Wiretap: Bulls Hope To Re-Sign Zach LaVine At $14M-$16M

[JimmyJammer]

Why should it?

Go get yourself the best offer available, and let's go from there.

I don't see why it would be complicated.

I believe that the main point of dispute that may see the negotiations go south is fairly simply,
Lavine and his agent have a far different assessment of his talents than that of the rest of the league,
including the Bulls.

Lavine''s "sticker shock" is coming soon. The MARKET dictates his VALUE, and not
him, his or agent, the Bulls and certainly not fans on boards . When the market decides what he is worth, he will stop squirming and reality will set in, and he will have to sign a lower than hoped for offer, somewhere and prove it. It's called reality.

There's always a QO and try again next year, healthy and unrestricted.

When players accept the qualifying offer, that usually results in bitterness on the part of the player and management. There are countless of examples I can get into, but I don't have the time. The Bulls need to make a good-faith offer and take it from there. Gary Harris is one player whose career stats look similar to Zach's, though he had a better year last season, and he signed a 4yr 84mil contract. Zach is 2 inches taller, with better athleticism and rebounding prowess. But Harris is a better defender. Harris has career 45%, 37%3pt career fgs and Zach has 44% and 37%3pt. So, expect Zach's contract to fall somewhere in that same range.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I think what it all comes down to is that the leverage Zach had when the deal was done is gone now because of Lauri.

Paxson and Gar have made it abundantly clear.

I don't think they value Zach any less, but they just arent handcuffed concerning Zach. This would be like Gordon Haywood playing hardball when the Celtics just saw Jason Tatum.

This is actually one of the few times I think people actually back the front office's stance on this. I think Zach can be a big part of our future, but if he gets a deal from somewhere else that I think we dont need to pay right now, I will wish him well.

p.s After listening to both Gar and Pax on ESPN1000, both of them seemed opposed to wanting to make the playoffs so soon.

So the notion that Paxson is trying to turn this around quickly is highly exaggerated.

[chrispatrick]

I believe that the main point of dispute that may see the negotiations go south is fairly simply,
Lavine and his agent have a far different assessment of his talents than that of the rest of the league,
including the Bulls.

Lavine''s "sticker shock" is coming soon. The MARKET dictates his VALUE, and not
him, his or agent, the Bulls and certainly not fans on boards . When the market decides what he is worth, he will stop squirming and reality will set in, and he will have to sign a lower than hoped for offer, somewhere and prove it. It's called reality.

There's always a QO and try again next year, healthy and unrestricted.

When players accept the qualifying offer, that usually results in bitterness on the part of the player and management. There are countless of examples I can get into, but I don't have the time. The Bulls need to make a good-faith offer and take it from there. Gary Harris is one player whose career stats look similar to Zach's, though he had a better year last season, and he signed a 4yr 84mil contract. Zach is 2 inches taller, with better athleticism and rebounding prowess. But Harris is a better defender. Harris has career 45%, 37%3pt career fgs and Zach has 44% and 37%3pt. So, expect Zach's contract to fall somewhere in that same range.

You may be very right in terms of what to expect, but comparing LaVine, a net negative his entire career to Harris, a guy who figured it out the last two years would be silly on the Bulls part. Sure, their individual stats bear some resemblance, but their team impact is pretty much complete opposite the past couple of years.

And the Bulls would be silly to pretend defense isn't half the game. Unless you're a star capable of driving an offense all by yourself, what you do on the defensive end matters just as much.

It's theoretically possible that LaVine gets to the level Harris is at, but you're betting on a mere chance and not the reality of what LaVine has been for 4 years.

[JimmyJammer]

There's always a QO and try again next year, healthy and unrestricted.

When players accept the qualifying offer, that usually results in bitterness on the part of the player and management. There are countless of examples I can get into, but I don't have the time. The Bulls need to make a good-faith offer and take it from there. Gary Harris is one player whose career stats look similar to Zach's, though he had a better year last season, and he signed a 4yr 84mil contract. Zach is 2 inches taller, with better athleticism and rebounding prowess. But Harris is a better defender. Harris has career 45%, 37%3pt career fgs and Zach has 44% and 37%3pt. So, expect Zach's contract to fall somewhere in that same range.

