2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery

[Red Larrivee]

Reddish is hypnotizing people with these meaningless workouts. Making jumpers in the gym is not his problem.

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Congrats, you made a statement that no one disagrees with. Now, the next step is to identify how he can be the best NBA player and what that player is if he achieves that standard.

It's not worth thinking about to me unless he completely reverses course against better competition. That typically doesn't happen for players with his level of underachievement. I'd rather think about how De'Andre Hunter can become one of the elite two-way players in the league. That seems more believable.

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[bearadonisdna]

Reddish is hypnotizing people with these meaningless workouts. Making jumpers in the gym is not his problem.

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Congrats, you made a statement that no one disagrees with. Now, the next step is to identify how he can be the best NBA player and what that player is if he achieves that standard.

At some point ppl have to give credit to his tools. Those aren't developed overnight and he is only 19.

Also, if the kid can shoot , dribble, and pass his floor is relatively higher than ppl give him credit for.

Like with all draft prospects, you don't want to substantiate their value, but rather cash in on it

If ppl don't think he can be 2g that the main argument to me.
Ppl say p. George cuz of measurements but I kinda see more of a rangier Carmelo.

Rangier meaning more mobile on the perimeter.Thats a very casual observation to don't overly hold me to it

[cjbulls]

This year's Darko

I think the Pistons would admit they messed up Darko's development. He wasn't given the right opportunities and didn't get to play a style the fit him. I saw an interview a few years ago where Darko talked about not working hard either because he never had to up until he reached the NBA. Those were the early days of drafting Euros and no one knew what they were doing.

Team fit matters. It seems highly unlikely Darko would have been an All-NBA Player or even an All-Star, but he could have been much better in the right situation.

Even more excuses. Darko wasn't a let down because of what happened in Detroit. His failure is on him. I doubt any team could have gotten the most out of Darko. Guys either want it or they don't.

Draft experts agree one of the largest keys to success is the team that drafts you. Prospects head down different career paths depending on their first opportunities.

[Red Larrivee]

Reddish is hypnotizing people with these meaningless workouts. Making jumpers in the gym is not his problem.

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Congrats, you made a statement that no one disagrees with. Now, the next step is to identify how he can be the best NBA player and what that player is if he achieves that standard.

At some point ppl have to give credit to his tools. Those aren't developed overnight and he is only 19.

Also, if the kid can shoot , dribble, and pass his floor is relatively higher than ppl give him credit for.

Like with all draft prospects, you don't want to substantiate their value, but rather cash in on it

If ppl don't think he can be 2g that the main argument to me.
Ppl say p. George cuz of measurements but I kinda see more of a rangier Carmelo.

Rangier meaning more mobile on the perimeter.

At some point you have to give credit to the awful season he just had which showed zero glimpses of a player who's going to be a future star in the NBA.

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[bearadonisdna]

Congrats, you made a statement that no one disagrees with. Now, the next step is to identify how he can be the best NBA player and what that player is if he achieves that standard.

At some point ppl have to give credit to his tools. Those aren't developed overnight and he is only 19.

Also, if the kid can shoot , dribble, and pass his floor is relatively higher than ppl give him credit for.

Like with all draft prospects, you don't want to substantiate their value, but rather cash in on it

If ppl don't think he can be 2g that the main argument to me.
Ppl say p. George cuz of measurements but I kinda see more of a rangier Carmelo.

Rangier meaning more mobile on the perimeter.

At some point you have to give credit to the awful season he just had that showed zero glimpses of a player who's going to be a future star in the NBA.

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If I can recall your reasonings:

The bulls aren't drafting a star 7.
- Red Larrivee.

[cjbulls]

Reddish is hypnotizing people with these meaningless workouts. Making jumpers in the gym is not his problem.

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Congrats, you made a statement that no one disagrees with. Now, the next step is to identify how he can be the best NBA player and what that player is if he achieves that standard.

It's not worth thinking about to me unless he completely reverses course against better competition. That typically doesn't happen for players with his level of underachievement. I'd rather think about how De'Andre Hunter can become one of the elite two-way players in the league. That seems more believable.

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Well then you aren't very complete in your analysis. You could be sitting on a gold mine, but because it's hard work you just won't try. Or are you saying because his flaws are not going to be available to us outsiders? Because that is fair.

