Buy low guys with superstar upside

[musiqsoulchild]

Clearly, the answer is Lonzo Ball. He is the only one that fits the trifecta of:

1) Need
2) Feasibility of acquisition, and
3) Potential superstar upside

Brogdon comes a close second but as an RFA his financial value will be much closer to that of a star. So, not much upside there.

Another alternative is Derrick Rose. He ALSO fits the trifecta of Need + Feasibility + Upside.

[musiqsoulchild]

Also, Cousins on a 2 year deal has upside. His value is low right now. But there is Game there and a will to win.

Ditto with John Wall who is sidelined with injury.

I'd trade Dunn + WCJ + #7 + Felicio for John Wall. And sign DeMarcus in FA.

Wall
Zach
Otto
Lauri
Cousins

[League Circles]

Also, Cousins on a 2 year deal has upside. His value is low right now. But there is Game there and a will to win.

Ditto with John Wall who is sidelined with injury.

I'd trade Dunn + WCJ + #7 + Felicio for John Wall. And sign DeMarcus in FA.

Wall
Zach
Otto
Lauri
Cousins

I've always been a Wall fan but wouldn't trade anything at all for him now. He's probably going to be quite bad after his Achilles heals. More like a vet min player IMO than a 40 mil guy. I think Dunn will be better next year.

[kulaz3000]

I agree that when considering the premise of this thread, a player like Zach almost perfectly fits the bill, however, to me, Zach will be what he is, considering he is a 5 season player already. I understand that he missed practically one whole season due to his injury, the fact remains, even removing that season entirely, he is a 4 year veteran at the very least, and if he were to have made a jump, last seasons jump will likely be his biggest jump and the rest of his game will be smoothed out if he continues to improve, but even then, it's unlikely he will take another big leap.

I go by the theory that a player rarely ever makes a significant leap in their production and play once they passed their 3rd or 4th season. Not saying it applies for every player obviously, but I find in most cases this approach seems to be true, which to me strikes out a player like Zach and I'd focus more on 2nd and 3rd year players, who aren't in the most ideal situations, or have yet to figure out the league, who can potentially make that leaps into stardom.

[Am2626]

It's a truism that the NBA is a superstar driven league. However since everyone knows this, superstars are usually really hard to acquire. The best teams in the NBA have gotten them on the cheap. The Bucks got Giannis at 15 in the draft, the Rockets got Harden for two decent vets and two mid round firsts. Curry was drafted at 7. The Raptors got Kawhi at a discount due to his pending FA.

Who are the buy low superstar candidates that the Bulls should be looking at?

One NBA guy that comes to mind for me is Ben Simmons. I don't think he pairs well with Embiid and his lack of shooting does dampen his upside. If he does fix that though, he's going to be one of the best players in the league. If Philly is willing to trade him, I think the Bulls should be all over it.

In the draft, after watching more of Darius Garland, I see a lot of Kyrie Irving (hopefully minus the weird moodiness). I'd look to move up a few picks if needed.

Any other candidates?

What would the Bulls have to give up to get Ben Simmons?

[Repeat 3-peat]

Wall has the worse contract in the league, that was the opinion before the Achilles injury. Just no, I'm not even sure he plays next season.

[HomoSapien]

I won't say any of these guys are stars but all could really bust out in the right situation:

Caris Levert
Julius Randle
Aaron Gordon
Hassan Whiteside
Alex Len
Mario Herzonja

I'll also add that if Dunn was on another team we'd probably talk about him as a reclamation project. He had some really positive moments under Hoiberg and there is something to be said to putting your personnel in the right position to gain confidence and succeed.

[Kurt Heimlich]

Ditto with John Wall who is sidelined with injury.

I'd trade Dunn + WCJ + #7 + Felicio for John Wall. And sign DeMarcus in FA.

Wall
Zach
Otto
Lauri
Cousins

Woof, Musiq did you see Wall's contract? And while medical and recuperative techniques have vastly improved over the years, the Achilles tear is a brutal injury for a guy who will be 30+ and highly dependent on speed and agility for his competitive edge. The Wiz will have to pay (significantly) to move that contract. There's no way the Bulls would give this up.

[Am2626]

Not really a buy low candidate (neither are those in OP imo) but Bradley Beal is closest thing to superstar currently kind of on the market.

