Cowley: Bulls Zoned in on Demin at 12

[The Box Office]

Kid has no jump shot.
He's 50/50 on defense.

AKME trying to find the next hidden gem or something?

[MGB8]

Denim’s numbers are horrid. Not plus athleticism, either. Very time the Bulls try to be smarter than conventional wisdom, they fail. Not just drafting “late riser” Pat Williams over Halli, Avdija and Vassell, but also Carter Jr. over Bridges or Porter Jr., Tyrus Thomas over Aldridge, even Terry over Kessler or Jovic.

And without his first month, where he was hot, it looks even worse. And the opponents that month where very weak.

The only hope would be that it was his knee injury against providence that messed everything up, that it took all year to gel and only now is, and that it doesn’t reflect being fragile. Big risk.

[WesPeace]

#1, I completely trust this info. The Bulls have a tendency to decide on a guy and then broadcast it.

#2, this guy would have a lot of work to do to be good at an NBA level but he is starting with a good base

He allows you to trade Giddey or Coby. Plus it saves on cap space.

He isn't going to be anything in the NBA for years. If he allows you to trade Giddey or Coby then you can trade Giddey or Coby now with nothing.

I have looked around and none of the guys who might be available at 12 impress me. All of them have major holes that they are going to have to spend years working on to fix. If they think Demin is the guy most likely to do that, then fine. I just don't see anyone available as being a big contributor next year.

Not going to be popular, or maybe it will be, but if Buzelis was available in this draft he would be top 5. This really doesn't seem like a particularly good draft year.

I could see Coward as contributor from the get go.. not just because of his shooting, but also already good defense with huge wingspan.

[DuckIII]

All this.

Demin will never be a plus defender or able to get his own shot. He would have to become an elite movement shooter and passable on D. Both big asks. His median outcome is taller Kevin Huerter. His passing would be fun with Giddey but I don’t know how you can play them together on D.

I’m fine with Demin if Coward Noa KJ and Fleming are gone. They won’t be. Like Demin iver Queen which isn’t saying much.

Demin is a cream puff. No athletic advantage. Has nothing off the bounce. Our hope would be the 3 ball. There is a real chance hes Duncan Robinson

What on earth are you talking about

After Demin went off against scrub teams he looked awful against real teams. Watch full games.

His workout videos are showing legit movement 3s with great mechanics but who knows if it translates.

What are you talking about?

Duncan Robinson is a one dimensional catch and shoot wing. That strikes me as being nearly the opposite type of wing as Demin for numerous reasons including that Demin is a PG who currently counts perimeter shooting as a weakness.

[nomorezorro]

too lazy to research this myself right now, but does anyone know off-hand a college player who had worse metrics than demin who was taken in the lotto and panned out?

in addition to him making no impression in the byu games i watched, i go to dude's stats page and am mystified by the idea that we'd use the #12 pick on a dude that put up a sub-16 per, barely .100 ws/48, 50.9% true shooting, shot 27.3% on threes as a guard, drew 3.5 fta per 40 mins as a lead ballhandler...

[sco]

Well I guess if there's a positive, if AK is gonna piss away lotto picks on that kind of sh*t, I'm glad he doesn't want to tank. Or maybe this is his way of shutting up fans who want him to tank. "You want me to have a high draft pick...BOOM here's what I'm gonna do with those!"

Or maybe this is one of his "favors to foreign agents" Simonovic-type deal?

[nomorezorro]

i am genuinely curious for those who like him - what's your vision for him becoming something more than giddey with a worse handle/speed and maybe a better shot?

or like, evan turner 2.0...lonzo without the 3pt development and elite defense...kyle anderson with better passing but not the same kind of craftiness...taller but slower ricky rubio with much worse handles...i can think of so many derogatory comps but i'm struggling to come up with a positive path for a player like him

[Evil_Headband]

i am genuinely curious for those who like him - what's your vision for him becoming something more than giddey with a worse handle/speed and maybe a better shot?

or like, evan turner 2.0...lonzo without the 3pt development and elite defense...kyle anderson with better passing but not the same kind of craftiness...taller but slower ricky rubio with much worse handles...i can think of so many derogatory comps but i'm struggling to come up with a positive path for a player like him

I'm neutral on him overall. However, the idea is the shooting and ball handling can improve in time to complement his elite passing and feel. At 12, there will obviously be some flaws no matter who is drafted. I get why he is generally mocked in the late lottery.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Well I'll be hoping some team ahead of the Bulls takes him. I have watched him and I'll look more into him but he seems like a lesser prospect than what Giddey was. Stiff, does not have much of a handle, can't shoot, damn good passer though.

[Almost Retired]

I'd take Fleming long before I'd draft Demin. Fleming is a legit stretch 4 with an intriguing wingspan. See if Brooklyn might take our #12 for their #19 and #27. Throw in a player if necessary. Then Draft Fleming at #19 and Walter Clayton Jr at #27. I prefer guys that can shoot the basketball. If Denim can't hit at least 70% of his free throws I don't hold out much hope for him as a shooter. He'd be a better passing Dalen Terry without the positive wingspan.

