Nikola Vučević discussion thread

[FranchisePlayer]

I'm guessing there hasn't been many players in Bulls' recent history who have taken 29 shots a game?

[sco]

I'm guessing there hasn't been many players in Bulls' recent history who have taken 29 shots a game?

True, but I understand that according to statistics, Lauri would be shooting 90% if he got that many shots in a game. But seriously, I'm sure the Bulls are trying to get him comfortable in the offense and Zach isn't 100%.

[Ice Man]

I'm guessing there hasn't been many players in Bulls' recent history who have taken 29 shots a game?

Probably not. Zach's season high is 28. Butler's career high as a Bull was 29. Derrick twice took more than 29 shots during his MVP season. We probably have to go back to Mike to find a player who semi-regularly took that amount of shots.

[DuckIII]

32 points on 29 shots is atrocious. Certainly nothing "easy" about it.

He shot 48% from the field and went 4/7 from downtown. I'm not sure how anyone who watched that game could walk away with the analysis that he was atrocious.

Of course Vuc wasn't atrocious, but at that volume, it starts to matter how many shots you miss. Not exactly like shoooting 7/15 or something.

Anyway, hopefully this was an outlier, with the Pacers being so depleted

So what about it was atrocious then? I don’t understand. Even if he took literally every single Chicago shot in the whole game that would be the 6th best team FG% in the NBA and the 1st best 3pt%.

If you are making a meta comment that it’s not ideal to have one player average 31% of his team’s FGA every game for an entire season, I’d agree with that.

But you said “32 points on 29 shots is atrocious.” It’s obviously not.

[DuckIII]

I'm guessing there hasn't been many players in Bulls' recent history who have taken 29 shots a game?

I’d imagine it’s unusual for most teams except maybe the Iverson-led 76ers.

Is there an issue with it happening in a game?

[HomoSapien]

I'm guessing there hasn't been many players in Bulls' recent history who have taken 29 shots a game?

I’d imagine it’s unusual for most teams except maybe the Iverson-led 76ers.

Is there an issue with it happening in a game?

The issue is being manufactured for agenda-related reasons. If a team easily wins, the player shoots well, isn't acting like a ball-hog, and also is shooting better than the team as a whole then what else could the issue be?

It's not like Vuc shoots that much regularly. This actually tied a career-high in shot attempts that he set earlier in the season.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

I, for one, welcome our new Vooch overlord. May he take 30 shots per game and lead us to victory.

[FranchisePlayer]

I'm guessing there hasn't been many players in Bulls' recent history who have taken 29 shots a game?

Probably not. Zach's season high is 28. Butler's career high as a Bull was 29. Derrick twice took more than 29 shots during his MVP season. We probably have to go back to Mike to find a player who semi-regularly took that amount of shots.

Thanks. So... we probably have to find other ways to produce, too, if we want more wins coming our way?

As in, this line of shooting probably won't last for too many games?

As in, if and when it won't, who's gonna step in?

Lavine who hasn't shot that well in the last 10 games?

I'd be very careful in saying "this is WineCola's team now". There are 5 players on the court, the bench was sorely needed against the Pacers and quite frankly, the sample size is still really small.

I think there is still very much a need to get more guys going than just VucLav (pronounced like they do in adult movies). Pun intended.

[DuckIII]

I, for one, welcome our new Vooch overlord. May he take 30 shots per game and lead us to victory.

One thing is for certain: there is no stopping him. His 30 FGA per game will soon be here. You’d probably like to remind him that as a trusted Bulls message board personality, you can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in his underground sugar caves.

[DuckIII]

I'm guessing there hasn't been many players in Bulls' recent history who have taken 29 shots a game?

I’d imagine it’s unusual for most teams except maybe the Iverson-led 76ers.

Is there an issue with it happening in a game?

The issue is being manufactured for agenda-related reasons. If a team easily wins, the player shoots well, isn't acting like a ball-hog, and also is shooting better than the team as a whole then what else could the issue be?

It's not like Vuc shoots that much regularly. This actually tied a career-high in shot attempts that he set earlier in the season.

I know. It’s the same toxin seeping into every thread on this board. Every accomplishment is fools gold unless it’s Lauri’s.

[FriedRise]

I'm guessing there hasn't been many players in Bulls' recent history who have taken 29 shots a game?

