LaVine traded to the Kings as part of 3 team deal (Huerter, Tre Jones to Bulls)

[Betta Bulleavit]

Still feeling gross about this trade. Hopefully we can move Collins or Vuc asap. And other garbage.

It feels that way because the general expectation when you trade a player of Zach’s caliber is that you will get a young player or a premium pick back. But that was simply never going to be the case with a Zach trade. I think the best that we were going to be able to do here was pretty much what we did. The only way to really hate this trade would be if you were anti-rebuild.

[League Circles]

Still feeling gross about this trade. Hopefully we can move Collins or Vuc asap. And other garbage.

It feels that way because the general expectation when you trade a player of Zach’s caliber is that you will get a young player or a premium pick back. But that was simply never going to be the case with a Zach trade. I think the best that we were going to be able to do here was pretty much what we did. The only way to really hate this trade would be if you were anti-rebuild.

I wanted to continue to rebuild with Zach over doing this trade. Hopefully we beat the odds and our pick becomes a better player than Zach. I knew we weren't going to get a good return for Zach, which is why we should have continued to keep him indefinitely.

[dougthonus]

Still feeling gross about this trade. Hopefully we can move Collins or Vuc asap. And other garbage.

It feels that way because the general expectation when you trade a player of Zach’s caliber is that you will get a young player or a premium pick back. But that was simply never going to be the case with a Zach trade. I think the best that we were going to be able to do here was pretty much what we did. The only way to really hate this trade would be if you were anti-rebuild.

Generally I agree, though I think there was some room to be made that you could still be in good position with your draft pick by simply moving Lonzo/Vuc off the team, and then you could rebuild with Zach as part of the plan and potentially have a quicker rebound if you did luck into a star player in the draft.

That said, I tend to be in the camp that Zach's time here had really come to an end, and it was best for both parties to move on. We all clearly wanted a divorce the previous two cycles and it couldn't happen in either, so good we got it this time around. Zach's been nothing but a professional, but I think the time limit on how long that was going to be without slippage (even if not malicious) was pretty small.

I think everyone was mentally worn by this relationship at this point.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Still feeling gross about this trade. Hopefully we can move Collins or Vuc asap. And other garbage.

It feels that way because the general expectation when you trade a player of Zach’s caliber is that you will get a young player or a premium pick back. But that was simply never going to be the case with a Zach trade. I think the best that we were going to be able to do here was pretty much what we did. The only way to really hate this trade would be if you were anti-rebuild.

I wanted to continue to rebuild with Zach over doing this trade. Hopefully we beat the odds and our pick becomes a better player than Zach. I knew we weren't going to get a good return for Zach, which is why we should have continued to keep him indefinitely.

That’s an understandable position. Like you, I hoped that we could build with Zach as well. But with each year that passed, the potential to achieve that became less likely. I actually think that the window to build with Zach probably closed a season or two ago.

[othawhitemeat]

One thing to add that, given our very clearly incompetent FO, can’t be overlooked. Which is that they didn’t completely blow it and trade him for that Denver package or some other desperate package to try to stay in the “playoff picture.”

We dodged a bullet that AK is perfectly capable of firing. Thank god for that. When AK is your GM, “it could have been a lot worse” isn’t something to sneeze at. Because it really, really could have been.

Arturas Karsinovas: At least he’s not Nico Harrison.

LOL, I can't believe how bad he is. I long for the days of Pax without Gar. AKME has to be a top 3 worst GM in the game currently. I hope the Bulls fire the dude after the season so we draft the right player and right moves going forward.

[League Circles]

It feels that way because the general expectation when you trade a player of Zach’s caliber is that you will get a young player or a premium pick back. But that was simply never going to be the case with a Zach trade. I think the best that we were going to be able to do here was pretty much what we did. The only way to really hate this trade would be if you were anti-rebuild.

I wanted to continue to rebuild with Zach over doing this trade. Hopefully we beat the odds and our pick becomes a better player than Zach. I knew we weren't going to get a good return for Zach, which is why we should have continued to keep him indefinitely.

That’s an understandable position. Like you, I hoped that we could build with Zach as well. But with each year that passed, the potential to achieve that became less likely. I actually think that the window to build with Zach probably closed a season or two ago.

