Zach LaVine's impending Free Agency

[WookieOnRitalin]

Really excited for the hometown discount Zach promised!

[SaNdMiRkS]

Im sorry, I just don't see why ZLV would need to be convinced to re-sign. It should be the other way around. The guy has never even strung together a 4 game win streak as The Guy (or even before he became The Guy). He should be convincing Chicago that they need him. I'm not opposed to paying him, but he's never been a winning athlete once in his life. Presently, he's a juiced-up Monta Ellis/Kevin Martin. Its not like there are a plethora of teams vying for his services, especially at what will be his enormous price tag

Juiced-up Monta Ellis/Kevin Martin PRESENTLY? Just ridiculous. Zach was on another planet from them this season and this olympic run. 50.7/41.9/84.9 splits are absurd. There is a reason the entire league flipped on him this past season and even his greatest skeptics were advocating for him making the All Star Team in a hyper competitive conference at the guard position.

So where would he go, and why? to do what? I just find all of this talk to be absolutely hilarious & ironic. Not only has this dude never excelled in the playoffs, but he's never even BEEN to the playoffs, and he's more than halfway through his 20s. He's also made everyone around neutral-or-worse throughout the overwhelmingly vast majority of his on-court career.

You just described Devin Booker prior to this year. Guess the Suns shouldn't have maxed him out.

Notice, I said a *JUICED-UP* Monta, which is an apt comparison for him, especially regarding his positive/negative effect on his teammates. It's not a knock, Monta was a great player, but he wasn't a winner & played low-IQ ball, as does ZLV

Also, Booker was always a MUCH more cerebral, restrained, disciplined player than Zach LaVine. It was very easy to imagine surrounding him with length, brains, & athleticism, and having it being successful

For as good as he's gotten, ZLV still plays very reckless, sloppy basketball, is still a mediocre ball-handler, poor decision maker, undisciplined on defense, and overall a sub-par IQ player in general (if we are comparing him to other star players)

[SaNdMiRkS]

Also, the off-season moves that they made were not made to appease Zach freaking LaVine LOL. They literally went out & got talented players... ...... you know, like every single other competent front office does. DDR & Ball were arguably the two best FAs from this recent class, so the Bulls went out & signed them, and it's really that simple.

Yes they were. There are different ways to build a team. If AK were willing to throw all that money and all those assets to build a team around Ball, DDR and Vuc without someone like Lavine in the fold, it would evidence gross incompetence. The only reason any of this was done (except Ball) on that urgent timeline is because Lavine was already on the roster, had a huge season, and was only a year away from restricted free agency. No way DDR in particular gets that huge overpay without Lavine here.

Obviously Zach needs to hold up his end of the bargain by playing good basketball, but no one is “bending over backwards” for Lavine. He’s a max contract player in the NBA. That market is already set unless he blows out a knee.

Even if he’s not “the guy” in your eyes, which is fair, the Bulls are in a position in which they still need to retain him as an asset. So your differing opinion of his quality, which has flecks of factual merit nestled into a variety of contextual flaws, is ultimately irrelevant. He has to be retained for the good of the team no matter what you think of him as an individual player.

DDR wasn't an overpay, at least not if you've been watching him consistently over the past couple years. He's better now than he was a few years ago & is still relatively young in contemporary NBA years (and has adopted a low physical impact style of play)

Obviously they signed those guys to add to what they already have in ZLV/Vooch/etc, but they didn't do it to desperately "appease" Zach LaVine. He's a career loser that no NBA front office would go out of their way to overly appease/cater to unless they were absolutely desperate & had zero assets/capital to operate with

They should and probably will retain him, but acting like he's this solidified franchise centrepiece that they are bending over backwards to make happy is absurd imo

[gf2020hotmail]

Notice, I said a *JUICED-UP* Monta, which is an apt comparison for him, especially regarding his positive/negative effect on his teammates. It's not a knock, Monta was a great player, but he wasn't a winner & played low-IQ ball, as does ZLV

It is a knock. Acting like Zach is some mildly better version of a player and is just up one tier in a similar category to a player who never came close to the performance Zach had last season is wrong.

