2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

[MrFortune3]

Warriors would trade down in this case for sure. Teams will want to move up for LaMelo. I don't see the Hornets taking Deni over Wiseman.

I still think the draft order will go:

1. Edwards
2. LaMelo
3. Wiseman

In the end with the Warriors trading down.

I simply cannot see a situation where Charlote passes on Wiseman. He fits them perfectly. They need a rim protecting big with offensive potential and size. They already have guards in Rozier and Graham. They need size to add to Bridges and Washington.

The Ringer nailed the scenario, one where Ball or Edwards is still on the board. Charlotte has to be desperate for a star.

I don't see Edwards not going #1. So that's not a legit scenario to me. Charlotte is not taking a PG with Graham and Rozier already on the roster, starting and either starring or making big money. Given his lack of shooting ability, Ball is almost exclusively a PG and not sliding over to SG and probably not playing the 3 either.
So I would have to see it to believe it. I could see them taking Deni but given Kupchak's history, I would venture a guess that Wiseman would be the guy they'd be high on.

[MrFortune3]

Just what this team needs. Another big man in an era built on guard and SF play.

Calm down sir. Wiseman at worst would be a defense anchor who score a few easy baskets in the paint area.
If AK and co are really serious about development you're talking about a top 2 center in the NBA with a solid offensive game and likely to expand his range if he reaches his potential.

We also just saw in the Rockets vs Lakers series that you still need size in today's NBA.

The NBA is about building a “big three”. A defensive anchor who can score a few easy buckets just aren’t valuable in today’s NBA. If Wiseman was a special passer like Jokic or had offensive ability like AD, I would consider drafting him. He didn’t show me anything in college besides dominating a bunch of undersized guys that have no NBA future. He didn’t dominate them off the dribble or with a jump shot either. It was just being taller and more athletic than them which never translates. Look at guys like Nerlens Noel, Willie Caulie-Stein, JaVale McGee, etc. Being tall and quick isn’t good enough.

What did he show you that made you so impressed? Was there a specific game?

Following his HS career through recruiting, he was to me as expected in the 3 games he played in. He has a high ceiling and loads of potential. I would have liked to have seen a longer resume in college for him but I didn't see anything that left me with questions about his game.

Noel, Cauley-Stein and McGee never made any sense to me as high draft picks. I follow college recruiting heavily and it was baffling to me how they were viewed as prospects.

[StunnerKO]

If Wiseman at 4 I’m
Trading that pick

[Chi town]

If we pick Deni or Hayes they would become the best passers on our team from day one.

[BullsFTW]

It should be Hayes instead of Wiseman.

[MrFortune3]

It should be Hayes instead of Wiseman.

Would have no issue with Hayes as the pick but you would need a HC with savvy on offense to make that work.
Gives you a 3 guard starting lineup that would lack size. Granted Hayes would likely start out on the bench with Porter as the starter at the 3.

[PlayerUp]

Just what this team needs. Another big man in an era built on guard and SF play.

Calm down sir. Wiseman at worst would be a defense anchor who score a few easy baskets in the paint area.
If AK and co are really serious about development you're talking about a top 2 center in the NBA with a solid offensive game and likely to expand his range if he reaches his potential.

We also just saw in the Rockets vs Lakers series that you still need size in today's NBA.

The NBA is about building a “big three”. A defensive anchor who can score a few easy buckets just aren’t valuable in today’s NBA. If Wiseman was a special passer like Jokic or had offensive ability like AD, I would consider drafting him. He didn’t show me anything in college besides dominating a bunch of undersized guys that have no NBA future. He didn’t dominate them off the dribble or with a jump shot either. It was just being taller and more athletic than them which never translates. Look at guys like Nerlens Noel, Willie Caulie-Stein, JaVale McGee, etc. Being tall and quick isn’t good enough.

What did he show you that made you so impressed? Was there a specific game?

We already have a defensive anchor in Wendell Carter, we just need to heavily develop and maximize him. As noted recently, our new GM Marc Eversley is high on Wendell Carter and Carter has not had a proper system to excel in yet which may change with our new coaching and FO direction. Him and Wiseman wouldn't co-exist.

