Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division?

[Andi Obst]

Jrue became a top-15 player the last month of the season and into the olympics. I dunno if that’s sustainable; he hasn’t played at that level consistently.

Otherwise, seems like a wide open race. What have Cade and Garland/Sexton done? Brogdon is excellent but injury prone. Should be a nice fight.

Not even close to top 15, come on.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Last month of season; ie the ECF and finals. He stepped up and played well. Then was basically one of the best USA reps.

Still wouldn’t go as high as top 15 because the offense was too unreliable in the playoffs, but he’s definitely top 25 for me. Best perimeter defender in the game. Easily the best point guard in the division.

[WindyCityBorn]

Jrue became a top-15 player the last month of the season and into the olympics. I dunno if that’s sustainable; he hasn’t played at that level consistently.

Otherwise, seems like a wide open race. What have Cade and Garland/Sexton done? Brogdon is excellent but injury prone. Should be a nice fight.

LMAO. This is ridiculous.

[khufure]

Is Lonzo a good player evaluated stand alone? No
Is he overpaid? Yes
Does he fit in really well with the team concept and other players? Yes

IMO given the skill he demonstrated last year he's barely overpaid at that level. So I have to ask how do you know he's overpaid? He hasn't even played a game on his new contract and is just 23 (24 next month). From what I have seen Ball is an extremely hard worker that improves every year. For me that is one of the most attractive parts of his game, very similar to Lavine in that way.

I am unable to predict the future, try as I might.

Most people are paid based on their current performance
14.6p 5.7a 4.8r 41.4%fg does not a $20m player make

Curated stats -- leaving out 3pt% or efg. I don't trust any defensive stats but it's also one of his strongest skills and should be mentioned.

[coldfish]

IMO given the skill he demonstrated last year he's barely overpaid at that level. So I have to ask how do you know he's overpaid? He hasn't even played a game on his new contract and is just 23 (24 next month). From what I have seen Ball is an extremely hard worker that improves every year. For me that is one of the most attractive parts of his game, very similar to Lavine in that way.

I am unable to predict the future, try as I might.

Most people are paid based on their current performance
14.6p 5.7a 4.8r 41.4%fg does not a $20m player make

Curated stats -- leaving out 3pt% or efg. I don't trust any defensive stats but it's also one of his strongest skills and should be mentioned.

He had a 37.5% 3p.

I sincerely wish that he goes on to significantly improve and badly outplay his contract. That said, this is not the profile of a $20m+ player. He is overpaid, like I said.

[Ctownbulls]

Jrue became a top-15 player the last month of the season and into the olympics. I dunno if that’s sustainable; he hasn’t played at that level consistently.

Otherwise, seems like a wide open race. What have Cade and Garland/Sexton done? Brogdon is excellent but injury prone. Should be a nice fight.

Not even close to top 15, come on.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Last month of season; ie the ECF and finals. He stepped up and played well. Then was basically one of the best USA reps.

Sure, no doubt. And he might be the best PG in the division but he isn't even close to top 15 in the league.

Jokic, Lebron, Giannis, Harden, Curry, Doncic, Embiid, Durant, Lillard, Beal, Kyrie, Zion, Randle, Leonard, Trae, Lavine, Butler, Tatum, Mitchell, Davis

Those are 20 that are clearly better.

You can argue about 20 others also.

[RoyceDa59]

I’ll take ball over Sexton and Brogdan.

Ball is an elite defender, 3pt shooter and distributor and he’s 6’7. Only getting better too.

[NatiboyB]

1. Holiday
2. Brogdon
3. Garland
4. Ball
5. Sexton

[The Box Office]

I easily, easily take Lonzo Ball over Sexton and Garland. All day.

