Gordon wants out of Chicago?

[Beryl 96]

I'd rather trade Deng for Iggy, then maybe if we're lucky we can get some kind of low post threat for some combo of Noce/Hinrich/Wallace/fillers, the guy I've got in mind here would be Ofafor.

A trio of Gordon/Iggy/Okafor with Thomas to bring some energy could be quite nice

[fabio]

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Why? Do you think that he will ever get another shot to be a regular starter on the Bulls? I don't think so. This board is littered with discussion about ways to get a big guard on Chicago because Kirk / Ben doesn't work. If that happens, then Gordon would be permanently on the bench.

He would be an idiot if he didn't know that.
I think the source of our disagreement is the effect of "bench" status on a player's standing in the league. The perfect example, again, is Ginobli, even though people like to bring him up on the other side of the argument. People comment that "Ginobli is well regarded coming off the bench", but the reality is that he is regarded as "good" where he should be regarded as "freakin awesome".

I agree on almost everything you said, just a couple things:

- Ginobili negotiated his contract when it wasn't unclear if he would be a starter or a 6th man, and added to that, he acknowledged he accepted a lower sum just to allow more room for other players (btw, Duncan did the same with his new contract). I've no doubts he could get a lot more money if he wants, but at the same time I doubt he'll ever play other place than San Antonio.

- BG may be a great 6th man on some systems, but for other teams he could be considered a great starter, so the contract thing is relative. I mean I'm sure many teams would be willing to offer him big STAR(ter) money even considering him a bench player. Since he has the talent, you never know how it will work, and it's a reasonable risk: either you have a great starter, either you have a greater sub.

Anyway, it looks like the trend to have great players as subs, check out Spurs with Ginobili, Suns with Barbosa, Raps with Calderon, Grizz with Navarro and so on (now that I see, all these 6th guys are latinos, so maybe BG is not suited to be a 6th man
)

[bre9]

^I think this was the best post out of this whole thread props to fabio, you had a lot great points on Gordon's situation with the bulls and compared it to other teams. Everything was spot on.

[Leslie Forman]

Holy crap, thats a terrible trade for Chicago. I guess the redemption is in the "Knicks pick" which I assume would be a first round unprotected pick this year. But I still don't like it.

Yeah, but you wouldn't trade Luol straight up for Carmelo Anthony.

Is there any way we could swing some kind of Gordon for Iggy trade either now or in the offseason. It might be possible if Iggy decides to force his way out.

That's out of the question, and it doesn't matter because they have Louis Williams.

That's one of the big reasons why Ben just doesn't have much trade value: there's already quite a few "Ben Gordons" out there. Iverson, Arenas, Terry, Barbosa, Ellis, Louis Williams, Randy Foye/Rashad McCants (real nice job there McHale), and there may be a friggin Ben Gordon clone in Jerryd Bayless in the upcoming draft. Most other teams make do with more prototypical shooting guards and don't really need him.

If I'm Pax I dare Ben Gordon to go talk to every team he can find this offseason, if he's still a Bull. I don't think a single team out there would offer him more than, say, Nocioni money, and there won't even be many teams out there that can do that. Maybe that would get him to sign a reasonable deal and not sign a one-year QO.

[DuckIII]

Yeah, but you wouldn't trade Luol straight up for Carmelo Anthony.

Thats right, I wouldn't. But your horrifyingly bad trade idea doesn't involve either Deng or Anthony, so I fail to see the connection.

[Leslie Forman]

Thats right, I wouldn't. But your horrifyingly bad trade idea doesn't involve either Deng or Anthony, so I fail to see the connection.

Because it clearly is proof that you are a certifiably insane man.

Seriously, did you meet Melo once and did he pull a Pippen or something?

[DuckIII]

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Because it clearly is proof that you are a certifiably insane man.

Seriously, did you meet Melo once and did he pull a Pippen or something?

"Pull a Pippen?" I haven't waited tables in 13 years. Or did you mean that he shut me down in a pick-up game with smothering defense?

I don't want to explain it in too great detail again, but I basically think that all things considered - contract amount, attitude, and all aspects of the game included - that Deng is the better young small forward to build with. I also don't happen to care for Michael Redd or Gilbert Arenas, two other players that many fans would likely love to acquire. Its just an opinion of mine that I realize is unusual.

[coldfish]

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Because it clearly is proof that you are a certifiably insane man.

Seriously, did you meet Melo once and did he pull a Pippen or something?

I think your trade is a poor idea. Am I crazy too? Like I said and you agreed, its a rebuild trade. However, it really doesn't shed a lot of salary and you are giving up one prospect (Tyrus) in order to get a chance for another (Knicks pick).

[Leslie Forman]

I think your trade is a poor idea. Am I crazy too? Like I said and you agreed, its a rebuild trade. However, it really doesn't shed a lot of salary and you are giving up one prospect (Tyrus) in order to get a chance for another (Knicks pick).

No, unless you think Luol is better than Carmelo Anthony.

I know the trade is a complete dump that we lose, but dammit, I want two high picks in this draft. It would really make up for that Fizer/Crawford double whammy. I don't think there is any way in hell any team out there would give up an unprotected pick in this draft unless you made them feel like they undoubtedly "won" the deal.

Also, I hate Ben Wallace.

[The ROY]

LOL @ Deng being a better SF to build with.

Melo's one of the best players in the entire league & he's a damn all-star. THOSE are the type of players you BUILD with.

Deng is ok but on a great team he's a 2nd or 3rd option @ BEST.

[DuckIII]

LOL @ Deng being a better SF to build with.

Melo's one of the best players in the entire league & he's a damn all-star. THOSE are the type of players you BUILD with.

Deng is ok but on a great team he's a 2nd or 3rd option @ BEST.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me and I'm not going to go into it any further in this particular thread. If you want to see a detailed discussion about it, my pre-season "CBS small forward rankings" thread contains most of my reasons in numerous posts.

[bullzman23]

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but I basically think that all things considered - contract amount, attitude, and all aspects of the game included - that Deng is the better young small forward to build with.

Have you considered talent?

[Beryl 96]

whos the better player, Melo hands down, but Melo is a punk, bad character, who disgraces the USA team uniform, that sucker punch he landed was enough for him to forever tarnish his image in my book.

aside from him being a pansy and his bad character, he is hands down the better player to build around, IMO Deng isn't even a player to build around, hes an amazing 2nd or 3rd option though.