[burlydee]

I hope this report is wrong. This feels like the same mistake AK made with the Terry and Williams pick. You simply have to project too much development to see him having a consistent role in the league.

[HomoSapien]

I hope this report is wrong. This feels like the same mistake AK made with the Terry and Williams pick. You simply have to project too much development to see him having a consistent role in the league.

Demin has been projected in this range for a really long time. Terry was on no one's radar and William's stock sky rocketed to the top of the lottery in the final days leading up to the draft. It feels different. You may not like Demin, but picking him wouldn't be a reach.

[sco]

I hope this report is wrong. This feels like the same mistake AK made with the Terry and Williams pick. You simply have to project too much development to see him having a consistent role in the league.

to be fair to AK, at least Terry and Williams had successfull NBA architypes...not sure what he sees in Demin.

[CROBulls]

Not mad if he is a choice. I talked before that I wouldnt mind Demin. If this board likes player Giddey than you like Demin also.

He is almost 6'9 ball handler playmaker guard. But unlike Giddey I actually think Demin has little bit more playing off-ball potential. Little bit more Ginobilli in him. I think point for Bulls is to put as many playmakers and guys who can ball handle on floor at decent height.

Giddey-Demin-Buzelis as guard-guard-wing is alot of height at perimeter who can make plays. If you go at free agency for cheap bigs who are athletic and block shots and dunk. Guys like Gafford you got yourself pretty little decent 8th seed team for a decade which Reinsdorf wants.

[kodo]

He did have a good combine relative to where he was at before. He was 14/25 on the 3 point star drill. Flagg was 15, Bailey 12. He hit 17 3s in the side-mid-side drill which was one of the highest for 1st rounders. Tre hit 16. I think he showed he can mechanically hit 3s so it's up to the team on why he didn't in college. He also measured out taller than Flagg or Bailey.

I will say 10 teams discredited a mechanically good 3P shooting SF in the last draft, and now probably 9 to 10 teams regret passing on Matas because of his 26% 3P shooting. He's now one of the top 3 3P shooting rookies in his class based on volume + %.

Demin makes no sense for the team but fits the AK pick template because he has some passing ability and AK likes to pick guys with broken 3P shots with the idea of fixing them. Ayo, Dalen Terry, Julian Phillips, Matas, and even Pat wasn't a great college 3 shooter.

Wouldn't bet against this.

A little surprised we're not interested in Queen, when has AK cared about defense for the C position?

[Muzbar]

The beat part about this report is that the Bulls aren't interested in Dairy Queen. That makes me very happy.

As for Demin, I'm very 'meh' in regards to him, not excited by the prospect of drafting him but I feel he could possible sway me if he pans out.

I'd prefer that the Bulls don't project who they're going to draft, makes the draft a little more interesting and exciting. But, it is what it is.

[Axl Rose]

Egor Demin is such an interesting name.

[burlydee]

I hope this report is wrong. This feels like the same mistake AK made with the Terry and Williams pick. You simply have to project too much development to see him having a consistent role in the league.

Demin has been projected in this range for a really long time. Terry was on no one's radar and William's stock sky rocketed to the top of the lottery in the final days leading up to the draft. It feels different. You may not like Demin, but picking him wouldn't be a reach.

Its a different situation from a rating standpoint but the same basic problem from a development standpoint.

This seems like putting too much value in mock drafts and previous projections. The season he had at BYU wasn't productive. If he hadn't come into the season with a lot of hype, I just don't think people would be arguing he's a lottery pick.

[burlydee]

He did have a good combine relative to where he was at before. He was 14/25 on the 3 point star drill. Flagg was 15, Bailey 12. He hit 17 3s in the side-mid-side drill which was one of the highest for 1st rounders. Tre hit 16. I think he showed he can mechanically hit 3s so it's up to the team on why he didn't in college. He also measured out taller than Flagg or Bailey.

I will say 10 teams discredited a mechanically good 3P shooting SF in the last draft, and now probably 9 to 10 teams regret passing on Matas because of his 26% 3P shooting. He's now one of the top 3 3P shooting rookies in his class based on volume + %.

Demin makes no sense for the team but fits the AK pick template because he has some passing ability and AK likes to pick guys with broken 3P shots with the idea of fixing them. Ayo, Dalen Terry, Julian Phillips, Matas, and even Pat wasn't a great college 3 shooter.

Wouldn't bet against this.

A little surprised we're not interested in Queen, when has AK cared about defense for the C position?

He shot nearly 5 3s a game at 27% and 69% from the line. Its not like he was low volume. He was firing them up in college. Not saying he can't shoot. But he's never knocked them down beyond this shooting drill.

I guess the idea is that there is more than he showed at BYU. But it seems like a lottery ticket.

[2weekswithpay]

too lazy to research this myself right now, but does anyone know off-hand a college player who had worse metrics than demin who was taken in the lotto and panned out?

in addition to him making no impression in the byu games i watched, i go to dude's stats page and am mystified by the idea that we'd use the #12 pick on a dude that put up a sub-16 per, barely .100 ws/48, 50.9% true shooting, shot 27.3% on threes as a guard, drew 3.5 fta per 40 mins as a lead ballhandler...

Jaylen Brown and Lavine. Both had a BPM that was less than 3.