Coby White discussion thread

[GoBlue72391]

Also, his defense remains bad.

It is, but it's no longer so damaging, because he is generally surrounded by at least two of Ball, Caruso, Ayo, Green, and Jones. When you have 2 or 3 wolves out there, you can partially hide the sheep.

We now thoroughly know who Coby is. No more PG fantasies, or hopes that he will become a legit two-way player. He is a scorer, plain and simple. But potentially a very good one. He's more than a shooter, he can drive and make plays near the basket. I like him quite a bit as long as he is used appropriately.

This^

I do believe he has "better" defensive potential. But it's going to take time and work.

That said, if he can start scorching and maybe bang out a couple 30 games and some team wants to offer a quality big, count me in.

But I like him too.

Coby has never shown anything to suggest he'll ever be anything close to a good defender. I think becoming even an average defender is an extremely unlikely best-case scenario. His short arms, pedestrian athleticism, middling lateral quickness, and lacking defensive IQ just preclude that from being a realistic outcome, and most of those things can't be improved upon.

[GoBlue72391]

I have to disagree that he can drive and make plays near the basket. He may be the most blocked player in the NBA. He has no floater to speak of, and he is very poor at making contested layups. Now those are learnable skills, but that's something for the offseason.

Nope.

Shots blocked:

1. Zion Williamson 131x
2, Colin Sexton 97x
3. RJ Barrett 86X

15. Zach Lavine 67x

28. Coby White 59x

what about on a % of shots basis?

Percentage of FGA that were blocked last season
Zion: 12.6%
Sexton: 8.7%
Barrett: 8.1%
Coby: 6.5%

It would be nice if we could compare those numbers to the league average, but I have no idea what the league average is and no idea how to figure that number out. Based off the limited info we have, it would seem that Coby's blocked percentage is a bit on the higher end but not to an extremely worrying extent. I also agree that he's poor at making contested layups, but compared to Lonzo he's fantastic.

[GoBlue72391]

Last season I'm seeing he got 20% of his inside shots blocked, and Sexton 21%. These kids really need better floaters.

I only calculated their percentage of shots blocked via their total FGA, but wow, 20% of inside shots seems extremely high. That means 1 out of every 5 times he shoots a paint shot he's getting blocked. That seems like a ton to me.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

It's clear that they're going to keep increasing Coby's role regardless of performance. Maybe that pays dividends later in the season. Maybe not.

I just hope this isn't about trade value as some have speculated. Pumping Coby's value from, say, an early 2nd rounder to a late 1st doesn't justify entitlement minutes when he's playing this badly. Not for a team that's trying to win multiple playoff rounds.

I mean, that makes so little sense that I have to assume AKME knows better.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I have to disagree that he can drive and make plays near the basket. He may be the most blocked player in the NBA. He has no floater to speak of, and he is very poor at making contested layups. Now those are learnable skills, but that's something for the offseason.

Nope.

Shots blocked:

1. Zion Williamson 131x
2, Colin Sexton 97x
3. RJ Barrett 86X

15. Zach Lavine 67x

28. Coby White 59x

what about on a % of shots basis?

Percentage of FGA that were blocked last season
Zion: 12.6%
Sexton: 8.7%
Barrett: 8.1%
Coby: 6.5%

It would be nice if we could compare those numbers to the league average, but I have no idea what the league average is and no idea how to figure that number out. Based off the limited info we have, it would seem that Coby's blocked percentage is a bit on the higher end but not to an extremely worrying extent. I also agree that he's poor at making contested layups, but compared to Lonzo he's fantastic.

% of shots blocked at the rim would be the better indicator. Zion and RJ Barrett are in the paint way more than Coby is, so the overall blocked shot percentage is tilted against them. Not that you'd expect a guard like Coby to be as good of a finisher as Zion

[Red8911]

It's clear that they're going to keep increasing Coby's role regardless of performance. Maybe that pays dividends later in the season. Maybe not.