I don't really see anything unique in Wiseman game. Uniqueness to me is the absolute #1 factor in a prospect as that becomes your main skill in the NBA. After thinking about this more, I would look to trade down personally if some event has Wiseman dropping to #4.

[PlayerUp]

It should be Hayes instead of Wiseman.

If Deni is gone, I agree I think we go Hayes next.

However another scenario that could happen is during predraft workouts a certain prospect has shown great improvement in 6+ months and could jump up. Lets say as an example Isaac Okoro has all of a sudden developed a very consistent 3PT shot and showing complete improvement offensively. These scenarios are very possible in this specific draft since there has been such a large gap between when we last saw them to the time we are going to be draft a prospect in addition to that this specific draft has so many undeveloped prospects.

[Chicagoat]

It should be Hayes instead of Wiseman.

If Deni is gone, I agree I think we go Hayes next.

However another scenario that could happen is during predraft workouts a certain prospect has shown great improvement in 6+ months and could jump up. Lets say as an example Isaac Okoro has all of a sudden developed a 3PT shot and showing complete improvement offensively. These scenarios are possible in this specific draft since there has been such a large gap between when we last saw them to the time we are going to be draft a prospect.

Usually a late riser during the pre draft process could be fools gold with such a small sample size in private workouts and recency bias.


But with such a big break. It will be interesting to see who was working the hardest during the long break. I like Okoro but we have to be careful with empty gym workouts.

Mo Bamba looked like the next KP in an empty gym. But we shouldn't be too wary about private workout and its impact. Otherwise we might put too little stock on another Mitchell type of private workout that wowed AK and Eversley.

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[PlayerUp]

It should be Hayes instead of Wiseman.

If Deni is gone, I agree I think we go Hayes next.

However another scenario that could happen is during predraft workouts a certain prospect has shown great improvement in 6+ months and could jump up. Lets say as an example Isaac Okoro has all of a sudden developed a 3PT shot and showing complete improvement offensively. These scenarios are possible in this specific draft since there has been such a large gap between when we last saw them to the time we are going to be draft a prospect.

Usually a late riser during the pre draft process could be fools gold with such a small sample size in private workouts and recency bias.


But with such a big break. It will be interesting to see who was working the hardest during the long break. I like Okoro but we have to be careful with empty gym workouts.

Mo Bamba looked like the next KP in an empty gym. But we shouldn't be too wary about private workout and its impact. Otherwise we might put too little stock on another Mitchell type of private workout that wowed AK and Eversley.

Sent from my SM-A715F using RealGM mobile app

Agree completely. Adding to that if a player has not shown any improvement in a 6+ month span they have been off, that is a terribly bad sign. Prospects like Onyeka Okongwu, Killian Hayes, James Wiseman, Isaac Okoro, Patrick Williams, Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton, Poku, Jaden McDaniels and a couple others are just some prospects I could see heavily rise and fall in this draft.

Lets take for example James Wiseman. If he comes in slightly out of shape, no real changes to the last time we saw him, he may actually drop completely out of the Top 3 and bounce to the mid to late lottery.

As for Deni, look how much he improved from Euroleague to Israel League. Everything in his game improved over that short span which is why many are high on Deni now because of his much improved recent play (last played in July). Some of these prospects could follow a similar path during predraft workouts.

[MrFortune3]

Calm down sir. Wiseman at worst would be a defense anchor who score a few easy baskets in the paint area.
If AK and co are really serious about development you're talking about a top 2 center in the NBA with a solid offensive game and likely to expand his range if he reaches his potential.

We also just saw in the Rockets vs Lakers series that you still need size in today's NBA.

The NBA is about building a “big three”. A defensive anchor who can score a few easy buckets just aren’t valuable in today’s NBA. If Wiseman was a special passer like Jokic or had offensive ability like AD, I would consider drafting him. He didn’t show me anything in college besides dominating a bunch of undersized guys that have no NBA future. He didn’t dominate them off the dribble or with a jump shot either. It was just being taller and more athletic than them which never translates. Look at guys like Nerlens Noel, Willie Caulie-Stein, JaVale McGee, etc. Being tall and quick isn’t good enough.