Here is comprasion of him and Harden at same age:

Spoiler:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=James+Harden&player_id1_select=James+Harden&player_id1=hardeja01&y1=2015&player_id2_hint=Bradley+Beal&player_id2_select=Bradley+Beal&y2=2019&player_id2=bealbr01&idx=players

I'd give #7 + Lauri (or Wendell, but imo it would take Lauri), maybe some minor asset too (ideally, Wiz would take on Felicio in salary matching process) - not saying I advocate the move absolutely since there is risk of Beal leaving in two years, but it would make us pretty interesting as better fitting Wizards with more flexibility to add talent.

We can fill our gap at forward posotion through FA this or next year (Draymond?) or internally (development, good low profile draft picks: Hutch, Paschall, Samanic?).

Also, having Beal along rest of our guys might put us in the discussion for some bigger name FA in more optimistic scenario.

You’d give up Lauri to get Beal?!! Don’t think that is a smart thing to do. Also doesn’t Beal’s skill set overlap with LaVine’s?

[HomoSapien]

Ditto with John Wall who is sidelined with injury.

I'd trade Dunn + WCJ + #7 + Felicio for John Wall. And sign DeMarcus in FA.

Wall
Zach
Otto
Lauri
Cousins

Woof, Musiq did you see Wall's contract? And while medical and recuperative techniques have vastly improved over the years, the Achilles tear is a brutal injury for a guy who will be 30+ and highly dependent on speed and agility for his competitive edge. The Wiz will have to pay (significantly) to move that contract. There's no way the Bulls would give this up.

Trading for Wall was always a risky proposition. Now it's a complete no go.

[Leslie Forman]

The aim with what this roster is right now really shouldn't be buying low, they arguably already blew their load on that idea by getting Porter.

The aim should be selling high.

[Axl Rose]

Wall has the worse contract in the league

Not just now but in the history of the league.

[DanTown8587]

In the draft, the obvious answer is Jarret Culver. There is a lot to like about his game but it all relies on his jumpshot being consistent and not what it was last year. Obviously very good size, decent handles, good two way potential but the jump shot is just a little too shaky to make him a guy you trust and I don't see how you provide value in the modern NBA if you aren't a shooter. Fix that though and all of the sudden, everything else makes a ton of sense. I don't love his game and don't love the idea of him at 7 but I'd definitely gamble on his upside and floor more so than Coby White.

In free agency/trade, there are about eight guys that I like to be good guys to look at getting on multi-year, low cost deals. The only guy I like to ever threaten all-star status is Brogodn. Malcom Brogdon (would pay him the max)

[realEAST]

Not really a buy low candidate (neither are those in OP imo) but Bradley Beal is closest thing to superstar currently kind of on the market.

Here is comprasion of him and Harden at same age:

Spoiler:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=James+Harden&player_id1_select=James+Harden&player_id1=hardeja01&y1=2015&player_id2_hint=Bradley+Beal&player_id2_select=Bradley+Beal&y2=2019&player_id2=bealbr01&idx=players

I'd give #7 + Lauri (or Wendell, but imo it would take Lauri), maybe some minor asset too (ideally, Wiz would take on Felicio in salary matching process) - not saying I advocate the move absolutely since there is risk of Beal leaving in two years, but it would make us pretty interesting as better fitting Wizards with more flexibility to add talent.

We can fill our gap at forward posotion through FA this or next year (Draymond?) or internally (development, good low profile draft picks: Hutch, Paschall, Samanic?).

Also, having Beal along rest of our guys might put us in the discussion for some bigger name FA in more optimistic scenario.

You’d give up Lauri to get Beal?!! Don’t think that is a smart thing to do. Also doesn’t Beal’s skill set overlap with LaVine’s?

It's something that I haven't considered before this thread yesterday, but the more I look at it the more it looks appealing.

It may look strange since Markk is out best hope for high level star, but Beal already plays at that level and it is quite possible that Lauri tops as worse player.
But Beal is just 25, and has improved every season, and could flourish away from Wall, so it's not excluded he also has some room to grow still.

As for him and LaVine, even though they have similar skillset, Beal just does things at higher level, especially as initiator. Also, their skillsets might be overlapping, but they aren't redundant since having two capable ballhandlers who can create off the dribble is actually a big plus.

