Shams: Lonzo for Okoro

[DuckIII]

Do you want your 5th starter scoring under 9 points a game and taking less then 3 3PA?

This year? Sure.

Other years when we are better positioned to win longer term? Also sure, if it works. I don't see anything about that description (other than completely ignoring Okoro's defense, which makes the argument less than sincere, as does citing raw 3pt attempts rather than per 36 volume) which inherently makes it a bad thing.

[drosestruts]

I don't really get the arguments about the Bulls not trading guys like DeRozan, Caruso, and LaVine at the height of their value.

I don't see people saying the Bucks should trade Giannis, the nuggets should trade Jokic, the Thunder should trade SGA.

I mean if you want top value from SGA, now is the time, hanging onto him any longer is asset mismanagement - it's not going to get better than MVP, Scoring leader, finals MVP, and champ. Now's the time Presti, right????

it's convienint having hindsight and knowing Lonzo's injury will be far more serious that initially diagnosed and that LaVine would himself run into some heath issues.

[ChiefILL53]

I don't think you can do the 8-9 good guys thing that way. So Naz Reid just signed for $25M as a bench guy. Austin Reaves as a 3rd option wants $35M, Kuminga wants $30M. $25M - $35M per "good guy" is $240M for 8 of them, which is $100M over cap and blows past the aprons faster than Ishbia on a drinking binge.

The "8 or 9 good guys" is the most expensive way to make a team, so the Bulls have to be incredibly tight financially.

To be fair, I think the "8 or 9 good guys" theory is being executed poorly by AKME because theyre skipping steps. You get 2 stars that make like 25-50mil and fill the roster out with skilled players and sometimes you find sleepers and guys on ROOKIE contracts (by trade or drafting them yourself) to fill roles. Defenders, shooters, ball handlers, rebounders, etc. and ideally you find players that can do 2 of those things really well and maybe 1 other thing decently. You can take a chance on a young player that showed potential and trade for them or, if you have the capital, you can trade for a star. You need contracts and picks to do that tho. I believe all of you guys that say it prolly ownership that doesnt want to pay the money to do that, but it doesnt make it any less frustrating to see.

It's not like that bad contract would have stopped us from doing anything.

Exactly! Which actually makes it more annoying lmfao. This team makes me hate basketball.

[Guru]

I never used to like Joe Cowley. I really despised him for how he treated Derrick when he was here.

But with this new regime, he is the only media member that will ask very direct and hard questions.

Im sure he will have a field day for the next press conference.

He's the worst of a bad bunch of bulls media. Was going on a run this am so searched for a podcast to listen to trade discussion. The only one that had it was Gottlieb and Peck....All these guy do is yell and get frustrated because we don't trade for draft picks. Ignoring that we are getting the type of player we would want to get if we had traded for that draft pick. For instance if we trade Caruso for Topic last year....there isn't an argument that that is somehow better than Giddey. We would just want Topic to be Giddey and now we already have Giddey.

Okoro fits us very well because he will run and play D. Thats what we need. It was a good trade that was made using an asset that we could have just let walk. And if Okoro isn't great we probably trade him to a contender who needs defensive depth.

I love the draft but this draft pick or bust nonsense needs to stop.

[Jcool0]

Do you want your 5th starter scoring under 9 points a game and taking less then 3 3PA?

This year? Sure.

Other years when we are better positioned to win longer term? Also sure, if it works. I don't see anything about that description (other than completely ignoring Okoro's defense, which makes the argument less than sincere, as does citing raw 3pt attempts rather than per 36 volume) which inherently makes it a bad thing.

I am glad the Bulls traded for someone who isn't a defensive liability, but he also wont be making an All Defense team anytime soon either. So lets not act like he is the new Caruso.

[Jcool0]

I never used to like Joe Cowley. I really despised him for how he treated Derrick when he was here.

But with this new regime, he is the only media member that will ask very direct and hard questions.

Im sure he will have a field day for the next press conference.

He's the worst of a bad bunch of bulls media. Was going on a run this am so searched for a podcast to listen to trade discussion. The only one that had it was Gottlieb and Peck....All these guy do is yell and get frustrated because we don't trade for draft picks. Ignoring that we are getting the type of player we would want to get if we had traded for that draft pick. For instance if we trade Caruso for Topic last year....there isn't an argument that that is somehow better than Giddey. We would just want Topic to be Giddey and now we already have Giddey.

