Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[AkronsFinest91]

again love has the leverage. neither bulls nor GS give up those assets without reassurance from love that he's there for the long term. and they aren't going to get that assurance. And besides CLE is offering MINN a potential superstar. the best asset on the table. MINN likes the CLE deal best and that just so happens to be where the player wants to go. This is how deals get done. wi- wins for everybody.

All parties have leverage--that's why it's not a done deal yet. If Minny had no leverage--why is CLE willing to move Wiggins? Becasue they do.

We also have to remember--if CLE and Love call MINN's bluff--CLE has to have the space to absorb all of Love's contract. Irving's salary is going to more than double next season. They'll also have to resign Varejao and decide whether or not to retain Thompson at a 2mil/per raise.

Again--If MINN didn't have leaverage, we wouldn't be talking about a Wiggens deal right now. But they do.

I think you pretty well summarized why this is the deal that gets done. because MINN has been very lucky that CLE wants love so bad that they will trade wiggins, bennet, and a #1 for him. But there are limits to leverage and this appears to be it. It's pure fantasy to think that CLE is going to give up waiters bennet wiggins and a #1. Zach Lowe today said that Bron seems to be a big fan of Waiters game and he was mentioned in the essay. He also is a valuable player at the 2 for CLE which would have a big hole there if they moved him in this package. None of the recent rumors have included Waiters in the package.

Thought this was interesting also:

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantla...er?id=11260922

Lowe and Simmons both think that Waiters has the potential to be a star level player. All Star or just shy, and Jenkins said Lebron agrees. Lowe said that he and Simmons talk about how they feel like they are the last two on Waiters island that think he's a legit NBA talent, and then Lee Jenkins said that based on the way Lebron talked, he's on that island with him. That Lebron thinks Waiters is gonna be a really good player.

[panthermark]

:lol:

I just realized there is a "Kevin Martin Sucks" website for every team he's ever played on. Now that's something you don't see often for a "20 PPG guy with great efficiency" . Why is that? I understand though. It's mind boggling how anyone would want a player like him on their team. Kevin Martin has never been a contributing part of anything good in basketball. Just underacheiving teams over and over and over. and he's a weak pussy.

I'd take him on this team....
But you have to put him the the correct role.

1st or 2nd option?
Hell no....

3rd option spot up shooter or maybe a 6th man? OK...
You also don't give up much to get him.

A softer version of Corey Maggette really.... You are not going anywhere if he is your 1st or 2nd option. But he can give you 16 a night on good efficiency if his job is to basically knock down open three balls...or pump fake the three (on a hard close-out), take two dribbles, and knock down an open jumper. Maybe the occasional non-called rip move on a really weak defender.

[johnnyvann840]

:lol:

I just realized there is a "Kevin Martin Sucks" website for every team he's ever played on. Now that's something you don't see often for a "20 PPG guy with great efficiency" . Why is that? I understand though. It's mind boggling how anyone would want a player like him on their team. Kevin Martin has never been a contributing part of anything good in basketball. Just underacheiving teams over and over and over. and he's a weak pussy.

The Kevin Martin love reminds me of the Boozer love when he was in Utah.

Additionally, the Dion Waiters fan club is developing from the last seen remnants of the OJ Mayo fan club.

It's nauseating..

This is interesting and shows how Martin is really only a good shooter from one spot on the floor and not nearly the effective floor spacer as many would think.


http://hoopshabit.com/2014/07/23/minnes ... n-shooter/

[Proven_Winner]

:lol:

I just realized there is a "Kevin Martin Sucks" website for every team he's ever played on. Now that's something you don't see often for a "20 PPG guy with great efficiency" . Why is that? I understand though. It's mind boggling how anyone would want a player like him on their team. Kevin Martin has never been a contributing part of anything good in basketball. Just underacheiving teams over and over and over. and he's a weak pussy.

I remember when people wanted him when he was a rocket and rockets fans were saying you could have him because he's just a chucker.

[Shill]

I'm part of the fringe that believes we have enough right now.

Just curious what kind of year that statement constitutes for players that will have to be our 2nd and 3rd options. Because to me, it would have to be something like this at minimum:

Gasol, 2nd option: 19 PPG, .565 TS%
McDermott, 3rd option (becomes starter): 15 PPG, .570 TS%, 60% assisted

Both targets seem lofty and beyond my expectations for those players this year.

Here's a post I made in one of the Gasol threads as to why I think we'll see an uptick in efficiency:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think reports of Pau's decline have been greatly exaggerated.

