Coby's Next Contract

[League Circles]

No, hes having a great month. He was having a below average season.

He's having a great season. He's a high volume scorer who's significantly above league average efficiency on the season overall. He offers a lot of leadership, toughness, can score in a pretty wide variety of ways and provides solid supplementary playmaking.

So when the Bulls went 13-23 before the resurgence and Coby averaged 17.2 points on 42/36/89 (3 FTA per game). That was him having a great season?

Of course not. I'm talking about the season as a whole, as an average. Has he been inconsistent? Sure. I might not be as concerned about that as others because I see it as pretty common among small perimeter scorers, and because his role changed in a significant way, but baking in whatever level of inconsistency he's had, the end result has still been a strong overall season to date.

[Indomitable]

Are we back in the "Coby had a great month, he's an all-star" discussion again? I like Coby, I sincerely hope that he carries this over and proves me wrong about being the perfect 6th man but a weak starter. But I have seen this movie trailer at least twice before and I will believe it when the full movie is just as good as the trailers.

He's having a great season.

No, hes having a great month/month and a half. He was having a below average season.

Exactly and you are actually the voice of reason.

[League Circles]

No, he isn't. I mean, compared to his other seasons. even AFTER an unbelievably hot month his 3 point shooting is down, his rebounding his down, his assists are middle of the pack compared to his other seasons. His turnovers are up. His BPM is worse than the last 2 seasons. His VORP is worse or the same as the last 2 seasons. He has been getting to the line a lot and that is a great step forward and has increased his TS% getting him close to .600 for the first time in his career, so there is that. But his usage is a 24.5% with a bullet (almost 30% in his 18 game hot streak).

We all had this same conversation last season. I hope he ends up meeting all of your expectations and proves me wrong. I will believe it when I see it for a season.

His 3 pt shooting is barely down and at higher volume than ever before, which is basically flat to me. Yet his overall efficiency is way up, and significantly above league average, which is impressive for a high volume perimeter scorer. His assists may be down because we finally have a real point doing most of that work. Same with rebounding (stronger rebounders IMO with Giddey and Matas replacing Patrick etc). His turnovers/100 are barely above his career average and he's at his lowest fouls/100 of his career. IMO stats like VORP and BPM are straight up garbage.

If you don't think his season overall has been at least that of a solid starter I don't think we can go further in the discussion. I consider that an outrageous claim.

Then we should go no further.

Fair enough. Just know that yours is the extreme viewpoint likely shared by extremely few nba fans. Nobody is calling him a great player (yet). But he's certainly played like at least a solid starter this year, I guarantee you at least 3/4s of nba fans and observers would agree. But I respect a contrary opinion. I certainly have plenty of my own.

[MrSparkle]

Bulls have tons of cap space in 2027. So in the less likely scenario Coby becomes a top-10 guard and demands the open market max, Bulls should be able to offer it as a priority (instead of resigning Huerter, Collins and whoever).

They should (and maybe will?) try and dump Patrick somehow, some way. That’ll give them much more flexibility. Otherwise it’ll be Giddey (hopefully not over 30M), Jalen (9M) and rookie deals on the books, so theoretically room for 2 max contracts unless they go bananas resigning and signing everybody next year.

[Indomitable]

His 3 pt shooting is barely down and at higher volume than ever before, which is basically flat to me. Yet his overall efficiency is way up, and significantly above league average, which is impressive for a high volume perimeter scorer. His assists may be down because we finally have a real point doing most of that work. Same with rebounding (stronger rebounders IMO with Giddey and Matas replacing Patrick etc). His turnovers/100 are barely above his career average and he's at his lowest fouls/100 of his career. IMO stats like VORP and BPM are straight up garbage.

If you don't think his season overall has been at least that of a solid starter I don't think we can go further in the discussion. I consider that an outrageous claim.

Then we should go no further.

Fair enough. Just know that yours is the extreme viewpoint likely shared by extremely few nba fans. Nobody is calling him a great player (yet). But he's certainly played like at least a solid starter this year, I guarantee you at least 3/4s of nba fans and observers would agree. But I respect a contrary opinion. I certainly have plenty of my own.

No, his point of view is shared by rational fans.

This is not the first time a player has done this when most of the teams are laying down.

The Raptors and Trailblazer are pulling players with 5 minutes left trailing by less then 6 points.