[Ugly Duckling]

It depends on the metric of it. No one is going to say Lonzo Ball is the best PG out there and if he was we couldn’t have gotten him for the money we did. Fit wise Ball works with this squad imho, I would take him over Sexton. I would also take Garland over sexton though too and think the Cavs have made that their priority too. The point though is that Ball is better than Sato or White so we upgraded.

exactly, he might be the worst in our division (garland is the cavs starting pg is should make another leap this season), but he's better than several starting pg's in the league. pg is a stacked position, but lonzo has some rare attributes being 6'7" with the elite vision and good defense. also finally developed his 3 ball. so although he's in the bottom third? of pg's, he can make it to the top third. also his bro has a similar game and is already one of the best. his bro is better, but still

[WindyCityBorn]

Is Lonzo a good player evaluated stand alone? No
Is he overpaid? Yes
Does he fit in really well with the team concept and other players? Yes

IMO given the skill he demonstrated last year he's barely overpaid at that level. So I have to ask how do you know he's overpaid? He hasn't even played a game on his new contract and is just 23 (24 next month). From what I have seen Ball is an extremely hard worker that improves every year. For me that is one of the most attractive parts of his game, very similar to Lavine in that way.

I am unable to predict the future, try as I might.

Most people are paid based on their current performance
14.6p 5.7a 4.8r 41.4%fg does not a $20m player make

Zach wasn’t.

[MrSparkle]

At the end of the day, the league has become PnR to an obsessive degree, and either you've got a guy who can shoot and pass, or you don't.

If he ends up being able to shoot around a Vuc screen, then he's gonna generate a lot of offense. Similarly with DeRozan. None of these guys are Curry, Luka or Jokic, but we've gone from amateur hour PnR to star level passers and poppers/rollers.

The skills Lonzo can potentially bring are invaluable. Good bit of gamble on the player overall and his contract. I'm skeptical of his handles. His vision is elite. It'll be interesting to see where he goes. He's in as good a position as possible to succeed, IMO. Star scoring C with 3P range, star SG who can catch any pass, vet mentor high IQ DDR, and an athletic small PF who can shoot... and a positive coach who likes to play fast, multiple guard line-ups.

[coldfish]

IMO given the skill he demonstrated last year he's barely overpaid at that level. So I have to ask how do you know he's overpaid? He hasn't even played a game on his new contract and is just 23 (24 next month). From what I have seen Ball is an extremely hard worker that improves every year. For me that is one of the most attractive parts of his game, very similar to Lavine in that way.

I am unable to predict the future, try as I might.

Most people are paid based on their current performance
14.6p 5.7a 4.8r 41.4%fg does not a $20m player make

Zach wasn’t.

Neither was Davis Bertans.

[coldfish]

General comment: Ball is generally considered to the the 4th best player. Maybe 5th if Pat takes off.

If your 4th or 5th best player is a Zach Lavine level guy, you should be working on expanding your trophy case.

[IamSam]

Is Lonzo a good player evaluated stand alone? No
Is he overpaid? Yes
Does he fit in really well with the team concept and other players? Yes

IMO given the skill he demonstrated last year he's barely overpaid at that level. So I have to ask how do you know he's overpaid? He hasn't even played a game on his new contract and is just 23 (24 next month). From what I have seen Ball is an extremely hard worker that improves every year. For me that is one of the most attractive parts of his game, very similar to Lavine in that way.

I am unable to predict the future, try as I might.

Most people are paid based on their current performance
14.6p 5.7a 4.8r 41.4%fg does not a $20m player make

I would argue that we see people paid for potential future performance a lot more than we realize. If you think about it, every time a new hire is on-boarded, or a manager is promoted to director with a pay increase, it is not known for sure that those individuals will be necessarily be successful, but companies/organizations bet that they will have a shot to be successful based on their education, other experiences, etc.

That having been said, I am definitely hopeful as a Bulls fan that Lonzo "grows" into his contract.

[dice]

player impact plus-minus:

2.98 holiday (2.12o, 0.86d, 3 yr sample)
1.53 brogdon (1.53o, 0.00d, 3 yr sample)
0.60 lonzo (-0.24o, 0.84d, career)
-1.20 garland (-0.18o, -1.01d, last year only)
-1.61 sexton (0.73o, -2.34d, 2 yr sample)

looks about right to me. lonzo probably has a little upside left, which probably puts him about on par w/ brogdon for the coming season. garland obviously has significantly more upside, but will he make that jump to get up into the brogdon/ball convo this season? unlikely. and sexton is, of course, even more unlikely