Cowley: Bulls ready to add Patrick Williams to trade block

[dougthonus]

It’s hard to imagine him having much trade value at this point, but the concern has shifted to whether or not he can even earn his relatively mild contract. Plus our team has zero franchise players and no direction. It would make sense now to trade him but it’s hard to see it with him playing like he has been. Guys who sign long deals and immediately get worse are a hard sell.

As I said in another thread, I'm a Pat optimist relative to the current view at this point.

1: Has to get back down to 215-220 and get into really good athletic condition again.

2: Has to focus on a narrow role (3&D) and not think "I'm going to become this offensive player". Just focus on help defense, boxing out, staying in front of your man, shooting 3s, running the floor, making basket cuts.

I feel like if the scope of thing is narrowed down to those two general points that he could be a successful player on this deal. Not a star player, a guy every team wants.

That said, this comes down to the question of whether a lot of his problems were poor focus (all this talk about him being a star and what he was trying to learn) and the foot injury (got him out of shape, no off-season to work) or just lack of love for the game. If it's a combination of the first two, Pat can be good. If it's the last one, we're just screwed.

[Ice Man]

"Not being completely comfortable to buy in to what's being communicated."

What the hell does that even mean?

It means, "Jump, Pat, Jump."

[Stratmaster]

To summarize this article in another way: There's just no organizational cure for Eddy Curry-ism.

This was more or less the exact thing I was thinking about Pat too. Maybe he just doesn't like basketball.

Probably correct. But he likes the 90 million Washington's.

What a joke.

[Stratmaster]

It’s hard to imagine him having much trade value at this point, but the concern has shifted to whether or not he can even earn his relatively mild contract. Plus our team has zero franchise players and no direction. It would make sense now to trade him but it’s hard to see it with him playing like he has been. Guys who sign long deals and immediately get worse are a hard sell.

As I said in another thread, I'm a Pat optimist relative to the current view at this point.

1: Has to get back down to 215-220 and get into really good athletic condition again.

2: Has to focus on a narrow role (3&D) and not think "I'm going to become this offensive player". Just focus on help defense, boxing out, staying in front of your man, shooting 3s, running the floor, making basket cuts.

I feel like if the scope of thing is narrowed down to those two general points that he could be a successful player on this deal. Not a star player, a guy every team wants.

That said, this comes down to the question of whether a lot of his problems were poor focus (all this talk about him being a star and what he was trying to learn) and the foot injury (got him out of shape, no off-season to work) or just lack of love for the game. If it's a combination of the first two, Pat can be good. If it's the last one, we're just screwed.

Assuming it is the first 2 are you suggesting he has trade value or that the Bulls should keep him?

On the focus issue, do you think he was being misused and/or pointed in the wrong direction by the coach?

[Stratmaster]

One other note. If you can't trade him, give him away. If you can't give him away, bench him. He should never see the floor unless there is a 20 point score difference in the last 6 minutes of a game.

[League Circles]

One other note. If you can't trade him, give him away. If you can't give him away, bench him. He should never see the floor unless there is a 20 point score difference in the last 6 minutes of a game.

If he stops seeing the floor entirely there would be a 100% chance we have to keep him and pay him for the duration of his 5 year contract.

[kodo]

In other news, Arturas also said it may be time to sell his FTX tokens.

[dougthonus]

Assuming it is the first 2 are you suggesting he has trade value or that the Bulls should keep him?

I think he has no trade value right now, and we're probably stuck keeping him. I'd be fine dumping him even for an expiring and not taking the risk if we were able to.

On the focus issue, do you think he was being misused and/or pointed in the wrong direction by the coach?

I think for awhile from what I gather, the Bulls tried to fill his head with Pat will be a star, he's got to be more aggressive offensively, and talked about him constantly doing more on offense. That might be wrong, maybe we didn't do that, but it just seemed to be a common refrain. If we did do that, have to refocus his work areas.

I think the conditioning might be highly related to the foot, but hard to say. I'd think he'd have played himself into better shape by now, but if he were willing, my plan for him would be: slim down, get into elite physical condition, play hard on defense, shoot open jumpers.

That's the path for him IMO, not sure he's willing to go down it or cares at all, it's obviously a big risk that this guy just doesn't have the desire or mentality to compete at this level.

[Stratmaster]

One other note. If you can't trade him, give him away. If you can't give him away, bench him. He should never see the floor unless there is a 20 point score difference in the last 6 minutes of a game.