[Stratmaster]

His 3 pt shooting is barely down and at higher volume than ever before, which is basically flat to me. Yet his overall efficiency is way up, and significantly above league average, which is impressive for a high volume perimeter scorer. His assists may be down because we finally have a real point doing most of that work. Same with rebounding (stronger rebounders IMO with Giddey and Matas replacing Patrick etc). His turnovers/100 are barely above his career average and he's at his lowest fouls/100 of his career. IMO stats like VORP and BPM are straight up garbage.

If you don't think his season overall has been at least that of a solid starter I don't think we can go further in the discussion. I consider that an outrageous claim.

Then we should go no further.

Fair enough. Just know that yours is the extreme viewpoint likely shared by extremely few nba fans. Nobody is calling him a great player (yet). But he's certainly played like at least a solid starter this year, I guarantee you at least 3/4s of nba fans and observers would agree. But I respect a contrary opinion. I certainly have plenty of my own.

Let me try this a different way. Coby's usage has been near 30% during his hot stretch and is only going up. That is Zach Lavine pre-Vuc, pre-DDR level. It is absolutely number 1 option level usage. Do you think the Bulls can compete for anything with Coby White as their number 1 option at that usage level for a full season? If not, why would you pay him big bucks? If the Bulls ever get the #1 and #2 options they need to compete, where does Coby fit in that starting lineup? What else does he do for you as a starter?

It is why he is the perfect super 6th man scorer off the bench. You bring him in when one of your top options is resting and turn him loose, because that IS his value. You pay him accordingly.

[WindyCityBorn]

Top 15? Let's not go crazy. More closer to top 50.

That’s ridiculous. He just won Eastern Conference player of the month. And he deserved it. I can’t take anything you say seriously about any of our players after this take.

So to you winning one player of the month award in a 4 year career makes him a top 15 player? In the 10-15 range: Anthony Edwards, Anthony Davis, Jalen Brunson, Wemby, Tyrese Haliburton. You think he is in that class of player? 2 years ago Zach Lavine had a 27/3.8/4.6 on 51/39/88 run to end the season (Coby is on a 27.7/4.6/4 streak, Bulls are 12-6). Bulls went 13-11 and lost to Miami 102-97 in the Play In for the 8th seed. Did that make him a top 20 player? FWIW they started the next season losing 5 of there first 8 games.

I said that he has been playing like one. Not that he is one.

[Jcool0]

That’s ridiculous. He just won Eastern Conference player of the month. And he deserved it. I can’t take anything you say seriously about any of our players after this take.

So to you winning one player of the month award in a 4 year career makes him a top 15 player? In the 10-15 range: Anthony Edwards, Anthony Davis, Jalen Brunson, Wemby, Tyrese Haliburton. You think he is in that class of player? 2 years ago Zach Lavine had a 27/3.8/4.6 on 51/39/88 run to end the season (Coby is on a 27.7/4.6/4 streak, Bulls are 12-6). Bulls went 13-11 and lost to Miami 102-97 in the Play In for the 8th seed. Did that make him a top 20 player? FWIW they started the next season losing 5 of there first 8 games.

I said that he has been playing like one. Not that he is one.

But he isn't playing like one. The Bulls haven't had a top 15 players at any point since Rose. Scoring doesn't make you a top player. Like i posted Zach was a 24-27 ppg guy the entire time here and as much as i waned him to be a top 20 players in reality he didn't do enough other things to break through.

[League Circles]

Then we should go no further.

Fair enough. Just know that yours is the extreme viewpoint likely shared by extremely few nba fans. Nobody is calling him a great player (yet). But he's certainly played like at least a solid starter this year, I guarantee you at least 3/4s of nba fans and observers would agree. But I respect a contrary opinion. I certainly have plenty of my own.

Let me try this a different way. Coby's usage has been near 30% during his hot stretch and is only going up. That is Zach Lavine pre-Vuc, pre-DDR level. It is absolutely number 1 option level usage. Do you think the Bulls can compete for anything with Coby White as their number 1 option at that usage level for a full season? If not, why would you pay him big bucks? If the Bulls ever get the #1 and #2 options they need to compete, where does Coby fit in that starting lineup? What else does he do for you as a starter?

It is why he is the perfect super 6th man scorer off the bench. You bring him in when one of your top options is resting and turn him loose, because that IS his value. You pay him accordingly.

