Who or How has the team grown/developed this year?

[DorO]

Lauri has regressed online in almost every game. Maybe his regression is partly on Jimbo schemes, fatherhood, vegan diet, lack of training, wrong training, injuries or something else but in eye test he has been in horrible slump. Right now he is merely role player, unfortunately.

[PaKii94]

pulling your post out below...

The Bulls started the year with the motion offense where guys get the ball on the wing and its up to them to drive, call for pick and roll, etc. In the first game, Lauri drove. He got a ton of two pointers, virtually all unassisted, and had his best game of the year.

After that game, he stopped. He just hung out on the outside and shot 3's when open. Never took the ball and attacked. The offense to start the year was set up for Lauri to do exactly what you say, just like it was last February and for whatever reason he didn't do it after game 1.

Yes it was setup like that I agree. They went away from it when Lauri got scared of the ball and ran away from it. Now was that due to lack of skill, offensive system, or injury? I chose to believe he did (and still does) have the nagging oblique injury. He didn't look "right" and yes at that point you don't force the issue more. He's been quoted in saying he wants to play 82 games and be out there even if it's just to provide spacing for others.

As the season went on, the Bulls tried to get Lauri going by going to a number of set plays with him coming off screens being a primary option. It did drastically improve his efficiency and output.

Chicken or the egg? During november he was relegated to a spacer (maybe it was a coaching decision or maybe it was Lauri again avoiding contact). By the beginning of December, Lauri was looking better physically but still being used as a spacer... as the month went on, more things have been integrated to get him shots which is good. Probably should be more. I don't think the sets themselves are the reason for his increased efficiency. It's more like he is feeling better so he's being reintegrated into the offense.

That said, he still has the opportunity to drive when he catches the ball of a screen and he virtually never does. I don't know what is up with him but his lack of FGA is on him.

This is the system. Idk why you don't get it. Maybe it's because it goes against "hurdurr Lauri bad! He no good!" You blatantly just ignore it. That's where just looking at numbers are flawed. YOU NEED THE CONTEXT. That's like saying climate change is not a thing because it gets cold in the wintertime. I have posted this before. Fleming's system is 4 perimeter players and one big man. Lauri is being used as a perimeter player. Here is the perimeter player's role:

2) Fill 4 perimeter spots at all times (there will be times where guys are involved in dribble penetration, etc). Once you pass the ball as a perimeter guy and you have to go back outside. Corner, foul-line extended, high elbow gives you six ossible places for those four guys to be - and only those spots..

And this is the post-guy role (taken by WCJ).:

3) Post-guy rules: if You're on the ball side, post above the block. Opposite the ball, then go behind the defense, as far down as possible to get the best spacing.

3a) The bigs step to the short corner inside the three, if there's dribble penetration in order to increase the spacing and the holes in the defense. If there's a baseline drive, the big has to use the free-throw line-extended as his goal. If there are guys who are not good from that spot there are things that can be done to make that work anyway.

We saw Lauri play the post-guy role last game with WCJ out. Unfortunately that's a terrible role for him as a C on the defensive end.

https://www.denverstiffs.com/2015/7/9/8925953/chris-fleming-his-offensive-philosophy-warning-long-slog-beware-of

I have shown numbers before. Its really, really hard to get high assist guys a high number of shots. Duncan Robinson is a great example. The guy blows Lauri out of the water as a shooter with his 67.5% ts. Miami has all the incentive in the world to get the guy shots. He is assisted on most of his attempts. How many does he get per game? 8.4 Don't you think Spolestra would get DR a ton more shots if he could? Of course . . . but he can't . . . because its really hard to get a guy who needs to be assisted a large volume of shots.

But he is not a high assist guy... he is a big man who is assisted on the lower end of the spectrum. YOU are the one putting him in that category. Let's go back to the assisted FGA numbers. You had a flawed look on overall FGA. It needs to be seperated to 2FGA & 3FGA:
Looking at 2FGA (p36):
last year - 4.8 2PM | 2.53 assisted (52.7%) | 2.27 unassisted (47.3%)
this year - 3.4 2PM | 1.88 assisted (55.2%) | 1.52 unassisted (44.8%)
Difference - 29% overall decrease in 2PM volume | 25.7% decrease in assisted volume | 33% decrease in unassisted volume

So to go back to your original point - NO. His decrease isn't solely on unassisted FGA. It's across the board 30% decrease in volume for 2 point shots. Yes he's getting more assisted field goals overall (No sh*t he is) because he's bumped his 3 point volume.