Okoro fits us very well because he will run and play D. Thats what we need. It was a good trade that was made using an asset that we could have just let walk. And if Okoro isn't great we probably trade him to a contender who needs defensive depth.

I love the draft but this draft pick or bust nonsense needs to stop.

Plenty of people show up to the UC every year and don't seem to have a problem with being mediocre for going on almost 30 years now. Sounds like you might be one of those people. Which is fine, if that is the kind of fan you want to be. But don't expect everyone to be that type. Sports to some is about winning and not just completing & they do not see this organization on a path to complete a title and that can be very frustrating. Lakers and Boston have 12 finals appearances and 8 titles between them since the last time the Bulls were in the finals.

[NecessaryEvil]

Read on Twitter

[Guru]

Read on Twitter

Who is SalimBGhoops?

[DuckIII]

I don't really get the arguments about the Bulls not trading guys like DeRozan, Caruso, and LaVine at the height of their value.

I don't see people saying the Bucks should trade Giannis, the nuggets should trade Jokic, the Thunder should trade SGA.

The fact that you are willing to equate these scenarios is mind-boggling. All three of those guys are in their primes and are arguably (definitely?) the three best basketball players in the entire human race. The Thunder just won the championship. Then Nuggets won the Championship 2 years ago and almost knocked the Thunder out this year. And there are a lot of people who do actually believe, even as insanely elite as Giannis is, Milwaukee should trade him to start over (I'm not one of those people, as I haven't taken the time to analyze their assets to assess the pros and cons).

[DuckIII]

Do you want your 5th starter scoring under 9 points a game and taking less then 3 3PA?

This year? Sure.

Other years when we are better positioned to win longer term? Also sure, if it works. I don't see anything about that description (other than completely ignoring Okoro's defense, which makes the argument less than sincere, as does citing raw 3pt attempts rather than per 36 volume) which inherently makes it a bad thing.

I am glad the Bulls traded for someone who isn't a defensive liability, but he also wont be making an All Defense team anytime soon either. So lets not act like he is the new Caruso.

Who is calling him the next Caruso? Who is saying Okoro is going to make all-defensive teams for Chicago? If anyone, then they aren't worth listening to.

[DuckIII]

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I don't know who that guy is but none of that sounds consistent with how these things usually work. How often do teams have to "attach assets" to get rid of productive players, who don't need the ball in their hands, on short term bargain basement contracts?

Not buying that without a lot more confirmation. Occam's Razor, which is being discussed in the Pels trade thread.

[coldfish]

I actually think that Okuro at 2 years $21m is a pretty good gamble.

The issue, as always with AKME, is that he appeared to get fleeced in this trade. Lonzo had more trade value than Okoru yet here we are. If this trade was Okuro + 2 2nds for Ball, I think people would feel better about it.

First stab at a rotation:
Giddey / Ayo
Coby / Huerter
Okuro
Matas / Patrick
Vucevic / Collins

There is your 9 man rotation. I don't see Noa, Terry, Carter, Smith, etc. getting anything more than spot minutes.

[robert76]

I don't really get the arguments about the Bulls not trading guys like DeRozan, Caruso, and LaVine at the height of their value.

I don't see people saying the Bucks should trade Giannis, the nuggets should trade Jokic, the Thunder should trade SGA.

I mean if you want top value from SGA, now is the time, hanging onto him any longer is asset mismanagement - it's not going to get better than MVP, Scoring leader, finals MVP, and champ. Now's the time Presti, right????

it's convienint having hindsight and knowing Lonzo's injury will be far more serious that initially diagnosed and that LaVine would himself run into some heath issues.

But the Bucks, Nuggets and Thunder are contenders and think they can win with a team built around the players you mentioned, especially since they already did it. The Bulls weren't gonna win with DeRozan or LaVine as the main pieces, that's why the argument for trading them at the height of their value.

[Michael Jackson]

Why does AK hate draft picks?

Simonovic, Pat Williams, Terry, Phillips

[DuckIII]

Lonzo had more trade value than Okoru yet here we are.

There are very significant reasons to believe this is not true. Specifically that in the last 3.5 years he has played 35 games, and during those 35 games he was still missing time to additional injuries which is consistent with his history of basically always being hurt. He has played only 43% of the games available to be played in his career, and has never played more than 62 games in his career even before he more or less missed the last 4 seasons completely.