True, but I understand that according to statistics, Lauri would be shooting 90% if he got that many shots in a game. But seriously, I'm sure the Bulls are trying to get him comfortable in the offense and Zach isn't 100%.

lol I know we all love dumping on Lauri, but it really is a mindset thing. Vooch can miss 4-5 shots in a row, but it's not gonna stop him from taking a shot the rest of the game. That's how you know some of these guys are built differently than Lauri / WCJ.

[CobyWhite0]

I’d imagine it’s unusual for most teams except maybe the Iverson-led 76ers.

Is there an issue with it happening in a game?

The issue is being manufactured for agenda-related reasons. If a team easily wins, the player shoots well, isn't acting like a ball-hog, and also is shooting better than the team as a whole then what else could the issue be?

It's not like Vuc shoots that much regularly. This actually tied a career-high in shot attempts that he set earlier in the season.

I know. It’s the same toxin seeping into every thread on this board. Every accomplishment is fools gold unless it’s Lauri’s.

You have to admit, Vuc was pretty selfish with his assists last night - he had 5 assists, and only ONE of them was to Lauri - what does Vuc have against passing to poor Lauri?

And the game where Vuc had his Bulls-career high 6 assists? ZERO to Lauri. That's definite, 100% proof that Vuc hates him.

[Hugi Mancura]

Vuc had 6 offensive rebounds, that certainly helps bolster his 32 points on 29 shots. Vuc was awesome last night. I can't see how you could watch the game and think otherwise. And as mentioned, he isn't a great defender but he knows how to use his size and just being big to his advantage as a floor bound big. Lauri could stand to take some lessons.

Even though I know I will get lot of hate for saying this. Because all star's are god's and you can't say anything negative about them. Common sense is forbidden. Only defensive lessons Lauri should take from Vuc is about defensive rebounds, but that's all. Basketball is changing. The need to defend post is dying. What big's need to do now and in the future is to be good perimeter defenders and PnR defenders. There are couple players like Embiid who you need to defend on the post, but getting the weight training and the price of slowing down and thus making you lousier perimeter defender is a career killer.

In post Vuc saves 0.04 points per possession compared to Lauri. In 100 possession that's 4 points. But in iso situation (perimeter iso) Lauri saves 0.2 points per possession and as a PnR big Lauri saves 0.5 points per possession when comparing to Vuc. So as a modern big defender Lauri is better. As a post defender Vuc is better, but value of post defense is dropping fast. Getting lousier on those two other stats is not worth to get your post numbers higher. Oh, and opponents are shooting 66% at the rim vs Vuc and 63% vs Lauri, so even that is better number for Lauri (to be honest I was little bit surprised by this). Both are bad number for rim protectors, so wouldn't say Lauri is good or even average on this field.

In regular season this doesn't matter, but on playoffs teams are seeking other teams weaknesses and Vuc's defense in perimeter is the biggest hole in Bulls defense. Specially his PnR defense is alarming low. Smart teams don't play against Vuc in the post. They bring him out. Maybe Bulls should start playing zone defense.

[Louri]

The issue is being manufactured for agenda-related reasons. If a team easily wins, the player shoots well, isn't acting like a ball-hog, and also is shooting better than the team as a whole then what else could the issue be?

It's not like Vuc shoots that much regularly. This actually tied a career-high in shot attempts that he set earlier in the season.

I know. It’s the same toxin seeping into every thread on this board. Every accomplishment is fools gold unless it’s Lauri’s.

You have to admit, Vuc was pretty selfish with his assists last night - he had 5 assists, and only ONE of them was to Lauri - what does Vuc have against passing to poor Lauri? I bet he hates Finnish people, I've heard that every night right before bedtime, he burns a Finnish flag just for laughs.

0 reasons for that green ”joke” but didn’t expect anything better. As said in other thread, ”Bulls” fans in this forum will go hard on Lauri next season when he is in another team.

[HomoSapien]

The issue is being manufactured for agenda-related reasons. If a team easily wins, the player shoots well, isn't acting like a ball-hog, and also is shooting better than the team as a whole then what else could the issue be?

It's not like Vuc shoots that much regularly. This actually tied a career-high in shot attempts that he set earlier in the season.

I know. It’s the same toxin seeping into every thread on this board. Every accomplishment is fools gold unless it’s Lauri’s.