If he stops seeing the floor entirely there would be a 100% chance we have to keep him and pay him for the duration of his 5 year contract.

If you play him there is a100٪ chance of the same. You think seeing more of this is going to increase his value?

[League Circles]

Notice how the article says "involved in trade discussions".

I think everyone knows nobody is going to give anything remotely positive for Patrick by himself right now due to his play vs contract status. What this Cowley special article most certainly actually means is that Patrick is now being discussed in package deal offers.

Critical to remember that Patrick is only now eligible to be traded as of January 15th.

He effectively could not be traded this past summer nor at last season's trade deadline cause he was injured.

It looks highly likely that Patrick was re-signed with AK knowing it would be likely he would be traded. That's still a mistake IMO, but there is really no evidence to suggest that AK was very high on Patrick (other than when drafted of course), but has just changed his mind now (when it's too late).

I still think the way to go here, and what is probably being explored, is a consolidation trade where Patrick and somebody like Ayo, Giddey or Coby are packaged for a decent starting forward.

[kodo]

"Not being completely comfortable to buy in to what's being communicated."

What the hell does that even mean?

I'm taking it to mean he's not comfortable with being asked to take on an a bigger offensive load since he knows he's not capable of doing that.

If that's not it, I have no idea what it could mean. It's very troubling either way.

I would guess they're asking him to be more aggressive attacking the rim, he knows that usually ends in disaster as he loses the ball or just doesn't get a good shot up. When someone attacks the basket bodies are flying at that guy, stuff is happening in real-time fast, you have to make split second decisions reacting to defenders moving. This is probably Pat's nightmare scenario. The guy has problems even tracking a rebound in real-time.

He's one of the worst finishers at the rim on the Bulls, and he was also one of the worst during his 43 games last season as well.

Bulls are probably pointing to THT and asking Patrick to do at least what this $2M guy is doing, and Patrick isn't.

[League Circles]

The fact that Patrick's deal is a declining % of the cap while he should at least be projected to slightly improve over the course of it, and his "3 and D" profile (can integrate into any lineup really), probably mean that as part of a package, he will not be as negatively perceived by other teams as we probably think of him right now. Cause we're thinking of him in a vacuum while other execs will be looking at him attached to a better young player on a better contract in the form of Coby, Ayo or Giddey.

[Stratmaster]

Assuming it is the first 2 are you suggesting he has trade value or that the Bulls should keep him?

I think he has no trade value right now, and we're probably stuck keeping him. I'd be fine dumping him even for an expiring and not taking the risk if we were able to.

On the focus issue, do you think he was being misused and/or pointed in the wrong direction by the coach?

I think for awhile from what I gather, the Bulls tried to fill his head with Pat will be a star, he's got to be more aggressive offensively, and talked about him constantly doing more on offense. That might be wrong, maybe we didn't do that, but it just seemed to be a common refrain. If we did do that, have to refocus his work areas.

I think the conditioning might be highly related to the foot, but hard to say. I'd think he'd have played himself into better shape by now, but if he were willing, my plan for him would be: slim down, get into elite physical condition, play hard on defense, shoot open jumpers.

That's the path for him IMO, not sure he's willing to go down it or cares at all, it's obviously a big risk that this guy just doesn't have the desire or mentality to compete at this level.

They are going to have to dump him. But I agree about the conditioning. Like you said... if he even cares enough. That pretty much turns him into a wing and I think his defense is overrated.

If the problem is the coaching staff was completely wrong about him it's just another example of Donovan getting the least from almost every player he has had on the roster. I know you think highly of Billy but I don't know how many more examples like this we need to change your perspective.

Most likely it's just that Pat isn't good and never was.

But having a guy who hurts the team when he is on the court, and can't take direction from multiple coaches... and then giving him a 5 year/90 mil contract is a glaring indictment on AKME. It's one thing to still believe in the talent of a struggling player. But after 4 seasons hat alone should tell you that there is no way he should have gotten that contact. Add in the insider info that he can't be coached and it is jaw dropping.

[HoopsterJones]

Like I keep saying. Even worse than the Felicio contract. AKME deserved to be fired for this blatant bust AND extension. Could’ve RFA and wait to see if something signed him to an offer sheet.

[Stratmaster]

Notice how the article says "involved in trade discussions".

I think everyone knows nobody is going to give anything remotely positive for Patrick by himself right now due to his play vs contract status. What this Cowley special article most certainly actually means is that Patrick is now being discussed in package deal offers.

