Bulls Trade Rumors Only

[Stratmaster]

The moves will never be there. There is no way to make the current version of the team competitive with their assets. That is why sports media is confused. The Bulls goals make no sense given the team and their assets.

Nobody is arguing for making the team worse to just do something. People want the team to recoup assets to start building for the future. You can disagree, but don't create a strawman to argue with. The current Bulls have no future. Let's plan for what's next.

I'm confused. What strawman argument do you think i am making?

I'm a firm believer you build a contending team through incremental improvement. I don't believe in trading for draft assets unless those assets are almost certain to be better in the short term than what you traded away.



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You can't continue to incrementally improve when you have major players on the downside of their career. Do you think Vuc and DeRozan are going to get better? The team hasn't improved in 3 years. Lol.

Which is why they should have been traded when they had value. So what does that mean today, at the deadline, in the trade rumor thread?

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[Stratmaster]

The Bulls are 5-5 in there last 10. They aren't finishing strong.

31 games left in the season. Not only is their 32 game run almost twice as long as the poor start to the season, but there is another 31 left.

Again, trades should have happened long ago. But there is no reason to make stupid ones just for the sake of making them.

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I'm done with this convo.

You were done a long time ago

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[burlydee]

He isn't wrong. The Bulls have been a very good team and a fun team to watch for the last two months (a majority of the season). Ask anyone. Everyone says so.

So yeah... if they are now good and fun, then all the petulant entitled whining is kind of fun sucking. Isn't it?

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This wholeheartedly. They beat the team with the second best record in the league last night. They won despite missing roughly $65 million dollars worth of players. They're playing with a ton of heart, led by White, Caruso, and Derozan. Two of those three are the guys everybody wants to trade, and get back little in terms of current player value. If all the Bulls suck so bad, how do they keep winning? It's HARD to win in the NBA. If we had a Giannis or Embid, I might see the point, but you're not getting that caliber of guy trading Caruso or Debo. Drummond's playing well, and is cheap, let's trade him too for second round picks. News flash, we're already late in a rebuild, centered around Coby White and Pat Williams as our high draft picks, with Lavine as the young present star (he was young when we started it). Added Ball as a young player. They added a couple of vets (Debo and Vuc) to a really young team. If Debo and Drummond leave, what's the average age of our players, 25? How and why do you "blow" up a young team?

Amen, brother.

The Bulls are 24-27. And now I understand how AKME keep their jobs.

[burlydee]

31 games left in the season. Not only is their 32 game run almost twice as long as the poor start to the season, but there is another 31 left.

Again, trades should have happened long ago. But there is no reason to make stupid ones just for the sake of making them.

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I'm done with this convo.

You were done a long time ago

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I was. You're talking nonsense. Do you think the Bulls are going to make the 2nd round of the playoffs? Do you think there going to get out of the playin? You're just yapping.

[MikeDC]

Because the Bulls aren't going to be competitive during the life of his contract and then they'll have to overpay to keep him.

Yep. Caruso doesn't impact games at a high-enough level that he's going to change our fortunes much. Will we be a little worse in the short-run? Yeah. But not a lot.

Why? We're a lot better placed to lose Caruso than pretty much anyone else. If he's gone, what happens? We have more Ayo, more Pat, and more Craig. All solid options.

The return we get from trading Caruso is the highest of anyone we could likely trade. And the downside, in terms of actual impact on the court, is actually pretty low, because we've got more credible options to soak up those minutes.

• Lose Caruso, and we can fill in with Ayo, Pat, Craig, etc. Not as good, but still good enough to win games.
• Lose Drummond, and we fill in with ??? Nobody else on the team can do that. Maybe we can go out and get a guy for cheapish though.
• Lose DeRozan, and and we fill in with ??? Again... we have nobody else who actually does what he does at anything close to the same level. Guys like that aren't available. Doesn't mean we shouldn't consider trading him (we should) but the point I'm making is that Caruso is much more expendable.

In his first two seasons with the Bulls Caruso's on/off differential put him in the 90th and 94th percentile. What do you mean he doesn't impact games enough?

How much more impact could someone want?

