Ken Berger on the Bulls

[dumbell78]

This reminds of the movie Along Came Polly, and how Polly was accused of being on the "non-plan" plan. This is a non-plan plan. I thought Pax wasn't into pie in the sky FA signings?

[RedBulls23]

We need more vets that won't listen to Fred. Or in general don't think much of him. Which will probably be every vet they the FO thinks of signing.

[GetBuLLish]

This reminds of the movie Along Came Polly, and how Polly was accused of being on the "non-plan" plan. This is a non-plan plan. I thought Pax wasn't into pie in the sky FA signings?

Great movie.

Philip Seymour Hoffman is actually imitating Bobby Portis in that basketball scene.

LET IT RAIN!

[Ctownbulls]

Not a bad theory in concept. I doubt the execution.

[dumbell78]

This reminds of the movie Along Came Polly, and how Polly was accused of being on the "non-plan" plan. This is a non-plan plan. I thought Pax wasn't into pie in the sky FA signings?

Great movie.

Philip Seymour Hoffman is actually imitating Bobby Portis in that basketball scene.

LET IT RAIN!

OUTLET!!!!!

[Mech Engineer]

This is a dumpster fire. This team needs to pick a lane; either you're rebuilding or you aren't. At this point, the reset button needs to be hit and start from scratch. The coach and GM also needs to go. The problem is that a. Reinsdorf won't fire either guy and b. Seems as though Reinsdorf and the other owners are more concerned about profit and making money (rightfully so) over winning. It's difficult as a fan to be a fan of a team with no direction and owners that seemingly don't care...

I don't think Reinsdorf has mediocre or average expectations. He is old, made enough money and he supposedly pushed the White Sox to make big investments on veteran players to win now which backfired. But, they tried to win and couldn't execute properly.

I think it's the same with the Bulls. He wants them to win and these guys are not executing properly. No owner will not want to win. The question is not about whether he wants to win or not with Reinsdorf. It is about the execution and the process. He has hired these two guys who are stuck with their inability to be creative, aggressive and are making mistakes with draft picks which was their only source of team construction.

You are right that it is difficult to be a fan of a team with a direction which doesn't make any sense. The direction is mostly a denial of reality. They have messed up their draft picks even as possible rotation players. They don't have many assets. Their direction is dependent on 2 things...

1) Trying to attract a star free agent in prime which they have never been successful even during their good times. Remember in 2010, they didn't have much competition either with only a couple more teams fighting for the best free agent class ever.

There will always be a couple of teams who will clear space in 2018 even if a good free agent becomes available and those teams will have the advantage of showcasing possibly a better team.

2) They are also talking about making trades for talent. That has never been their strength and it will be the first time if they pull off a good talent for talent trade or they will be taking on a junk contract if they are trying to use a Rondo contract trade. That junk contract player is not going to be a star either.

As you said, it is frustrating.

[Hangtime84]

Nothing new here move along

[d boy gentleman]

This is a dumpster fire. This team needs to pick a lane; either you're rebuilding or you aren't. At this point, the reset button needs to be hit and start from scratch. The coach and GM also needs to go. The problem is that a. Reinsdorf won't fire either guy and b. Seems as though Reinsdorf and the other owners are more concerned about profit and making money (rightfully so) over winning. It's difficult as a fan to be a fan of a team with no direction and owners that seemingly don't care...

I don't think Reinsdorf has mediocre or average expectations. He is old, made enough money and he supposedly pushed the White Sox to make big investments on veteran players to win now which backfired. But, they tried to win and couldn't execute properly.

I think it's the same with the Bulls. He wants them to win and these guys are not executing properly. No owner will not want to win. The question is not about whether he wants to win or not with Reinsdorf. It is about the execution and the process. He has hired these two guys who are stuck with their inability to be creative, aggressive and are making mistakes with draft picks which was their only source of team construction.

You are right that it is difficult to be a fan of a team with a direction which doesn't make any sense. The direction is mostly a denial of reality. They have messed up their draft picks even as possible rotation players. They don't have many assets. Their direction is dependent on 2 things...

1) Trying to attract a star free agent in prime which they have never been successful even during their good times. Remember in 2010, they didn't have much competition either with only a couple more teams fighting for the best free agent class ever.

There will always be a couple of teams who will clear space in 2018 even if a good free agent becomes available and those teams will have the advantage of showcasing possibly a better team.

2) They are also talking about making trades for talent. That has never been their strength and it will be the first time if they pull off a good talent for talent trade or they will be taking on a junk contract if they are trying to use a Rondo contract trade. That junk contract player is not going to be a star either.

As you said, it is frustrating.

I don't think that Reinsdorf cares either way. Like you said, he's old and has made his money as well as the rest of the shareholders of the team. Yes, the White Sox plan backfired and he did't fire the guy responsible for the terrible moves: Kenny Williams. They finally hit the reset button, but the Sox aren't as profitable as the Bulls. May be wrong on that...