I don't think Coby will or should get #1 guy money. "Big bucks" as far as I interpret it should be paid to 3 or 4 guys on a contender that doesn't have a true superstar, which we certainly don't and probably won't. Do I think Coby can be the first or second highest volume shooter/scorer among the 3 perimeter players on a "contender" (roughly a second round playoff team) if the right skillsets of players among the other starters are right? Yes I do. But because he's not a strong defender I wouldn't expect to ever rank him as better than maybe the 3rd or maaaaaybe the 2nd best overall player on a team like that. Perhaps Matas, Giddey, or a guy we don't have yet will all be better than Coby, and probably paid more. Though Coby is a UFA which is rare for a guy like him of his age, so it will be tricky. I don't have a firm dollar in mind for Coby yet, but in general I'd say anything near the max is absurdly high for what he's shown and 20 mil is pretty laughably low for the season he's having for at his age and health status. So Idk, maybe closer to 30 mil. I wouldn't be pissed if him and Giddey are within 5 mil of each other. I'm guessing Giddey will get more and I'm fine with that, but I think they probably should and probably will be in the neighborhood of the same annual pay as each other.

[WindyCityBorn]

So to you winning one player of the month award in a 4 year career makes him a top 15 player? In the 10-15 range: Anthony Edwards, Anthony Davis, Jalen Brunson, Wemby, Tyrese Haliburton. You think he is in that class of player? 2 years ago Zach Lavine had a 27/3.8/4.6 on 51/39/88 run to end the season (Coby is on a 27.7/4.6/4 streak, Bulls are 12-6). Bulls went 13-11 and lost to Miami 102-97 in the Play In for the 8th seed. Did that make him a top 20 player? FWIW they started the next season losing 5 of there first 8 games.

I said that he has been playing like one. Not that he is one.

But he isn't playing like one. The Bulls haven't had a top 15 players at any point since Rose. Scoring doesn't make you a top player. Like i posted Zach was a 24-27 ppg guy the entire time here and as much as i waned him to be a top 20 players in reality he didn't do enough other things to break through.

Eye test says Coby is playing better than Zach. Raw numbers don’t tell the full story. Better decision making, less turnovers, better handles, significantly better pressure in situations(the biggest difference he isn’t a choker like Zach). And he is doing it without needing to dominate the ball.

If he does this for a full season I’ll be convinced he’s a foundational piece.

[Jcool0]

I said that he has been playing like one. Not that he is one.

But he isn't playing like one. The Bulls haven't had a top 15 players at any point since Rose. Scoring doesn't make you a top player. Like i posted Zach was a 24-27 ppg guy the entire time here and as much as i waned him to be a top 20 players in reality he didn't do enough other things to break through.

Eye test says Coby is playing better than Zach. Raw numbers don’t tell the full story. Better decision making, less turnovers, better handles, significantly better pressure in situations(the biggest difference he isn’t a choker like Zach). And he is doing it without needing to dominate the ball.

If he does this for a full season I’ll be convinced he’s a foundational piece.

Coby Last 21 games: 2.4 TOV (13-7 record)

Zach last 21 games 22-2023: 2.5 TOV (13-9 record)

Coby in a nutshell: 2024 play in: 42 points, 0 turnovers, +6 in a 131 - 116 win vs Atlanta. Next game: 13 points, 4 turnovers, -23 in a 112 - 91 loss to Miami.

[CROBulls]

It's not in Coby's (or his reps) best interest to extend sadly, so Bulls gonna have to roll the dice on UFA. They may have to trade him because if a better team with money has a spot available, he's probably walking por nada.

I am talking as someone who is not willing for Bulls to extend Coby at any price. It actually should be in his best interest to stay with Bulls because I dont see one organization in NBA who would give Coby White for 5 years since he was drafted a starting role and minutes he got. It took a lot of f time for him to start playing worthy of his draft pick position. Usually it's bigs who take this much time let alone guards with raptor arms.

And unless he continues playing this way, I still see him not changing a team just due CBA reasons while getting big money and not many teams in same time having free cap. You would rather use that money on deficit position than team adding another guard to their roster.

Coby White numbers by NBA guard standards are 20.5 pts per game (21st in NBA between just guards, 10th if speaking just shooting guard) and that's his best attribute, being microwave scorer. He averages 4.5 assists per game, which doesnt even qualify him between first 30 overall guards in NBA. He only qualify for assists between shooting guards leaders at 13th spot. He doesnt qualify between overall top 30 guards in FG percentage either, but between just shooting guards he ranks at 10th.

