Is Dalen Terry an NBA level player?

[GoBlue72391]

Dare I say that shot is looking a lot better

Read on Twitter

yeah. it looks like he's now 21 year away (born again) from being a good shooter. lets pray.

I'm sorry to be that guy... but is that even Terry? It doesn't look like him at all.

It's Talen Derry.

[sco]

Dare I say that shot is looking a lot better

Read on Twitter

yeah. it looks like he's now 21 year away (born again) from being a good shooter. lets pray.

I'm sorry to be that guy... but is that even Terry? It doesn't look like him at all.

If it he hired someone to shoot for him, maybe he can do that for him during games

[League Circles]

Well, we'll get to see him in preseason still, but knowing what you know now about the roster and assume it's set for the moment, should the Bulls pick up his 5.4 million dollar 4th year team option?

They have to decide before this season starts, in October I think.

I say HELL no. But, that could be a distraction cause it's pretty rare for a guy to be rejected by his team and then compete on it for a year, but whatever. I don't think he's worth 4 mil more than a minimum roster hold in cap space next summer.

So then the question is, if we decline his 4th year option, and no team will take him into cap space and we can't trade him, should we release him entirely before this season to avoid a bad situation with him moping on the bench?

[Michael Jackson]

Well, we'll get to see him in preseason still, but knowing what you know now about the roster and assume it's set for the moment, should the Bulls pick up his 5.4 million dollar 4th year team option?

They have to decide before this season starts, in October I think.

I say HELL no. But, that could be a distraction cause it's pretty rare for a guy to be rejected by his team and then compete on it for a year, but whatever. I don't think he's worth 4 mil more than a minimum roster hold in cap space next summer.

So then the question is, if we decline his 4th year option, and no team will take him into cap space and we can't trade him, should we release him entirely before this season to avoid a bad situation with him moping on the bench?

He is too giddey to mope. Oh wait maybe that is Josh. Still he really doesn’t seem to be that guy.

[MGB8]

No. The marginal cost is minor.

Honesty, this kind of cr@p annoys me. We don’t see the young guys in practice. Until they get some extended, quality burn, we don’t know if they have the chance to be good or not, and how good the odds are. Heck, Coby White looked like a bust for a bit. Pat Williams started last year looking like less than an NBA player, but by mid year he was looking like an MLE player.

Lauri when he was here looked like a middling player, lacking aggression, mental toughness, grit, and defense (though the defense did flash a bit the last quarter season that he was here). Now look. Max Strus was garbage. Now look. Gafford was hopelessly lost. Kris Dunn was hopeless, too.

All this joy in disparaging kids you literally know Jack about - in terms of who they are as people, their drive, how much they are picking up, their overall potential. Yeah, we could see that Terry’s shot is pretty far from where it needed to be. His handle needed work, and so does his general bball IQ. But until we see where he is at this season, we can’t form a serious judgment about his long term prospects.

Take a look a Jimmy Butler’s stats his first couple of seasons. I still remember people excoriating me for the opinion that he could produce 75% of what Deng could at a lesser cost… until he turned out to be twice the player that Deng was…

Meanwhile, keyboard warriors throw insults at young men who, yeah, maybe aren’t good enough to spend serious team funds on, may not even be good enough to play in the NBA, but who are 1,000,000 the basketball player than the person typing from their mother’s basement….

[step]

Well, we'll get to see him in preseason still, but knowing what you know now about the roster and assume it's set for the moment, should the Bulls pick up his 5.4 million dollar 4th year team option?

They have to decide before this season starts, in October I think.

I say HELL no. But, that could be a distraction cause it's pretty rare for a guy to be rejected by his team and then compete on it for a year, but whatever. I don't think he's worth 4 mil more than a minimum roster hold in cap space next summer.

So then the question is, if we decline his 4th year option, and no team will take him into cap space and we can't trade him, should we release him entirely before this season to avoid a bad situation with him moping on the bench?

Spotrac has the deadline date as 10/31/24, so you may get a few games in as the season starts.

And no, I wouldn't pick it up either. He's been a miss and that's fine, lets move on.

We can use his space to help absorb a bad deal or two in possibly a Vuc trade or in the acquisition of a late first rounder in next years draft or later. And if he choses to mope, that's largely marginal as if he chooses that path it'll likely result in no playing time, thus shooting himself in the foot for any future deals.