Yes he is being assisted on a tad higher portion of his 2 point shots but 3% is NOT a significant difference (0.1 FGM swing). You comparing him to DRob is disingenuous. DRob has a 84% assisted rate on 2 point attempts. Here is the career 2 point assisted rate for the people he's been compared to Niko (67%), McDermott (81%), Korver (85%), Klay thompson (70%). He is NOT like those highly assisted player currently. Stop trying to box him in.

3) Bigs get assisted for 2p shots by getting near the rim, something Lauri rarely does. Gafford and Wendell get a higher percentage of their looks assisted because they are getting easy shots next to the rim.

Again. See the post guy vs perimeter guy roles above. Something Lauri rarely does because IT'S NOT HIS ROLE.

Overall, its funny that we look at this number completely differently. The best players are on the low end for %assisted. Lebron is around 30%. Doncic is around 20%. Kawhi is around 30%. I thought we wanted Lauri to be a star, not a 6'10" McDermott. The fact that his assisted percentage is so high is a bad thing. Dude needs to take the ball and create for himself. Its not up to others.

Obviously Lauri is going to disappoint you if you expect him to become a point forward shot creator/playmaker. Noone has generational wing expectations for him. That is not my expectations from him. Lauri is a SHOT FINISHER and tertiary creator. There are MULTITUDES of big man stars that have higher assisted rates than him but you want to put him in the wing box just because he can shoot it really well (which you also don't acknowledge ). You are penalizing him for being a high volume 3 point shooter.

Here are his per 36 minutes, rookie vs this year:
2018 18.4p 9.1r 1.4a 0.7b 1.5to 43.4%fg 36.2%3p
2020 18.3p 7.9r 1.9a 0.6b 1.9to 41.9%fg 34.7%3p
That's not development. That is outright regression.

tsk tsk tsk. Again with the season numbers without context. Development is different from counting statistics. I can give you random numbers too without context.

2019: 20p .6b 1.6to 46FG% 35 3p%
2020: 21p .5b 2.7to 43FG% 27 3p%

Would you look at that, Jimmy has regressed this year!!!

Before someone points out that he has been playing better lately, that's his thing. He has good months and then he tapers off, per 36:
Jan of 2018 19.4p 9.5r 1.6a 0.9b 1.2to 47.8%fg 43.2%3p
Dec of 2019 19.9p 6.9r 1.5a 0.8b 1.7to 50.8%fg 41.6%3p

So, yeah, his best month of his rookie year was basically the same as his best month this year. No development.

Yes his numbers mirror his rookie season's best... when his usage is the same as his rookie season. The improvements (development) comes from

A) sustaining that level of play for longer than a month -- We saw the development last year over a bigger sample size than a month when he was putting up 21/10 for half the season.

B) Improving the "hot" level of play in short stretches. -- This is what we haven't seen but there is only so much you can do with a limited amount of shots. Do you want him to be shooting 70% FG and 60% 3p instead? 50/40 shooting splits are impressive in themselves

C) Bump up the usage and see if efficiency can be maintained -- this is what we saw in february. His efficiency did dip but he put up bigger numbers and had a better impact.

From those numbers last year, Lauri's numbers have definitely regressed. So you do a deeper dive. What's changed? .... maybe his usage? Why would his usage be down?

A) He doesn't have the skills -> your take but that's foolish because he's already shown capabilities at that level. Why would you not want to explore and see if he can sustain that for a season?

B) Injured -> But in your mind oblique injuries and ankle rolls are fake news

C) Team System -> Ditto as B. In your mind every situation is the same.


The discussion is not if his "numbers" have improved. They have definitely decreased from season's past. The discussion is has "Lauri" the player improved. To that I do think he has. Not as much as we want but there have been small refinements to his game. I see better consistency from him. Instead of going up and down every game (rookie season) or 1 good game in 5 (like earlier in this season) it's recently been more like 1 bad game every 5.

What's missing is the 2pa volume which is tied with usage. What we don't know for certain is if Lauri can handle that usage for a full season. So far we don't have evidence of that with these reoccurring random injuries. We can have a discussion if Lauri will ever see a sustained consistently high usage because right now he seems "injury prone" but that's a different discussion.

