Bears 2019/20; George McCaskey is on the clock

[Jeffster81]

And if the bolded happens, there is no justification in keeping Nagy AND Pace.

I think Pace absolutely needs to fire Nagy to have any hope of keeping his job. I place more blame on Pace than Nagy in some respects, but I can understand why he did what he did. Pace went all in on Trubisky being a great QB, if it worked, the Bears may have had a shot at the superbowl.

It didn't work, and when it was clear to most people it wouldn't work, he doubled down on it a few years rather than pivoting to a new plan. That's not necessarily awful, it was kind of like betting on post ACL Rose, you were pretty sure it would fail, but you didn't really have a better option other than starting a rebuild earlier.

Pace has the opposite team building approach I would have. My approach would be to always be trading down, always acquiring more assets. Pace has been aggressive about trading out of the draft to get better current players. I haven't really studied the NFL enough to know how well my approach would work historically though. I generally believe that the draft is closer to a "random walk" and that people overvalue their hunches too much.

The team cannot afford to let Pace sacrifice picks to trade up for random dudes anymore, let alone Trubisky. There are too many needs. Not that they ever could afford it. That has to stop.

Did NOT need to trade up to get Trubisky. To me that is more unforgivable than passing Mahomes and Watson.

[Susan]

I don't understand the logic of keeping Pace. He said it himself after he draft Mitch, his legacy and job will be tied to that QB. And it hasn't worked out.

His drafting has been mediocre. He misses on his high picks, and finds value later in the draft on defense. But certainly nothing worth keeping a guy. I bet finding a good player in the draft one out of every 3-4 picks can sum up most gms.

But worst, no one wants to talk about his complete lack of moves in free agency. He had one of the worst offenses last year, and his response to throw a ton of money at a defensive end, a QB that was no longer wanted in JACKSONVILLE, and a tight end the Packers didn't want. It's unacceptable. The idea that he thought somehow magically the offense was going to get better was insane. He didn't do anything! FREE AGENCY ALONE is the reason he should be fired. He has missed BIGTIME in that area.

Hicks, Robinson and Trevathan all were good to great signings.

Quinn was bad but Pace listened to Nagy, got his guy the egg is on Nagy's face because Mitch is better than Foles and Nagy's system is trash.

Jimmy G was clearly not the long-term answer but was a better value than Greg Olsen based on production and Jimmy has actually out produced Austin Hooper who got a massive deal this off-season. He's been a good bridge to Kmet this season. Ebron has had more production and a sightly cheaper contract but he's been playing in a better/more stable environment.

[thedarkstark]

I've been vocal about Nagy sucking since day 1, I knew his gimmicky bull**** was a farce and it would only be a matter of time before the league figured it out, he's a terrible coach everyone sees that now.

At this point though I dont see how any sane person can be sticking up for Pace, I gave him the benefit of the doubt but his blunders have been monumental.

I blame alot of the personnel moves on Nagy, but Pace still has to greenlight them. He has missed on 3 qbs, 2 head coaches and too many round 1-3 draft picks to count. Even the Mack trade is starting to look bad in hindsight.

1 playoff appearance in 6 seasons, 1 winning season, 0 playoff wins - that is Paces resume

[fleet]

Vic Fangio was the engine of the team over the years. Any success had to do with him more than anything else.

[dougthonus]

If we are replacing the quarterback, how the hell is anybody OK with Pace choosing? He has to be gone.

Foles was Nagy's call, Glennon was a low risk signing that they were able to cut with zero cap ramifications the following season. There's zero defending Trubisky.

They are all Pace's call. The coach doesn't trade for players. The coach may have asked for Foles, but Pace agreed and made it happen. He's ultimately culpable for all roster decisions, if he picked guys to fit his head coach and his head coach is a failure, then that's a double failure on him for doubling down on a bad coach and his decisions rather than firing the bad coach and making his own. Pace owns the results here no matter how you slice it.

Granted, I don't care so much about Foles, the only thing I said at the time and will say now is that Foles wasn't necessarily better than Trubisky to me (not a clear upgrade) and we paid a fourth rounder to get a non clear upgrade when we could have gotten similar caliber guys without giving up picks. In the end, Foles and all those other guys whom were options have been bad, and I don't think the others would necessarily have been better, but we wouldn't have been worse off with Dalton or Newton and would have an extra pick.

Pace's willingness to give up draft capital is probably my biggest problem with him.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Bears need QB. Getting one should be priority under all costs. I think this experiment last few years under Pace answers that question. There is no point building your team if you dont have QB. You can change coach, get elite FA, get good group of players cost controlled but if you dont have QB you need reset button immediatly.