I just hope this isn't about trade value as some have speculated. Pumping Coby's value from, say, an early 2nd rounder to a late 1st doesn't justify entitlement minutes when he's playing this badly. Not for a team that's trying to win multiple playoff rounds.

I mean, that makes so little sense that I have to assume AKME knows better.

I see Coby as the first candidate to get traded in order to bring in that PF big the bulls desperately need. I don’t think they would trade him for a pick. Also If Ayo continues to prove himself off the bench then Coby won’t be staying here too long.

[MrSparkle]

Discuss the topic all we want, but Coby's a career double-digit scorer (13.7 PPG) despite some historically awful stretches, including this current 6-game season of his. More than Caruso, Lonzo, Ayo. As a point of concern, Coby's career is the same as Vuc's current season average (13.7).

The easy retort is "yeah but Coby had a green light." Sure, but on his 30% good nights, he made it rain with hands in his face.

Donovan's been doubted about every second of the way since the hiring. Seems the narrative won't go away. I see the risk playing Coby, but I personally get why he's re-integrating him. The pay-off is better than expecting Ayo to become a revelational shooter this spring. Also wouldn't have that much faith in Caruso and Lonzo shooting lights out in a playoff series. They may, they may not. They're steady shooters overall (when you count the averages) with occasional big nights, but their bread and butter is making plays. Coby's mean digits are terrible but he's got a solid number of huge games on a short 2-year resume.

I actually really like Donovan's approach here. Gamble a little bit on development in November. About 95% of the board was anti-Thibs by 2015, for the very reason that he treated the first month of the schedule like a playoff test, DNP'ing rookies and defensive sieves. Jimmer Fredette couldn't buy a second. Thibs would've had zero tolerance for this Coby. Donovan's letting him play into shape.

Different approach. If Coby actually finds his rhythm next month, he'll look like a genius. If not, what did we lose: hypothetically/arguably (cause of Coby's 10-15 minutes) a couple of games?

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

It's clear that they're going to keep increasing Coby's role regardless of performance. Maybe that pays dividends later in the season. Maybe not.

I just hope this isn't about trade value as some have speculated. Pumping Coby's value from, say, an early 2nd rounder to a late 1st doesn't justify entitlement minutes when he's playing this badly. Not for a team that's trying to win multiple playoff rounds.

I mean, that makes so little sense that I have to assume AKME knows better.

I see Coby as the first candidate to get traded in order to bring in that PF big the bulls desperately need. I don’t think they would trade him for a pick. Also If Ayo continues to prove himself off the bench then Coby won’t be staying here too long.

I think you’re right about the package the Bulls would seek, but I’m using 2nd rounder vs 1st rounder as a proxy for Coby’s value.

I don’t think pumping him for a trade is worth the bad minutes he’s playing. These minutes are probably hurting the cause, tbh.

[Wingy]

It's clear that they're going to keep increasing Coby's role regardless of performance. Maybe that pays dividends later in the season. Maybe not.

I just hope this isn't about trade value as some have speculated. Pumping Coby's value from, say, an early 2nd rounder to a late 1st doesn't justify entitlement minutes when he's playing this badly. Not for a team that's trying to win multiple playoff rounds.

I mean, that makes so little sense that I have to assume AKME knows better.

I see Coby as the first candidate to get traded in order to bring in that PF big the bulls desperately need. I don’t think they would trade him for a pick. Also If Ayo continues to prove himself off the bench then Coby won’t be staying here too long.

I think you’re right about the package the Bulls would seek, but I’m using 2nd rounder vs 1st rounder as a proxy for Coby’s value.

I don’t think pumping him for a trade is worth the bad minutes he’s playing. These minutes are probably hurting the cause, tbh.

One thing folks are missing is that only our org and our rabid fans (i.e. - people who log lots of time on a msg board) are obsessing over every single Coby minute. His bad early play doesn’t show up in the highlights. His 4th quarter 3s vs the Knicks do.

