Bulls Summer League

[Wingy]

Finally got to watch the second game. Ayo’s defense really impressed me. Always puts pressure on the ballhandler, good hands, gets around screens well, has good help instincts. Didn’t do any draft scouting this year, so I didn’t have much of an idea what to expect, but I like him as a prospect.

I don’t think we have a lot of NBA-level prospects on that team, though. It’s pretty rough to watch for the most part, even by Summer League standards.

There's obviously Pat, Ayo, and Marko.

Beyond them, from the limited play I've seen I like Thompson and Adams as G-League/2-way possibilities.

The rest can pack their bags for international play, including Dotson who doesn't do anything for me.

I like Dotson quite a bit, but also admit that it might be tough for him to ever become more than a fringe NBA guy with his limitations. It’s definitely not encouraging that he still can’t shoot at all, he really needs that.

I don’t see anything in Adams. Thompson is probably going to have a nice career overseas, he’s that kind of player to me. Not quite an NBA player, but still a guy who can have a nice pro career. Shittu and Spellman, who many here seemed to like, also do nothing for me.

The fact that Jerome Robinson got drafted in the lottery still amazes me.

I can’t really disagree with your assessment, so that’s why I only like them as possibilities vs guys I wanna stump for.....,and perhaps not so coincidentally, neither could hit anything today.

[Michael Jackson]

Patrick is obviously talented, but not ready to have a focal offensive role with the team. That makes me feel a lot better about signing DDR.

Thats why this team as built is actually a good situation for him. He will actually have time to develop as a player instead of just being gifted the keys to the cart and expected to drive, which we have done too much in the past with our players (including PWIll last year). I think it will help White too in the long run, he can focus on the things he needs to focus on instead of just going out and trying to score. In fairness to him we technically needed that from him. If we can develop Williams and White from this point on, that makes up for the two picks we have to give up for Vuc, who in that environment we likely wouldn't have developed.

I was just thinking about this as I was watching him today, the dude is the 5th option and 19 years old playing with a good group of scorers he can learn from. By the time the Bulls are ready to move on from one of DeRozan or Vucc, Pat will have had plenty of time to make progress at his own pace. Gone are the days where Bulls nation has to heap all this draft pick of destiny BS on him and call him a bust after three seasons of forcing him to be the man when he isn't ready. Same thing with White, let them come up naturally.

And honestly like it or lump it, that is AK’s plan. I mean MPJ is developing nicely in Denver because he isn’t the “man”. He gets to grow at a normal pace. Outside of a Luka or Zion, hardly any player is really really ready to be the man right out of the box. A team with good players and good habits gives a player a better chance to grow. Also not developing too many players at once is a benefit. You can only have so many trainees on the sales floor at one time. You will get more out of a lesser talent in the right environment than you will with a greater talent in an awful environment. Certain cases are the exception obviously like Luka or Zion and other generational players. Guys like a PWill though need a good structure to maximize him as an asset imho. Most players do, it surely doesn’t hurt a player.

[Salo23]

Read on Twitter

What it means if anything IDK, but he is definitely putting more energy into his dunks this summer

Love the touch pass downcourt from Marko on the play. Quick read and decision, could have easily rushed and thrown it out of bounds.

[HINrichPolice]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Why does Pat look infinitely more fluid and skilled in iso in this video than in summer league? It can't be solely about competition (there are NBA guys in this video) or situation.

I think it has to do with his new body (bigger, stronger) and lack of skill development his rookie year.

Watch on YouTube

[sco]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Why does Pat look infinitely more fluid and skilled in iso in this video than in summer league? It can't be solely about competition (there are NBA guys in this video) or situation.

I think it has to do with his new body (bigger, stronger) and lack of skill development his rookie year.

Watch on YouTube

This is a training video...nobody is really defending. Pat is moving slow and settling for unguarded jumpers. In SL, he's (albeit wrongly, but I'm sure the coaching staff is asking him to try this as a drill) dribbling in a straight line into 3 defenders (who are actually defending) in the paint, hoping to get a dunk or lay-up.

[MrSparkle]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Why does Pat look infinitely more fluid and skilled in iso in this video than in summer league? It can't be solely about competition (there are NBA guys in this video) or situation.

I think it has to do with his new body (bigger, stronger) and lack of skill development his rookie year.

Watch on YouTube

I mean, it's also a closed gym summer pickup game, where defense is on 1st gear. You can't compare this to televised coaches organizing young NBA talent, even at the summer league level. Most the guys are playing really hard for a job, and the coaches are trying to run legitimate defensive schemes and they're looking for effort more than anything. Meanwhile guys like Pat are tasked with trying new things.

Also, it's been about 9 months since he was drafted by the Bulls and started working out at the Advocate Center. That is an insanely short time to expect obvious results. Most guys' skills training takes years to show up on the NBA court. I highly doubt there is any difference in his fluidity and skill since last year. His strength is clearly getting more toned though.

[GoBlue72391]

As a defender and in transition Ayo looks legit, but he has been a complete non-factor in the halfcourt. I would like to see him play PG in these last few summer league games, so we can get an idea of what he brings to the offense. He's clearly not comfortable or suited to play as an off-ball spot-up guy right now.

[GoBlue72391]

The one downside to Pat playing so much at PF is that we aren't seeing much of Baxter. I really hope he gets our 2nd 2-way contract. I actually want Thompson to get the other one instead of Dotson.

