you get a $500 (or something...) tax credit. If you're the dumb-s#!t, freedom-living, maskless type who refuses to get vaccinated, fine. That's your decision. No $$$ for you.

There's probably even some magic number where paying people to get vaccinated makes economic sense. Sort of like not charging for preventive care colonoscopies or mammograms turns out to make economic sense for health insurers. With a vaccine tax credit, the economic tipping point gets to not only factor in the health cost savings, but also the overall positive impact on the economy.

If you need to pay people to get a vaccine, how scared are they to get sick and how eager are the to get a few bucks and take the risk of a vaccine.

I've never understood the logic of being save if you have gotten a vaccine only if someone else got the vaccine too. The principle of a vaccine is that you are safe from an illness if you take it. How is it important that someone else takes it. Or are you scared the vaccine doesn't protect you in the first place?

And if you can still have it and even spread it despite getting the vaccine is even more absurd to take it. Take responsibility for your own health with enough vitamins and minerals and take care of your body and soul.

And you can see here in Germany that a lockdown doesn't do anything. The parts of Germany with the toughest lockdown and mask wearing rules are the parts with the most positive tests.

Vaccines should never be mandatory, ever.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using RealGM mobile app

For one thing, people. not getting vaccinated means people will still be getting Covid, which is placing a heavy burden on the health care system, and ICU units in particular. What if you have a heart attack and need to be in the ICU, but there are no beds because they're all taken by people with Covid, because those people didn't want to get the vaccine. Maybe it should be that if you refuse the vaccine, you have lowest priority for getting a hospital bed, and as soon as someone else needs it, you get kicked out?

[Dresden]

Masks don’t do much unless you wear the better ones. They can make people feel better but in reality they won’t stop the virus if it’s airborne in a room. So many have gotten Covid even though they wear masks everywhere so your fooling yourself if you think a mask is the solution.

Vaccine is the only way to end this and go back to normal but a lot of people do not trust it and do not want to take it, at least not yet.

This isn't true. Masks do help.

If it helps you sleep at night cool.Regardless if they work or not we’ve all been wearing them anyway. Funny thing is the media will try to spin it that Biden will now order a “mask mandate” but in reality we’ve all been wearing masks for a while now and whoever doesn’t gets thrown out of places.

We already can’t go to any building or business without a mask. Biden thinks that if he puts this mandate that he will look like he’s doing something different than what’s already been done in order to get credit.

Same with the vaccine, Biden and the left think they are better by saying they will give out more vaccines than before. As if Trump wasn’t the one who pushed for the vaccine in the first place and everyone was calling him crazy when he was saying that the vaccine is coming out soon. Now apparently he didn’t want to give them out too much but Biden is the smart one and the savior lol. Please.

Trump allowed 400,000 Americans to die on his watch from Covid- the most of any country in the world. So hopefully, Biden WILL do things a little differently.

[CobyWhite0]

This isn't true. Masks do help.

If it helps you sleep at night cool.Regardless if they work or not we’ve all been wearing them anyway. Funny thing is the media will try to spin it that Biden will now order a “mask mandate” but in reality we’ve all been wearing masks for a while now and whoever doesn’t gets thrown out of places.

We already can’t go to any building or business without a mask. Biden thinks that if he puts this mandate that he will look like he’s doing something different than what’s already been done in order to get credit.

Same with the vaccine, Biden and the left think they are better by saying they will give out more vaccines than before. As if Trump wasn’t the one who pushed for the vaccine in the first place and everyone was calling him crazy when he was saying that the vaccine is coming out soon. Now apparently he didn’t want to give them out too much but Biden is the smart one and the savior lol. Please.

Trump allowed 400,000 Americans to die on his watch from Covid- the most of any country in the world. So hopefully, Biden WILL do things a little differently.

It's quite comical that Trumpsters are STILL denying science, and STILL acting like Trump did anything positive to help Americans deal with Covid.

It's still political to these folks, and I'd be willing to bet that there is a 1/1 correlation between COVID science deniers and people who think the election was stolen from Trump.

[dice]

Masks don’t do much unless you wear the better ones. They can make people feel better but in reality they won’t stop the virus if it’s airborne in a room. So many have gotten Covid even though they wear masks everywhere so your fooling yourself if you think a mask is the solution.

Vaccine is the only way to end this and go back to normal but a lot of people do not trust it and do not want to take it, at least not yet.

This isn't true. Masks do help.

If it helps you sleep at night cool.Regardless if they work or not we’ve all been wearing them anyway. Funny thing is the media will try to spin it that Biden will now order a “mask mandate”

that's not "spin." he literally did mandate masks in certain places that were not federally mandated to do so before. true that won't result in a lot more people wearing masks, though

but in reality we’ve all been wearing masks for a while now and whoever doesn’t gets thrown out of places.

again, in MOST states

Same with the vaccine, Biden and the left think they are better by saying they will give out more vaccines than before.

they are not just saying that, they're DOING it. they're taking concrete actions to get vaccines out quicker. the trump administration left with no plan in place to do so

As if Trump wasn’t the one who pushed for the vaccine in the first place

EVERYONE was pushing for the vaccine. any competent president would have done everything possible to make that happen as quickly as possible. and while trump wasn't a competent president on the whole, he fortunately did do the competent thing by pushing for vaccine development...in a pandemic. UNfortunately, he thoroughly botched the federal response in many other vital respects

the one predictable thing that happened was that once the readiness announcement came out shortly after the election, don jr. led the charge saying that there was a timing conspiracy. which, of course, ironically would only work as some sort of devious plan if people who were considering voting for trump thought he was lying about it being ready imminently

and everyone was calling him crazy when he was saying that the vaccine is coming out soon

in case you hadn't been paying attention for the last 5 years and beyond, trump routinely lies and grossly exaggerates. he didn't have any more of a goddamn clue about the progress of the science than anyone else did, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and again. and fortunately the scientists stepped up and shattered vaccine development records

Now apparently he didn’t want to give them out too much but Biden is the smart one and the savior lol. Please.