Also, Booker was always a MUCH more cerebral, restrained, disciplined player than Zach LaVine. It was very easy to imagine surrounding him with length, brains, & athleticism, and having it being successful

Interesting. I am sure this MUCH more cerebral restrained disciplined player had way less turnovers than Zach in the three seasons prior to this one when he was paired with Chris Paul.

17-18 Booker's Turnovers Per Game: 3.6 vs. LaVine's Turnovers Per Game: 1.8 (Zach did play eight less minutes but was also coming off the ACL)
18-19 Booker's Turnovers Per Game: 4.1 vs. LaVine's Turnovers Per Game: 3.4
19-20 Booker's Turnovers Per Game: 3.8 vs. LaVine's Turnovers Per Game: 3.4

Help me lord, I can't even see straight I am so blinded by Booker's cerebral, restrained, disciplined play.

You are talking out of your butt. You said something ridiculous and now you are doubling down on it, based on whatever idea you have of Devin Booker before this season. And you are the one who over extended yourself by saying MUCH. Facts>Hyperbole.

[GoBlue72391]

Im sorry, I just don't see why ZLV would need to be convinced to re-sign. It should be the other way around. The guy has never even strung together a 4 game win streak as The Guy (or even before he became The Guy). He should be convincing Chicago that they need him. I'm not opposed to paying him, but he's never been a winning athlete once in his life. Presently, he's a juiced-up Monta Ellis/Kevin Martin. Its not like there are a plethora of teams vying for his services, especially at what will be his enormous price tag

Juiced-up Monta Ellis/Kevin Martin PRESENTLY? Just ridiculous. Zach was on another planet from them this season and this olympic run. 50.7/41.9/84.9 splits are absurd. There is a reason the entire league flipped on him this past season and even his greatest skeptics were advocating for him making the All Star Team in a hyper competitive conference at the guard position.

So where would he go, and why? to do what? I just find all of this talk to be absolutely hilarious & ironic. Not only has this dude never excelled in the playoffs, but he's never even BEEN to the playoffs, and he's more than halfway through his 20s. He's also made everyone around neutral-or-worse throughout the overwhelmingly vast majority of his on-court career.

You just described Devin Booker prior to this year. Guess the Suns shouldn't have maxed him out.

Notice, I said a *JUICED-UP* Monta, which is an apt comparison for him, especially regarding his positive/negative effect on his teammates. It's not a knock, Monta was a great player, but he wasn't a winner & played low-IQ ball, as does ZLV

Also, Booker was always a MUCH more cerebral, restrained, disciplined player than Zach LaVine. It was very easy to imagine surrounding him with length, brains, & athleticism, and having it being successful

For as good as he's gotten, ZLV still plays very reckless, sloppy basketball, is still a mediocre ball-handler, poor decision maker, undisciplined on defense, and overall a sub-par IQ player in general (if we are comparing him to other star players)

It's not an apt comparison at all. Monta was an inefficient chucker who couldn't shoot the 3 and while Zach might not have the highest basketball IQ of all time he's Magic Johnson compared to Monta. Zach just almost had a 50/40/90 season.

Booker is a relatively apt comparison, I'll give you that, but to pretend like he was some clear-cut victim of circumstance who would thrive with a good team around him while Zach is some dolt who is destined to be on losing teams regardless of the talent put around him is pretty ridiculous.

[SaNdMiRkS]

It would be pretty shocking to see them not offer a max deal.

It would mean the season was a disaster.

It's crazy to think that a guy with zero playoff experience and one all star appearance is poised to be the highest paid Chicago Bull ever.
You think back to how hard Scottie and Horace had to battle to get paid and they had won some titles already!

He's really right where Butler was when they decided to bail out on him vs paying him.
Paxson is still in the house somewhere too. He picked him over the Jimmy Butler experience.