[coldfish]

That said, he still has the opportunity to drive when he catches the ball of a screen and he virtually never does. I don't know what is up with him but his lack of FGA is on him.

This is the system. Idk why you don't get it. Maybe it's because it goes against "hurdurr Lauri bad! He no good!" You blatantly just ignore it. That's where just looking at numbers are flawed. YOU NEED THE CONTEXT. That's like saying climate change is not a thing because it gets cold in the wintertime. I have posted this before. Fleming's system is 4 perimeter players and one big man. Lauri is being used as a perimeter player. Here is the perimeter player's role:

2) Fill 4 perimeter spots at all times (there will be times where guys are involved in dribble penetration, etc). Once you pass the ball as a perimeter guy and you have to go back outside. Corner, foul-line extended, high elbow gives you six ossible places for those four guys to be - and only those spots..

And this is the post-guy role (taken by WCJ).:

3) Post-guy rules: if You're on the ball side, post above the block. Opposite the ball, then go behind the defense, as far down as possible to get the best spacing.

3a) The bigs step to the short corner inside the three, if there's dribble penetration in order to increase the spacing and the holes in the defense. If there's a baseline drive, the big has to use the free-throw line-extended as his goal. If there are guys who are not good from that spot there are things that can be done to make that work anyway.

I won't bother with replying to the rest. You have dropped down into insults and are the third Lauri homer to do so. I held my fire before but I won't now.

In the US, at some time around age 9 to 11 you can no longer run fixed plays as part of your offense. Defenses will figure out what is coming after the first time you run it and your plays will get stuffed all game long. Around that age, coaches switch to sets or motion offenses. Both of which are a series of reads and decisions. A set play is simpler and runs to a conclusion whereas a motion offense continues without end with players reading, moving, picking etc as the play continues.

Absolutely no one, at least in the last 50 years, runs an offense where a guy comes off a screen and has no options. NO ONE. You are completely and utterly wrong. You are so wrong that your quote to me that was supposed to say I was wrong actually refers to the options I am talking about. You didn't even bother to read your own supporting evidence.

When Lauri comes around a screen or gets the ball on the perimeter, he has the option to pass, shoot or drive. Sometimes call for a pick, just like the other perimeter players. Its his choice, not the coaches, what he does there. He almost always chooses to either shoot or swing pass. That's on him.

[PaKii94]

That said, he still has the opportunity to drive when he catches the ball of a screen and he virtually never does. I don't know what is up with him but his lack of FGA is on him.

This is the system. Idk why you don't get it. Maybe it's because it goes against "hurdurr Lauri bad! He no good!" You blatantly just ignore it. That's where just looking at numbers are flawed. YOU NEED THE CONTEXT. That's like saying climate change is not a thing because it gets cold in the wintertime. I have posted this before. Fleming's system is 4 perimeter players and one big man. Lauri is being used as a perimeter player. Here is the perimeter player's role:

2) Fill 4 perimeter spots at all times (there will be times where guys are involved in dribble penetration, etc). Once you pass the ball as a perimeter guy and you have to go back outside. Corner, foul-line extended, high elbow gives you six ossible places for those four guys to be - and only those spots..

And this is the post-guy role (taken by WCJ).:

3) Post-guy rules: if You're on the ball side, post above the block. Opposite the ball, then go behind the defense, as far down as possible to get the best spacing.

3a) The bigs step to the short corner inside the three, if there's dribble penetration in order to increase the spacing and the holes in the defense. If there's a baseline drive, the big has to use the free-throw line-extended as his goal. If there are guys who are not good from that spot there are things that can be done to make that work anyway.

I won't bother with replying to the rest. You have dropped down into insults and are the third Lauri homer to do so. I held my fire before but I won't now.

In the US, at some time around age 9 to 11 you can no longer run fixed plays as part of your offense. Defenses will figure out what is coming after the first time you run it and your plays will get stuffed all game long. Around that age, coaches switch to sets or motion offenses. Both of which are a series of reads and decisions. A set play is simpler and runs to a conclusion whereas a motion offense continues without end with players reading, moving, picking etc as the play continues.

Absolutely no one, at least in the last 50 years, runs an offense where a guy comes off a screen and has no options. NO ONE. You are completely and utterly wrong. You are so wrong that your quote to me that was supposed to say I was wrong actually refers to the options I am talking about. You didn't even bother to read your own supporting evidence.