Critical to remember that Patrick is only now eligible to be traded as of January 15th.

He effectively could not be traded this past summer nor at last season's trade deadline cause he was injured.

It looks highly likely that Patrick was re-signed with AK knowing it would be likely he would be traded. That's still a mistake IMO, but there is really no evidence to suggest that AK was very high on Patrick (other than when drafted of course), but has just changed his mind now (when it's too late).

I still think the way to go here, and what is probably being explored, is a consolidation trade where Patrick and somebody like Ayo, Giddey or Coby are packaged for a decent starting forward.

If trading Coby and Pat can get you a decent starting PF it should be done immediately. I can't imagine anyone doing that at this point; but, if they are willing... do it while they are still stoned

[League Circles]

Not to defend him cause I definitely don't like what I've seen this year, but good to remember that Patrick is appropriately a 5th option starter behind Vuc, Zach, Coby and Giddey. I'd be curious to see how Patrick's admittedly bad offensive numbers compare to other 5th option starters who are also the best defenders in their starting units across the league.

I know it's hard to wrap our heads around this because leaguewide inflation has made a contract for a 5th option, defensive-focuser starter now be something like what he's paid, and cause he was a #4 overall pick, but at the end of the day, this guys is currently playing a role along the lines of these guys before him:

Old man Antonio Davis
Chris Duhon
Young Tyson Chandler
Ben Wallace
PJ Brown
Tyrus Thomas
Early Taj Gibson
Keith Bogans
Old Kirk Hinrich
Old Noah
Old Rondo
Caruso / Ayo / Javonte

In this light, he's not quite as bad as we all feel he is. Still want to dump him, basically just saying that things like points per game or 36 are kinda the wrong metrics for a 5th option defensive starter.

[MisterRoy]

If Pat gets designated a 3&D SF, does he do the job decently and just become overpaid? Get him out of that 4 spot.

[League Circles]

Notice how the article says "involved in trade discussions".

I think everyone knows nobody is going to give anything remotely positive for Patrick by himself right now due to his play vs contract status. What this Cowley special article most certainly actually means is that Patrick is now being discussed in package deal offers.

Critical to remember that Patrick is only now eligible to be traded as of January 15th.

He effectively could not be traded this past summer nor at last season's trade deadline cause he was injured.

It looks highly likely that Patrick was re-signed with AK knowing it would be likely he would be traded. That's still a mistake IMO, but there is really no evidence to suggest that AK was very high on Patrick (other than when drafted of course), but has just changed his mind now (when it's too late).

I still think the way to go here, and what is probably being explored, is a consolidation trade where Patrick and somebody like Ayo, Giddey or Coby are packaged for a decent starting forward.

If trading Coby and Pat can get you a decent starting PF it should be done immediately. I can't imagine anyone doing that at this point; but, if they are willing... do it while they are still stoned

Haven't you been talking about how the Bulls should and could be making exactly that type of deal all season?

[League Circles]

If Pat gets designated a 3&D SF, does he do the job decently and just become overpaid? Get him out of that 4 spot.

He basically already has had that job. Sure he defends the 4 just as much if not more than the 3, but that's his role for sure.

[GoBlue72391]

Notice how the article says "involved in trade discussions".

I think everyone knows nobody is going to give anything remotely positive for Patrick by himself right now due to his play vs contract status. What this Cowley special article most certainly actually means is that Patrick is now being discussed in package deal offers.

Critical to remember that Patrick is only now eligible to be traded as of January 15th.

He effectively could not be traded this past summer nor at last season's trade deadline cause he was injured.

It looks highly likely that Patrick was re-signed with AK knowing it would be likely he would be traded. That's still a mistake IMO, but there is really no evidence to suggest that AK was very high on Patrick (other than when drafted of course), but has just changed his mind now (when it's too late).

I still think the way to go here, and what is probably being explored, is a consolidation trade where Patrick and somebody like Ayo, Giddey or Coby are packaged for a decent starting forward.

You're giving AKME way too much credit. They signed him to 5/$90M because they wanted to keep him and that's what they valued him at.

If the intention was to trade him all along, they would have done so at previous season's trade deadlines when he actually had value. They could have signed and traded him in the off-season. They could have signed him to a more movable contract if they weren't completely sold on him, something like 2 years plus a team option for the 3rd, but they didn't do that.

This just reads as a roundabout way of excusing AKME's incompetence by playing it off like they had this grand vision to trade him all along. That's not what happened and all the evidence suggests the opposite.