I hope this is a no brainer after Zach leads us deep into the Eastern Conference Finals vs the Nets.
Like multiple teams are in the hunt after they see some playoff Lavine.

The comparison to where JB was at the same stage doesn't really hold weight. JB was a premier NBA two-way wing, the most valuable & coveted player archetype in modern basketball, and he had relatively ample playoff experience & was a career winner.

Zach LaVine is a career-losing, one-way, net negative (until very recently) shooting guard, who is a very poor defender, has never even sniffed a post-season, and who blew out an ACL a few yrs back

Paying/building around JB was a no-brainer, and that trade that Paxson opted to do instead, was a scandalous disaster that subsequently got the GarPax reign of terror completely dismantled & wiped away.

Paying Zach LaVine isn't exactly a no-brainer. It's a very difficult decision to have to make

Also, Paxson is nowhere near the house. They literally gave him some fake title so that he could keep collecting a courtesy paycheck. Big corporations do it all the time. There has been nothing whatsoever to suggest that he has any say in anything or is even in the loop on any decision-making. He's a goner & hasn't been seen since he was relieved of his duties, and I highly doubt will ever be seen again, especially after the old man croaks

[meekrab]

You think back to how hard Scottie and Horace had to battle to get paid and they had won some titles already!

Pippen screwed himself, signed the worst contract in the history of the team all of his own accord despite everyone telling him not to do it.

https://basketballforever.com/2020/04/22/bulls-scottie-pippen-cheap-contract-entire-prime

[dice]

Really excited for the hometown discount Zach promised!

if there's a hometown discount it will be of the variety that melo gave the knicks

[dice]

It would be pretty shocking to see them not offer a max deal.

It would mean the season was a disaster.

It's crazy to think that a guy with zero playoff experience and one all star appearance is poised to be the highest paid Chicago Bull ever.
You think back to how hard Scottie and Horace had to battle to get paid and they had won some titles already!

He's really right where Butler was when they decided to bail out on him vs paying him.
Paxson is still in the house somewhere too. He picked him over the Jimmy Butler experience.

I hope this is a no brainer after Zach leads us deep into the Eastern Conference Finals vs the Nets.
Like multiple teams are in the hunt after they see some playoff Lavine.

The comparison to where JB was at the same stage doesn't really hold weight. JB was a premier NBA two-way wing, the most valuable & coveted player archetype in modern basketball, and he had relatively ample playoff experience & was a career winner.

agreed except for the part in bold, which is wild exaggeration given that jimmy isn't a good 3 pt shooter

Zach LaVine is a career-losing, one-way, net negative (until very recently) shooting guard, who is a very poor defender, has never even sniffed a post-season, and who blew out an ACL a few yrs back

pretty much true, though i'd be curious what the comparative re-injury rate is for a high flier who drastically improved AFTER the injury and is now a few years removed from it

Paying/building around JB was a no-brainer

nah. i'm a jimmy fan and was bummed that he was dealt, but it was totally understandable that they wouldn't want to pay a non-megastar the max from age 30 to 34. he totally crapped the bed in the playoffs in year 2 of that deal this past season. was that the beginning of the career downturn? time will tell

and that trade that Paxson opted to do instead, was a scandalous disaster that subsequently got the GarPax reign of terror completely dismantled & wiped away.

this is hyperbole. i didn't like the return on the trade, and it hasn't turned out particularly well, but there are many examples of worse trades, including one that pax was on the winning end of: the eddy curry deal. and paxson had a hell of a run prior to gar's arrival, so if there was a "reign of terror", the lion's share of that is on gar

Paying Zach LaVine isn't exactly a no-brainer. It's a very difficult decision to have to make

i'd argue that NOT paying him the max is a no-brainer unless he drastically improves his defense in a single season

Also, Paxson is nowhere near the house. They literally gave him some fake title so that he could keep collecting a courtesy paycheck. Big corporations do it all the time. There has been nothing whatsoever to suggest that he has any say in anything or is even in the loop on any decision-making. He's a goner & hasn't been seen since he was relieved of his duties, and I highly doubt will ever be seen again, especially after the old man croaks

probably true

[Lexluthor]

How much money will the bulls have left over if Zach resigns ?