When Lauri comes around a screen or gets the ball on the perimeter, he has the option to pass, shoot or drive. Sometimes call for a pick, just like the other perimeter players. Its his choice, not the coaches, what he does there. He almost always chooses to either shoot or swing pass. That's on him.

You won't bother replying to the rest because that's where the meat lies and proves you wrong and you don't want to address it. The reason it's come down to "insults" is because you are stubborn and keep parroting the same sh*t and not actually looking into it.

Am I saying run set play after set play? NO. There is a reason why Nets running the same system with role players last year was a better offense. There is a reason why the same system being run last February with g league players was #1 for a month. I am advocating for this damn system but it isn't being run WELL.

He almost always chooses to either shoot or swing pass. That's on him.

YES BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT PLAY FOR THE SYSTEM. READ THE DAMN LINK. There is a reason why Lauri's advanced rating is higher than Lavine's who is "carrying" the team. He doesn't put up contested shots like our high usage scorer.

The whole premise of this system is repeated drive and kicks to continually breakdown the defense until there is A) an open 3 point shot or B) open layup & dunk at the rim. This repeated drive and kicks should be like 2-3 times a play ATLEAST which should generally be enough defensive rotations where there is a breakdown in the defense resulting in a open shot. If somehow the other team plays EXCELLENT defense and the shot clock is down, THAT'S when you want to put up a shot even if it's contested. However this should be a far far deprioritized option when there is no other opportunity left. That's why the initial reports were "Mid range is bad no mid range". The limitations on mid range shots is inherently built into the system if you are playing the right way since they would be last resort shots.

Lauri is not a breakdown the defense with dribble moves kind of guy. His role AS A PERIMETER PLAYER is

A) space the floor and shoot the open shot when he's open. That's what he's doing with his increased 3 point volume.

B) Drive if contested (which contrary to your belief, he has been driving when contested at the 3 and this is where the text about dribble driving you seem to think proves your point applies) but PASS/KICK BACK OUT if the paint is clogged. This is where your sticking point is. You want him to shoot over people but that's not what the system is asking from him. It's telling him to start the next motion to scramble the defense more. Once he passes out, as a perimeter player, his role is to go back out to the line and SPACE. I.e. pass and move back out.

If the lane is open, then he should go up and put the basket in... which he is doing... which is where getting assisted comes from. If this system was running at 100% efficiency, 100% of the FGM would be assisted. Assisted field goals AREN'T a bad thing. The goal of a good system is to generate those. This is where Boylen's pie in the sky 35 assists a game objective comes from. That's why it's called equal opportunity.

The reason our offense is tanking so bad is because the offense isn't being run correctly from the tip. The first action should always be drive and kick.

The problem with Sato is he isn't enough of a dribble penetration guy to start the defensive scramble. The defense remains set, the ball is passed back out and we are at square zero with 15 seconds on the clock. If you have noticed, the bulls play a lot better when Sato is aggressive because then the defense respect him more causing more scrambling.

The ball now reaches Zach. Zach while very physically gifted, is not BBIQ gifted. He just hasn't been able to consistently make the right read/play at the right time. He might break down the defense... and then throw up a contested shot against 3 players in the point or on the other side, if he does try making the pass, with him there is always a half second of hesitation which closes his window of opportunity to continue the play. Net result? A bad shot OR back to square zero with sub 10 seconds on the clock.

[ To limit his lack of BBIQ, that's why I advocate for zach to play an off ball scorer role (He is excellent in shot making) Unfortunately, we would see the same thing happen to Zach that happens to Lauri because again, the play is broken from the start but this time we would have less of a drive and kick presence. OPJ was crucial in this because he was a good initiator in the offense last february and can make the right reads consistently (He was the main reason the bulls offense flourished then) which pushed Lavine more into a finishing role. Lauri & Lavine both flourished in the finishing role then. ]

Now we are in scramble mode. The players have in their mind "no mid range" so now what we're left with is a hurried contested 3 or shot at the rim. NOT good offense.

The bulls get away with sloppily running the system because the opposing defense doesn't respect the bulls but we have consistently seen the trend at the end of quarters/3rd quarter/end of the game where the offense just falls apart because the defense is now tightened and the plays are continually broken.