They need an OLine. They have no one there.

Back in the ancient 1970s we had Jim Finks as the GM from 1977-1983. He was a "build from the lines" first kind of GM. Drafted guys like Ted Albrecht in 1977, Dan Hampton in 1979, Keith Van Horne in 1981. He loaded up on some linebackers too. Singletary in 81, Otis Wilson in 80, Al Harris in 79. Then came the greatest Draft in Bears history in 1983. Finks's last Year as GM. Jimbo Covert, Willie Gault, Mike Richardson, Dave Duerson, Tom Thayer, Richard Dent and Mark Bortz. I was not always enamored taking linemen every year but he set up the Foundation that eventually created the best Bears team any of us now living will ever see. Having playmakers makes you a great team IF you have the foundation properly laid. But great wide outs do you no good if your QB doesn't have 3 seconds to drop back and throw. And if the O Line can't open a keyhole to develop any consistent running game. Whoever takes over for Pace needs to fix the O-Line and draft some D-Line back-up help. Our defense becomes second rate when we lose Goldman and Hicks to injury, which seems to happen every year now. We probably shouldn't even waste a pick on a QB this year. Just upgrade both lines for the next 2 drafts and live with mediocrity at QB until we have the groundwork laid to be able to put a QB in a position to succeed.

This

We need to build in the trenches and stop giving up draft picks to move up.

[Dresden]

They need an OLine. They have no one there.

Back in the ancient 1970s we had Jim Finks as the GM from 1977-1983. He was a "build from the lines" first kind of GM. Drafted guys like Ted Albrecht in 1977, Dan Hampton in 1979, Keith Van Horne in 1981. He loaded up on some linebackers too. Singletary in 81, Otis Wilson in 80, Al Harris in 79. Then came the greatest Draft in Bears history in 1983. Finks's last Year as GM. Jimbo Covert, Willie Gault, Mike Richardson, Dave Duerson, Tom Thayer, Richard Dent and Mark Bortz. I was not always enamored taking linemen every year but he set up the Foundation that eventually created the best Bears team any of us now living will ever see. Having playmakers makes you a great team IF you have the foundation properly laid. But great wide outs do you no good if your QB doesn't have 3 seconds to drop back and throw. And if the O Line can't open a keyhole to develop any consistent running game. Whoever takes over for Pace needs to fix the O-Line and draft some D-Line back-up help. Our defense becomes second rate when we lose Goldman and Hicks to injury, which seems to happen every year now. We probably shouldn't even waste a pick on a QB this year. Just upgrade both lines for the next 2 drafts and live with mediocrity at QB until we have the groundwork laid to be able to put a QB in a position to succeed.

This

We need to build in the trenches and stop giving up draft picks to move up.

I agree, too. I'm old enough to remember the mess the Bears were in before Finks took over- even though we had Walter Payton. Finks built from the ground up, and it paid off for at least a decade. How they ever botched letting that team fall apart, I'll never know. Should have kept everyone there, and just found another qb when McMahon kept getting hurt. Instead they went with Tomczak and Flutie.

[Dresden]

Greatest draft in Bears history though has to be the year they got both Butkus and Sayers....

[dougthonus]

Hicks, Robinson and Trevathan all were good to great signings.

Quinn was bad but Pace listened to Nagy, got his guy the egg is on Nagy's face because Mitch is better than Foles and Nagy's system is trash.

Jimmy G was clearly not the long-term answer but was a better value than Greg Olsen based on production and Jimmy has actually out produced Austin Hooper who got a massive deal this off-season. He's been a good bridge to Kmet this season. Ebron has had more production and a sightly cheaper contract but he's been playing in a better/more stable environment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is not a player on this roster that Pace didn't sign to their current contract is there? Pace owns the results of where the roster is now. The roster quality lies at Pace's feet regardless of whether or not he found some good players. I mean congratulations, he didn't whiff on all 50 some odd guys he signed to contracts, hooray.

The overall talent level isn't where it needs to be and that sits with Pace and no one else. He is the decision maker.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Chase Claypool, Kmet's college teammate and TE/WR hybrid, was drafted 6 spots after Kmet and looks so much better. That'll be another loss for Pace.

[Pax for Prez]

Greatest draft in Bears history though has to be the year they got both Butkus and Sayers....

Maybe 1965 Draft has more star power, but 1983 is close also with 2 HOF and 7 Super Bowl starters.