When I say "impact games" I assume it means "wins games". The Bulls are a 35-40 win team now. Without Caruso they're... a 35-40 win team.

From that perspective, his impact is essentially 0. Again, the concept is simple. Ayo, Pat, and Craig can do the job well enough. So you move Caruso and improve our future outlook as much as we can.

That's the smart, simple, straightforward move.

[Stratmaster]

The best available move for the Bulls today would be to replace their head coach. That's it. Nothing else out there that would make sense unless someone is willing to give a GOOD player and GOOD pick for Demar; and all the reports say that isn't available.

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[NecessaryEvil]

Read on Twitter

Even if they fully FLEECED the other team, I still highly doubt they would move him, HIGHLY.

I won't be attending next yr's Bulls trade deadline event

[burlydee]

I'm confused. What strawman argument do you think i am making?

I'm a firm believer you build a contending team through incremental improvement. I don't believe in trading for draft assets unless those assets are almost certain to be better in the short term than what you traded away.



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You can't continue to incrementally improve when you have major players on the downside of their career. Do you think Vuc and DeRozan are going to get better? The team hasn't improved in 3 years. Lol.

Which is why they should have been traded when they had value. So what does that mean today, at the deadline, in the trade rumor thread?

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They should trade Derozan instead of letting him walk for free or resigning him.

[Red8911]

Bogdanovic to Knicks means Zach definitely staying now ?

[jump]

Half of you guys are arguing that a team can't improve during the course of the season. Do you realize that? It's an absurd assertion.

No one is arguing that. We’ve all seen this very team improve this season. The issue is what can it improve into.

Actually, a lot of guys are arguing exactly that. Maybe not you. And yes, the issue is how good can this team get? Can they go beyond the Play In? No one can predict that. They just beat one of the top teams. Can they do that consistently enough to get through a playoff series? Don't know, but I do know the experience will be great for Coby and Ayo and Pat and Terry and Philips. Maybe Bitim will be playing by then and help with the playoff experience he has had. Who the hell knows? That's why we watch the games. The move was to trade Lavine. But his injuries nixed that possibility. Other than moving Caruso for FRPs, as Woj claims is possible, we haven't seen any offers for DDR or Drummond that seem worth it.

[Stratmaster]

You can't continue to incrementally improve when you have major players on the downside of their career. Do you think Vuc and DeRozan are going to get better? The team hasn't improved in 3 years. Lol.

Which is why they should have been traded when they had value. So what does that mean today, at the deadline, in the trade rumor thread?

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They should trade Derozan instead of letting him walk for free or resigning him.

It takes two teams and 28 million in salary coming back.

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[jump]

No, I'm literally doing the exact opposite of that. I'm considering the recent stretch of play and the beginning of the season, because that's the actual reality of this season, not some cherry-picked subset of it.

Let's use this analogy. I go to Vegas for a week. Over the first two days, I lose $10,000. Over the rest of the trip, I win $9,000. When I get home, do I get to tell my wife that she should be happy because, despite the fact I lost a thousand bucks, I played really well during the final five days of my trip?

Ridiculous comparison. It's been accepted in sports that it is better to start slow and finish strong since the invention of sports.

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The Bulls are 5-5 in there last 10. They aren't finishing strong.

Of the top 10 teams in the East, here are their records over the past 10 games:

Bucks (#3) 5-5
76ers (#5) 3-7
Pacers (#6) 5-5
Heat (#7) 4-6
Magic (8) 5-5
Bulls (9) 5-5
Hawks (10). 4-6

So you're saying the Bulls don't have the chance to move up in this crowd? Really?

[Bulliever2020]

People pointing to the Twolves win as evidence we are not far away when Charlotte and San Antonio beat them recently as well is just hilarious.

[jnrjr79]

31 games left in the season. Not only is their 32 game run almost twice as long as the poor start to the season, but there is another 31 left.

Again, trades should have happened long ago. But there is no reason to make stupid ones just for the sake of making them.

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In terms of their fate in the playoffs, what do you think the best case, realistic outcome is for the Bulls this year?

Best case? Win a playoff series. Prediction? Lose a playoff series. Worst case? Lose in the play in.

