GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2

[Wingy]

I thought that his middle name started with an A, and that's what gave secondary fuel to Paw, but alas it's Lee.

Again, it isn’t “paw”, that isn’t the name. It’s THE PAW, obviously in reference to his humongous hands being able to Palm the ball like a polar bear paw.

It’s actually disturbing how difficult it is for this fanbase to grasp. Like did people not see the play where King coined it?

We get it. It’s just dumb like most everything that dribbles out of King’s mouth.

[coldfish]

Patrick had 4 points on 1 for 4 shooting, 4 assists, 1 rebound, 1 steal, 1 TO and 3 fouls last night in 32 minutes.

At some point this is going to get worrying. Yes, I realize he is 19 but the knock on him coming into the league was his aggression or lack thereof. He is frequently completely invisible on the floor.

[BahamaBull]

Patrick had 4 points on 1 for 4 shooting, 4 assists, 1 rebound, 1 steal, 1 TO and 3 fouls last night in 32 minutes.

At some point this is going to get worrying. Yes, I realize he is 19 but the knock on him coming into the league was his aggression or lack thereof. He is frequently completely invisible on the floor.

This!

Hard to criticize a 19 year old rookie and I wont...Love his potential but maaaan...He NEEDS to be aggressive...He was a ghost last night...

[sco]

Patrick had 4 points on 1 for 4 shooting, 4 assists, 1 rebound, 1 steal, 1 TO and 3 fouls last night in 32 minutes.

At some point this is going to get worrying. Yes, I realize he is 19 but the knock on him coming into the league was his aggression or lack thereof. He is frequently completely invisible on the floor.

This!

Hard to criticize a 19 year old rookie and I wont...Love his potential but maaaan...He NEEDS to be aggressive...He was a ghost last night...

He had a couple drives to the rim where he stopped short and passed it.

[Lexluthor]

The Kawhi Leonard's comparison need to stop. He plays to timid

[BahamaBull]

Patrick had 4 points on 1 for 4 shooting, 4 assists, 1 rebound, 1 steal, 1 TO and 3 fouls last night in 32 minutes.

At some point this is going to get worrying. Yes, I realize he is 19 but the knock on him coming into the league was his aggression or lack thereof. He is frequently completely invisible on the floor.

This!

Hard to criticize a 19 year old rookie and I wont...Love his potential but maaaan...He NEEDS to be aggressive...He was a ghost last night...

He had a couple drives to the rim where he stopped short and passed it.

A "couple drives to the rim" in 32 minutes is not nearly enough.

[Ice Man]

On a good team, Patrick would be getting 10 to 15 minutes off the bench, which is plenty for a 19 year old learning his craft. Here, he starts. Shrug. I don't expect much and most nights, that's what I get.

[Repeat 3-peat]

The Kawhi Leonard's comparison need to stop. He plays to timid

PW shouldn't have those lofty expectations to begin with, but Kawhi looked the same his rookie year, he had some solid scoring games and then some awful scoring games(under 5pts), And he had two years of full college experience and got coached by Pop.

[DuckIII]

Patrick had 4 points on 1 for 4 shooting, 4 assists, 1 rebound, 1 steal, 1 TO and 3 fouls last night in 32 minutes.

At some point this is going to get worrying. Yes, I realize he is 19 but the knock on him coming into the league was his aggression or lack thereof. He is frequently completely invisible on the floor.

Last night he seemed especially passive. I’ve viewed his rookie season as one in which, though starting, he’s in a significantly reduced learning role (offensively) as a matter of coaching and developmental strategy.

But damn, he can’t be THAT passive. At some point before the end of this season, especially if the organization reaches a point that it punts on postseason hopes, had needs to try to assert himself more offensively.

Long view still needed. I’ve predicted that in his 4th season he will establish himself as a franchise talent. With improvement along the way of course. So there is ample time. But it would be reassuring if we see a notable step forward at some point this season as well.