Besides, LaVine has still room to grow in that department, and could learn from Beal. Good thing is, being capable playing off ball, those two wouldn't be getting in eachothers way as much as for ex. Wall did.

His and LaVine skillset are

[wonderboy2]

Not really a buy low candidate (neither are those in OP imo) but Bradley Beal is closest thing to superstar currently kind of on the market.

Here is comprasion of him and Harden at same age:

Spoiler:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=James+Harden&player_id1_select=James+Harden&player_id1=hardeja01&y1=2015&player_id2_hint=Bradley+Beal&player_id2_select=Bradley+Beal&y2=2019&player_id2=bealbr01&idx=players

I'd give #7 + Lauri (or Wendell, but imo it would take Lauri), maybe some minor asset too (ideally, Wiz would take on Felicio in salary matching process) - not saying I advocate the move absolutely since there is risk of Beal leaving in two years, but it would make us pretty interesting as better fitting Wizards with more flexibility to add talent.

We can fill our gap at forward posotion through FA this or next year (Draymond?) or internally (development, good low profile draft picks: Hutch, Paschall, Samanic?).

Also, having Beal along rest of our guys might put us in the discussion for some bigger name FA in more optimistic scenario.

You’d give up Lauri to get Beal?!! Don’t think that is a smart thing to do. Also doesn’t Beal’s skill set overlap with LaVine’s?

It's something that I haven't considered before this thread yesterday, but the more I look at it the more it looks appealing.

It may look strange since Markk is out best hope for high level star, but Beal already plays at that level and it is quite possible that Lauri tops as worse player.
But Beal is just 25, and has improved every season, and could flourish away from Wall, so it's not excluded he also has some room to grow still.

As for him and LaVine, even though they have similar skillset, Beal just does things at higher level, especially as initiator. Also, their skillsets might be overlapping, but they aren't redundant since having two capable ballhandlers who can create off the dribble is actually a big plus.

Besides, LaVine has still room to grow in that department, and could learn from Beal. Good thing is, being capable playing off ball, those two wouldn't be getting in eachothers way as much as for ex. Wall did.

His and LaVine skillset are

I like Beal but think he’s alittle overrated. I’ve seen him go against good guards and get ABSOLUTELY torched. His defense is very overrated. His handle is nonthing specialfor a guard but has improved since he came into the league. He has a nice stroke and a strong frame and is very tough. But he’s not a needle mover. I also seen him struggle to beat very good defenders off the bounce at times.

[logical_art]

What about Jayson Tatum? He slumped after a great rookie year but still has a ton of ability.

His value is likely still far above "buy low" territory. If you believe what you read, Tatum is untouchable for Ainge beyond an AD level talent. Not exactly a "buy low" candidate.

Lonzo is the obvious buy low guy. I just wonder if the 7th pick qualifies as buying "low". Kris Dunn thinks Lonzo can't shoot.

By buy low, I mean a guy's value is relatively low, not necessarily bargain bin.

I wonder if Kyrie resigns if they'd be open to moving Tatum. The two don't really play well together.

[realEAST]

You’d give up Lauri to get Beal?!! Don’t think that is a smart thing to do. Also doesn’t Beal’s skill set overlap with LaVine’s?

It's something that I haven't considered before this thread yesterday, but the more I look at it the more it looks appealing.

It may look strange since Markk is out best hope for high level star, but Beal already plays at that level and it is quite possible that Lauri tops as worse player.
But Beal is just 25, and has improved every season, and could flourish away from Wall, so it's not excluded he also has some room to grow still.

As for him and LaVine, even though they have similar skillset, Beal just does things at higher level, especially as initiator. Also, their skillsets might be overlapping, but they aren't redundant since having two capable ballhandlers who can create off the dribble is actually a big plus.

Besides, LaVine has still room to grow in that department, and could learn from Beal. Good thing is, being capable playing off ball, those two wouldn't be getting in eachothers way as much as for ex. Wall did.

His and LaVine skillset are

I like Beal but think he’s alittle overrated. I’ve seen him go against good guards and get ABSOLUTELY torched. His defense is very overrated. His handle is nonthing specialfor a guard but has improved since he came into the league. He has a nice stroke and a strong frame and is very tough. But he’s not a needle mover. I also seen him struggle to beat very good defenders off the bounce at times.