I can only understand this is the context of his contract, which just isn't all THAT bad IMO.

I mean, we're currently paying Vuc + Patrick + Carter more than we were paying Zach. His deal wasn't ideal for a #3 guy on a really good team which is what I think Zach is, but it'll be laughable when we give a far inferior player a similar deal within the next few years. Hell, we'll probably give Giddey over half of what Zach was making to be the next guy we want to dump.

[sco]

As of now, the only players on the team with contracts beyond next season are Patrick Williams, Matas Buzelis, Jalen Smith, and Julian Phillips. There is a lot of flexibility and a clean slate to work with for the tank into competitiveness.

Yeah, I'm fine picking up guys in trades who have salary into next season like Huerter because we'll want to tank next season too, and we'll need guys on 1 year deals anyway, so may as well get some value to take them in trade now.

[Jcool0]

Bulls have just not had any leadership that has any clue how to roster build. We saw with Gar/Pax there big thing was Wade, Jimmy and Rondo and just figured it was enough talent to work. Then we saw AK with the same thing just thinking the talent was enough. Sure it works great when you have prime Wade, James and Bosh. But when you are trying to make a big three out of two top 20 guys and one top 50 guy and they don't exactly fit well & none are great defenders things aren't going to work out. I mean a properly constructed team around Zach should be able to win 45 games but they were never able to do that.

[drosestruts]

I think another frustrating aspect of the trade is that it signals yet another shift in strategy from our front office.

AK/ME came on board and very aggressively tried to build a team. Over the course of one trade deadline and a summer we aggressively added Vuc, Lonzo, DeRozan, and Caruso.

They stuck with the plan through some bad health - minor additions were routinely veteran players with an eye towards the now - Dragic, Drummond, Craig, Carter, etc.


This summer was our first pivot to something different - the team acquired Giddey, Smith, and THT all young players perhaps just needing a change of scenery or more opportunity or opportunity to play a role better suited to their skill set.


Now we're at the Zach trade, and unless you consider any of the three incoming players to be intriguing young option (which I don't) it seems we've already pivoted again.

It's hard not to view this trade as anything but a financial move, and in my opinion, an unnecessary one as I don't think the threat of the tax was that close/real.

I know all the reporters say the Bulls aren't done yet - perhaps by Thursday we'll have a clearer picture of the vision.

But for now it seems like not only a bad trade, but another pivot in team building strategy.

[Betta Bulleavit]

One thing to add that, given our very clearly incompetent FO, can’t be overlooked. Which is that they didn’t completely blow it and trade him for that Denver package or some other desperate package to try to stay in the “playoff picture.”

We dodged a bullet that AK is perfectly capable of firing. Thank god for that. When AK is your GM, “it could have been a lot worse” isn’t something to sneeze at. Because it really, really could have been.

Arturas Karsinovas: At least he’s not Nico Harrison.

LOL, I can't believe how bad he is. I long for the days of Pax without Gar. AKME has to be a top 3 worst GM in the game currently. I hope the Bulls fire the dude after the season so we draft the right player and right moves going forward.

Just to play devils advocate for a moment, AK put together a roster that he believed in and for a brief moment, it looked like it might work. I would imagine that as a GM, it could be hard to check out on that early even when people think you should. The most important thing is that he seems to have embraced the idea that what needs to be done needs to be done.

[Betta Bulleavit]

I wanted to continue to rebuild with Zach over doing this trade. Hopefully we beat the odds and our pick becomes a better player than Zach. I knew we weren't going to get a good return for Zach, which is why we should have continued to keep him indefinitely.

That’s an understandable position. Like you, I hoped that we could build with Zach as well. But with each year that passed, the potential to achieve that became less likely. I actually think that the window to build with Zach probably closed a season or two ago.

I can only understand this is the context of his contract, which just isn't all THAT bad IMO.

I mean, we're currently paying Vuc + Patrick + Carter more than we were paying Zach. His deal wasn't ideal for a #3 guy on a really good team which is what I think Zach is, but it'll be laughable when we give a far inferior player a similar deal within the next few years. Hell, we'll probably give Giddey over half of what Zach was making to be the next guy we want to dump.

