2025 Draft prospects - thread 3

[kodo]

Did the internet show any analytics of how good a defender CMB really is? I've seen analytics on the best defenders in college and CMB was not on the list. 1st rounders in this class were Cooper Flagg (damn near the top), Sorber (also near the top) but no CMB.

He's regularly been praised as a great defender, but there's a world of difference between someone being a great defender you don't have to worry about (eg, Wendell Carter) vs the best defender in the league like Draymond.

[GuardianEnzo]

He is also not the athlete that Barnes is, or ball handler. And Barnes has an inch greater reach, 2 inch greater wingspan, and is a half inch taller. Not huge differences but not nothing.

Scottie Barnes combine: 6'7", 7'3" wingspan, 9ft standing reach, 225 lbs, 36 inch vert
CMB : 6'7, 7'1 wingspan, 8'10" standing reach, 239 lbs, 34.5 inch vert

Both have long wingspans. CMB is 14 lbs heavier. He's not supposed to bring you the same things. He's likely stronger and harder to move around than Barnes, much more likely to play PF/C than SF/PF like Barnes. Barnes will rarely, maybe never, play small ball center. And I'd say a 34.5 inch vert at 239 is more impressive than a 36 vert at 225. When your standing reach is 8'10, how high do you need to jump? barnes was actually listed at SF at the combine, what pick did he go again? Would he be considered a bust at 12?

If he's Draymond with better offense, remind me how important Draymond has been to the Warriors winning? He doesn't need to be as good a scorer as Barnes to be better overall.

It would be better if he could jump high. Being an interior scoring big at 6'7 is an issue when you have to deal with NBA level rim protection.

The Draymond comparison doesn't work. Draymond is an all-time great defender and might be pound for pound the best defender in league history. He's an extreme outlier, and you can't project someone that size giving you similar value defensively. Draymond is so good defensively that you live with his shortcomings on offense. If CMB is going to be Draymond with better offense, then he has a great case for going 1st overall over Flagg.

Not to mention, no one seems to be talking about Green's passing. He's averaged 7 assists/36 over his career - he's an outstanding playmaker, and that's his main contribution on offense. No indication CMB has similar potential.

I look at CMB and see a 3 and D guy without the 3. So, basically, a D. Is that who you take at 12? If you do, you better be sure he's going to be a truly great defender at the NBA level because you're not going to get much else from him unless he levels up in a big way.

[CobysHairpick]

This team needs defense and toughness. That seems to be CMB’s reputation. It’s also been said that just has an excellent feel for the game. I haven’t watch much of him, but if that’s true, I don’t see how he wouldn’t fit on this team. Play him at PF with Matas at SF and Smith at C, who could play away from the basket with his 3pt skills. “Feel for the game” is a very valuable intangible that can really make the whole team better.

IMO, if you're drafted for D then you have to have the 3. What good is a 2&D player? That's just putting yourself at a disadvantage mathematically.

[DuckIII]

Since when was DD's problem his lack of 3?

Some good points here. IMO if Demar was an elite defender, he'd be elite. That said, CMB can't play the PF position and needs to be your C, I like him a lot less.

CMB is definitely an interesting prospect. On a different Bulls team, I like his fit. With Giddey in the picture, I like it much less so.

In a vacuum, every team would love to have a Draymond-level defender. But the offensive hub role a Draymond would occupy on our team would clash with Giddey's strengths. Not to mention, Draymond's offensive role might not be as heralded if he weren't playing with two of the greatest movement shooters of all time -- which we don't have. The players who best fit Giddey are #1 - shooters, #2 - athletes, #3 - above-average defenders.

This is why Matas' ceiling is so enticing next to Giddey - he could seriously check all 3.

It's also why Essengue is my top preference. We know he's #2 and #3 and his upside is much harder to find than the upside of a CMB-type.

Giddey fit -is also why I'm becoming a bigger and bigger fan of Coward. He could check all 3 as well.

There's a lot of interesting prospects in this draft. Period. I don't ever recall looking at a draft board and legit liking 20-25 players. Point being - at #12 we have to swing for the highest upside Giddey fit. Some of the Cs are intriguing - but I think we can address rim-running complement just as easily at the deadline as we can in the offseason.