[FriedRise]

It'll be hard for PW to get going in that starting lineup. He's usually tasked with guarding the other team's best wing, and offensively he's automatically the 5th option behind every one of our starters. This is why I think he's better of coming off the bench so he has more freedom to get his. If you just want somebody to defend and hit the occasional 3 as a 5th offensive option, Temple is your guy.

It's too bad that the lineups and rotations are set in stone for the season because I think we can mix and match to achieve a better balance and outcome. And I don't even think it's about player development either; you can still develop, learn, and be a productive player coming off the bench in your first/second season as you learn the game. There's nothing wrong with that.

[coldfish]

Patrick had 4 points on 1 for 4 shooting, 4 assists, 1 rebound, 1 steal, 1 TO and 3 fouls last night in 32 minutes.

At some point this is going to get worrying. Yes, I realize he is 19 but the knock on him coming into the league was his aggression or lack thereof. He is frequently completely invisible on the floor.

Last night he seemed especially passive. I’ve viewed his rookie season as one in which, though starting, he’s in a significantly reduced learning role (offensively) as a matter of coaching and developmental strategy.

But damn, he can’t be THAT passive. At some point before the end of this season, especially if the organization reaches a point that it punts on postseason hopes, had needs to try to assert himself more offensively.

Long view still needed. I’ve predicted that in his 4th season he will establish himself as a franchise talent. With improvement along the way of course. So there is ample time. But it would be reassuring if we see a notable step forward at some point this season as well.

That's kind of where I'm at. I would be happy if he was mixing in some positive games. Given that it was a week since we had seen him play, last night got a lot of attention.

Hopefully he bounces back. The Bulls really have a lot riding on him becoming a good player.

[sco]

It'll be hard for PW to get going in that starting lineup. He's usually tasked with guarding the other team's best wing, and offensively he's automatically the 5th option behind every one of our starters. This is why I think he's better of coming off the bench so he has more freedom to get his. If you just want somebody to defend and hit the occasional 3 as a 5th offensive option, Temple is your guy.

It's too bad that the lineups and rotations are set in stone for the season because I think we can mix and match to achieve a better balance and outcome. And I don't even think it's about player development either; you can still develop, learn, and be a productive player coming off the bench in your first/second season as you learn the game. There's nothing wrong with that.

I think replacing Coby with a better passing PG (I like Rubio these days), would help Pat. That said, I think BD's offense puts a pass-first mentality into guys heads...everyone seemingly except our PG. And look, our offense is pretty decent, but it doesn't help guys like Pat (and Carter) shoot more.

[MrSparkle]

Patrick had 4 points on 1 for 4 shooting, 4 assists, 1 rebound, 1 steal, 1 TO and 3 fouls last night in 32 minutes.

At some point this is going to get worrying. Yes, I realize he is 19 but the knock on him coming into the league was his aggression or lack thereof. He is frequently completely invisible on the floor.

PW's SF line-ups with WCJ/Gafford and Lauri/Thad (where he's obviously the 3), even Otto... are really brutal. Of course that is on our bad bigs.. but the offense turns into a square wheel and nobody can do anything but chuck a 3P in iso when we go big with Pat at SF. If he was effective at SF, then we wouldn't look monumentally better with Valentine, Sato or Temple at the 3.

IMO we're looking more at Mikal Bridges than Kawhi. Hopefully an in-between. His potential to shoot that mid-ranger, he can become an automatic 1-on-1 threat. But I'm having a hard-time seeing him draw double-teams (as a primary handler), the way he dribbles. The ball doesn't stay glued to his hands. Before anyone imagined rookie Jimmy Butler could do more than defend, I noticed that he rarely turned the ball over, besides for when he drove into complete traps/walls (by that point he was facing double and triple-team coverage). That's very important.

Pat's TO rate is kinda high for his low usage. 14.2% TO on 15.5% USG. It's concerning because like you said, he's not really being aggressive either.