I would take Hunter over Reddish too for whatever it's worth. This whole conversation was started just to say it will be interesting to see what environment Reddish goes to because it could have a big effect on his career. I'm leaning towards him better off in Cleveland where he can have free reign to be aggressive and run offense. Plus, if he goes to Cleveland it increases the chances that Hunter falls!

[Red Larrivee]

If I can recall your reasonings:

The bulls aren't drafting a star 7.
- Red Larivee.

They most likely aren't. If you're drafting on the idea of which player has the most star potential, it's not Reddish.

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[JimmyJammer]

No Garland or Culver and I’m moving back.

Please don’t stay there and draft Coby White or Hunter. Dont want safe low ceilings picks.

Low ceiling? Do you really know what you are saying? As far as I know, Coby White has overachieved at every level. Coming out of high school as a prolific scoring shooting guard, he was never expected to be the starting point guard for a reputable program like UNC and a demanding coach like Roy Williams, but he did from day one despite the odds. That shows character, upside, skills and IQ. I would not mind having him on board if the organization determines that he fits.

[Red Larrivee]

Well then you aren't very complete in your analysis. You could be sitting on a gold mine, but because it's hard work you just won't try. Or are you saying because his flaws are not going to be available to us outsiders? Because that is fair.

I would take Hunter over Reddish too for whatever it's worth. This whole conversation was started just to say it will be interesting to see what environment Reddish goes to because it could have a big effect on his career. I'm leaning towards him better off in Cleveland where he can have free reign to be aggressive and run offense. Plus, if he goes to Cleveland it increases the chances that Hunter falls!

I'm complete in my analysis. I watched a lot of Reddish during the season and waited for him to breakout. I was a huge fan of his; check the earlier draft threads. I went through the "Maybe Reddish is a potential star; Duke just isn't using him right" phase. It's hard to carry on when the evidence against it continues to mount.

Again, go back and look at the NBA careers of elite prospects who underwhelmed in college. It's not a great list of players. A few of them become useful players, but none of them became stars. Reddish is facing extremely long odds of stardom at the next level.

You can't even call it swinging for the fences; it's a fastball in the dirt.



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[JohnnyKILLroy]

I think the Pistons would admit they messed up Darko's development. He wasn't given the right opportunities and didn't get to play a style the fit him. I saw an interview a few years ago where Darko talked about not working hard either because he never had to up until he reached the NBA. Those were the early days of drafting Euros and no one knew what they were doing.

Team fit matters. It seems highly unlikely Darko would have been an All-NBA Player or even an All-Star, but he could have been much better in the right situation.

Even more excuses. Darko wasn't a let down because of what happened in Detroit. His failure is on him. I doubt any team could have gotten the most out of Darko. Guys either want it or they don't.

Draft experts agree one of the largest keys to success is the team that drafts you. Prospects head down different career paths depending on their first opportunities.

Yeah I don't know what to tell you. Fundamentally I'm opposed to excuses.

Darko had plenty of opportunities to make something of his career beyond journey-man center.

A rookie deal is temporary.

No Excuses - No bull

[bearadonisdna]

If I can recall your reasonings:

The bulls aren't drafting a star 7.
- Red Larivee.

They most likely aren't. If you're drafting on the idea of which player has the most star potential, it's not Reddish.

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You can't really draft potential. It's like drafting a rainbow.
Draft value has to be objective in context to the team.
Wouldn't be trying to pull your chain with Reddish. Tools and physical profile can go a long way

College Tony Snell topped out at around cams current production but was in his 3rd year and in a bad conference.

[johnnyvann840]

Congrats, you made a statement that no one disagrees with. Now, the next step is to identify how he can be the best NBA player and what that player is if he achieves that standard.

At some point ppl have to give credit to his tools. Those aren't developed overnight and he is only 19.

Also, if the kid can shoot , dribble, and pass his floor is relatively higher than ppl give him credit for.

Like with all draft prospects, you don't want to substantiate their value, but rather cash in on it

If ppl don't think he can be 2g that the main argument to me.
Ppl say p. George cuz of measurements but I kinda see more of a rangier Carmelo.

Rangier meaning more mobile on the perimeter.

At some point you have to give credit to the awful season he just had which showed zero glimpses of a player who's going to be a future star in the NBA.