And if he magically has a great season and we 'regret' not picking up that option, we still retain some rights (early bird from memory).

[Guru]

It's like bulls fans have selective memory or something.

It reminds me of that meme of the fat guy at the keyboard saying that a 10 is a 6 because they have pointy elbows.

Terry will be here, they will pick it up, the bulls have no interest in packaging players to trade players they see as useful to winning.

[sco]

Well, we'll get to see him in preseason still, but knowing what you know now about the roster and assume it's set for the moment, should the Bulls pick up his 5.4 million dollar 4th year team option?

They have to decide before this season starts, in October I think.

I say HELL no. But, that could be a distraction cause it's pretty rare for a guy to be rejected by his team and then compete on it for a year, but whatever. I don't think he's worth 4 mil more than a minimum roster hold in cap space next summer.

So then the question is, if we decline his 4th year option, and no team will take him into cap space and we can't trade him, should we release him entirely before this season to avoid a bad situation with him moping on the bench?

Spotrac has the deadline date as 10/31/24, so you may get a few games in as the season starts.

And no, I wouldn't pick it up either. He's been a miss and that's fine, lets move on.

We can use his space to help absorb a bad deal or two in possibly a Vuc trade or in the acquisition of a late first rounder in next years draft or later. And if he choses to mope, that's largely marginal as if he chooses that path it'll likely result in no playing time, thus shooting himself in the foot for any future deals.

And if he magically has a great season and we 'regret' not picking up that option, we still retain some rights (early bird from memory).

It isn't obvious what they'll do. On the one hand he's sucked and has been almost unplayable. He may be sitting behind a bunch of guys to get off the bench this season. On the other hand, he's been working on 3 ball and handle, which would be great. Also, it is possible, but unlikely, that we'll have a big need for his cap space next season to bring in a star, unless Zach and Vuc are gone (which is up in the air).

[ChiefILL53]

Dalen was just on Iman Shumpert's podcast. I watched the first half, pretty interesting to hear about his path leading up to being drafted. Again, I think he has tools, but we can't keep having picks waste away on the bench without giving them real burn, gotta find time to see what they can do. Same with Phillips. This goes back to AKME trying to rush the rebuilding process instead of taking time.

[drosestruts]

Let's not overthink things. We're all aware that it can easily take 4-6 years for a young player these days. We don't need the cap space like when Phoenix cut Jalen Smith.

We should absolutely pick up Terry's 4th year.

[League Circles]

No. The marginal cost is minor.

Honesty, this kind of cr@p annoys me. We don’t see the young guys in practice. Until they get some extended, quality burn, we don’t know if they have the chance to be good or not, and how good the odds are. Heck, Coby White looked like a bust for a bit. Pat Williams started last year looking like less than an NBA player, but by mid year he was looking like an MLE player.

Lauri when he was here looked like a middling player, lacking aggression, mental toughness, grit, and defense (though the defense did flash a bit the last quarter season that he was here). Now look. Max Strus was garbage. Now look. Gafford was hopelessly lost. Kris Dunn was hopeless, too.

All this joy in disparaging kids you literally know Jack about - in terms of who they are as people, their drive, how much they are picking up, their overall potential. Yeah, we could see that Terry’s shot is pretty far from where it needed to be. His handle needed work, and so does his general bball IQ. But until we see where he is at this season, we can’t form a serious judgment about his long term prospects.

Take a look a Jimmy Butler’s stats his first couple of seasons. I still remember people excoriating me for the opinion that he could produce 75% of what Deng could at a lesser cost… until he turned out to be twice the player that Deng was…

Meanwhile, keyboard warriors throw insults at young men who, yeah, maybe aren’t good enough to spend serious team funds on, may not even be good enough to play in the NBA, but who are 1,000,000 the basketball player than the person typing from their mother’s basement….

God forbid we discuss whether or not to pick up multi million dollar team options on 3rd string players that we have to imminently decide on.

I've never understood the notion that every player needs so many chances to evaluate. The goal isn't to be as fair and thorough as possible with players, it's to put together a winning roster. Dalen Terry at 5.4 million to quite likely be a 3rd string player in year 4 might prevent that. That 5.4 mil can instead be offered to a FA as first year salary on a 4 year deal which means roughly $20 million in opportunity cost. This is (one reason) why we can't have nice things.