This usually ends up with Zach hero ball because the bulls waste too much time TRYING to make the play but our initializing guards fail the play. The bulls HAVE improved in running the system because earlier in the season Zach's hero ball showed up early in the second half and now it's more near the end of games.

^ In all of the above, Lauri is marginalized because he passes the ball when he gets it initially (the right play)... but never gets it again (i.e. lower usage) because the progressions never happen.

Since the players don't seem to be able to run the system consistently, yes as you said sets have been implemented to try to jump start the offense but that doesn't solve the root cause of the problem. I am not advocating for set after set play. I AGREE with your basic premise, I just don't agree that it's on Lauri.

Lauri as a finisher should be involved at like 10% into the play as a passer (help the defense scramble) and 90% into the play as a finisher (finish the play). Unfortunately the play itself never gets to 30% at the 2nd drive and kick because it keeps breaking and getting reset so we see him passing a lot more and finishing a lot less. For better or for worse, Lauri doesn't stray from the team game so he doesn't force the issue but that's also why you see higher ratings for him compared to Zach even though zach can get his own.

The solution to this? We need a higher IQ initiator who can scramble defenses. Unfortunately, those kind of players don't grow on trees... and I don't see any trades where we can get one for cheap without given up the mismanaged talent we have. Ironically, the bulls did have a cheap option available this offseason: DRose



^That's how you provide context to numbers. Not Lauri's numbers = bad, but system = good, so Lauri = bad. Basketball is a team game. Especially with the read option offenses, it's about a cascade of right decisions. Lauri's role is at the bottom of that cascade.That's why Boylen said the "learn to crawl/walk before running" crap last season. Maybe he should revert back to that and slowly bring them back up. I can't fault Lauri if it's f**ked up from the beginning. That's why when I said he's improved, it's improvement with consideration to the system being run and overall team performance which you can't see by just looking at overall season counting stats

[transplant]

IMO, this team's roster is better than their record. They have, for stretches, played some beautiful basketball, particularly on the defensive end. However, when the game is on the line in the 2nd half, they often look overmatched, particularly against better teams.

Part of their problem is that, in nearly every game, their opponent has the best player in the building. IMO, another part of their problem is that they believe that they're at a disadvantage in terms of their head coach...this can be a real problem and/or be used as an excuse.

[coldfish]

You won't bother replying to the rest because that's where the meat lies and proves you wrong and you don't want to address it. The reason it's come down to "insults" is because you are stubborn and keep parroting the same sh*t and not actually looking into it.

Am I saying run set play after set play? NO. There is a reason why Nets running the same system with role players last year was a better offense. There is a reason why the same system being run last February with g league players was #1 for a month. I am advocating for this damn system but it isn't being run WELL.

You know what, I don't even get where you are going with this:

The whole premise of this system is repeated drive and kicks to continually breakdown the defense until there is A) an open 3 point shot or B) open layup & dunk at the rim. This repeated drive and kicks should be like 2-3 times a play ATLEAST which should generally be enough defensive rotations where there is a breakdown in the defense resulting in a open shot. If somehow the other team plays EXCELLENT defense and the shot clock is down, THAT'S when you want to put up a shot even if it's contested. However this should be a far far deprioritized option when there is no other opportunity left. That's why the initial reports were "Mid range is bad no mid range". The limitations on mid range shots is inherently built into the system if you are playing the right way since they would be last resort shots.

Lauri is not a breakdown the defense with dribble moves kind of guy. His role AS A PERIMETER PLAYER is

A) space the floor and shoot the open shot when he's open. That's what he's doing with his increased 3 point volume.

B) Drive if contested (which contrary to your belief, he has been driving when contested at the 3 and this is where the text about dribble driving you seem to think proves your point applies) but PASS/KICK BACK OUT if the paint is clogged. This is where your sticking point is. You want him to shoot over people but that's not what the system is asking from him. It's telling him to start the next motion to scramble the defense more. Once he passes out, as a perimeter player, his role is to go back out to the line and SPACE. I.e. pass and move back out.

If the lane is open, then he should go up and put the basket in... which he is doing... which is where getting assisted comes from. If this system was running at 100% efficiency, 100% of the FGM would be assisted. Assisted field goals AREN'T a bad thing. The goal of a good system is to generate those. This is where Boylen's pie in the sky 35 assists a game objective comes from. That's why it's called equal opportunity.