[gf2020hotmail]

How much money will the bulls have left over if Zach resigns ?

The Bulls will be over the cap if Zach resigns for anything close to the max. If it's the 35.7 max, be about 5 or 6 million under the tax at that point with 12 players including their draft pick. They can probably use the BAE o some of the tax payer MLE or resign Troy Brown on a small deal.

But they can obviously go into the tax and use all of their MLE and resign Brown and Lauri if he is still around and has an awesome season. But that's probably only happening if we win a playoff series or at least get a top five seed.

But having meaningful cap space again is probably not a thing until DeRozan's deal expires and that's if they let Vuc walk the year before.

[PrimzyBulls81]

Zach must stay, no doubt about it at all. I just hope we can keep him under max. Maybe 4yrs/124M deal, 31M per.. Saves us 4M per year

[WindyCityBorn]

Really excited for the hometown discount Zach promised!

Yeah right. He is getting his full max and he as earned it so far.

[WindyCityBorn]

It would be pretty shocking to see them not offer a max deal.

It would mean the season was a disaster.

It's crazy to think that a guy with zero playoff experience and one all star appearance is poised to be the highest paid Chicago Bull ever.
You think back to how hard Scottie and Horace had to battle to get paid and they had won some titles already!

He's really right where Butler was when they decided to bail out on him vs paying him.
Paxson is still in the house somewhere too. He picked him over the Jimmy Butler experience.

I hope this is a no brainer after Zach leads us deep into the Eastern Conference Finals vs the Nets.
Like multiple teams are in the hunt after they see some playoff Lavine.

The comparison to where JB was at the same stage doesn't really hold weight. JB was a premier NBA two-way wing, the most valuable & coveted player archetype in modern basketball, and he had relatively ample playoff experience & was a career winner.

Zach LaVine is a career-losing, one-way, net negative (until very recently) shooting guard, who is a very poor defender, has never even sniffed a post-season, and who blew out an ACL a few yrs back

Paying/building around JB was a no-brainer, and that trade that Paxson opted to do instead, was a scandalous disaster that subsequently got the GarPax reign of terror completely dismantled & wiped away.

Paying Zach LaVine isn't exactly a no-brainer. It's a very difficult decision to have to make

Also, Paxson is nowhere near the house. They literally gave him some fake title so that he could keep collecting a courtesy paycheck. Big corporations do it all the time. There has been nothing whatsoever to suggest that he has any say in anything or is even in the loop on any decision-making. He's a goner & hasn't been seen since he was relieved of his duties, and I highly doubt will ever be seen again, especially after the old man croaks

It’s a no-brainer for the people running this team. If you think we are not giving Zach a max offer after the moves made this Summer you are in denial.

[WindyCityBorn]

Zach must stay, no doubt about it at all. I just hope we can keep him under max. Maybe 4yrs/124M deal, 31M per.. Saves us 4M per year

Not happening. “Respect” = max contract.

[Wingy]

It would be pretty shocking to see them not offer a max deal.

It would mean the season was a disaster.

It's crazy to think that a guy with zero playoff experience and one all star appearance is poised to be the highest paid Chicago Bull ever.
You think back to how hard Scottie and Horace had to battle to get paid and they had won some titles already!

He's really right where Butler was when they decided to bail out on him vs paying him.
Paxson is still in the house somewhere too. He picked him over the Jimmy Butler experience.

I hope this is a no brainer after Zach leads us deep into the Eastern Conference Finals vs the Nets.
Like multiple teams are in the hunt after they see some playoff Lavine.

The comparison to where JB was at the same stage doesn't really hold weight. JB was a premier NBA two-way wing, the most valuable & coveted player archetype in modern basketball, and he had relatively ample playoff experience & was a career winner.

