The Zach Lavine Problem

Paxson43 · Post #421 » by **Paxson43** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:50 pm

I was at this game, and I remember thinking to myself so many times just how much more athletic the Timberwolves looked compared to our roster. They were running up and down the court like gazelles and our guys seemed to be stuck two gears lower.

I really, really hope that's what Hoiberg is able to exploit with these youngn's.

rtblues · Post #422 » by **rtblues** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:59 am

sky4it wrote:With apologies, I will give you the anti-thesis on Zach Lavine.

(Er Wolves fans, the next Kobe Bryant? Be clear there no chance of that.) But those dunks just look so freaking good. Yeah so did Gerald Green's and I'd rather have Gerald Green then Zach Lavine. oh and wolf dude, you prefer Lavine to Wiggins? Preposterous.

It's my personal belief that Lavines defensive woes are simply not correctable. He has really poor lateral movement with his feet, and the long legs give him a high center of gravity. He simply got ate alive by very average guards, and was paired often with Rubio who defends pretty damn well. By contrast (Wolves dude) Wiggins doesnt play good defense because he gets outmuscled, not outhustled, hes got the skill to do it when he adds muscle which he will. He also is matched on the other teams best scoring threat that arent bigs.

But its the other stuff that concerns me as well. If the offense doesn't go through him, at times, hes seems to coast. The hustle just isnt there. I remember one play and I just wanted him gone. Against Portland the ball came off the rim and bounced to the right. Klay Thompson scurried after the ball, Lavine stood and watched. I have seem him step out of bounds with the ball several times, in key situations, down the stretch. Hes an inadequate rebounder, a poor passer, and when contested, at times he doesnt finish at the rim well. He's also a streaky shooter, and has history of slumps. Check the game stats they verify this. On offense he is not a facilitator, he doesnt see the court well and find teamates for passes. More often then not he simply looks for his own shot. In games, it was as tho someone had there foot stuck to the accelerator for stretches ( he did ok better effort), and when they let up Lavine didnt play hard. My guess is Thibs would grind it into him and it would fail. Also when Lavine has 5-6 good games in a row ( I actually can only remember about 3), he really is a complete lazy ass out on the court. I have always thought he was a headcase. As a Wolf fan, I am delighted he is gone. Now maybe they can put together a defense that works.

Keep in mind the best things one can say about Lavine. Scoring was never a problem here in Minnesota. Keeping the other team from scoring a huge number of baskets in games was. By contrast other teams had better defense so we would lose. Countless times this team lost games when they were up by double digits. But we also had Wiggins, Towns and Dieng, all who shoot the basketball really well.

And I dont think you Bulls guys are going to like him. From start to finish. My biggest concern was the Wolves might throw tons of money his way. If someone does, get prepared for sub-mediocrity.

Bulls guys, save your franchise, dont pay this guy huge dollars.

With that said, rebuilding can be an exciting time. Its just such a damn long process. Anyway good luck to the Bulls.

I just wanted you guys to have as Paul Harvey would say "the rest of the story", considering all the Wolf fan bruhah. Hoiberg is a pretty smart guy. He can probably put him in spots where he scores 25-30 points an night for several games, then you guys can trade him for a high lotto pick. Thats your best bet.

Yeah, guys with long legs can't play defense...
OK dude, if you say so... :lol:

Dominator83 · Post #423 » by **Dominator83** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:17 am

[vine][/vine]

Paxson43 wrote:

Watch on YouTube

I was at this game, and I remember thinking to myself so many times just how much more athletic the Timberwolves looked compared to our roster. They were running up and down the court like gazelles and our guys seemed to be stuck two gears lower.

I really, really hope that's what Hoiberg is able to exploit with these youngn's.

Watching this video also goes to show that people are just flat out wrong when they say that Lavine can't create for others. He had 3 or 4 excellent feeds in there, especially that beautiful feed thru a double team on the baseline that led to an easy bucket

BullsFTW · Post #424 » by **BullsFTW** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:12 am

Dominater wrote:[vine][/vine]
Paxson43 wrote:

Watch on YouTube

I was at this game, and I remember thinking to myself so many times just how much more athletic the Timberwolves looked compared to our roster. They were running up and down the court like gazelles and our guys seemed to be stuck two gears lower.

I really, really hope that's what Hoiberg is able to exploit with these youngn's.

Watching this video also goes to show that people are just flat out wrong when they say that Lavine can't create for others. He had 3 or 4 excellent feeds in there, especially that beautiful feed thru a double team on the baseline that led to an easy bucket

He was a combo guard coming out of UCLA, so he does have experience playing the PG position. He's a scorer first, but he definitely has potential as a playmaker. We'll find out this upcoming season when he gets the ball more.