You may be very right in terms of what to expect, but comparing LaVine, a net negative his entire career to Harris, a guy who figured it out the last two years would be silly on the Bulls part. Sure, their individual stats bear some resemblance, but their team impact is pretty much complete opposite the past couple of years.

And the Bulls would be silly to pretend defense isn't half the game. Unless you're a star capable of driving an offense all by yourself, what you do on the defensive end matters just as much.

It's theoretically possible that LaVine gets to the level Harris is at, but you're betting on a mere chance and not the reality of what LaVine has been for 4 years.

Advanced stats like net negative, net positive sound great on a RealGM message board, because it makes you feel like you have basketball savvy, but it is not what most people look at. Let's deal with raw data - shooting percentage, 3pt percentage, PPG, shot per game, rebounds per game, assists per game, steals per game. Net positive may or may not have something to do with you when you are on the court, it's subjective.

[Truebiscuit]

p.s After listening to both Gar and Pax on ESPN1000, both of them seemed opposed to wanting to make the playoffs so soon.

So the notion that Paxson is trying to turn this around quickly is highly exaggerated.

I dunno man... after listening to them I kind of got the impression that they don't want to set any semblance of expectations. I think they'd be thrilled if we made the playoffs this season; I'm not anticipating a tank season. I also think Fred might be coaching for his job this season.

[chrispatrick]

When players accept the qualifying offer, that usually results in bitterness on the part of the player and management. There are countless of examples I can get into, but I don't have the time. The Bulls need to make a good-faith offer and take it from there. Gary Harris is one player whose career stats look similar to Zach's, though he had a better year last season, and he signed a 4yr 84mil contract. Zach is 2 inches taller, with better athleticism and rebounding prowess. But Harris is a better defender. Harris has career 45%, 37%3pt career fgs and Zach has 44% and 37%3pt. So, expect Zach's contract to fall somewhere in that same range.

You may be very right in terms of what to expect, but comparing LaVine, a net negative his entire career to Harris, a guy who figured it out the last two years would be silly on the Bulls part. Sure, their individual stats bear some resemblance, but their team impact is pretty much complete opposite the past couple of years.

And the Bulls would be silly to pretend defense isn't half the game. Unless you're a star capable of driving an offense all by yourself, what you do on the defensive end matters just as much.

It's theoretically possible that LaVine gets to the level Harris is at, but you're betting on a mere chance and not the reality of what LaVine has been for 4 years.

Advanced stats like net negative, net positive sound great on a RealGM message board, because it makes you feel like you have basketball savvy, but it is not what most people look at. Let's deal with raw data - shooting percentage, 3pt percentage, PPG, shot per game, rebounds per game, assists per game, steals per game. Net positive may or may not have something to do with you when you are on the court, it's subjective.

All of it is subject to interpretation. But with LaVine it's not hard to watch a game and see why he kills teams. He clearly disrupted the flow of our offense directly limiting what Lauri and Dunn were doing on the offensive side while providing no defensive resistance.

I think LaVine can get back to being the efficient individual offensive scorer he was at Minnesota, but watching him play both places it's quite clear why that doesn't translate into team success because he disrupts opportunities to generate efficient offense killing ball movement and his playmaking for others has always been unacceptable relative to his usage rate. Playing within the flow of an offense and better picking his spots is something he could conceivably get better at in time, but it's concerning he's shown no improvement in this area over 4 years and you're not risking much by letting him go because you can be confident he will remain a defensive liability (even if he eventually becomes a plus offensively).