Zach LaVine is a career-losing, one-way, net negative (until very recently) shooting guard, who is a very poor defender, has never even sniffed a post-season, and who blew out an ACL a few yrs back

Paying/building around JB was a no-brainer, and that trade that Paxson opted to do instead, was a scandalous disaster that subsequently got the GarPax reign of terror completely dismantled & wiped away.

Paying Zach LaVine isn't exactly a no-brainer. It's a very difficult decision to have to make

Also, Paxson is nowhere near the house. They literally gave him some fake title so that he could keep collecting a courtesy paycheck. Big corporations do it all the time. There has been nothing whatsoever to suggest that he has any say in anything or is even in the loop on any decision-making. He's a goner & hasn't been seen since he was relieved of his duties, and I highly doubt will ever be seen again, especially after the old man croaks

It’s a no-brainer for the people running this team. If you think we are not giving Zach a max offer after the moves made this Summer you are in denial.

I really hated the trade, and always wanted to keep Jimmy.

I do like Zach though, and questioning whether he’s a max player is quite simply moronic. There’s literally no way to sugarcoat that take, or to describe it any other way.

Yes, he’s not as good as some stars, but it’s also a function of the market. Questioning him being max when also considering the market means you’re simply not paying attention. Every team in the league would happily max out Zach (as someone here already said).

[sco]

The comparison to where JB was at the same stage doesn't really hold weight. JB was a premier NBA two-way wing, the most valuable & coveted player archetype in modern basketball, and he had relatively ample playoff experience & was a career winner.

Zach LaVine is a career-losing, one-way, net negative (until very recently) shooting guard, who is a very poor defender, has never even sniffed a post-season, and who blew out an ACL a few yrs back

Paying/building around JB was a no-brainer, and that trade that Paxson opted to do instead, was a scandalous disaster that subsequently got the GarPax reign of terror completely dismantled & wiped away.

Paying Zach LaVine isn't exactly a no-brainer. It's a very difficult decision to have to make

Also, Paxson is nowhere near the house. They literally gave him some fake title so that he could keep collecting a courtesy paycheck. Big corporations do it all the time. There has been nothing whatsoever to suggest that he has any say in anything or is even in the loop on any decision-making. He's a goner & hasn't been seen since he was relieved of his duties, and I highly doubt will ever be seen again, especially after the old man croaks

It’s a no-brainer for the people running this team. If you think we are not giving Zach a max offer after the moves made this Summer you are in denial.

I really hated the trade, and always wanted to keep Jimmy.

I do like Zach though, and questioning whether he’s a max player is quite simply moronic. There’s literally no way to sugarcoat that take, or to describe it any other way.

Yes, he’s not as good as some stars, but it’s also a function of the market. Questioning him being max when also considering the market means you’re simply not paying attention. Every team in the league would happily max out Zach (as someone here already said).

The part of this (and most arguments here) is the "compared to what" portion. Do we want to pay Zach the max? What's our alternative?

Let him walk? If we did, what better player(s) would we be signing with that money?

Trade him this season? Maybe. For who?

As for whether Zach is "worth the max", a young guy who made the allstar team, with future appearances likely, who has no attitude issues, and is just entering his prime, is a bit of a no brainer.

[TyrusRose2425]

Is it all nba first team or any of the three?

[gf2020hotmail]

Is it all nba first team or any of the three?

Any of the three, which is still difficult to imagine happening.

[kodo]

Bobby Marks's latest article, saying Lavine & Beal are the headliners and only stars of the next FA class.
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32039279/nba-free-agency-2022-superstars-trades-teams-watch

A once star-studded free-agent class consisting of Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry, Jimmy Butler and perhaps Kawhi Leonard, is now led by Zach LaVine and perhaps Bradley Beal.

"Because next offseason is average at best in talent, I am expecting the trade market to be extremely active during the regular season," a Western Conference general manager told ESPN.

Better make sure this kid is locked up, because there won't be a replacement for a long while. I wouldn't try to save a few bucks here and risk Lavine finding another city more appealing.