So in reality he is 10th best shooting guard at best around the league. I think he should be paid as much as that person. Which is Jordan Poole 30M, Anfernee Simmons 25M, Derrick White 29M. You dont want him be paid Desmond Bane money. Otherwise you might as well keep Lavine.

[Chuck Everett]

It's not in Coby's (or his reps) best interest to extend sadly, so Bulls gonna have to roll the dice on UFA. They may have to trade him because if a better team with money has a spot available, he's probably walking por nada.

I am talking as someone who is not willing for Bulls to extend Coby at any price. It actually should be in his best interest to stay with Bulls because I dont see one organization in NBA who would give Coby White for 5 years since he was drafted a starting role and minutes he got. It took a lot of f time for him to start playing worthy of his draft pick position. Usually it's bigs who take this much time let alone guards with raptor arms.

And unless he continues playing this way, I still see him not changing a team just due CBA reasons while getting big money and not many teams in same time having free cap. You would rather use that money on deficit position than team adding another guard to their roster.

Coby White numbers by NBA guard standards are 20.5 pts per game (21st in NBA between just guards, 10th if speaking just shooting guard) and that's his best attribute, being microwave scorer. He averages 4.5 assists per game, which doesnt even qualify him between first 30 overall guards in NBA. He only qualify for assists between shooting guards leaders at 13th spot. He doesnt qualify between overall top 30 guards in FG percentage either, but between just shooting guards he ranks at 10th.

So in reality he is 10th best shooting guard at best around the league. I think he should be paid as much as that person. Which is Jordan Poole 30M, Anfernee Simmons 25M, Derrick White 29M. You dont want him be paid Desmond Bane money. Otherwise you might as well keep Lavine.

I don't disagree for the most part. But let's say Bulls low-ball him, why would he not just want to go to a more competitive franchise if the money was basically on par? I'd say this is pretty easy since he will be an UFA. Either you overpay him or be prepared to lose him for nothing.

[WindyCityBorn]

But he isn't playing like one. The Bulls haven't had a top 15 players at any point since Rose. Scoring doesn't make you a top player. Like i posted Zach was a 24-27 ppg guy the entire time here and as much as i waned him to be a top 20 players in reality he didn't do enough other things to break through.

Eye test says Coby is playing better than Zach. Raw numbers don’t tell the full story. Better decision making, less turnovers, better handles, significantly better pressure in situations(the biggest difference he isn’t a choker like Zach). And he is doing it without needing to dominate the ball.

If he does this for a full season I’ll be convinced he’s a foundational piece.

Coby Last 21 games: 2.4 TOV (13-7 record)

Zach last 21 games 22-2023: 2.5 TOV (13-9 record)

Coby in a nutshell: 2024 play in: 42 points, 0 turnovers, +6 in a 131 - 116 win vs Atlanta. Next game: 13 points, 4 turnovers, -23 in a 112 - 91 loss to Miami.

What does 2024 play in have to do with now? Coby AST/TO is better than Zach’s.

If you can’t see that Coby’s intangibles are better than Zach you aren’t watching. And Zach was doing that on team built to win. Coby and Giddey are propelling a rebuilding team.

But I get it. You think all of our players are low ceiling and we have no hope.

[MGB8]

It's not in Coby's (or his reps) best interest to extend sadly, so Bulls gonna have to roll the dice on UFA. They may have to trade him because if a better team with money has a spot available, he's probably walking por nada.

Only if that team has money to sign him, and prioritize him over other players. How many teams like that are there - who will have serious cap space like that?

[MGB8]

It's not in Coby's (or his reps) best interest to extend sadly, so Bulls gonna have to roll the dice on UFA. They may have to trade him because if a better team with money has a spot available, he's probably walking por nada.

I am talking as someone who is not willing for Bulls to extend Coby at any price. It actually should be in his best interest to stay with Bulls because I dont see one organization in NBA who would give Coby White for 5 years since he was drafted a starting role and minutes he got. It took a lot of f time for him to start playing worthy of his draft pick position. Usually it's bigs who take this much time let alone guards with raptor arms.

And unless he continues playing this way, I still see him not changing a team just due CBA reasons while getting big money and not many teams in same time having free cap. You would rather use that money on deficit position than team adding another guard to their roster.