Round Pick Player Position College Notes
1 6 Jim Covert * † Offensive tackle Pittsburgh
1 18 Willie Gault Wide receiver Tennessee
2 33 Mike Richardson Cornerback Arizona State
3 64 Dave Duerson * Safety Notre Dame
4 91 Tom Thayer Center Notre Dame
4 107 Pat Dunsmore Tight end Drake
8 203 Richard Dent † Defensive end Tennessee State
8 219 Mark Bortz * Guard Iowa
9 230 Rob Fada Guard Pittsburgh
9 235 Mark Zavagnin Linebacker Notre Dame
10 256 Anthony Hutchison Running back Texas Tech
11 286 Gary Worthy Running back Wilmington (OH)
12 313 Oliver Williams Wide receiver Illinois

[Susan]

If we are replacing the quarterback, how the hell is anybody OK with Pace choosing? He has to be gone.

Foles was Nagy's call, Glennon was a low risk signing that they were able to cut with zero cap ramifications the following season. There's zero defending Trubisky.

They are all Pace's call. The coach doesn't trade for players. The coach may have asked for Foles, but Pace agreed and made it happen. He's ultimately culpable for all roster decisions, if he picked guys to fit his head coach and his head coach is a failure, then that's a double failure on him for doubling down on a bad coach and his decisions rather than firing the bad coach and making his own. Pace owns the results here no matter how you slice it.

Granted, I don't care so much about Foles, the only thing I said at the time and will say now is that Foles wasn't necessarily better than Trubisky to me (not a clear upgrade) and we paid a fourth rounder to get a non clear upgrade when we could have gotten similar caliber guys without giving up picks. In the end, Foles and all those other guys whom were options have been bad, and I don't think the others would necessarily have been better, but we wouldn't have been worse off with Dalton or Newton and would have an extra pick.

Pace's willingness to give up draft capital is probably my biggest problem with him.

If you think that trading for Nick Foles disqualifies Pace from ever selecting a QB again, go right ahead. It gave Nagy what he wanted (a guy who knew his system) and cost us a 4th rounder + backup QB money. Turns out, Nagy's system is a fraud and we've got a pretty decent backup QB on a decent salary for the next two years.

Dalton has elite playmakers and sucks but he signed his contract after the draft, in hindsight it would have been nice to have him for a cheap contract for sure but clearly Nagy had influence on the decision and Pace went out and got Nagy's guy.

Either way, Dalton would have sucked here because Nagy sucks and the argument would have been the same - you can't let Pace select the next QB because he whiffed on Dalton even though it would have been a pretty minor/negligible move.

The Foles move didn't set back the franchise. A good GM works in concert with his head coach and turns out the head coach is a fraud.

[MalagaBulls]

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[Susan]

Hicks, Robinson and Trevathan all were good to great signings.

Quinn was bad but Pace listened to Nagy, got his guy the egg is on Nagy's face because Mitch is better than Foles and Nagy's system is trash.

Jimmy G was clearly not the long-term answer but was a better value than Greg Olsen based on production and Jimmy has actually out produced Austin Hooper who got a massive deal this off-season. He's been a good bridge to Kmet this season. Ebron has had more production and a sightly cheaper contract but he's been playing in a better/more stable environment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is not a player on this roster that Pace didn't sign to their current contract is there? Pace owns the results of where the roster is now. The roster quality lies at Pace's feet regardless of whether or not he found some good players. I mean congratulations, he didn't whiff on all 50 some odd guys he signed to contracts, hooray.

The overall talent level isn't where it needs to be and that sits with Pace and no one else. He is the decision maker.

Are the Bears a well coached team?

Relative to other free agent TEs, how is Jimmy's production?

Here's his numbers on the year:
13th most receptions
5th most TDs
22nd most yards
12th highest TE salary with just $3M guaranteed next season

Not to mention we're still paying Trey Burton who Nagy exiled off of the team. He's been pretty decent on the Colts.

My point is: Pace has given Nagy talent - Nagy's done an absolute **** job of maximizing that talent. The post I responded to said Pace has been bad with FA with Jimmy as a terrible signing, sorry for I dunno, actually looking at the stats and the market from this previous offseason.

[stl705]

Not sure I understand this Nagy vs Pace talk... they both suck and both will be gone, thank god. Whoever sucked more shouldn’t mean didley other than they are both gone.

Pace has ran out of chances, from the Mack trade blowing up in his face, to choosing 3 QBs in his tenure: Glennon, Trubisky, Foles.

Looking at a coach, someone mentioned Nagy strength is team culture? How do u figure that lol, what exactly has been the Bears culture?? Don’t confuse culture with Identity. Pat Fitzy has brought both a winning culture, and winning identity to Northwestern. Any talk of him not being a good enough coach is ludicris.