There was a clear regression in his game from the year Phil Jackson retired to the year Mike Brown took over.

Phil's last year (30 years old)
52.9 fg%
58.9 ts%
5.2 fta
Shooting (0-3 feet): 69.5%
Shooting (3-10 feet): 42.9%
Shooting (10-16 feet): 45.0%
Shooting (16-23 feet): 52.2%
Three-point attempts: 3
Average field goal attempt distance (feet): 7.9


Brown's first year (31 years old)
50.1 fg%
54.7 ts%
4.0 fta
Shooting (0-3 feet): 68.7%
Shooting (3-10 feet): 44.2%
Shooting (10-16 feet): 41.2%
Shooting (16-23 feet): 44.9%
Three-point attempts: 28
Average field goal attempt distance (feet): 9.7


D'Antoni's first year (32 years old)
46.6 fg%
51.2 ts%
3.6 fta
Shooting (0-3 feet): 66.5%
Shooting (3-10 feet): 38.6%
Shooting (10-16 feet): 42.7%
Shooting (16-23 feet): 39.4%
Three-point attempts: 27
Average field goal attempt distance (feet): 10.2


D'Antoni's second year (33 years old)
48.0 fg%
52.2 ts%
4.2 fta
Shooting (0-3 feet): 67.1%
Shooting (3-10 feet): 43.7%
Shooting (10-16 feet): 44.7%
Shooting (16-23 feet): 36.6%
Three-point attempts: 14
Average field goal attempt distance (feet): 9.1


Now perhaps Pau's decline is primarily related to age, although the clear step backward from age 30 to 31 suggests there were extenuating circumstances such as a very poor offensive coach. Brown had Pau playing further away from the basket and even hoisting up threes.

The problem was exacerbated under D'Antoni, as he took him even further away from the basket; SSOL is not a good system at all for a half-court big like Gasol.

Looking at Pau's shooting percentages from various spots on the floor, his in-the-paint percentages have remained at his career averages even despite the decline. His jumper has remained consistent, save for last year when he shot a terrible (for him) 36.6% from 16-23 feet. By the way 36.6% is still better than Taj's career average from that range.

Now either his jumper is rapidly on the decline (unlikely, IMO) or last year was anomaly caused by a poor system, a poor roster, and poor morale. Gasol is obviously an emotional player prone to ebbs and flows. I think playing in a good infrastructure with a good team will improve his deportment.

Bottom line: is he precipitously declining, or was he just in a really bad situation the past three years?

My guess is the latter. I think he still has some very efficient basketball left in him.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As for McDermott, Korver's career TS% is 58.9 and has scored in the 12-15 ppg range at various points in his career when given the minutes to do so. I wouldn't be surprised if Dougie did that on 57 TS% as a rookie. He's one of the more NBA-ready rookies you're going to see in this new "one & done" era.

[panthermark]

Waiters has all the raw talent in the world....but his issue is between the ears. I posted his splits, he can ball.

Waiters = JR Smith
Martn = Maggette

I honestly think Waiters has a better chance to succeed on the Cavs instead of us. We would want want/demand him to play smart, yet also expect him to be one of our top scoring options....while at the same time jacking around with his minutes if he makes a mistake.

He would be gone in two years via restriced FA because if he comes in a "large" trade, we would not even have decent 6th man minutes for him.

[Rerisen]

This guy gets me, even if Win doesn't.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/davidhaugh/status/492489171009671170[/tweet]

this is what ive been saying...no way they woo this guy for that long and then trade him so quickly...Morey would do that. this org has been more than fair to all of its players along the way...character/perceived character) has been a big deal for this front office and ownership group. that included their own character...they think highly of themselves and are very professional as well as all about the human spirit.

So another nice guy championship to put with our other regular season champion trophies? Woot!

[mj234eva]

Just curious what kind of year that statement constitutes for players that will have to be our 2nd and 3rd options. Because to me, it would have to be something like this at minimum:

Gasol, 2nd option: 19 PPG, .565 TS%
McDermott, 3rd option (becomes starter): 15 PPG, .570 TS%, 60% assisted

Man, if McDermott is only assisted on 60% of his baskets this season, give him the ROTY.

[Rerisen]

As for McDermott, Korver's career TS% is 58.9 and has scored in the 12-15 ppg range at various points in his career when given the minutes to do so. I wouldn't be surprised if Dougie did that on 57 TS% as a rookie. He's one of the more NBA-ready rookies you're going to see in this new "one & done" era.