"lol", dr. demon sperm?

and yes, cloth masks work. just not as well as the medical grade ones. the only debate is the degree of effectiveness. first of all, there's just the common sense reality that particles won't spread as far if there's a barrier. then there's the massive social experiment that was the BLM marches. no super spreader events. whereas the sturgis bike rally alone spread COVID significantly through a number of states

[Michael Jackson]

"Mandatory" for a vaccine isn't going to work if a simple recommendation to wear a mask in public ends up becoming a political flash point. Need to monetize getting the vaccine. A tax credit (not deduction) comes immediately to mind. If you receive the vaccine (both doses) and get entered into a certification of vaccination DB, you get a $500 (or something...) tax credit. If you're the dumb-s#!t, freedom-living, maskless type who refuses to get vaccinated, fine. That's your decision. No $$$ for you.

There's probably even some magic number where paying people to get vaccinated makes economic sense. Sort of like not charging for preventive care colonoscopies or mammograms turns out to make economic sense for health insurers. With a vaccine tax credit, the economic tipping point gets to not only factor in the health cost savings, but also the overall positive impact on the economy.

Masks don’t do much unless you wear the better ones. They can make people feel better but in reality they won’t stop the virus if it’s airborne in a room. So many have gotten Covid even though they wear masks everywhere so your fooling yourself if you think a mask is the solution.

Vaccine is the only way to end this and go back to normal but a lot of people do not trust it and do not want to take it, at least not yet.

This isn't true. Masks do help.

They absolutely do help. Are they 100% effective, no and no one has claimed they are. Well I am sure someone has claimed that but you get the idea. It becomes a petty argument, because they are not 100% effective then they must be useless and you have stolen everyone’s rights. Everything has grey area in it and people want to argue the absolutes, which just isn’t productive or realistic. If nothing else, masks slow down the spread of all aerosol illnesses. I don’t want the Vid, I also don’t want the flu, a common cold or smelling smokers breathe lol. If masks didn’t work at all doctors would have abandoned them a century ago.

[Just_Bullz]

Don't blame the government for its sub-par handling of the pandemic, everyone has a part to play. Adults and all.

Self discipline in hygiene, sacrifice to avoid meeting your love ones, all the little things add up.

The issue here imho is ignorance.

[Chi town]

What does everyone think about Bezos and Amazon now stepping up to the plate to get the vaccine out much quicker?

Also Spain is now enforcing N95 masks. Cloth masks no longer acceptable.

[Dresden]

Don't blame the government for its sub-par handling of the pandemic, everyone has a part to play. Adults and all.

Self discipline in hygiene, sacrifice to avoid meeting your love ones, all the little things add up.

The issue here imho is ignorance.

It is absolutely the govt's part to provide leadership in a national crisis. When Britain was being bombed in WWII, it's govt. created air raid stations, and developed a system so people would know where and when to go. Sure, anyone with a brain could have figured out it would be better to go into an underground shelter of some sort when the bombs are dropping. But the govt's. actions saved countless lives in Britain.

Whereas in the US, Trump and other leaders were always sending mixed messages about wearing masks, and Trump himself often did not. That sends a terrible message, that maybe it's not such a big deal. Then he proposed several "cures" to the disease that turned out to be false, and without valid scientific evidence.

He did not use the power of the federal govt to manufacture the needed PPE, which cost many health care workers their lives, sadly. And he did not coordinate the national response in order to help states get the PPE and other equipment they needed. In some cases, states were bidding against each other and against the federal govt for the same equipment.

Trump also never developed a national plan for travel restrictions within the country, or guidelines for communities on whether or not they should lockdown.

It was a terrible response by the federal govt., and it was mainly driven by Donald Trump's desire to hide the seriousness of the pandemic because he thought it would affect his re-election chances.

[dice]

Don't blame the government for its sub-par handling of the pandemic, everyone has a part to play. Adults and all.

Self discipline in hygiene, sacrifice to avoid meeting your love ones, all the little things add up.

The issue here imho is ignorance.

It is absolutely the govt's part to provide leadership in a national crisis. When Britain was being bombed in WWII, it's govt. created air raid stations, and developed a system so people would know where and when to go. Sure, anyone with a brain could have figured out it would be better to go into an underground shelter of some sort when the bombs are dropping. But the govt's. actions saved countless lives in Britain.

Whereas in the US, Trump and other leaders were always sending mixed messages about wearing masks, and Trump himself often did not. That sends a terrible message, that maybe it's not such a big deal. Then he proposed several "cures" to the disease that turned out to be false, and without valid scientific evidence.

He did not use the power of the federal govt to manufacture the needed PPE, which cost many health care workers their lives, sadly. And he did not coordinate the national response in order to help states get the PPE and other equipment they needed. In some cases, states were bidding against each other and against the federal govt for the same equipment.

Trump also never developed a national plan for travel restrictions within the country, or guidelines for communities on whether or not they should lockdown.

It was a terrible response by the federal govt., and it was mainly driven by Donald Trump's desire to hide the seriousness of the pandemic because he thought it would affect his re-election chances.

i think it's pretty clear at this point that there are many, many people whose beliefs and actions are heavily influenced by their leaders

[PlayerUp]

What does everyone think about Bezos and Amazon now stepping up to the plate to get the vaccine out much quicker?

Why couldn't they help out sooner is my question? That said, anytime a big tech company can help out of course it's a major plus.