What did he show you that made you so impressed? Was there a specific game?

We already have a defensive anchor in Wendell Carter, we just need to heavily develop and maximize him. As noted recently, our new GM Marc Eversley is high on Wendell Carter and Carter has not had a proper system to excel in yet which may change with our new coaching and FO direction. Him and Wiseman wouldn't co-exist.

I don't really see anything unique in Wiseman game. Uniqueness to me is the absolute #1 factor in a prospect as that becomes your main skill in the NBA. After thinking about this more, I would look to trade down personally if some event has Wiseman dropping to #4.

I think he and WCJ and he and Lauri can co-exist just fine. WCJ has a lot of potential in his offensive game that has not been fully explored yet. He is not a finished produuct.

[PlayerUp]

The NBA is about building a “big three”. A defensive anchor who can score a few easy buckets just aren’t valuable in today’s NBA. If Wiseman was a special passer like Jokic or had offensive ability like AD, I would consider drafting him. He didn’t show me anything in college besides dominating a bunch of undersized guys that have no NBA future. He didn’t dominate them off the dribble or with a jump shot either. It was just being taller and more athletic than them which never translates. Look at guys like Nerlens Noel, Willie Caulie-Stein, JaVale McGee, etc. Being tall and quick isn’t good enough.

What did he show you that made you so impressed? Was there a specific game?

We already have a defensive anchor in Wendell Carter, we just need to heavily develop and maximize him. As noted recently, our new GM Marc Eversley is high on Wendell Carter and Carter has not had a proper system to excel in yet which may change with our new coaching and FO direction. Him and Wiseman wouldn't co-exist.

I don't really see anything unique in Wiseman game. Uniqueness to me is the absolute #1 factor in a prospect as that becomes your main skill in the NBA. After thinking about this more, I would look to trade down personally if some event has Wiseman dropping to #4.

I think he and WCJ and he and Lauri can co-exist just fine. WCJ has a lot of potential in his offensive game that has not been fully explored yet. He is not a finished produuct.

Wendell Carter ranked #2 in the entire NBA among players under 20 in Defensive RPM this season. He ranked #26 overall. That's quite impressive. We keep talking about defensive anchors. Wendell is our defensive anchor. We don't need to look elsewhere. We need to further develop his game especially on offense.

As for Lauri, it's difficult to tell his future. He has barely improved since entering the NBA though he has shown some defensive improvement. It could be coaching reasons but if he has another season where he regresses which could happen I think it's pretty clear he is not going to be the player everyone had expected him to be. In that case, he may not be worth keeping at the pricetag he could ask for during the 2021 offseason. If AK opts to trade Lauri which he may do this offseason, I would be perfectly okay with that.

[Leslie Forman]

I am obviously not a big Wiseman guy but with how terrible this draft is I can understand going with him at 4 if he wows you in workouts and you think there's actually something more than just some Clint Capela-type in him. But if you do that, you better be considering him as a building block and trading Carter and Markkanen for wings/guards.

Even freaking Simmons/Horford/Embiid doesn't work. Davis/Cousins didn't really even work. Wasting a #7, #7, and then a #4 pick on three straight low-skill center prospects is absolutely idiotic. You're basically trying to turn yourselves into the homeless man's Sixers.

[Charlesareed]

I say draft Killian Hayes and Jaden McDaniels

I wonder if coby white and Hayes can play together in the backcourt I’d trade zach & lauri ASAP try flip zach to Charlotte for the #3 pick to see if the bite trade lauri to phx he went to college in Arizona he’ll be at home and fits next to ayton whom also played at Arizona

[CjayC]

Ringers new mock has Wiseman at # 4 to the Bulls.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/9/14/21435542/nba-mock-draft

If that is the case who probably gets moved Lari (contract), Carter (because of fit) or Gafford (lack of deal / value of Lari & Carter) ?

There's no scenario where I'm taking Wiseman #4 over Avdija, or Hayes unless they plan on moving Carter Jr for some reason unbeknownst to everybody.

The ceiling is there, but I'm not a fan of taking somebody that high, with that little of game film. Especially a big.