With the new cap, its going to be difficult to attract any free agents unless you overpay the Evan Turner, Solomon Hill or Allen Crabbe's of the world. Once again it depends on the team choosing a lane. Like I said, the coach and GM needs to go first and the new Gm and coach needs to choose a lane and be let alone to do their jobs. Holberg is being made to look like a doofus here and I think it's all on GarPax and probably upper management as well as to the weird lineups.

[Am2626]

This is a dumpster fire. This team needs to pick a lane; either you're rebuilding or you aren't. At this point, the reset button needs to be hit and start from scratch. The coach and GM also needs to go. The problem is that a. Reinsdorf won't fire either guy and b. Seems as though Reinsdorf and the other owners are more concerned about profit and making money (rightfully so) over winning. It's difficult as a fan to be a fan of a team with no direction and owners that seemingly don't care...

I don't think Reinsdorf has mediocre or average expectations. He is old, made enough money and he supposedly pushed the White Sox to make big investments on veteran players to win now which backfired. But, they tried to win and couldn't execute properly.

I think it's the same with the Bulls. He wants them to win and these guys are not executing properly. No owner will not want to win. The question is not about whether he wants to win or not with Reinsdorf. It is about the execution and the process. He has hired these two guys who are stuck with their inability to be creative, aggressive and are making mistakes with draft picks which was their only source of team construction.

You are right that it is difficult to be a fan of a team with a direction which doesn't make any sense. The direction is mostly a denial of reality. They have messed up their draft picks even as possible rotation players. They don't have many assets. Their direction is dependent on 2 things...

1) Trying to attract a star free agent in prime which they have never been successful even during their good times. Remember in 2010, they didn't have much competition either with only a couple more teams fighting for the best free agent class ever.

There will always be a couple of teams who will clear space in 2018 even if a good free agent becomes available and those teams will have the advantage of showcasing possibly a better team.

2) They are also talking about making trades for talent. That has never been their strength and it will be the first time if they pull off a good talent for talent trade or they will be taking on a junk contract if they are trying to use a Rondo contract trade. That junk contract player is not going to be a star either.

As you said, it is frustrating.

I think the most concerning thing is that Michael Reinsdorf is a carbon copy of his father. I don't see any hope for this franchise as long as that family remains in charge. Maybe Michael Reinsdorf's kid will become the next Rocky Wirtz and do for the Bulls what Rocky Wirtz did for the Blackhawks. Expect another generation of futility.

[sh0ck]

Back on track, mark me as opposed to this recycled "Have cap space improve through free agency" plan.

A) Because it has a low success rate

B) It's boring and wasteful to the present

C) These are the 2018 free agents:

Durant
Dirk
Wade
Brook Lopez
DeMarcus Cousins
Pau Gasol
Tony Parker
Rudy Gay
Derrick Favors
Trevor Ariza
Avery Bradley
Jabari Parker
Andrew Wiggins
Nick Young
Dante Exum
Julius Randle
Seth Curry
Doug McDermott
Rodney Hood
....other uninteresting names

You're actually missing some names on this list because you've completely ignored players with Opt-Out clauses (all of which who will most likely exercise with the increasing cap).

LeBron James - Most likely not leaving Cleveland
Carmelo Anthony - Depends on whether he gets traded from NY next year, but most likely will opt-out to sign a final big deal
DeAndre Jordan - Really dependent on his progression (now an All-Star) and whether the Clippers are able to hold onto CP3 and Blake (has that interesting play that he's BFFs with Jimmy Butler)
LaMarcus Aldridge - Could opt out to get that big payday, but I think the Spurs find a way to keep him there with Leonard.
Paul George - This is the big target of 2018. Lots of smoke, but who knows if there is any fire in regards to him going to LAL.
Enes Kanter - Not terribly exciting, and I dunno if he opts out of 18 million
Thadeus Young - Also not too exciting, but might opt out of they don't retain Paul George. At 13 million per, I think he could get more on the open market
Wilson Chandler - the Chicago connection, but he'll be 30+ by that time. Not horrible, but just more of a nice piece than a difference maker.
Monta Ellis - If he took a bench role, maybe. But for the most part barfemoji.
Austin Rivers - Eye Roll.
Danny Green - Prototypical 3 and D player, but has been pretty sporadic these last two years.
Iman Shumpert - His development in the next two years is going to determine his opt-in or not.
Darrell Arthur - Meh
Kosta Kofus - Mehhhh
Garrett Temple - not the worst, but I'll be pissed if the Bulls give him 8+ million per required for him to opt-out
Corey Joseph - Really interesting guy to look at. Solid in his spot starts. But not sure if he's the type of guy to break the bank on.
Kyle O'Quinn - Kind of underrated. On a pretty small deal now, could see him opt out.

[aramada]

So what non-Bulls idiot executive thinks the FA market is going to crash? Buried lead here.

Gar mentioned it in an interview a week ago I believe

[Stratmaster]

As always, I opened the forum and sought out a thread where a grouchy old **** might be able to contribute some bitter regrets over the current state of affairs. This topic looked promising.