We need him to be a lot more than Korver. Again its not just about points. Kyle couldn't be a 3rd option on a championship team. We kind of need to Doug to be. *gulp*.

[Shill]

As for McDermott, Korver's career TS% is 58.9 and has scored in the 12-15 ppg range at various points in his career when given the minutes to do so. I wouldn't be surprised if Dougie did that on 57 TS% as a rookie. He's one of the more NBA-ready rookies you're going to see in this new "one & done" era.

We need him to be a lot more than Korver. Again its not just about points. Kyle couldn't be a 3rd option on a championship team. We kind of need to Doug to be. *gulp*.

Agree. I was just using Korver as a baseline because I think his jumper will translate immediately. I think the other facets of his game will give us the offensive versatility we need.

[GMgoran]

This guy gets me, even if Win doesn't.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/davidhaugh/status/492489171009671170[/tweet]

this is what ive been saying...no way they woo this guy for that long and then trade him so quickly...Morey would do that. this org has been more than fair to all of its players along the way...character/perceived character) has been a big deal for this front office and ownership group. that included their own character...they think highly of themselves and are very professional as well as all about the human spirit.

So another nice guy championship to put with our other regular season champion trophies? Woot!

The integrity of the organization in non-negotiable ... We will win the NBA title our way ...

[Stratmaster]

This guy gets me, even if Win doesn't.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/davidhaugh/status/492489171009671170[/tweet]

this is what ive been saying...no way they woo this guy for that long and then trade him so quickly...Morey would do that. this org has been more than fair to all of its players along the way...character/perceived character) has been a big deal for this front office and ownership group. that included their own character...they think highly of themselves and are very professional as well as all about the human spirit.

So another nice guy championship to put with our other regular season champion trophies? Woot!

Yeah, I've been pointing this out. But it isn't just being a nice guy. If they had to promise him that to get him here, and if they go back on it, no player would ever be able to trust the Bulls organization's word on anything.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

So another nice guy championship to put with our other regular season champion trophies? Woot!

Yeah! Screw integrity! Screw your word! Better to screw over everyone every chance you get - right? Damn the consequences!

[Rerisen]

Yeah, I've been pointing this out. But it isn't just being a nice guy. If they had to promise him that to get him here, and if they go back on it, no player would ever be able to trust the Bulls organization's word on anything.

Well we shouldn't have given such a promise then. He was on the outs with Real Madrid anyway.

Nor one to Gasol about starting either.

Geez, tying Thibs hands here.

[MrFortune3]

The hate on Waiters is pretty damn dumb. He's a good player with a lot of potential left.
He would be our best 2 guard from day one if we got him. I doubt Cleveland trades him, nor should they but all this nonsense where Bulls fans scream how valuable Taj is and then knock other players is ridiculous.

[Rerisen]

Yeah! Screw integrity! Screw your word! Better to screw over everyone every chance you get - right? Damn the consequences!

No, I didn't think that had been confirmed. Didn't think the FO would be so short-sighted to do such a thing.

[MrFortune3]

So another nice guy championship to put with our other regular season champion trophies? Woot!

Yeah! Screw integrity! Screw your word! Better to screw over everyone every chance you get - right? Damn the consequences!

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Yeah, I've been pointing this out. But it isn't just being a nice guy. If they had to promise him that to get him here, and if they go back on it, no player would ever be able to trust the Bulls organization's word on anything.

Well we shouldn't have given such a promise then. He was on the outs with Real Madrid anyway.

Nor one to Gasol about starting either.

Geez, tying Thibs hands here.

Poor Thibs. Being saddled with Pau Gasol and Nikola Mirotic. What more could they do to make Thibs life a living hell?

[Rerisen]

What more could they do to make Thibs life a living hell?

Funny you should ask. If we gave a promise Mirotic wouldn't be traded, then I don't think its too far out to believe that Taj is going to be getting shipped sooner or later to make minutes for the new favorite, if they believe in him that much.

All these people downsaying Waiters and Martin might want to be glad and take that before we end up with a worse deal.

[AKfanatic]

So another nice guy championship to put with our other regular season champion trophies? Woot!

Yeah! Screw integrity! Screw your word! Better to screw over everyone every chance you get - right? Damn the consequences!

#loyalty

I understand fans wanting the team they invest emotions into, to upgrade and fill perceived holes. But hoping for your favorite franchise to act like weasels going back on their word? Tell me how you feel about those kinds of people in your life, both private and business.