Good post. I prefer Essenge as well for similar reasons (relating to Essenge himself). I don’t agree that CMB does not fit with Giddey. Giddey fires the ball around, quick movement. I want to add skilled passers to that all over the floor to offset our lack of a franchise scorer and build on the run and gun ball movement style. CMB enhances that.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Per hoops hype draft workout tracker: Carter Bryant, Danny Wolf and Coleman Hawkins has worked out for the Bulls

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2025-nba-draft-workout-tracker-where-are-prospects-working-out/

[Rose2Boozer]

This was Barnes first full season as the main guy on offense, and he largely disappointed. The 3pt percentage dropped under 30%, and this was his least efficient season with a 52.3% TS. The Raptors' offense was better with him on the bench this season. Yes, the Raptors were tanking and the team dealt with injuries, but this wasn't a good offensive season.

Barnes is still a good player, but he isn't a malleable player on offense and needs to be utilized under certain conditions/schemes to get the most out of him. How good Barnes is on offense is certainly up for debate. EPM, RAPM, DARKO, RAPTOR, and LEBRON, all have Barnes as a neutral impact on offense. Barnes' passing and midrange scoring are enough to offset his well below league average efficiency. If Barnes is just a neutral on offense then what will CMB be? CMB isn't the passer Barnes was predraft, and may not develop to be as good from the midrange.

He is also not the athlete that Barnes is, or ball handler. And Barnes has an inch greater reach, 2 inch greater wingspan, and is a half inch taller. Not huge differences but not nothing.

Scottie Barnes combine: 6'7", 7'3" wingspan, 9ft standing reach, 225 lbs, 36 inch vert
CMB : 6'7, 7'1 wingspan, 8'10" standing reach, 239 lbs, 34.5 inch vert

Both have long wingspans. CMB is 14 lbs heavier. He's not supposed to bring you the same things. He's likely stronger and harder to move around than Barnes, much more likely to play PF/C than SF/PF like Barnes. Barnes will rarely, maybe never, play small ball center. And I'd say a 34.5 inch vert at 239 is more impressive than a 36 vert at 225. When your standing reach is 8'10, how high do you need to jump? barnes was actually listed at SF at the combine, what pick did he go again? Would he be considered a bust at 12?

If he's Draymond with better offense, remind me how important Draymond has been to the Warriors winning? He doesn't need to be as good a scorer as Barnes to be better overall.

Scottie Barnes was drafted as a 4/3 point forward with elite defensive potential. CMB is probably at his best playing 5/4. I'm not moving Matas Buzelis to the 3 for CMB. I'm also not dreaming enough to see CMB as a legitimate small forward prospect. I think CMB could potentially be awesome for the Spurs at 14, but I'd be disappointed with him on this Bulls team.

[Muzbar]

Perry hoops hype draft workout tracker: Carter Bryant, Danny Wolf and Coleman Hawkins has worked out for the Bulls

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2025-nba-draft-workout-tracker-where-are-prospects-working-out/

[Guru]

Scottie Barnes combine: 6'7", 7'3" wingspan, 9ft standing reach, 225 lbs, 36 inch vert
CMB : 6'7, 7'1 wingspan, 8'10" standing reach, 239 lbs, 34.5 inch vert

Both have long wingspans. CMB is 14 lbs heavier. He's not supposed to bring you the same things. He's likely stronger and harder to move around than Barnes, much more likely to play PF/C than SF/PF like Barnes. Barnes will rarely, maybe never, play small ball center. And I'd say a 34.5 inch vert at 239 is more impressive than a 36 vert at 225. When your standing reach is 8'10, how high do you need to jump? barnes was actually listed at SF at the combine, what pick did he go again? Would he be considered a bust at 12?

If he's Draymond with better offense, remind me how important Draymond has been to the Warriors winning? He doesn't need to be as good a scorer as Barnes to be better overall.

It would be better if he could jump high. Being an interior scoring big at 6'7 is an issue when you have to deal with NBA level rim protection.

The Draymond comparison doesn't work. Draymond is an all-time great defender and might be pound for pound the best defender in league history. He's an extreme outlier, and you can't project someone that size giving you similar value defensively. Draymond is so good defensively that you live with his shortcomings on offense. If CMB is going to be Draymond with better offense, then he has a great case for going 1st overall over Flagg.

Not to mention, no one seems to be talking about Green's passing. He's averaged 7 assists/36 over his career - he's an outstanding playmaker, and that's his main contribution on offense. No indication CMB has similar potential.

I look at CMB and see a 3 and D guy without the 3. So, basically, a D. Is that who you take at 12? If you do, you better be sure he's going to be a truly great defender at the NBA level because you're not going to get much else from him unless he levels up in a big way.

This tells me you havent watched him play. His Basketball IQ is off the charts. Both on offense and defense.