He's got his flaws and is not yet on level with top guards - Lillard, Curry, Harden - but I'd take him right now over mostly everybody else. He is also 4 years younger than these guys. You'd expect him to keep improving based on what he has shown so far - both him and Wizards played much better when he was option no.1, so it is not unreasonable to think there is more to come when he is not behind the Wall anymore.

He is an overrated defender if you'd expected him to be a plus defender, but most of the top guards also aren't and they do thorch each other most of the night. Outside them, he fares pretty well.

If he can give you 28/5/7 - and that is just one point and one assist added to his post All Star break numbers on awful Wiz team that he kept in PO contention for a while - on what should be more talented and better fitting team than Wizards, I think it would move a needle for this team quite a bit.

[GimmeDat]

Superstar talent is a stretch, but I do think, in terms of young guys that may not necessarily cost one of our core pieces on top of the pick, I do think Lonzo pending the jumpshot and MPJ (in theory, injury history and non-scoring skillset massive obstacles)

No mistake about it, guys like Kevin Knox, Josh Jackson, Malik Monk, etc. are nothing more than high profile names as far as I'm concerned. Knox has a terrible feel and can't play defense, his upside really, to me, is a small-4 who can shoot/score and bring little else to the table. Josh Jackson is barely worth a roster spot especially given the baggage. Malik Monk I believe in his scoring/shooting/secondary initiator potential, but his upside is like a poor man's LouWill, he's just a scorer. Would take on all guys depending on the price point, but not particularly enamoured by any of them and definitely wouldn't consider them to have star upside. Honestly, I would #38 for Knox or Monk but that's about it. Might seem like an extreme stance but that goes to show.

I think physical tools, draft range, etc. are often overvalued, and things like IQ/feel are highly undervalued.

If you're trying to find a guy who can develop in to a star, a diamond in the rough that won't cost a haul, you want to find guys like your Derrick White/Pascal Siakam's... they're not necessarily explosive athletes or stand-out/high draft pick dudes, but they have a great feel for the game, play high level defense, and have demonstrated a great attitude/work ethic.

Dejounte Murray is a guy that I hold very highly, but it would be very unlikely of the Spurs to shop a young guy they like. But he fits the bill perfectly for a breakout - he's an elite defender/rebounder, not an explosive athlete per se but he is a highly functional one, all he has to do is develop the skill-set offensively.

Harry Giles is not a positional need for us, and the Kings look to be perfectly comfortable bringing him along as a luxury big that could develop in to more, but he's a guy obviously slowed up by injuries the past few years, but he's a good defender, understands the game, and again, and just needs to refine his offensive skill-set. Not a guy I would go for personally given our roster but definitely a guy to keep an eye on.

Here's another guy I love - Anfernee Simons. Would be a lottery pick this year, honestly I would have him above White and on par with a Garland level prospect, based on how I viewed him out of HS. Been largely hiding behind Portland's deep back-court but
had 37/6/9 in his last game of the RS. Time will tell whether he develops in to an actual PG, think he's more of a combo, but potential wise, big fan.

I would trade the pick in a second for Dejounte Murray, he's a better prospect than Lonzo right now and a great fit. I would trade maybe Simons/25 and additional sweetner (maybe we can get off some salary) for 7. That's a tough one because Simons is so unproven.

[sco]

Buying low like what the Nets did getting D’Angelo Russell?

Not even a few options like that out there that I can think of.

IMO, this is a good example...that said, Russell didn't show much in LA, and more importantly, they traded BroLo and a late 1st for him. BroLo, IMO, was a top 3 around C this season.

Going back to OP, you want buy-low guys. Wiggins or Ingram come to mind as young guys with possibly big upside.

[Southpaw]

Great call on Dejounte Murray. I think he has legit star potential but like you said, I doubt the Spurs would let him go.

I'd be all over Tatum if the C's make him available. We've seen him in big games so in that sense, he's proven. He just needs to be away from Kyrie from what it seems.

I think Fultz is the ultimate buy low candidate. Showed a lot of promise before coming to the league and if he ever reach that potential, he's a superstar.

Any thoughts on Nkitilikina? He's a buy low candidate but not sure he has star upside.