Zach’s deal wasn’t bad in the sense that there are worse players making more than him. But it wasn’t conducive to a rebuild. We would have either been wasting him or wasting the money. Now, we don’t have to worry about doing either. As you can see here, I’m just trying to help you feel less nauseous about this.

[Jeffster81]

I don't think having his contract was as big of a problem as not having his talent will be. And we really only got out of one player-option year anyway.

His talent was not adding anything to this organization. So I doubt the Bulls miss his talent.

Very hard to make that argument. He was playing very well this year IMO.

Not really. He had to play well if he wanted to leave Chicago. Kudos to him for playing well to a point that somebody was willing to trade for him.

[dougthonus]

One thing to add that, given our very clearly incompetent FO, can’t be overlooked. Which is that they didn’t completely blow it and trade him for that Denver package or some other desperate package to try to stay in the “playoff picture.”

We dodged a bullet that AK is perfectly capable of firing. Thank god for that. When AK is your GM, “it could have been a lot worse” isn’t something to sneeze at. Because it really, really could have been.

Arturas Karsinovas: At least he’s not Nico Harrison.

LOL, I can't believe how bad he is. I long for the days of Pax without Gar. AKME has to be a top 3 worst GM in the game currently. I hope the Bulls fire the dude after the season so we draft the right player and right moves going forward.

Just to play devils advocate for a moment, AK put together a roster that he believed in and for a brief moment, it looked like it might work. I would imagine that as a GM, it could be hard to check out on that early even when people think you should. The most important thing is that he seems to have embraced the idea that what needs to be done needs to be done.

If AK was a middle manager running a couple small teams at a mid size business making 130k a year, that might be a perfectly fine rationale to say he's doing okay at his job. Unfortunately, he's the top decision maker in an elite industry likely being paid in the 7 figure range to not make "acceptable" decision, but to make elite, ahead of the curve decisions.

If we wanted "acceptable" level decisions we could leave the role empty and crowd source our answers on reddit. Wed' have done better than AK with that approach and wouldn't be paying millions for it.

[Betta Bulleavit]

LOL, I can't believe how bad he is. I long for the days of Pax without Gar. AKME has to be a top 3 worst GM in the game currently. I hope the Bulls fire the dude after the season so we draft the right player and right moves going forward.

Just to play devils advocate for a moment, AK put together a roster that he believed in and for a brief moment, it looked like it might work. I would imagine that as a GM, it could be hard to check out on that early even when people think you should. The most important thing is that he seems to have embraced the idea that what needs to be done needs to be done.

If AK was a middle manager running a couple small teams at a mid size business making 130k a year, that might be a perfectly fine rationale to say he's doing okay at his job. Unfortunately, he's the top decision maker in an elite industry likely being paid in the 7 figure range to not make "acceptable" decision, but to make elite, ahead of the curve decisions.

If we wanted "acceptable" level decisions we could leave the role empty and crowd source our answers on reddit. Wed' have done better than AK with that approach and wouldn't be paying millions for it.

Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that AK has been good or even “okay” at his job. I’m just saying that I think he got this particular action right. Albeit a year too late.

[Guru]

Are we 100% sure we got our 1st rounder back forever? Or is it just this year?

Yep. This trade makes it to where we are done owing picks…..for now at least.

Thats what I was assuming but LockedOn Bulls seemed to indicate otherwise.....it was in the immediate aftermath so their might have been confusion.

[League Circles]

That’s an understandable position. Like you, I hoped that we could build with Zach as well. But with each year that passed, the potential to achieve that became less likely. I actually think that the window to build with Zach probably closed a season or two ago.

I can only understand this is the context of his contract, which just isn't all THAT bad IMO.

I mean, we're currently paying Vuc + Patrick + Carter more than we were paying Zach. His deal wasn't ideal for a #3 guy on a really good team which is what I think Zach is, but it'll be laughable when we give a far inferior player a similar deal within the next few years. Hell, we'll probably give Giddey over half of what Zach was making to be the next guy we want to dump.

Zach’s deal wasn’t bad in the sense that there are worse players making more than him. But it wasn’t conducive to a rebuild. We would have either been wasting him or wasting the money. Now, we don’t have to worry about doing either. As you can see here, I’m just trying to help you feel less nauseous about this.