You have to admit, Vuc was pretty selfish with his assists last night - he had 5 assists, and only ONE of them was to Lauri - what does Vuc have against passing to poor Lauri? I bet he hates Finnish people, I've heard that every night right before bedtime, he burns a Finnish flag just for laughs.

And the game where Vuc had his Bulls-career high 6 assists? ZERO to Lauri. That's definite, 100% proof that Vuc hates him.

I know you're just making a joke, but let's not take the thread in that direction as some may find it offensive. Thanks.

[madvillian]

Vuc had 6 offensive rebounds, that certainly helps bolster his 32 points on 29 shots. Vuc was awesome last night. I can't see how you could watch the game and think otherwise. And as mentioned, he isn't a great defender but he knows how to use his size and just being big to his advantage as a floor bound big. Lauri could stand to take some lessons.

Even though I know I will get lot of hate for saying this. Because all star's are god's and you can't say anything negative about them. Common sense is forbidden. Only defensive lessons Lauri should take from Vuc is about defensive rebounds, but that's all. Basketball is changing. The need to defend post is dying. What big's need to do now and in the future is to be good perimeter defenders and PnR defenders. There are couple players like Embiid who you need to defend on the post, but getting the weight training and the price of slowing down and thus making you lousier perimeter defender is a career killer.

In post Vuc saves 0.04 points per possession compared to Lauri. In 100 possession that's 4 points. But in iso situation (perimeter iso) Lauri saves 0.2 points per possession and as a PnR big Lauri saves 0.5 points per possession when comparing to Vuc. So as a modern big defender Lauri is better. As a post defender Vuc is better, but value of post defense is dropping fast. Getting lousier on those two other stats is not worth to get your post numbers higher. Oh, and opponents are shooting 66% at the rim vs Vuc and 63% vs Lauri, so even that is better number for Lauri (to be honest I was little bit surprised by this). Both are bad number for rim protectors, so wouldn't say Lauri is good or even average on this field.

In regular season this doesn't matter, but on playoffs teams are seeking other teams weaknesses and Vuc's defense in perimeter is the biggest hole in Bulls defense. Specially his PnR defense is alarming low. Smart teams don't play against Vuc in the post. They bring him out. Maybe Bulls should start playing zone defense.

Interesting post and I certainly think teams should try and bring Vuc out but problem is most teams really don't have a 5 that is capable. Basketball is changing but I think that the amount of unicorn 7 footers capable of dribbling and shooting like a guard has a pretty strict limit at any given time. There are only so many of those bodies in the world.

[CobyWhite0]

I know. It’s the same toxin seeping into every thread on this board. Every accomplishment is fools gold unless it’s Lauri’s.

You have to admit, Vuc was pretty selfish with his assists last night - he had 5 assists, and only ONE of them was to Lauri - what does Vuc have against passing to poor Lauri? I bet he hates Finnish people, I've heard that every night right before bedtime, he burns a Finnish flag just for laughs.

And the game where Vuc had his Bulls-career high 6 assists? ZERO to Lauri. That's definite, 100% proof that Vuc hates him.

I know you're just making a joke, but let's not take the thread in that direction as some may find it offensive. Thanks.

My bad, I edited out any mention of Lauri's homeland.

Bad joke in poor taste... and besides, we all know the real reason Vuc doesn't pass the ball to Lauri is that he thinks Lauri sucks.

[Hugi Mancura]

Vuc had 6 offensive rebounds, that certainly helps bolster his 32 points on 29 shots. Vuc was awesome last night. I can't see how you could watch the game and think otherwise. And as mentioned, he isn't a great defender but he knows how to use his size and just being big to his advantage as a floor bound big. Lauri could stand to take some lessons.

Even though I know I will get lot of hate for saying this. Because all star's are god's and you can't say anything negative about them. Common sense is forbidden. Only defensive lessons Lauri should take from Vuc is about defensive rebounds, but that's all. Basketball is changing. The need to defend post is dying. What big's need to do now and in the future is to be good perimeter defenders and PnR defenders. There are couple players like Embiid who you need to defend on the post, but getting the weight training and the price of slowing down and thus making you lousier perimeter defender is a career killer.