I mean, you are saying the same exact thing I have always said. Lauri is used as a perimeter player. Its his job to get the ball and read whether to shoot, drive, call for a pick or just pass it. He doesn't drive enough and that's on him. You know if he drives and scores its an unassisted shot, right?

And yes, he is capable of being a drive with the ball guy:

Watch on YouTube

That was all in one game. That's how he should be playing and if he decided to do it, Februlauri would come back.

[coldfish]

Side note:

https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/Offense/offensiveTheory.html

What is an offense?

An offense is your method to score baskets and get open shots against your opponent. Most coaches consider their offense to be a continuous motion or a play that can be run over and over again. It's common to have more than one offensive set, usually a primary offense and a secondary offense.

In addition, most basketball coaches will have a variety of set plays at their disposal. Set plays are usually just run through one time in special situations. For example, you might want to run a set play at the end of the game or when your offense is stagnant and you really need a basket. Then, if the set play doesn't work, you can flow into your primary offense.

I think that a lot of people get tied up in the terminology:
Set play: A fixed play with predetermined movements. Only used after timeouts or in game critical situations.
Offensive set: A flexible play where there are lots of options but it runs to a conclusion and then resets
Motion offense: A free form offense with a bunch of rules that runs continuously until you shoot or the clock ends.

The Bulls ran a motion offense last year. They started in that this year but added in several offensive sets with fixed off ball screens. From what I can tell, they still run 50% motion offense. Most of Lauri's points in the video above came from the motion offense and him just deciding to drive.

[PaKii94]

You won't bother replying to the rest because that's where the meat lies and proves you wrong and you don't want to address it. The reason it's come down to "insults" is because you are stubborn and keep parroting the same sh*t and not actually looking into it.

Am I saying run set play after set play? NO. There is a reason why Nets running the same system with role players last year was a better offense. There is a reason why the same system being run last February with g league players was #1 for a month. I am advocating for this damn system but it isn't being run WELL.

You know what, I don't even get where you are going with this:

The whole premise of this system is repeated drive and kicks to continually breakdown the defense until there is A) an open 3 point shot or B) open layup & dunk at the rim. This repeated drive and kicks should be like 2-3 times a play ATLEAST which should generally be enough defensive rotations where there is a breakdown in the defense resulting in a open shot. If somehow the other team plays EXCELLENT defense and the shot clock is down, THAT'S when you want to put up a shot even if it's contested. However this should be a far far deprioritized option when there is no other opportunity left. That's why the initial reports were "Mid range is bad no mid range". The limitations on mid range shots is inherently built into the system if you are playing the right way since they would be last resort shots.

Lauri is not a breakdown the defense with dribble moves kind of guy. His role AS A PERIMETER PLAYER is

A) space the floor and shoot the open shot when he's open. That's what he's doing with his increased 3 point volume.

B) Drive if contested (which contrary to your belief, he has been driving when contested at the 3 and this is where the text about dribble driving you seem to think proves your point applies) but PASS/KICK BACK OUT if the paint is clogged. This is where your sticking point is. You want him to shoot over people but that's not what the system is asking from him. It's telling him to start the next motion to scramble the defense more. Once he passes out, as a perimeter player, his role is to go back out to the line and SPACE. I.e. pass and move back out.

If the lane is open, then he should go up and put the basket in... which he is doing... which is where getting assisted comes from. If this system was running at 100% efficiency, 100% of the FGM would be assisted. Assisted field goals AREN'T a bad thing. The goal of a good system is to generate those. This is where Boylen's pie in the sky 35 assists a game objective comes from. That's why it's called equal opportunity.

I mean, you are saying the same exact thing I have always said. Lauri is used as a perimeter player. Its his job to get the ball and read whether to shoot, drive, call for a pick or just pass it. He doesn't drive enough and that's on him. You know if he drives and scores its an unassisted shot, right?

And yes, he is capable of being a drive with the ball guy:

Watch on YouTube

That was all in one game. That's how he should be playing and if he decided to do it, Februlauri would come back.

1. I am pretty sure 2-3 dribble drives & scores from a kick out are considered assists. Could be wrong but those should be considered atleast psuedo assisted since they were possible due to defensive breakdown vs shot creation.