[mack2354]

Calm down sir. Wiseman at worst would be a defense anchor who score a few easy baskets in the paint area.
If AK and co are really serious about development you're talking about a top 2 center in the NBA with a solid offensive game and likely to expand his range if he reaches his potential.

We also just saw in the Rockets vs Lakers series that you still need size in today's NBA.

The NBA is about building a “big three”. A defensive anchor who can score a few easy buckets just aren’t valuable in today’s NBA. If Wiseman was a special passer like Jokic or had offensive ability like AD, I would consider drafting him. He didn’t show me anything in college besides dominating a bunch of undersized guys that have no NBA future. He didn’t dominate them off the dribble or with a jump shot either. It was just being taller and more athletic than them which never translates. Look at guys like Nerlens Noel, Willie Caulie-Stein, JaVale McGee, etc. Being tall and quick isn’t good enough.

What did he show you that made you so impressed? Was there a specific game?

Following his HS career through recruiting, he was to me as expected in the 3 games he played in. He has a high ceiling and loads of potential. I would have liked to have seen a longer resume in college for him but I didn't see anything that left me with questions about his game.

Noel, Cauley-Stein and McGee never made any sense to me as high draft picks. I follow college recruiting heavily and it was baffling to me how they were viewed as prospects.

Serious question because I'm not a recruit. What does Wiseman do that is significantly better than Gafford? Their games, size, and athleticism all look pretty similar to me. Wiseman looks more fluid and coordinated but I'm not seeing a large enough improvement from one to the other that is worth the #4 pick.

[MrFortune3]

We already have a defensive anchor in Wendell Carter, we just need to heavily develop and maximize him. As noted recently, our new GM Marc Eversley is high on Wendell Carter and Carter has not had a proper system to excel in yet which may change with our new coaching and FO direction. Him and Wiseman wouldn't co-exist.

I don't really see anything unique in Wiseman game. Uniqueness to me is the absolute #1 factor in a prospect as that becomes your main skill in the NBA. After thinking about this more, I would look to trade down personally if some event has Wiseman dropping to #4.

I think he and WCJ and he and Lauri can co-exist just fine. WCJ has a lot of potential in his offensive game that has not been fully explored yet. He is not a finished produuct.

Wendell Carter ranked #2 in the entire NBA among players under 20 in Defensive RPM this season. He ranked #26 overall. That's quite impressive. We keep talking about defensive anchors. Wendell is our defensive anchor. We don't need to look elsewhere. We need to further develop his game especially on offense.

As for Lauri, it's difficult to tell his future. He has barely improved since entering the NBA though he has shown some defensive improvement. It could be coaching reasons but if he has another season where he regresses which could happen I think it's pretty clear he is not going to be the player everyone had expected him to be. In that case, he may not be worth keeping at the pricetag he could ask for during the 2021 offseason. If AK opts to trade Lauri which he may do this offseason, I would be perfectly okay with that.

I like WCJ a lot. But at either SF or C/PF you're going to need another person who can help set the table on defense. Zach, Coby and Lauri are not exactly great on defense. The team defense will improve as the new coach comes in and puts his system in place.

[wonderboy2]

I think he and WCJ and he and Lauri can co-exist just fine. WCJ has a lot of potential in his offensive game that has not been fully explored yet. He is not a finished produuct.

Wendell Carter ranked #2 in the entire NBA among players under 20 in Defensive RPM this season. He ranked #26 overall. That's quite impressive. We keep talking about defensive anchors. Wendell is our defensive anchor. We don't need to look elsewhere. We need to further develop his game especially on offense.

As for Lauri, it's difficult to tell his future. He has barely improved since entering the NBA though he has shown some defensive improvement. It could be coaching reasons but if he has another season where he regresses which could happen I think it's pretty clear he is not going to be the player everyone had expected him to be. In that case, he may not be worth keeping at the pricetag he could ask for during the 2021 offseason. If AK opts to trade Lauri which he may do this offseason, I would be perfectly okay with that.

I like WCJ a lot. But at either SF or C/PF you're going to need another person who can help set the table on defense. Zach, Coby and Lauri are not exactly great on defense. The team defense will improve as the new coach comes in and puts his system in place.