Rookie Jimmy had 11.9% TO on 14.9% USG in his very limited rookie year, before bringing it way down in his 2nd year (9.2% TO & 14.2% USG). Rookie Kawhi had 9% TO on 14.5% USG (he's currently at 8% TO on 30% USG, which is insane).

I've always targeted handles as the tell-tale sign of a star. Patrick is gonna be a little more complicated to analyze, because he's got a wide range of skills, and does have good handles, albeit loose. IMO his development is going to have to include foot-work and post-ups (and obviously shooting %, which I'm confident about). I don't think he'll take advantage of wings by facing-up, unless he just shoots over them while squaring up, ala Melo/Jordan/Kawhi. He does have that intimidating palm-fake.

I'm not seeing him as a "give me the ball and get out my way" type of player. To go back to your premise, I agree... I'm a bit worried- hoping our hype #4 pick isn't a taller Lu Dort.

[Ice Man]

Rookie Kawhi had 9% TO on 14.5% USG (he's currently at 8% TO on 30% USG, which is insane).

Tatum is at 10% and 30% this year, which is pretty close.

A useful addition to those two stats is to consider assists. For example, Zach and LeBron are both at 15%/31% this season, but they play rather different roles in their team's offenses. Or, to put another way, if LeBron's TO rate matches that of Zach, it means that effectively LeBron is more careful with the ball, because he makes a lot more passes than Zach does.

[Magic beans]

Last night vs MIA - he goes 3pts 2rbs in 21mins?

I know 19yr old rookie, usually guarding opponents best wing, etc but I want to see more please.

[ZOMG]

Last night vs MIA - he goes 3pts 2rbs in 21mins?

I know 19yr old rookie, usually guarding opponents best wing, etc but I want to see more please.

Its not that he didn't try. Lost count on how many times Pat was either stripped or blocked, or just threw the ball out of bounds.

No way around it - he sucks right now and shouldn't be starting.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

P.Williams is pure small forward. If you want star in 5 years, he should only play sf and shooting and handling ball more. He needs to play Paul George style of bball not Mikael/Miles Bridges/M.Morris role.

[VolumePoster]

As the first pick of the AKME era there’s a bit of extra attention paid to Patrick. He should and will be given time. That said, it looks pretty bad right now, present and future. He lacks on court aggression and awareness; and I’m hard pressed to suggest he has elite skills or physical attributes. Maybe he will evolve, but that could be said for virtually any first round pick.

There’s a lot of clamor for him to try and assert himself in games. Rightfully so. The stickler is that when he tries, he usually gets his ass handed to him, whether it’s being stuffed or stripped.

At this point I sit him down. A pump and dump with OPJ may benefit everyone more; pat included.

[chefo]

I know people don’t see it that way, but PaW’s biggest competition on the roster is not Lauri or Otto—it’s Coby. For PaW to go anywhere in his career, he’ll need to have an on-ball game. Which, he’ll never get to develop unless he moves to the bench or Coby with his 70 touches a game is no longer here. In coach D’s scheme, the Two Gs get first option usage, the C get second option usage, and everybody else gets what’s leftover.

For a player to do well outside of the ball handler or screen-setter, he needs to be a hyper-efficient role player like Sato or an efficiency freak like Lauri who gets second option output out of 4th option touches.

So, to be a star, PaW needs to either be the G, or the C. Given what they drafted him for, a G is probably the route they’ll go for in the future... and Coby’s sitting right in the way.

[Clocian]

As some pointed out, being aggressive in looking for his shot is his biggest weakness right now imo. Some of that has to deal with facing teams with tough defense, and some has to deal with just personal growth. As I mentioned before, I'm here for the long ride, he'll get better in the off season and willfully with better teammates, that'll also help him with his game. For someone shooting 46% fg , 40% from 3, and almost 5 rpg, reading this board you would think he was the worst rookie in the draft.