FecesOfDeath · Post #425 » by **FecesOfDeath** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:17 am

I don't think Zach has any trouble creating for others. I just wonder whether he can spot them open and make the pass at the right time.

The type of passing that separates Denver and Minnesota despite the Wolves having superior talent and a better coach. (Insert blatant Jokic plug here)

franku82 · Post #426 » by **franku82** » Mon Jul 3, 2017 6:56 pm

Is this guy even playing this year?

Paxson43 · Post #427 » by **Paxson43** » Mon Jul 3, 2017 7:06 pm

franku82 wrote:Is this guy even playing this year?

This year? Probably not. This season? Absolutely.

I'd give him a full 12 months and change, so after the All Star break in mid/late February. That should give him 2 fulls months.

Ralphb07 · Post #428 » by **Ralphb07** » Mon Jul 3, 2017 7:19 pm

He could be back as soon as late October but more likely December sometime.

jump · Post #429 » by **jump** » Mon Jul 3, 2017 7:25 pm

I predict he will start making appearances after the holidays.

Paxson43 · Post #430 » by **Paxson43** » Mon Jul 3, 2017 7:40 pm

Yep, range seems to be 9-12 months. Reportedly's he's ahead of schedule, but I wouldn't want to see him on the court really until December at the very earliest.

Chi town · Post #431 » by **Chi town** » Mon Jul 3, 2017 7:45 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:He could be back as soon as late October but more likely December sometime.

Perfect. Give Val a couple months to show what he's got.

Chi · Post #432 » by **Chi** » Mon Jul 3, 2017 8:02 pm

When did he get hurt?

tunit213 · Post #433 » by **tunit213** » Mon Jul 3, 2017 8:41 pm

Chi wrote:When did he get hurt?

February of last year

jump · Post #434 » by **jump** » Mon Jul 3, 2017 8:47 pm

Actually, February of this year - 2017.

Post #435 » by **Rerisen** » Mon Jul 3, 2017 9:15 pm

Bulls might be tempted to pull a Robinson if they are leading the tank pack, but then Zach is set to come back, and he could leapfrog them back over some of the worst teams.

jc23 · Post #436 » by **jc23** » Mon Jul 3, 2017 9:48 pm

alot of teams are going to be capped out going into the 2018/19 season. Which is good for us since that means less buyers for Lavine.

The Summer of 2016 really was a bad summer in terms of contracts.

WindyCityBorn · Post #437 » by **WindyCityBorn** » Tue Jul 4, 2017 3:14 am

Rerisen wrote:Bulls might be tempted to pull a Robinson if they are leading the tank pack, but then Zach is set to come back, and he could leapfrog them back over some of the worst teams.

I could see that, but with Lavine being a young guy up for a contract would he really go along with missing the full season? I would think management would have to guarantee him a max contract for that to fly.

Post #438 » by **BrooklynBulls** » Tue Jul 4, 2017 3:38 am

Rerisen wrote:Bulls might be tempted to pull a Robinson if they are leading the tank pack, but then Zach is set to come back, and he could leapfrog them back over some of the worst teams.

ACL, if you're lucky, is a 2 season injury. I promise you, when he comes back, he will suck completely.

I love him as a prospect though. ACL injuries in hyper athletic players expecting big contracts...flashbacks to Rose, Arenas...Some players recover as if it never happened-- Jabari Parker after his first one, Rubio, Nerlens Noel, etc. Some people's careers stop in their tracks after it-- Josh Howard, Rajon Rondo (he was never any good again. He's been getting by on reputation for a half decade. He's a net negative), Michael Redd, Nenad Krstic, Baron Davis' second one...

We have no sample to work with before we have to decide to pay him. It's a frustrating spot, but he could be better than Butler ever was, in my opinion.

Post #439 » by **RedBulls23** » Tue Jul 4, 2017 5:06 am

Rerisen wrote:Bulls might be tempted to pull a Robinson if they are leading the tank pack, but then Zach is set to come back, and he could leapfrog them back over some of the worst teams.

I doubt it. I expect plenty of rust. If anything, just bring him back in mid to late January. It will probably take him the rest of the season to get back into playing shape and feel of his game.

Alcatraz17 · Post #440 » by **Alcatraz17** » Tue Jul 4, 2017 5:36 am

Once recovered...the mental game is the biggest obstacle. If a guy is ready to go physically at 9 months (beginning of November), you have to let him try if he wants. Sitting on the side buying into the thought that you're healthier the longer you wait when physically you've healed as much as the body can (fusion of the ACL) is more detrimental in my opinion.

The biggest thing in my opinion is given enough time to get back in rhythm once he is cleared to practice. Well have a good idea in early October. If I had to bet....first game late November/Early December.