KD, arguably the best player in the game was impressed by the scoring potential of the Bulls 3 of Zach/Vuc/Coby for crying out loud.

Most folks only see the periphery. This board is the exception, not the rule. He’ll get better as time goes on, and can be a trade piece, or will contribute to the Bulls.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I see Coby as the first candidate to get traded in order to bring in that PF big the bulls desperately need. I don’t think they would trade him for a pick. Also If Ayo continues to prove himself off the bench then Coby won’t be staying here too long.

I think you’re right about the package the Bulls would seek, but I’m using 2nd rounder vs 1st rounder as a proxy for Coby’s value.

I don’t think pumping him for a trade is worth the bad minutes he’s playing. These minutes are probably hurting the cause, tbh.

One thing folks are missing is that only our org and our rabid fans (i.e. - people who log lots of time on a msg board) are obsessing over every single Coby minute. His bad early play doesn’t show up in the highlights. His 4th quarter 3s vs the Knicks do.

KD, arguably the best player in the game was impressed by the scoring potential of the Bulls 3 of Zach/Vuc/Coby for crying out loud.

Most folks only see the periphery. This board is the exception, not the rule. He’ll get better as time goes on, and can be a trade piece, or will contribute to the Bulls.

The periphery view doesn’t apply to other front offices. If a team is considering trading for Coby, they’re going to have people in their org scout every minute he plays.

[Wingy]

I think you’re right about the package the Bulls would seek, but I’m using 2nd rounder vs 1st rounder as a proxy for Coby’s value.

I don’t think pumping him for a trade is worth the bad minutes he’s playing. These minutes are probably hurting the cause, tbh.

One thing folks are missing is that only our org and our rabid fans (i.e. - people who log lots of time on a msg board) are obsessing over every single Coby minute. His bad early play doesn’t show up in the highlights. His 4th quarter 3s vs the Knicks do.

KD, arguably the best player in the game was impressed by the scoring potential of the Bulls 3 of Zach/Vuc/Coby for crying out loud.

Most folks only see the periphery. This board is the exception, not the rule. He’ll get better as time goes on, and can be a trade piece, or will contribute to the Bulls.

The periphery view doesn’t apply to other front offices. If a team is considering trading for Coby, they’re going to have people in their org scout every minute he plays.

Indeed. They will also consider the context (injury, new teammates, new role), and the two full seasons they saw before. They will also evaluate over the next 2.5 months, and are unlikely to make major pronouncements based on 93 minutes of play over six games with the aforementioned context in mind.

[Just_Bullz]

If Coby plays like this consistently, it really balances out the team effort.

Lonzo shoots his 3s and be the defensive duo with Alex.

Zach and DDR continue to do their thing but with less minutes.

Vuc to focus on rebounding and be a passing big while shooting the 3.

[PlayerUp]

If Coby plays like this consistently, it really balances out the team effort.

Read on Twitter

[PlayerUp]

I see Coby as the first candidate to get traded in order to bring in that PF big the bulls desperately need. I don’t think they would trade him for a pick. Also If Ayo continues to prove himself off the bench then Coby won’t be staying here too long.

Unless it's a longterm PF that is making less than $18m a season then no chance Bulls make a move here. They'll wait until deadline or pick someone off waivers. Patrick Williams should be back sometime later in the season as well.

[WindyCityBorn]

That flamethrower Coby is what we need. A guy off the bench that can drop 20 any night. Not interested in trading him for a mediocre PF.

[coldfish]

The big issues with Coby have been:
- Defense
- Shooting consistency
- Ball handling decisions

I'm seeing some positive signs on defense. As far as shooting consistency, this is what Coby looks like. Until he has a string of games where his TS% is consistently over 55, this is going to be a worry. I also haven't seen much to make a decision regarding his ball handling.