2. I agree we are talking about the same thing. My point is to include timing of the passes vs shots & quality of the decision making into the discussion since it is a team game. I was trying to elaborate on "when is the right time to pass out vs right time to put up a shot". We know he's a capable drive with the ball guy AND we know he's not an idiot, so why isn't he doing it? Because of the system. I am finishing up work now but I can get get into more depth later.

3. lol that video is helpful for MY point. Only 6-8 points of his 35 came from drives within the half court motion offense (and those were the correct reads at that time). I will breakdown that too later. Those attempts are decreased when there is legitimate defense being played (because then the offense isn't running correctly)

What's missing from Lauri's game currently as seen from that game is the bringing the ball up in transition aspect of it. That was another 6-8 points. That was greatly decreased when Lauri was running away from the ball in November (and putting up pathetic attempts at the rim when he did attempt a transition drive) but it hasn't been reintegrated during his current stretch. I do want to see him doing that again.

[coldfish]

3. lol that video is helpful for MY point. Only 6-8 points of his 35 came from drives within the half court motion offense (and those were the correct reads at that time). I will breakdown that too later. Those attempts are decreased when there is legitimate defense being played (because then the offense isn't running correctly)

4s motion offense, he just decided to go
33s motion offense pick set for him, he drove
45s motion offense, same position as 4s, he just decided to go
57s motion offense wing quick drive

20s PnR he decided to roll, his decision, assisted 2p
1:39 PnR decided to roll, his decision, assisted 2p

Again, I agree with you. 8 points from half court motion offense. This doesn't include his misses either.

I will add that he rolled twice and got two more easy looks. He virtually never rolls nowadays or slips screens. He almost always pops.

Regardless, he went to the basket a lot that game. You add 12 points to every game with 8 of them being unassisted and he starts looking like an elite player.

I also agree that him bringing the ball up the court is missing lately. Might be tied to his defensive rebounding.

I'm not even sure where our fundamental disagreement is. I think we both think Lauri is capable of being an elite offensive player. Where we seem to disagree is on the root cause of him NOT being that player. I believe its Lauri's decision making process. You seem to believe its factors other than Lauri. Amirite?

[PaKii94]

I also agree that him bringing the ball up the court is missing lately. Might be tied to his defensive rebounding.

I'm not even sure where our fundamental disagreement is. I think we both think Lauri is capable of being an elite offensive player. Where we seem to disagree is on the root cause of him NOT being that player. I believe its Lauri's decision making process. You seem to believe its factors other than Lauri. Amirite?

I also agree that him bringing the ball up the court is missing lately. Might be tied to his defensive rebounding.

I do think that's tied to def rebounding also. I think boylen mentioned last year that in this offense, if you grab the ball on the defensive end, you are allowed to bring it up. Lauri hasn't been grabbing those boards.

I'm not even sure where our fundamental disagreement is. I think we both think Lauri is capable of being an elite offensive player. Where we seem to disagree is on the root cause of him NOT being that player. I believe its Lauri's decision making process. You seem to believe its factors other than Lauri. Amirite

Yes. That's the fundemental difference. I do think Lauri knows what he's doing. It's pretty obvious to see (to me anyway) when Lauri isn't feeling right he plays passively/"soft" out on the perimeter to save himself but try to help the team. He's back to staying on the passive perimeter little boy Lauri mode these past few games after the ankle sprain.

Unfortunately him getting injured has been a relatively constant thing for him. I feel like he doesn't go a month without injuring himself. It also doesn't help that any small injury diminishes his margin of error on defense from "average" to "very below average".

Again it's very telling that Boylen still hasn't had any negative words so far this season for Lauri. None of it is "we need Lauri to be more aggressive blah blah blah" This isn't fake love.

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I'm kind of cringing when I read this stuff from Lauri. He sounds painfully naive.

He's focusing on stupid and irrelevant stuff like "playing 82 games" when he should be directing 100% of his mental energy toward improving his skills (especially ballhandling). That will bring him the big money deals in the future and help his team, not some ancient memory of him playing 82 games for the awful 2019-2020 Bulls.

[PaKii94]

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I'm kind of cringing when I read this stuff from Lauri. He sounds painfully naive.

He's focusing on stupid and irrelevant stuff like "playing 82 games" when he should be directing 100% of his mental energy toward improving his skills (especially ballhandling). That will bring him the big money deals in the future and help his team, not some ancient memory of him playing 82 games for the awful 2019-2020 Bulls.

guess he hasn't caught up to the load management era