[TheSuzerain]

I would decline it for sure. Good to free up the roster spot.

[Chi town]

His shot still sucks. Dips the ball way too low.

He should be making movements 3s effortlessly in an empty gym by now.

Only hope is he has put on weight and he becomes a force defensively that can hit a corner 3

[GoBlue72391]

If we're taking a step back as a team (I hesitate to call it rebuilding just yet) and we don't need the cap space, then yes, pick up his option.

[MGB8]

No. The marginal cost is minor.

Honesty, this kind of cr@p annoys me. We don’t see the young guys in practice. Until they get some extended, quality burn, we don’t know if they have the chance to be good or not, and how good the odds are. Heck, Coby White looked like a bust for a bit. Pat Williams started last year looking like less than an NBA player, but by mid year he was looking like an MLE player.

Lauri when he was here looked like a middling player, lacking aggression, mental toughness, grit, and defense (though the defense did flash a bit the last quarter season that he was here). Now look. Max Strus was garbage. Now look. Gafford was hopelessly lost. Kris Dunn was hopeless, too.

All this joy in disparaging kids you literally know Jack about - in terms of who they are as people, their drive, how much they are picking up, their overall potential. Yeah, we could see that Terry’s shot is pretty far from where it needed to be. His handle needed work, and so does his general bball IQ. But until we see where he is at this season, we can’t form a serious judgment about his long term prospects.

Take a look a Jimmy Butler’s stats his first couple of seasons. I still remember people excoriating me for the opinion that he could produce 75% of what Deng could at a lesser cost… until he turned out to be twice the player that Deng was…

Meanwhile, keyboard warriors throw insults at young men who, yeah, maybe aren’t good enough to spend serious team funds on, may not even be good enough to play in the NBA, but who are 1,000,000 the basketball player than the person typing from their mother’s basement….

God forbid we discuss whether or not to pick up multi million dollar team options on 3rd string players that we have to imminently decide on.

I've never understood the notion that every player needs so many chances to evaluate. The goal isn't to be as fair and thorough as possible with players, it's to put together a winning roster. Dalen Terry at 5.4 million to quite likely be a 3rd string player in year 4 might prevent that. That 5.4 mil can instead be offered to a FA as first year salary on a 4 year deal which means roughly $20 million in opportunity cost. This is (one reason) why we can't have nice things.

First, opportunity cost can’t be measured across 4 years. It’s the cap difference for the one year, unless that cap difference can be aggregated its other space for a larger FA. Which ain’t happening - Giddey cap hold or extension plus factoring in Pat’s 18M puts the Bulls pretty close to the cap for 2025 (assuming cap hold, something like 142M, so over projected cap). Your assertion regarding 20 M makes zero sense. When Terry expires, the cap room would be there and they could sign someone to a 3 year deal.

The opportunity cost is about 3 million… and the impact is less because the Bulls could only use exceptions and minimums being over the cap (or take in some salary in trades, but still far away from the LT so not a big deal). So it’s Terry vs. a minimum contract flier on likely another guy who hasn’t developed as hoped.

Second, the issue isn’t whether to pick up the option or not, but instead (1) the tone of the discussion regarding actual human beings, and (2) the lack of acknowledgement that with young players, who don’t get a lot of burn and are in the “development” part of their curve, we (a) don’t have near enough information for our opinions to approach anywhere close to certainty (because most of the info is from practices and such that we have no access to), and (b) the uncertainty factor is huge (so even if we have better information, for instance with Lauri or Pat, and think certain things from certain reasons, there is a very good chance that we are wrong, in either direction).

[League Circles]

No. The marginal cost is minor.

Honesty, this kind of cr@p annoys me. We don’t see the young guys in practice. Until they get some extended, quality burn, we don’t know if they have the chance to be good or not, and how good the odds are. Heck, Coby White looked like a bust for a bit. Pat Williams started last year looking like less than an NBA player, but by mid year he was looking like an MLE player.

Lauri when he was here looked like a middling player, lacking aggression, mental toughness, grit, and defense (though the defense did flash a bit the last quarter season that he was here). Now look. Max Strus was garbage. Now look. Gafford was hopelessly lost. Kris Dunn was hopeless, too.