Coby White numbers by NBA guard standards are 20.5 pts per game (21st in NBA between just guards, 10th if speaking just shooting guard) and that's his best attribute, being microwave scorer. He averages 4.5 assists per game, which doesnt even qualify him between first 30 overall guards in NBA. He only qualify for assists between shooting guards leaders at 13th spot. He doesnt qualify between overall top 30 guards in FG percentage either, but between just shooting guards he ranks at 10th.

So in reality he is 10th best shooting guard at best around the league. I think he should be paid as much as that person. Which is Jordan Poole 30M, Anfernee Simmons 25M, Derrick White 29M. You dont want him be paid Desmond Bane money. Otherwise you might as well keep Lavine.

I don't disagree for the most part. But let's say Bulls low-ball him, why would he not just want to go to a more competitive franchise if the money was basically on par? I'd say this is pretty easy since he will be an UFA. Either you overpay him or be prepared to lose him for nothing.

Whoc( franchise has such ca space, and is also competitive?

[Chuck Everett]

Whoc( franchise has such ca space, and is also competitive?

(As of now) in the summer of 2026:

San Antonio
Detroit
Portland
Brooklyn
Washington

Those teams are projected to have money/cap space. The Bulls also low-balled him once. I said if the money is even. So if you're only offering him MLE money once again, yes, I think he would probably dip to a better organization. However, I also don't know what the cap is going to look like yet in the summer of 2026. Portland, Detroit and San Antonio are trending up and could be playoff teams in 2025-26.

[Jcool0]

Eye test says Coby is playing better than Zach. Raw numbers don’t tell the full story. Better decision making, less turnovers, better handles, significantly better pressure in situations(the biggest difference he isn’t a choker like Zach). And he is doing it without needing to dominate the ball.

If he does this for a full season I’ll be convinced he’s a foundational piece.

Coby Last 21 games: 2.4 TOV (13-7 record)

Zach last 21 games 22-2023: 2.5 TOV (13-9 record)

Coby in a nutshell: 2024 play in: 42 points, 0 turnovers, +6 in a 131 - 116 win vs Atlanta. Next game: 13 points, 4 turnovers, -23 in a 112 - 91 loss to Miami.

What does 2024 play in have to do with now? Coby AST/TO is better than Zach’s.

If you can’t see that Coby’s intangibles are better than Zach you aren’t watching. And Zach was doing that on team built to win. Coby and Giddey are propelling a rebuilding team.

But I get it. You think all of our players are low ceiling and we have no hope.

Nope not at all. I just tend to trust 400 game sample sizes over 30 games ones. But hey if you want to believe this is the new Coby and a guy who can average 25/4/4 while playing below average defense can be a top 15 player i cant stop you.

[Stratmaster]

I said that he has been playing like one. Not that he is one.

But he isn't playing like one. The Bulls haven't had a top 15 players at any point since Rose. Scoring doesn't make you a top player. Like i posted Zach was a 24-27 ppg guy the entire time here and as much as i waned him to be a top 20 players in reality he didn't do enough other things to break through.

Eye test says Coby is playing better than Zach. Raw numbers don’t tell the full story. Better decision making, less turnovers, better handles, significantly better pressure in situations(the biggest difference he isn’t a choker like Zach). And he is doing it without needing to dominate the ball.

If he does this for a full season I’ll be convinced he’s a foundational piece.

Yes. For about 20 games every season Coby plays better than Zach. For the other 62 Zach plays better than Coby. It's why I call Coby Lavine lite.

[WindyCityBorn]

But he isn't playing like one. The Bulls haven't had a top 15 players at any point since Rose. Scoring doesn't make you a top player. Like i posted Zach was a 24-27 ppg guy the entire time here and as much as i waned him to be a top 20 players in reality he didn't do enough other things to break through.

Eye test says Coby is playing better than Zach. Raw numbers don’t tell the full story. Better decision making, less turnovers, better handles, significantly better pressure in situations(the biggest difference he isn’t a choker like Zach). And he is doing it without needing to dominate the ball.

If he does this for a full season I’ll be convinced he’s a foundational piece.

Yes. For about 20 games every season Coby plays better than Zach. For the other 62 Zach plays better than Coby. It's why I call Coby Lavine lite.

I guess we’ll see next season. I expect us to better. Same roster with younger guys continuing to improve and build chemistry.