Honestly I would say Coby is above average as a defender which is good considering he was a rookie. I remember he put the clamps on Devante Graham. Lavine on ball defense is good. Luari is a mystery to me because he actually did a good job defending the perimeter his first 2 years but fell off big time last season.

[MrFortune3]

The NBA is about building a “big three”. A defensive anchor who can score a few easy buckets just aren’t valuable in today’s NBA. If Wiseman was a special passer like Jokic or had offensive ability like AD, I would consider drafting him. He didn’t show me anything in college besides dominating a bunch of undersized guys that have no NBA future. He didn’t dominate them off the dribble or with a jump shot either. It was just being taller and more athletic than them which never translates. Look at guys like Nerlens Noel, Willie Caulie-Stein, JaVale McGee, etc. Being tall and quick isn’t good enough.

What did he show you that made you so impressed? Was there a specific game?

Following his HS career through recruiting, he was to me as expected in the 3 games he played in. He has a high ceiling and loads of potential. I would have liked to have seen a longer resume in college for him but I didn't see anything that left me with questions about his game.

Noel, Cauley-Stein and McGee never made any sense to me as high draft picks. I follow college recruiting heavily and it was baffling to me how they were viewed as prospects.

Serious question because I'm not a recruit. What does Wiseman do that is significantly better than Gafford? Their games, size, and athleticism all look pretty similar to me. Wiseman looks more fluid and coordinated but I'm not seeing a large enough improvement from one to the other that is worth the #4 pick.

Gafford was not nearly the prospect that Wiseman was(He's actually the 6th best prospect to ever commit to Arkansas. Bobby Portis is considered to be the top one that actually played for the Razorbacks) as evidenced not only their respective draft stocks but also their rankings in their HS careers.
His offensive game is limited to lobs and dunks, not going to work himself into having a great jumper or expanding his range.
Gafford is and always has been a rebound, block shot and dunk player. That's about all he's going to become which is not a bad thing at all. High energy and rebounding with shot blocking ability is a solid NBA player once they figure out their role.

Wiseman is a guy with a soft touch around the rim, a developing jumper and NBA ready defensive game.
He needs to add size and refine his offensive skill set but the question with him isn't whether he can score the basketball, it's will he be able to add to his arsenal.
You get the rim running, shot blocking and rebounding ability that you want in a modern big but he is nimble and has a great feel for the game on defense.

He's still growing into his frame and once you get him in the NBA at his final playing weight you are looking at a potential 23-11 player with a better than solid offensive game and a defensive juggernaut.

He and Gafford are not similar, that's like saying Harold Miner was comparable to Michael Jordan because he dunked similarly.
If Wiseman had played the full season, there would be no debate on who the top prospect is in this draft.

[MrFortune3]

Wendell Carter ranked #2 in the entire NBA among players under 20 in Defensive RPM this season. He ranked #26 overall. That's quite impressive. We keep talking about defensive anchors. Wendell is our defensive anchor. We don't need to look elsewhere. We need to further develop his game especially on offense.

As for Lauri, it's difficult to tell his future. He has barely improved since entering the NBA though he has shown some defensive improvement. It could be coaching reasons but if he has another season where he regresses which could happen I think it's pretty clear he is not going to be the player everyone had expected him to be. In that case, he may not be worth keeping at the pricetag he could ask for during the 2021 offseason. If AK opts to trade Lauri which he may do this offseason, I would be perfectly okay with that.

I like WCJ a lot. But at either SF or C/PF you're going to need another person who can help set the table on defense. Zach, Coby and Lauri are not exactly great on defense. The team defense will improve as the new coach comes in and puts his system in place.

Honestly I would say Coby is above average as a defender which is good considering he was a rookie. I remember he put the clamps on Devante Graham. Lavine on ball defense is good. Luari is a mystery to me because he actually did a good job defending the perimeter his first 2 years but fell off big time last season.

I'm not saying they are terrible defenders, I'm saying that you need someone else who can defend well and help set the tone in that starting lineup.
That's why I am extremely high on Deni and Wiseman. I think those 2 provide the most potential defensive and play making impact that the Bulls can land at #4.