However, it appears that Strat has this under control. Carry on.

You're welcome! Take the day off.

Sent from my SM-G920V using RealGM mobile app

[Stratmaster]

In the spirit of continuing to pull my share of the load. If I hear Rondo or Niko say "It's tough not knowing what your playing time is going to be game to game" I'm going to puke. What I want to hear one of these guys say is "it's tough not feeling guilty cashing my checks when I have played so poorly that I'm no longer even playing".

For you youngsters out there, yes, I am aware that no one actually cashes checks anymore. For the even younger youngsters, checks are these paper things that used to be how people got paid before direct deposit. We would have to walk uphill both ways in the snow to the bank to deposit them. If you wanted the cash right away it was even worse. Your bank would have to hold the check for a month of Sundays to be sure it cleared, so instead you had to walk uphill in the snow both ways to whatever bank the person writing the check used to get the cash.

[samwana]

Lol strat, you're on a roll. Keep the good stuff coming!

[biggestbullsfan]

This reminds of the movie Along Came Polly, and how Polly was accused of being on the "non-plan" plan. This is a non-plan plan. I thought Pax wasn't into pie in the sky FA signings?

I disagree. I believe they have a plan. I dont think they are great at executing or sticking to it. They tend to change it as it goes along.

[jnrjr79]

Berger, a long-time NBA writer, published a piece today on the Bulls. It covers a lot of what we've been discussing in other threads, but comes with his thoughts and information he's received from "sources"

Like hedge fund managers, they're counting on a crash after two straight summers of exorbitant contracts given out amid unprecedented spikes in the salary cap. And when other teams pull back, the Bulls believe they'll be ready to pounce.

"This market's going to shut down in 14 months," one executive within the league said. "And when it does and you have flexibility, it's a buyer's market and you'll have opportunities."

By then, Wade and Rondo will be long gone, and the Bulls will be banking on their ability to attract high-impact free agents in their prime—something they've never done. It's also something that will be even more challenging if the collateral damage from the Wade-Rondo experiment continues to mount.

Good article. I found the above section to be the most illuminating. Many have insisted the Bulls have no plan or acted confounded by the plan. A minority of us (Duck comes to mind) have taken the position that the plan is pretty straightforward and has been pretty obvious since this past off-season: It's to maintain cap space for 2018 in the hopes that other teams have spent all of theirs in 2016 and 2017 and that it's become a buyer's market. It's notable that Berger and his executive source also seem to find this plan relatively clear and intuitive. (Although Berger views the plan as being dependent on the Bulls landing superstars with the cap space. I think that the Bulls plainly understand that it's hard to land superstars and have contingency plans for the cap space such as getting assets back in exchange for taking on bad or at least big contracts.)

Here's the issue I have with trying to make the team better via 2018 free agency (and apparently treading water again for another offseason in 2017). In the 2018 offseason period, Jimmy Butler will be going into the last year of his deal, and therefore his trade value will be considerably lower than it is now. If you strike out with the big names in free agency and fail to build a contender, there is a reasonably good chance Butler will walk. The chance you keep him is if he meets the requirements for the designated player max contract and wants that $200M contract (and the Bulls are willing to give it to him, which remains to be seen).

The 2018 free agency plan, assuming it involves keeping Butler through that offseason, presents a serious risk that the Bulls strike out in free agency and then don't get a whole lot for Butler, making them enter a tanking phase without loading up on any assets in advance.

Given all that, it seems to me the Bulls need to figure out their path (tank or acquiring good players) this offseason, not next offseason.

[Lauri_Legend]

I think it is just a beginning

the beginning of what?

of the end

[AirP.]

In the spirit of continuing to pull my share of the load. If I hear Rondo or Niko say "It's tough not knowing what your playing time is going to be game to game" I'm going to puke. What I want to hear one of these guys say is "it's tough not feeling guilty cashing my checks when I have played so poorly that I'm no longer even playing".

The lack of knowing ones role is a huge problem and that also includes minutes. Not many coaches can create environments for their players that can overcome the lack of consistent minutes. If you want someone who will be happy being jerked around in minutes, go get a vet who is past their prime for that job or do what Thibs did, basically not play young players(probably because of this problem). Let them hunger for playing time instead of picking out of a hat who's playing and who's getting a DNP. It's odd that people don't think stability has it's merits in basketball when it comes to rotations.

On players feeling guilty cashing checks after playing so poorly, that happens everywhere in basically every job. The players are practicing, putting in work like their teams have them do. Most players who you have a problem with should get what they deserve in the free agent market.

[Stratmaster]

Lol strat, you're on a roll. Keep the good stuff coming!

It is dangerous to encourage me. "Careful what you ask for..you might just get it".

But, as always, I'm here to help.

[AirP.]

Instead of a new thread go listen to the latest Lowe Post, fast forward to 13:30 for the Chicago part. Not sure how many Bulls fans will enjoy what they hear.
http://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-qg92h-2268696