[Hangtime84]

Perry hoops hype draft workout tracker: Carter Bryant, Danny Wolf and Coleman Hawkins has worked out for the Bulls

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2025-nba-draft-workout-tracker-where-are-prospects-working-out/

I'm happy with Wolf and Bryant

[DuckIII]

Sorber does not get bullied in the interior. He's a beast at 6'10", 262 with 7'6" wingspan. He does the bullying, plus he is a solid rim protector, passer, with a good shooting touch. He can become a very good C for the next decade.

He gives me Duran vibes...good and bad.

Duren looked way stronger, more athletic and finished through contact. That’s what I’m not really seeing in sorber

I would go so far as to say they are not very similar. Duren was an above the rim freak athlete with raw skills. He's still the former, but his skills have improved some.

Sorber, to me, is big and strong, yes. But he's not a mountain of muscle and springy legs like Duren. He's "country strong" and is a below the rim player. His lack of bounce is the sole reason I do not want him with the 12th pick. Everything else is there. I love the way he plays in every facet of the game. He's a very well rounded player. If he were more explosive, he'd be a truly elite prospect, his game is so complete. But I fear his skill and instincts will get blunted in the NBA and he'll end up more of a WCJ type. Which is certainly not bad. But I'm looking for a much bigger swing than that.

I do like him though. He's on my short list of targets for acquiring a second first rounder. You gotta love his game.

[Rose2Boozer]

Perry hoops hype draft workout tracker: Carter Bryant, Danny Wolf and Coleman Hawkins has worked out for the Bulls

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2025-nba-draft-workout-tracker-where-are-prospects-working-out/

He ran fast and jumped high.

[drosestruts]

If you're a center, and you're not a vertical spacer/lob threat and shot blocker - i don't wantyou on the Bulls

Pretty much makes me uninterested in players like:

Derik Queen
Sorber
Wolf
Broome

I can't do it. Vuc broke me.

[nomorezorro]

Per hoops hype draft workout tracker: Carter Bryant, Danny Wolf and Coleman Hawkins has worked out for the Bulls

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2025-nba-draft-workout-tracker-where-are-prospects-working-out/

i think bryant is underdiscussed in conversations about who the FO might actually be interested in, tbh.

he fits Our Direction on paper as a plus athlete who can feast in transition, he fills a need on defense, and his biggest red flags historically haven't been dealbreakers for AK (lack of proven shot creation ability, questionable shooting)

[drosestruts]

Not much today from Saraf (10-4-4-) or Essengue (4-2-2 | also was moved to the bench)

[nomorezorro]

like, if i had to blindly guess who the bulls would pick based solely on what i know about the front office, i would probably narrow it down to jakucionis, essengue, newell and bryant. (i'd probably have queen in the mix too if it weren't for all the recent reporting that they're really focused on The Direction)

[Rose2Boozer]

If you're a center, and you're not a vertical spacer/lob threat and shot blocker - i don't wantyou on the Bulls

Pretty much makes me uninterested in players like:

Derik Queen
Sorber
Wolf
Broome

I can't do it. Vuc broke me.

Sorber is a shot blocker and he's a lob threat. You don't have to touch the top of the backboard to be a lob threat. He didn't have the benefit of great guard play at Georgetown. I'm sure Giddey will find lobs for Sorber.

[boozapalooza]

Ace Bailey cancelled his workout with the Sixers. Seems like he will slide out of the top 3 unless the Jazz are moving up in a PG trade.

Wish we could find away to get involved (without mortgaging multiple future FRPs)

[dawhizz]

Ace Bailey cancelled his workout with the Sixers. Seems like he will slide out of the top 3 unless the Jazz are moving up in a PG trade.

Wish we could find away to get involved (without mortgaging multiple future FRPs)

I fully don’t understand what Ace Bailey is doing but also don’t like him enough to try too hard to figure it out.

[WesPeace]

Perry hoops hype draft workout tracker: Carter Bryant, Danny Wolf and Coleman Hawkins has worked out for the Bulls

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2025-nba-draft-workout-tracker-where-are-prospects-working-out/

I'm happy with Wolf and Bryant

Wolf at #12? Yuck.. maybe as late first rounder or early 2nd rounder..

[WesPeace]

If you're a center, and you're not a vertical spacer/lob threat and shot blocker - i don't wantyou on the Bulls

Pretty much makes me uninterested in players like:

Derik Queen
Sorber
Wolf
Broome

I can't do it. Vuc broke me.

Sorber doesnt belong to that list, he can block and be lob threat. I would be fine with him as pick, maybe #12 is a bit high, but he has good IQ.