But it doesn't matter. The trades available are either good and help the team, or they aren't.

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It matters greatly. If you think making the second round is the ceiling (which seems implausible - I can't see them beating anyone they'd be playing in the first round, but whatever), then you have to pick a lane here because DeRozan is expiring and Zach wants out. There are multiple reports today that the Bulls are rebuffing offers for DeRozan. Why? What is the plan with him moving forward? If the Bulls really think they can compete now, they need to be trying to improve the roster. If they conclude (rightly, IMO), that this team is on a treadmill and there's not an immediate path to substantial improvement, then they need to get some assets for these guys that won't be here long-term.

The worst thing the Bulls can do is just ride out the string, let DeRozan walk (or sign him to an unwise extension), let Drummond hit free agency, etc. That's the guaranteed path to mediocrity without assets allowing them to reload for the next generation of the team.

[jnrjr79]

Bogdanovic to Knicks means Zach definitely staying now ?

Between that and the Hayward trade, I can't see any realistic team that would trade for an injured LaVine.

[cubd8]

Ridiculous comparison. It's been accepted in sports that it is better to start slow and finish strong since the invention of sports.

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The Bulls are 5-5 in there last 10. They aren't finishing strong.

Of the top 10 teams in the East, here are their records over the past 10 games:

Bucks (#3) 5-5
76ers (#5) 3-7
Pacers (#6) 5-5
Heat (#7) 4-6
Magic (8) 5-5
Bulls (9) 5-5
Hawks (10). 4-6

So you're saying the Bulls don't have the chance to move up in this crowd? Really?

They clearly can move up in the standings, but what is the end result? Getting knocked out by Milwaukee in Round 1?

[burlydee]

Which is why they should have been traded when they had value. So what does that mean today, at the deadline, in the trade rumor thread?

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They should trade Derozan instead of letting him walk for free or resigning him.

It takes two teams and 28 million in salary coming back.

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Wow. What insight!

[jump]

They should trade Derozan instead of letting him walk for free or resigning him.

It takes two teams and 28 million in salary coming back.

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Wow. What insight!

Now THAT is a weak response.

[jump]

The Bulls are 5-5 in there last 10. They aren't finishing strong.

Of the top 10 teams in the East, here are their records over the past 10 games:

Bucks (#3) 5-5
76ers (#5) 3-7
Pacers (#6) 5-5
Heat (#7) 4-6
Magic (8) 5-5
Bulls (9) 5-5
Hawks (10). 4-6

So you're saying the Bulls don't have the chance to move up in this crowd? Really?

They clearly can move up in the standings, but what is the end result? Getting knocked out by Milwaukee in Round 1?

The end result is significant playoff experience for the young guys on the team. Maybe even winning a series.

[GoBlue72391]

Because the Bulls aren't going to be competitive during the life of his contract and then they'll have to overpay to keep him.

Yep. Caruso doesn't impact games at a high-enough level that he's going to change our fortunes much. Will we be a little worse in the short-run? Yeah. But not a lot.

Why? We're a lot better placed to lose Caruso than pretty much anyone else. If he's gone, what happens? We have more Ayo, more Pat, and more Craig. All solid options.

The return we get from trading Caruso is the highest of anyone we could likely trade. And the downside, in terms of actual impact on the court, is actually pretty low, because we've got more credible options to soak up those minutes.

• Lose Caruso, and we can fill in with Ayo, Pat, Craig, etc. Not as good, but still good enough to win games.
• Lose Drummond, and we fill in with ??? Nobody else on the team can do that. Maybe we can go out and get a guy for cheapish though.
• Lose DeRozan, and and we fill in with ??? Again... we have nobody else who actually does what he does at anything close to the same level. Guys like that aren't available. Doesn't mean we shouldn't consider trading him (we should) but the point I'm making is that Caruso is much more expendable.

In his first two seasons with the Bulls Caruso's on/off differential put him in the 90th and 94th percentile. What do you mean he doesn't impact games enough?

How much more impact could someone want?

It's an absurd argument to make. Caruso is about as impactful and important as a non-star player can possibly be. To argue otherwise is just ridiculous.