I don't get the fascination with Baxter. I mean, I get it in the sense that someone was able to put together an impressive but short highlight film demonstrating that he can jump and can shoot 3's. But his college stats are distinctly unimpressive. He was barely a positive net player at Morgan State - a pretty weak program - in his fourth year of playing. With all his athletic ability, he had a -1.2 DBPM. That level of performance, at that age, against MEAC competition, suggests to me that Baxter has a very slim chance of having any future in the NBA.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/troy-baxter-1.html

College stats really aren't the end all and be all. Look at Valentine, who had elite college stats. Some guys are late bloomers; some guys just take a lot longer to learn how to play the game well and what their best role is. Look at a Jeff Green or a RoCo or a Christian Wood (though he was always productive in the NBA when he got on the court - but not necessarily a positive +/- guy).

Yeah, I really can't stress enough that college stats mean very little when it comes to player evaluation. It's all about skills, tools, and projection. PWill went 4th overall, but if it was based primarily based off college stats/production he wouldn't have even been drafted.

Baxter has the raw physical tools that are worth taking a chance on and trying to develop. He wasn't productive in college and he's very old for a rookie out of college, but he probably has more upside than anyone on our SL team not named PWill. If you can teach a guy like that to play basketball instead of just relying on his athleticism then you have a nice piece on your hands.

[othawhitemeat]

As a defender and in transition Ayo looks legit, but he has been a complete non-factor in the halfcourt. I would like to see him play PG in these last few summer league games, so we can get an idea of what he brings to the offense. He's clearly not comfortable or suited to play as an off-ball spot-up guy right now.

I think Ayo can do both, but is better w/ ball in his hands since his bread and butter is mid-range, crossovers, floaters, etc.. The issue is that Dotson is dominating the ball and rightfully so, but Pat Williams has been instructed to get more shots up. What this leaves along with Ayo used to having ball in his hands, is Ayo trying to find a different niche and because he is a very smart player and winner, he is doing it.

[GoBlue72391]

Tightening his dribble would open up much more for PW

there was a lot of sloppy high dribble and bobbling going on. He has to fix that. Fast.

Agreed, and I've also noticed on drives he tends to fade into a Lauri-esque dragstep/fallaway push shot/floater instead of getting all the way to the rim for a layup.

[GoBlue72391]

Surprised by how little Jerome Robinson and Omari Spellman are producing, considering these are guys who have been on NBA rotations for 2+ years.

Robinson is unfathomably bad. It's almost mind-boggling. This dude went 13th overall like 2-3 years ago.

[GoBlue72391]

Finally got to watch the second game. Ayo’s defense really impressed me. Always puts pressure on the ballhandler, good hands, gets around screens well, has good help instincts. Didn’t do any draft scouting this year, so I didn’t have much of an idea what to expect, but I like him as a prospect.

I don’t think we have a lot of NBA-level prospects on that team, though. It’s pretty rough to watch for the most part, even by Summer League standards.

It's been absolutely awful quality basketball so far. It's almost impressive how bad and disorganized we've been. I think the biggest surprise is the guys who came in with NBA backgrounds (Robinson, Bey, Spellman, Jaylen Adams) have been dreadful so far.

[DuckIII]

[url][/url]

Surprised by how little Jerome Robinson and Omari Spellman are producing, considering these are guys who have been on NBA rotations for 2+ years.

Robinson is unfathomably bad. It's almost mind-boggling. This dude went 13th overall like 2-3 years ago.

Evidence of the crap shoot nature of scouting. He doesn’t even belong in summer league, let alone the NBA. Good for him that he got that guaranteed rookie money. I hope he invested/saved some of it.

[bad knees]

Pat has a poor handle, no real moves or fakes, and lacks the first-step burst necessary to go around a defender. Of course he can improve. But I don’t see him being a on-ball scorer/playmaker. He can be great at other things, though, if he continues to work. I’d love a premium 3nD player. Hopefully he will continue in that direction this year.

[sco]

Pat has a poor handle, no real moves or fakes, and lacks the first-step burst necessary to go around a defender. Of course he can improve. But I don’t see him being a on-ball scorer/playmaker. He can be great at other things, though, if he continues to work. I’d love a premium 3nD player. Hopefully he will continue in that direction this year.

I tend to agree with you, but I love that he/the coaching staff are pushing him outside his comfort zone. I think this year, he and Ball will get a ton of open looks (especially from 3) and are both super passers with great vision to keep our offense efficient.

[waffle]

I think Ayo is trying to playing within the "offense". In fact, he is only one of a couple doing that. He could go hero ball but I think he's trying to show that he is comfortable in a motion offense. Unfortunately, we have a few guys on this team who didn't get the memo

[sco]

I think Ayo is trying to playing within the "offense". In fact, he is only one of a couple doing that. He could go hero ball but I think he's trying to show that he is comfortable in a motion offense. Unfortunately, we have a few guys on this team who didn't get the memo

Yeah...tend to agree. The offense has largely been "get Pat 20-25 self-initiated shots per game", which is hard for other guys on the floor, but honestly, it's the smartest thing the coaching staff could do. There really aren't many chances to give your high potential young player to work on new skills against guys who are really trying and near-NBA skill. The opportunity cost is not giving your 14th and 15th men some experience, which they can easily get in the g-league next season (which I really hope both guys get).

[HomoSapien]

Spellman actually had a pretty good run with GS a year ago. Conditioning apparently is his biggest issue and he doesn't look to be in great shape now.

[GimmeDat]

Robinson was a shock on draft night. Everyone had him as a 2nd rounder.

Spellman had some promise out of college but his conditioning let him down.

[pipfan]

Not only was Robinson a terrible choice, the Clips picked him (after a great get in Shai) one pick before Porter

Imagine if they would have drafted Porter and Shai at #12/#13-that is some historic value for draft picks-they probably could have kept Porter in the George trade as well