Well, now we're slated to waste more money next year than we would have been. The 3 guys we got have zero value to us.

[Guru]

One thing to add that, given our very clearly incompetent FO, can’t be overlooked. Which is that they didn’t completely blow it and trade him for that Denver package or some other desperate package to try to stay in the “playoff picture.”

We dodged a bullet that AK is perfectly capable of firing. Thank god for that. When AK is your GM, “it could have been a lot worse” isn’t something to sneeze at. Because it really, really could have been.

Arturas Karsinovas: At least he’s not Nico Harrison.

LOL, I can't believe how bad he is. I long for the days of Pax without Gar. AKME has to be a top 3 worst GM in the game currently. I hope the Bulls fire the dude after the season so we draft the right player and right moves going forward.

Just to play devils advocate for a moment, AK put together a roster that he believed in and for a brief moment, it looked like it might work. I would imagine that as a GM, it could be hard to check out on that early even when people think you should. The most important thing is that he seems to have embraced the idea that what needs to be done needs to be done.

The hardest thing is the unknown of the injury. AK has shown he's adept at finding talent. I'm 100% certain he would have kept building. I'm excited for what he has in store over the next week and several years.

[Betta Bulleavit]

I can only understand this is the context of his contract, which just isn't all THAT bad IMO.

I mean, we're currently paying Vuc + Patrick + Carter more than we were paying Zach. His deal wasn't ideal for a #3 guy on a really good team which is what I think Zach is, but it'll be laughable when we give a far inferior player a similar deal within the next few years. Hell, we'll probably give Giddey over half of what Zach was making to be the next guy we want to dump.

Zach’s deal wasn’t bad in the sense that there are worse players making more than him. But it wasn’t conducive to a rebuild. We would have either been wasting him or wasting the money. Now, we don’t have to worry about doing either. As you can see here, I’m just trying to help you feel less nauseous about this.

Well, now we're slated to waste more money next year than we would have been. The 3 guys we got have zero value to us.

They could if they can be used to facilitate bigger trades that we can extract value from. Don’t know if that will happen. Bit either way, these guys all expire before Zach would have.

[kulaz3000]

Are we 100% sure we got our 1st rounder back forever? Or is it just this year?

Yep. This trade makes it to where we are done owing picks…..for now at least.

Thats what I was assuming but LockedOn Bulls seemed to indicate otherwise.....it was in the immediate aftermath so their might have been confusion.

I've read some confusing things regarding this pick the past 24 hours or so, but basically yes, we have our pick back.

We didn't own the pick as some have stated, as we technically traded the pick to the Spurs with some restrictions, meaning, yes, if it fell outside of the top 10 this season, the Spurs would use the pick. And in the subsequent two season, if it fell out of the top 8, the Spurs would have kept the pick, otherwise it would have turned into a second rounder. Now, it's just returned back to the Bulls.

And while we are on the discussions of picks, we didn't trade away an additional second round pick in this transaction, it was the Spurs that traded away the second round pick that we traded them, so it wasn't our pick to trade in the first place.

[MrSparkle]

I’m just remembering I kept pitching a Zach/SAS trade last year that involved their popcorn (Collins, Tre) and our pick coming back. At the time it seemed like a trash F-it idea, but in actuality it was and is the best AK could do. Pay me a $1 to GM! My principle idea during his ufa summer was to offer a S&T to Dallas for Brunson. Boy would that have gotten me promoted to EVP.

Despite Lavine’s return to 3P/scoring efficiency, it’s telling that a Wemby-ready Spurs org still preferred to pay up for Fox as opposed to getting Lavine for a much cheaper price. They actually need the 3P spacing more than the playmaking. Castle and Fox aren’t going to exactly pair well; I think highly of Castle’s playmaking.

Otoh, Spurs know that the bpa is the way. Fox is one of the best long term young PGs they could pair with Wemby, and without shedding costly assets. I don’t love the trade for SAS, but the ceiling is nice. There’s risk - $50M max for a 33% career 3P shooter is not ideal. And with how good the next 2 drafts are, I’d possibly prefer waiting out AK’s ineptness, shoot for the 11-14 pick.