Also ludicris is the notion we need some genius offensive mind. I hate to burst any bubbles, but football isn’t rocket science. There’s a reason the pros are stealing the offensive schemes from the college ranks and it isn’t difficulty.

A d coach like fitzy or someone else would be much more beneficial than an offensive nobody who is determined to pass it 50 times a game with **** for QB.

[TheGOATRises007]

The decision to not take Mahomes will haunt this franchise for 10+ years.

[dougthonus]

If you think that trading for Nick Foles disqualifies Pace from ever selecting a QB again, go right ahead.

I didn't say that did I?

I said, you can't keep pushing all of the blame for roster decisions on the head coach. That is literally Pace's job to make roster decisions. He owns all of them. Whether he did it to please Nagy or not, he owns the decision to please Nagy or even employ Nagy at all.

The Foles move didn't set back the franchise. A good GM works in concert with his head coach and turns out the head coach is a fraud.

If you believe the franchise is set back, then whatever moves set the franchise back, they are on Pace, because he made all of them. He owns the responsibility for every single contract inside the football operations of the Bears. So whether you think it was the QB, the coach, or simply 40 different decisions that were all just a little bad and ended up with a result that was quite bad it doesn't matter, because Pace owns them all.

[dougthonus]

Are the Bears a well coached team?

Relative to other free agent TEs, how is Jimmy's production?

Here's his numbers on the year:
13th most receptions
5th most TDs
22nd most yards
12th highest TE salary with just $3M guaranteed next season

Not to mention we're still paying Trey Burton who Nagy exiled off of the team. He's been pretty decent on the Colts.

My point is: Pace has given Nagy talent - Nagy's done an absolute **** job of maximizing that talent. The post I responded to said Pace has been bad with FA with Jimmy as a terrible signing, sorry for I dunno, actually looking at the stats and the market from this previous offseason.

You think the talent on this team would be good with a different coach? I disagree, and I think you're on a lonely island with that opinion. In preseason, ESPN had the Bears at the 22nd best team in the league. I don't think their power rankings were based on the Bears having great talent but an awful coach either.

Even if for whatever reason, you want to say its all on Nagy, which is just ridiculous on the surface, then who is responsible for bringing in Nagy and letting him steer the ship? What makes you think Pace would get the next coach right?

The Bears will have one single winning record in 5 years under Pace.
3-13
5-11
12-4
8-8
5-7 (so far)

[dougthonus]

Bears need QB. Getting one should be priority under all costs. I think this experiment last few years under Pace answers that question. There is no point building your team if you dont have QB. You can change coach, get elite FA, get good group of players cost controlled but if you dont have QB you need reset button immediatly.

They need an OLine. They have no one there.

Back in the ancient 1970s we had Jim Finks as the GM from 1977-1983. He was a "build from the lines" first kind of GM. Drafted guys like Ted Albrecht in 1977, Dan Hampton in 1979, Keith Van Horne in 1981. He loaded up on some linebackers too. Singletary in 81, Otis Wilson in 80, Al Harris in 79. Then came the greatest Draft in Bears history in 1983. Finks's last Year as GM. Jimbo Covert, Willie Gault, Mike Richardson, Dave Duerson, Tom Thayer, Richard Dent and Mark Bortz. I was not always enamored taking linemen every year but he set up the Foundation that eventually created the best Bears team any of us now living will ever see. Having playmakers makes you a great team IF you have the foundation properly laid. But great wide outs do you no good if your QB doesn't have 3 seconds to drop back and throw. And if the O Line can't open a keyhole to develop any consistent running game. Whoever takes over for Pace needs to fix the O-Line and draft some D-Line back-up help. Our defense becomes second rate when we lose Goldman and Hicks to injury, which seems to happen every year now. We probably shouldn't even waste a pick on a QB this year. Just upgrade both lines for the next 2 drafts and live with mediocrity at QB until we have the groundwork laid to be able to put a QB in a position to succeed.

They definitely need to rework the offensive line. Saying your defensive line can't withstand injuries to half its starters and probably its 2nd and 3rd best players and thus needs backups that can plug in and play at the same level seems like an unreasonable ask though.

You'd be a lot worse off if you had two above average caliber lineman on your bench not playing most downs vs having two above average starting caliber players that are playing somewhere else every down. Granted, you may need to build the defensive line if you have guys you can't keep or move for picks, but you shouldn't ever expect to lose starters and have bench depth that has no drop off.

[CjayC]

The decision to not take Mahomes will haunt this franchise for 10+ years.

Even Watson(Though I can rationalize the decision in my head because of his injury history coming out of college). But ouch. You get a 66% chance to pick the right one, and you whiff.