[chefo]

The Bulls need to do the following--get Zach and the smartest assistant coach they have in a video room, lock the door for 3 hours every day, until he's looked at so much tape that slightly more complex basketball makes sense to him. Watch Klay, other off ball players; have him watch how the Knicks use the Unicorn so he can understand why Lauri needs a prominent role; have him watch the Dubs and how even the super-talented Durant and Steph (mostly) share the ball, even though they can go 1-1 any time they desire (and they often do, when they have to). The biggest service they can do to the organization and Zach himself is to smarten him up.

A smart Lavine can be a very useful player. THat homeless version of Harden has lottery written all over it.

[JimmyJammer]

You may be very right in terms of what to expect, but comparing LaVine, a net negative his entire career to Harris, a guy who figured it out the last two years would be silly on the Bulls part. Sure, their individual stats bear some resemblance, but their team impact is pretty much complete opposite the past couple of years.

And the Bulls would be silly to pretend defense isn't half the game. Unless you're a star capable of driving an offense all by yourself, what you do on the defensive end matters just as much.

It's theoretically possible that LaVine gets to the level Harris is at, but you're betting on a mere chance and not the reality of what LaVine has been for 4 years.

Advanced stats like net negative, net positive sound great on a RealGM message board, because it makes you feel like you have basketball savvy, but it is not what most people look at. Let's deal with raw data - shooting percentage, 3pt percentage, PPG, shot per game, rebounds per game, assists per game, steals per game. Net positive may or may not have something to do with you when you are on the court, it's subjective.

All of it is subject to interpretation. But with LaVine it's not hard to watch a game and see why he kills teams. He clearly disrupted the flow of our offense directly limiting what Lauri and Dunn were doing on the offensive side while providing no defensive resistance.

I think LaVine can get back to being the efficient individual offensive scorer he was at Minnesota, but watching him play both places it's quite clear why that doesn't translate into team success because he disrupts opportunities to generate efficient offense killing ball movement and his playmaking for others has always been unacceptable relative to his usage rate. Playing within the flow of an offense and better picking his spots is something he could conceivably get better at in time, but it's concerning he's shown no improvement in this area over 4 years and you're not risking much by letting him go because you can be confident he will remain a defensive liability (even if he eventually becomes a plus offensively).

Many Bulls fans like to talk about how Zach was disrupting flow and freezing teammates, especially Lauri, but what I saw was a young man playing a role that was given to him. Out of all the players we have on the team, only Zach, and to some degree Dunn, who can get you a shot when you desperately need one. With 5-8 seconds left on the clock, there is nobody else on the team equipped offensively enough to get a shot off, except Zach. If Zach does not take that shot, you are looking at a shotclock violation. So, the burden falls on him because nobody else even wants to take that shot. Lauri, himself, can be quite invisible, not even because of teammates, but because of his less aggressive style of play. Do you know how many times, with 5-10 seconds left on the clock, the team tried to dump the ball to Lauri with a much smaller guy on him, but he could never do anything with it? It's up to Lauri to show that he can be effective in these situations so that his teammates can feel confident enough to seek him out. Historically, LaVine has been a solid catch and shoot and spot-up player, so I don't anticipate any problem with him conforming to a set offense. However, you can have a set offense all you want, but you need guys who can do something outside of it when there is a breakdown.

[Truebiscuit]

Came across this

Watch on YouTube

[jacoby1us]

Resign Lavine and move on, its not like we are going to use our cap room anywhere else and it should not cripple us moving forward to the 19-20 FA class. Jesus Christ PEOPLE!

[NecessaryEvil]

Came across this

Watch on YouTube

great vid

Hoping Lauri & Zach make the 2020 all-star team.

[SensiBull]

You know that guy in high school, who had a sweetheart called Cindy, who dropped him for a jock, and then, for the rest of his life, he mows through girlfriends and ex-wives all named Sandy, Sunday, Wendy, Mindy, Bindi and the like, but denies that he never got over 'Cindy'?

Yeah. That. That's what's happening here.

Anyone who hasn't been living under a rock knows that the way that today's NBA avoids shot clock violations is through the extra swing pass.