All this joy in disparaging kids you literally know Jack about - in terms of who they are as people, their drive, how much they are picking up, their overall potential. Yeah, we could see that Terry’s shot is pretty far from where it needed to be. His handle needed work, and so does his general bball IQ. But until we see where he is at this season, we can’t form a serious judgment about his long term prospects.

Take a look a Jimmy Butler’s stats his first couple of seasons. I still remember people excoriating me for the opinion that he could produce 75% of what Deng could at a lesser cost… until he turned out to be twice the player that Deng was…

Meanwhile, keyboard warriors throw insults at young men who, yeah, maybe aren’t good enough to spend serious team funds on, may not even be good enough to play in the NBA, but who are 1,000,000 the basketball player than the person typing from their mother’s basement….

God forbid we discuss whether or not to pick up multi million dollar team options on 3rd string players that we have to imminently decide on.

I've never understood the notion that every player needs so many chances to evaluate. The goal isn't to be as fair and thorough as possible with players, it's to put together a winning roster. Dalen Terry at 5.4 million to quite likely be a 3rd string player in year 4 might prevent that. That 5.4 mil can instead be offered to a FA as first year salary on a 4 year deal which means roughly $20 million in opportunity cost. This is (one reason) why we can't have nice things.

First, opportunity cost can’t be measured across 4 years. It’s the cap difference for the one year, unless that cap difference can be aggregated its other space for a larger FA. Which ain’t happening - Giddey cap hold or extension plus factoring in Pat’s 18M puts the Bulls pretty close to the cap for 2025 (assuming cap hold, something like 142M, so over projected cap). Your assertion regarding 20 M makes zero sense. When Terry expires, the cap room would be there and they could sign someone to a 3 year deal.

The opportunity cost is about 3 million… and the impact is less because the Bulls could only use exceptions and minimums being over the cap (or take in some salary in trades, but still far away from the LT so not a big deal). So it’s Terry vs. a minimum contract flier on likely another guy who hasn’t developed as hoped.

Second, the issue isn’t whether to pick up the option or not, but instead (1) the tone of the discussion regarding actual human beings, and (2) the lack of acknowledgement that with young players, who don’t get a lot of burn and are in the “development” part of their curve, we (a) don’t have near enough information for our opinions to approach anywhere close to certainty (because most of the info is from practices and such that we have no access to), and (b) the uncertainty factor is huge (so even if we have better information, for instance with Lauri or Pat, and think certain things from certain reasons, there is a very good chance that we are wrong, in either direction).

A LOT can change cap wise for us over the next year. We have a bunch of players who MIGHT be traded as they aren't likely intended to be a big part of our long term future:

Zach
Vuc
Carter
Terry himself
Phillips

Not to mention other actual key pieces might get traded for a desirable player.

Yes we're very, very far from any certainty of evaluation on Dalen, but that's irrelevant, because we HAVE TO make the evaluation.

The 20 mil I mentioned is actually about 18.5 mil over 4 years. What that means is that if we maneuver our way into actual cap space next summer, the difference between keeping Terry on his 5.4 mil team option vs not having him under contract means being able to offer a free agent an additional 18.5 mil in guaranteed money (over a 4 year deal). That could obviously be the difference between getting any particular player or not.

I'm not trying to assess Dalen Terry as a person lol. He's a third string player who hasn't done anything meaningful yet and we need to decide very soon whether or not to pay him meaningful money.

[Jujuba69]

His shot still sucks. Dips the ball way too low.

He should be making movements 3s effortlessly in an empty gym by now.

Only hope is he has put on weight and he becomes a force defensively that can hit a corner 3

yeah, i was going to say that.

horrible shot form in a empty gym. Dalen is hopeless.

He's going to be out of the league in 2 years or less. abissal draft pick by AK.

[TheJordanRule]

His shot still sucks. Dips the ball way too low.

He should be making movements 3s effortlessly in an empty gym by now.

Only hope is he has put on weight and he becomes a force defensively that can hit a corner 3

yeah, i was going to say that.

horrible shot form in a empty gym. Dalen is hopeless.

He's going to be out of the league in 2 years or less. abissal draft pick by AK.