Lonzo Ball is one of my absolute favorite players in the entire NBA, but lets put this in the proper context when wildly speculating what a player with this history is worth in trade.

[Guru]

I actually think that Okuro at 2 years $21m is a pretty good gamble.

The issue, as always with AKME, is that he appeared to get fleeced in this trade. Lonzo had more trade value than Okoru yet here we are. If this trade was Okuro + 2 2nds for Ball, I think people would feel better about it.

First stab at a rotation:
Giddey / Ayo
Coby / Huerter
Okuro
Matas / Patrick
Vucevic / Collins

There is your 9 man rotation. I don't see Noa, Terry, Carter, Smith, etc. getting anything more than spot minutes.

I cant name one trade he got fleeced in. People just want the hope that comes with draft picks

[Michael Jackson]

Lonzo had more trade value than Okoru yet here we are.

There are very significant reasons to believe this is not true. Specifically that in the last 3.5 years he has played 35 games, and during those 35 games he was still missing time to additional injuries which is consistent with his history of basically always being hurt. He as played only 43% of the games available to be played in his career, and has never played more than 62 games in his career even before he more or less missed the last 4 seasons completely.

Lonzo Ball is one of my absolute favorite players in the entire NBA, but lets put this in the proper context when wildly speculating what a player with this history is worth in trade.

Lonzo is a much better player in NBA 2K. In the real world his availability is worse than Kawhi.

[DuckIII]

I cant name one trade he got fleeced in. People just want the hope that comes with draft picks

There is no objective way to say AK did not get fleeced in the Vuc trade. I'm sure you'll concoct some theory to defend it, but everyone who doesn't troll the board with posts like "AK Don't Miss!!!!" knows that trade sucked and severely crippled the franchise.

[drosestruts]

I don't really get the arguments about the Bulls not trading guys like DeRozan, Caruso, and LaVine at the height of their value.

I don't see people saying the Bucks should trade Giannis, the nuggets should trade Jokic, the Thunder should trade SGA.

The fact that you are willing to equate these scenarios is mind-boggling. All three of those guys are in their primes and are arguably (definitely?) the three best basketball players in the entire human race. The Thunder just won the championship. Then Nuggets won the Championship 2 years ago and almost knocked the Thunder out this year. And there are a lot of people who do actually believe, even as insanely elite as Giannis is, Milwaukee should trade him to start over (I'm not one of those people, as I haven't taken the time to analyze their assets to assess the pros and cons).

I don't really get the arguments about the Bulls not trading guys like DeRozan, Caruso, and LaVine at the height of their value.

I don't see people saying the Bucks should trade Giannis, the nuggets should trade Jokic, the Thunder should trade SGA.

I mean if you want top value from SGA, now is the time, hanging onto him any longer is asset mismanagement - it's not going to get better than MVP, Scoring leader, finals MVP, and champ. Now's the time Presti, right????

it's convienint having hindsight and knowing Lonzo's injury will be far more serious that initially diagnosed and that LaVine would himself run into some heath issues.

But the Bucks, Nuggets and Thunder are contenders and think they can win with a team built around the players you mentioned, especially since they already did it. The Bulls weren't gonna win with DeRozan or LaVine as the main pieces, that's why the argument for trading them at the height of their value.

Clearly an extreme example, but there's so much revisionist history with the actual trave value of these players, and when we should have traded them.

If it's stupid for these teams to trade their players because they're contenders - then why wouldn't it have been stupid for us to do so when when healthy we were the #1 seed?

There's constant double standards on this board in general - our 2nd half performance is a mirage but for Indiana and Portland it's signs of progress and growth.

We should trade our players at the peak of their value (despite performing well together when healthy), but other teams shouldn't.

With the way the Thunder look, perhaps the 29 other teams should just fold.

[Jcool0]

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I don't know who that guy is but none of that sounds consistent with how these things usually work. How often do teams have to "attach assets" to get rid of productive players, who don't need the ball in their hands, on short term bargain basement contracts?

Not buying that without a lot more confirmation. Occam's Razor, which is being discussed in the Pels trade thread.

I am not sure where that info is from but its not from the person posting it. He is just commenting on it.