It's no longer about Harold Miner, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Grant Hill, Jason Richardson, Gerald Green or whoever the next 6'6" 'freakishly athletic wing' of the day is, spinning around the court like a centrifuge, or Warner Brothers' Tasmanian Devil, only passing the ball when the play that 'calls his own number' unexpectedly breaks down.

We've seen this movie before.

They always wind up being 'upset' by a more democratic style of play from a Chauncey Billups' Detroit, Jason Terry's Mavericks, Steph Curry's Golden State or some other 'mongoose' team that slays the cobra by 'playing the right way.'

This is not about 'punishing' Zach LaVine for not having high enough stats. His stats are fine. He's not being punished for coming off an ACL.

It's about not sending the wrong message to the franchise, the league, future free agent, teammates or Zach himself that this kind of selfish play will be rewarded with big dollars.

People are literally talking about paying this guy:

- More money than Draymond Green or Klay Thompson -
- More money than Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Terry Rozier and Marcus Morris put together
- The same money that Kyrie Irving makes right now


https://hoopshype.com/salaries/boston_celtics/

I don't know how you paint NOT doing that as some sort of bitter grudge or act of spite.

[johnnyvann840]

Bulls should try to sign Lavine for a contract commiserate with a 6th man. Longer the better. Ideally with a team option for the last year.

Contract should also be as front-loaded as possible.

Right when Lou Williams signed that 3 year/$24m extension with the Clipper it, in my opinion, set LaVine's value. That's the going rate for a microwave scorer. Lou Will is about the win the 6th man of the year award, LaVine has a ways to go before he's even at Lou Will's level, no need to pay him like he's James Harden or something.

Exactly. People start talking about Wiggins getting maxed and saying that it's only fair that Lavine get paid similar. That's stupid thinking.

If we are going to do comparisons they go both ways. In what World is Zach Lavine worth more than Lou Williams?

Lou Williams averaged 23.3 pts, 5.3 assists, was a better three-point shooter (38%) than Zach last year or career, and better free-throw shooting (90%).

He led all reserves in the entire NBA scoring off the bench, averaging 23 points per game.

He had four 40-plus point games this season, including a 50 pt game against the Warriors.

I honestly think Zach should be moved to the bench and offered a contract of 3/33 or 4/45. $11Mish per year is MORE than he has proven to be worth.

[samwana]

Bulls should try to sign Lavine for a contract commiserate with a 6th man. Longer the better. Ideally with a team option for the last year.

Contract should also be as front-loaded as possible.

Right when Lou Williams signed that 3 year/$24m extension with the Clipper it, in my opinion, set LaVine's value. That's the going rate for a microwave scorer. Lou Will is about the win the 6th man of the year award, LaVine has a ways to go before he's even at Lou Will's level, no need to pay him like he's James Harden or something.

Exactly. People start talking about Wiggins getting maxed and saying that it's only fair that Lavine get paid similar. That's stupid thinking.

If we are going to do comparisons they go both ways. In what World is Zach Lavine worth more than Lou Williams?

Lou Williams averaged 23.3 pts, 5.3 assists, was a better three-point shooter (38%) than Zach last year or career, and better free-throw shooting (90%).

He led all reserves in the entire NBA scoring off the bench, averaging 23 points per game.

He had four 40-plus point games this season, including a 50 pt game against the Warriors.

I honestly think Zach should be moved to the bench and offered a contract of 3/33 or 4/45. $11Mish per year is MORE than he has proven to be worth.

Sweet Lou is the best comparison for Zach, the way he plays the way his career went. Lou took a while to find the best fitting role and blossoms in that role.

Zach seems to be on the exact same path. Lou is a very good player in his role, he didn't really work out in an extended role, because his game didn't have it to start. In his role he is the best and Zach will probably be a very successful 6th man.

There are other very good players that came of the bench, Ginobli, or very own Kukoc to name a few. Zach in that role would be awesome.

And I would pay him accordingly, between 10 and 15m /year

Edit : I would put bonus pay for usg rate as long as he keeps it under 22%. Bonus for assists 5 upwards. All of those teamplay stats.