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I have to agree 100%. Somebody posted a tweet about him looking stiff and that everything he does predetermined. That is exactly what I see. I see a player who is not capable of changing on the fly or making quick decisions.

I know this much.. I would stay away from him in this draft. I just don't see anything there except a smooth shooting stroke when there is nobody near him. That is worth nothing in the NBA.

The thing he's missing is the very thing that cannot be taught and doesn't develop. You either have it or you don't. Some guys have it, most guys don't. He doesn't.

[bearadonisdna]

More subjectively:
Looking at the prospects like cars may be able to give some perspective.
Like buying a new car.
-Right now garland is in the shop.
-Hunter is like a hummer.
- White is like a fast 2 seater coupe.
-Cam is a lambo that needs a new engine but it's still running.

If only we could have had a slice of Zion pizza. Mmm hmm That would have been good.

[Leslie Forman]

Somebody wanna tell me what makes Cam Reddish not Martell Webster?

[Chicagoat]

Lets just hope L.A, Phoenix, or Cleveland see something in Reddish. Personally I don't want anything to do with Reddish. He might become something if drafted to the right franchise. And he might meet his potential if everything manages to fall in place.


But its not worth the trouble to deal with a prospect with so many red flags(more than Bol imo). At this points its not being ballsy but being stupid.

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[Red Larrivee]

If I can recall your reasonings:

The bulls aren't drafting a star 7.
- Red Larivee.

They most likely aren't. If you're drafting on the idea of which player has the most star potential, it's not Reddish.

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You can't really draft potential. It's like drafting a rainbow.
Draft value has to be objective in context to the team.
Wouldn't be trying to pull your chain with Reddish. Tools and physical profile can go a long way

College Tony Snell topped out at around cams current production but was in his 3rd year and in a bad conference.

It's a matter of how translatable your tools are. Reddish's tools didn't translate to college well; so why would I suddenly believe those same tools are that of a star? There's a very real possibility that Reddish looks the part, but doesn't have the feel, IQ, or intangibles to be a really good player. That's the vibe he presented at Duke.

Looking like Paul George or some other perennial all-star physically isn't what you should run with without context.

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[johnnyvann840]

Read on Twitter

Found this interesting.

This is what I was talking about.

He's not good and the physical tools are there. What does that tell you?

-----------

Yeah I'm not into making excuses for a kid that played that bad.

Lack of Production.
Lack of IQ
Lack of Dog
Lack of Heart

But - "He shoots a pretty ball and "looks" the part"

Bingo.

[bearadonisdna]

Somebody wanna tell me what makes Cam Reddish not Martell Webster?

Martell Webster is the kind of guy the bulls couldn't sign in FA.

[JimmyJammer]

Well then you aren't very complete in your analysis. You could be sitting on a gold mine, but because it's hard work you just won't try. Or are you saying because his flaws are not going to be available to us outsiders? Because that is fair.

I would take Hunter over Reddish too for whatever it's worth. This whole conversation was started just to say it will be interesting to see what environment Reddish goes to because it could have a big effect on his career. I'm leaning towards him better off in Cleveland where he can have free reign to be aggressive and run offense. Plus, if he goes to Cleveland it increases the chances that Hunter falls!

I'm complete in my analysis. I watched a lot of Reddish during the season and waited for him to breakout. I was a huge fan of his; check the earlier draft threads. I went through the "Maybe Reddish is a potential star; Duke just isn't using him right" phase. It's hard to carry on when the evidence against it continues to mount.

Again, go back and look at the NBA careers of elite prospects who underwhelmed in college. It's not a great list of players. A few of them become useful players, but none of them became stars. Reddish is facing extremely long odds of stardom at the next level.

You can't even call it swinging for the fences; it's a fastball in the dirt.

Your argument is quite solid, so I can really get behind it. However, that still never means there is not at least a minimum chance he'll blow up in the NBA. That minimum chance is what many fans out here are clinging up to, just like the 12.5% chance we had of landing Zion. Based on what I have been witnessing on this board lately, there are some fans who would rather experience a failed Reddish experience than going for safe low-ceiling player. It is what it is.

[Red Larrivee]

Yeah I'm not into making excuses for a kid that played that bad.

Lack of Production.
Lack of IQ
Lack of Dog
Lack of Heart

But - "He shoots a pretty ball and "looks" the part"

Basically: Ben McLemore without the college production or flashes.

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