In post Vuc saves 0.04 points per possession compared to Lauri. In 100 possession that's 4 points. But in iso situation (perimeter iso) Lauri saves 0.2 points per possession and as a PnR big Lauri saves 0.5 points per possession when comparing to Vuc. So as a modern big defender Lauri is better. As a post defender Vuc is better, but value of post defense is dropping fast. Getting lousier on those two other stats is not worth to get your post numbers higher. Oh, and opponents are shooting 66% at the rim vs Vuc and 63% vs Lauri, so even that is better number for Lauri (to be honest I was little bit surprised by this). Both are bad number for rim protectors, so wouldn't say Lauri is good or even average on this field.

In regular season this doesn't matter, but on playoffs teams are seeking other teams weaknesses and Vuc's defense in perimeter is the biggest hole in Bulls defense. Specially his PnR defense is alarming low. Smart teams don't play against Vuc in the post. They bring him out. Maybe Bulls should start playing zone defense.

Interesting post and I certainly think teams should try and bring Vuc out but problem is most teams really don't have a 5 that is capable. Basketball is changing but I think that the amount of unicorn 7 footers capable of dribbling and shooting like a guard has a pretty strict limit at any given time. There are only so many of those bodies in the world.

You don't need the big to be able to shoot 3's. If you watch first Q in previous game when Vuc was in court Indiana started playing PnR with Tucker. I know Tucker can shoot, so not the perfect example. But if Tucker succeeds to make screen on a shooter then that shooter had wide open shot, so you don't need shooting big to create open shot. Sure you can have guards who fight over the screen and put pressure on shooter from behind, but that is very difficult even if Bulls would have very good defensive guards.

This same reason why Gobert was benched in Utah series vs Houston and GSW (consecutive years). I know it was against Harden and Curry, so Bulls are probably only going to meet Harden in this year's playoffs. But this is something other teams probably will use against Bulls. It is much harder Bulls to bench Vuc because he brings so much on offense, but Gobert never was so bad as Vuc has been this year in defense (or ever, but maybe not the fairest defensive comparison).

[FranchisePlayer]

I know. It’s the same toxin seeping into every thread on this board. Every accomplishment is fools gold unless it’s Lauri’s.

You have to admit, Vuc was pretty selfish with his assists last night - he had 5 assists, and only ONE of them was to Lauri - what does Vuc have against passing to poor Lauri? I bet he hates Finnish people, I've heard that every night right before bedtime, he burns a Finnish flag just for laughs.

And the game where Vuc had his Bulls-career high 6 assists? ZERO to Lauri. That's definite, 100% proof that Vuc hates him.

I know you're just making a joke, but let's not take the thread in that direction as some may find it offensive. Thanks.

Thanks, I already find it offensive. Yours too with that cheap shot about agenda related reasons. Do mods mod mods?

This is a thread of Vucevic where I haven't said a word of Lauri. Yet this completely derailed discussion started off again.

At least one has to be smart - I'll leave you guys to it. Knock yourself out with how much asking of Vucevic's amount of shots has to do with Lauri and "agenda" and burning Finnish flags and whatever remarks you can come up with. I know, I know... I'm wrong and you honorable veteran posters are right.

[HomoSapien]

You have to admit, Vuc was pretty selfish with his assists last night - he had 5 assists, and only ONE of them was to Lauri - what does Vuc have against passing to poor Lauri? I bet he hates Finnish people, I've heard that every night right before bedtime, he burns a Finnish flag just for laughs.

And the game where Vuc had his Bulls-career high 6 assists? ZERO to Lauri. That's definite, 100% proof that Vuc hates him.

I know you're just making a joke, but let's not take the thread in that direction as some may find it offensive. Thanks.

Thanks, I already find it offensive. Yours too with that cheap shot about agenda related reasons. Do mods mod mods?

This is a thread of Vucevic where I haven't said a word of Lauri. Yet this completely derailed discussion started off again.

At least one has to be smart - I'll leave you guys to it. Knock yourself out with how much asking of Vucevic's amount of shots has to do with Lauri and "agenda" and burning Finnish flags and whatever remarks you can come up with. I know, I know... I'm wrong and you honorable veteran posters are right.

First of all, I was talking about ZOMG's post not yours as his post about Vuc's 32 points being an atrocious offensive performance is what started this discussion. Secondly, I'm allowed to share an opinion that I think that criticism is agenda-based. That's not against the rules, but what is against the rules is you backseat moderating. That said, if you have a problem with my post, you're more than welcome to report it.