Hopefully last night was the start of a trend but Coby has followed up good nights with bad ones so often I'm certainly not going to jump on the bandwagon yet.

I will say this: If the Bulls get anything close to that Coby consistently their offense will be ridiculous.

[Michael Jackson]

The big issues with Coby have been:
- Defense
- Shooting consistency
- Ball handling decisions

I'm seeing some positive signs on defense. As far as shooting consistency, this is what Coby looks like. Until he has a string of games where his TS% is consistently over 55, this is going to be a worry. I also haven't seen much to make a decision regarding his ball handling.

Hopefully last night was the start of a trend but Coby has followed up good nights with bad ones so often I'm certainly not going to jump on the bandwagon yet.

I will say this: If the Bulls get anything close to that Coby consistently their offense will be ridiculous.

Yeah I have more patience than some with Coby, in that I think he needs some time to flesh out his role. Last night was a good example but as mentioned he is inconsistent

[Wingy]

The big issues with Coby have been:
- Defense
- Shooting consistency
- Ball handling decisions

I'm seeing some positive signs on defense. As far as shooting consistency, this is what Coby looks like. Until he has a string of games where his TS% is consistently over 55, this is going to be a worry. I also haven't seen much to make a decision regarding his ball handling.

Hopefully last night was the start of a trend but Coby has followed up good nights with bad ones so often I'm certainly not going to jump on the bandwagon yet.

I will say this: If the Bulls get anything close to that Coby consistently their offense will be ridiculous.

He obviously won’t shoot like last night all the time, but if he continues to incrementally build on last night’s defensive effort, we can still keep him on the floor as a perceived threat even on off nights.

For those worried about wins and losses due to Coby, I think last night’s “good Coby” gave us a much better chance to win tonight vs Miami. If he doesn’t show up like he did last night, we would’ve sadly been facing an early deficit, and likely would’ve needed to extend minutes for Zach/DD/Lonzo.

[coldfish]

The big issues with Coby have been:
- Defense
- Shooting consistency
- Ball handling decisions

I'm seeing some positive signs on defense. As far as shooting consistency, this is what Coby looks like. Until he has a string of games where his TS% is consistently over 55, this is going to be a worry. I also haven't seen much to make a decision regarding his ball handling.

Hopefully last night was the start of a trend but Coby has followed up good nights with bad ones so often I'm certainly not going to jump on the bandwagon yet.

I will say this: If the Bulls get anything close to that Coby consistently their offense will be ridiculous.

He obviously won’t shoot like last night all the time, but if he continues to incrementally build on last night’s defensive effort, we can still keep him on the floor as a perceived threat even on off nights.

For those worried about wins and losses due to Coby, I think last night’s “good Coby” gave us a much better chance to win tonight vs Miami. If he doesn’t show up like he did last night, we would’ve sadly been facing an early deficit, and likely would’ve needed to extend minutes for Zach/DD/Lonzo.

Just to be super clear: I would take last night's version of Coby, or even a lesser facsimile, every day of the week. Having a 3rd perimeter scorer who can create his own shot would make the Bulls offense absurd and if he plays defense well, not give up much on that end.

I just don't think that a guy who goes 9/10 one night and 1/10 the next night is super helpful for a team trying to win a lot more than 50 games. Those 1/10 nights are team killers.

[dougthonus]

Just to be super clear: I would take last night's version of Coby, or even a lesser facsimile, every day of the week. Having a 3rd perimeter scorer who can create his own shot would make the Bulls offense absurd and if he plays defense well, not give up much on that end.

I just don't think that a guy who goes 9/10 one night and 1/10 the next night is super helpful for a team trying to win a lot more than 50 games. Those 1/10 nights are team killers.

Coby obviously needs to find consistency, and I'm not some huge Coby believer by any stretch, but I'm willing to give him 10 games to see if he can do it before forming too much of an opinion on him.

He defended well last night too which was nice to see. That said, I think the Magic, especially without Anthony, are not a hard team to defend.