Sent from my SM-G920F using RealGM mobile app

[R3AL1TY]

The coaching staff just got to see it to it that Zach doesn't get trapped into hero ball mode when it is unnecessary. And Dunn got to avoid the "my turn to take over" mindset at times too.

[realEAST]

Bulls should try to sign Lavine for a contract commiserate with a 6th man. Longer the better. Ideally with a team option for the last year.

Contract should also be as front-loaded as possible.

Right when Lou Williams signed that 3 year/$24m extension with the Clipper it, in my opinion, set LaVine's value. That's the going rate for a microwave scorer. Lou Will is about the win the 6th man of the year award, LaVine has a ways to go before he's even at Lou Will's level, no need to pay him like he's James Harden or something.

Exactly. People start talking about Wiggins getting maxed and saying that it's only fair that Lavine get paid similar. That's stupid thinking.

If we are going to do comparisons they go both ways. In what World is Zach Lavine worth more than Lou Williams?

Lou Williams averaged 23.3 pts, 5.3 assists, was a better three-point shooter (38%) than Zach last year or career, and better free-throw shooting (90%).

He led all reserves in the entire NBA scoring off the bench, averaging 23 points per game.

He had four 40-plus point games this season, including a 50 pt game against the Warriors.

I honestly think Zach should be moved to the bench and offered a contract of 3/33 or 4/45. $11Mish per year is MORE than he has proven to be worth.

Good thing for us market is pretty dry, both with cap space and for player of that type.

But I'd play him as starter, only way to realy see whether he has made or is capable of making any progress as (team) defender, and to what degree.

Otherwise, if we don't believe he is more than 6th man, I wouldn't even bother to hand him a contract.

But since we don't have anyone better or more talented (whatever we understand under it), I'd give him one full year with preseason.

Essentially, any deal below 14 mil is a good gamble imo. Ideally, 2+1 (TO), but I could live with last year as fully guaranteed or PO.

[madvillian]

I'm too lazy to link it but the CARMELO projection on 538 for Lavine is horrifying.

[Pnjguy]

If we can sign Lavine to around 15 million a year, we can still sign 2 max contracts in next summer. Maybe start with a 4yr/60 mil with an opt-out after year 2 and see what happens. If he wants more, the Bulls will have to attach an asset to Asik in a trade next year and save $11 mil, or stretch him before July 1 and save another $5 mil. So $20 mil a year might be the number. 4yr/$80.

Asik - $5.9 (stretch)
Felicio - 8.1
Dunn - 5.3
Markkanen - 5.3
Kilpatrick - 2
Lavine - 20
Carter - 4.2
Hutchinson - 1.9
2019 1st rd - 4
F/A - 25
F/A - 25

Total = 107 mil

[Truebiscuit]

I think LaVine knows/feels that he can dominate one-on-one, but that just simply isn't the way our offensive system is designed. Again, if we go 5-out at times I'd love for him to be a 'James Harden' type and just go at dudes with a wide open paint. I just don't think you can sustain that look and approach.

Have him work without having the ball in his hands, he did it in Minnesota at times and he can do it here as well. He's got work to do but the talent and athleticism is there. Good thing he's only 23 and not 28.

[WindyCityBorn]

I think LaVine knows/feels that he can dominate one-on-one, but that just simply isn't the way our offensive system is designed. Again, if we go 5-out at times I'd love for him to be a 'James Harden' type and just go at dudes with a wide open paint. I just don't think you can sustain that look and approach.

Have him work without having the ball in his hands, he did it in Minnesota at times and he can do it here as well. He's got work to do but the talent and athleticism is there. Good thing he's only 23 and not 28.

Yeah he wants to go ISO a lot, but he clearly has the skill to play off ball at high level. With the offense running through Lauri now I think we will see him in that role more often similar to how he deferred to Towns and Wiggins, but he still get plenty of shots as our #2 option. Unless he make a massive leap this Summer he has to be OK with not being the man. That's the Finnisher's spot as of now.