How sad that Dalen is an absolute mystery many years after we drafted him. But how can you say he's an abissal pick with any confidence?! We drafted Dalen based on his tools, to be our special young project and he's basically been MIA ever since. And of course he has been MIA because, if we don't count the season when Lonzo was healthy, the Big Three era has been worse than The GarPax era. We didn't have time for a teenage project like Dalen in that era, so it's no surprise that Dalen was riding pine and super raw. But why bother to draft Dalen at all if we weren't in a position to develop a teenage project? And now the Bulls front office has decided that Dalen shouldn't play in our summer league this year. What?! Is this how you develop draft picks?!

[sco]

Dalen was just on Iman Shumpert's podcast. I watched the first half, pretty interesting to hear about his path leading up to being drafted. Again, I think he has tools, but we can't keep having picks waste away on the bench without giving them real burn, gotta find time to see what they can do. Same with Phillips. This goes back to AKME trying to rush the rebuilding process instead of taking time.

It's a fair point. Sorta goes hand in hand with tanking. When you play more than say 1 young player in the line-up at a time, IMO, you are exponentially increasing the chances of losing. You also hinder their development because young guys f'up plays on offense and defense and make learning to play right harder for guys. Again, IMO, that's why young tanking teams have a hard time pulling out of their losing ways.

To be fair, this regime has played young guys a lot of minutes...just not the guys who have come in without decent all-around games. I do think both Terry and Phillips had opportunities to show progress last season to earn minutes. I think that Phillips was on his way to more minutes until he got injured. Terry definitely improved, but was sorely lacking on offense last season.

[sco]

God forbid we discuss whether or not to pick up multi million dollar team options on 3rd string players that we have to imminently decide on.

I've never understood the notion that every player needs so many chances to evaluate. The goal isn't to be as fair and thorough as possible with players, it's to put together a winning roster. Dalen Terry at 5.4 million to quite likely be a 3rd string player in year 4 might prevent that. That 5.4 mil can instead be offered to a FA as first year salary on a 4 year deal which means roughly $20 million in opportunity cost. This is (one reason) why we can't have nice things.

First, opportunity cost can’t be measured across 4 years. It’s the cap difference for the one year, unless that cap difference can be aggregated its other space for a larger FA. Which ain’t happening - Giddey cap hold or extension plus factoring in Pat’s 18M puts the Bulls pretty close to the cap for 2025 (assuming cap hold, something like 142M, so over projected cap). Your assertion regarding 20 M makes zero sense. When Terry expires, the cap room would be there and they could sign someone to a 3 year deal.

The opportunity cost is about 3 million… and the impact is less because the Bulls could only use exceptions and minimums being over the cap (or take in some salary in trades, but still far away from the LT so not a big deal). So it’s Terry vs. a minimum contract flier on likely another guy who hasn’t developed as hoped.

Second, the issue isn’t whether to pick up the option or not, but instead (1) the tone of the discussion regarding actual human beings, and (2) the lack of acknowledgement that with young players, who don’t get a lot of burn and are in the “development” part of their curve, we (a) don’t have near enough information for our opinions to approach anywhere close to certainty (because most of the info is from practices and such that we have no access to), and (b) the uncertainty factor is huge (so even if we have better information, for instance with Lauri or Pat, and think certain things from certain reasons, there is a very good chance that we are wrong, in either direction).

A LOT can change cap wise for us over the next year. We have a bunch of players who MIGHT be traded as they aren't likely intended to be a big part of our long term future:

Zach
Vuc
Carter
Terry himself
Phillips

Not to mention other actual key pieces might get traded for a desirable player.

Yes we're very, very far from any certainty of evaluation on Dalen, but that's irrelevant, because we HAVE TO make the evaluation.

The 20 mil I mentioned is actually about 18.5 mil over 4 years. What that means is that if we maneuver our way into actual cap space next summer, the difference between keeping Terry on his 5.4 mil team option vs not having him under contract means being able to offer a free agent an additional 18.5 mil in guaranteed money (over a 4 year deal). That could obviously be the difference between getting any particular player or not.

I'm not trying to assess Dalen Terry as a person lol. He's a third string player who hasn't done anything meaningful yet and we need to decide very soon whether or not to pay him meaningful money.

Ok, fair, but the "over 4 years" math makes the number seem larger than it is. Also, this team isn't going to make the upward turn until they sign a MAX talent, or likely two. That's likely not happening next season either, so the Terry option risk is pretty low in terms of opportunity cost.